Is Belief in God Hurting America?

[marmar]

via AlterNet:



Is Belief in God Hurting America?

By David Villano, Miller-McCune.com. Posted November 25, 2009.

According to a new study, prosperity is highest in countries that practice religion the least.




From Dostoyevsky to right-wing commentator Ann Coulter we are warned of the perils of godlessness. "If there is no God," Dostoyevsky wrote, "everything is permitted." Coulter routinely attributes our nation's most intractable troubles to the moral vacuum of atheism.

But a growing body of research in what one sociologist describes as the "emerging field of secularity" is challenging long-held assumptions about the relationship of religion and effective governance.

In a paper posted recently on the online journal Evolutionary Psychology, independent researcher Gregory S. Paul reports a strong correlation within First World democracies between socioeconomic well-being and secularity. In short, prosperity is highest in societies where religion is practiced least.

Using existing data, Paul combined 25 indicators of societal and economic stability — things like crime, suicide, drug use, incarceration, unemployment, income, abortion and public corruption — to score each country using what he calls the "successful societies scale." He also scored countries on their degree of religiosity, as determined by such measures as church attendance, belief in a creator deity and acceptance of Bible literalism.

Comparing the two scores, he found, with little exception, that the least religious countries enjoyed the most prosperity. Of particular note, the U.S. holds the distinction of most religious and least prosperous among the 17 countries included in the study, ranking last in 14 of the 25 socioeconomic measures. .........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/belief/144174/is_belief_in_god_hurting_america

[Buzz Clik]

1. We should be in great shape. This country isn't real big into religious practice.

Our politicians talk a lot about it, but none of them follow religious teachings.

[Walk away]

9. Are you kidding? I have recently met several people base their...

entire political and social construct on their religion's teachings. They are filled with hate for just about everyone but their christian friends. Their hate for other religions is rabid. Jews and Muslims are constantly vilified These Christians affiliate with various churches and would be happy to vote for anyone who promised to kill as many Muslims as possible.

[Syntheto]

50. Whoops, anti-Christian bullshit detector just went off...

...Jews and Muslims are just as bad. Once again, let's remember that there is NO FUCKING GOD OR SPIRIT THAT RUNS THINGS BEHIND THE SCENES... Jesus of Nazereth was a carpenter and reformist rabbi who would have been stunned to discover what Paul and Constantine had done with his message; Mohammed was a rug merchant who claimed to be god's voice and therefore should have the authority of god. BULLSHIT! ALL OF IT BULLSHIT. What you really show here is your disgust of the WalMart redneck (White, therefore) Americans who are into that sort of goofy-ass Christian belief system, so why not call a spade a shovel? Or are you proclaiming the superiority of another religion over Christianity, when they're all scams? Go ahead, I want to read what sort of bullshit you come up with.

[unblock]

14. so we're big on religions where faith and dogma and donations count more than attendance

and our politicians are lying cynical bastards, what else is new?
of course, they talk a lot about religion BECAUSE the country is big on religion.

compared to europe, we're extremely religious.

[Buzz Clik]

16. Nah. The voting population is under the impression that religious people have high moral standards.

They'd know that isn't true if they actually attended church themselves.

Some people in this country are very religious. Some are total atheists. About 80% of the population falls in between.

[dbmk]

21. The study says otherwise?

They didn't just decide on the numbers.

[Stumbler]

41. Bingo.

Most of the American voting populace view themselves as 1) religious, and 2) as having high moral standards. Due to the fact that many of them were taught that having religion leads directly towards 'having high moral standards,' they easily fall into the misconception that anyone with "religion" will 'have high moral standards.' This is simply not true. As Dawkins points out, anyone who gains their morality based on lessons from the Bible (in particular, as I'm discussing the U.S) should rightly be feared more than revered.

Unfortunately this doesn't happen. Much like the "pro-life" debaters, who favor war & capital punishment & polluting in ecologically sensitive areas & hunting wildlife game from motorized vehicles, the "religion = having moral standards"-crowd routinely ignores the very tenants of their faith that fail to fit in with their personal interpretation.

It's time for the "believers" to learn that their god(s) were created by man to explain away the astronomical, meteorological, geological, and psychological conditions of life itself. Only with Science couple with Mathematics are We able to explain the true causes of meteor showers, eclipses, hurricanes, earthquakes, as well as the root causes for lies, deception, greed, etc.

[opihimoimoi]

2. The price/penalty of Fantasy is.......Poverty....

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. faith based economics didn't work well in the Dark Ages, either.

Except there, religious bigots like Crisp, Dollar, Falwell, Da Little Graham (Funky Franklin), would be in prison, if not dead, because their slightly unorthodox methods of becoming millionaires would result in their arrest, trial, and death.

Look at Germany. Strong labor laws. Strong employment protections. And their unemployment rate is 1/3 of ours. And they believe. IN FAIR WORK RULES, not exporting jobs to China or India.

[Tsar_Bomba]

4. Yes it is

It's about time someone pointed that out.

[Christa]

6. Indeed it is

Religion is poisonous.

[handmade34]

5. history tells us so

[rurallib]

10. over and over and over and over.............

[patrice]

7. I'm not sure Americans believe in "God". They believe in what THEY THINK is "God".

[elehhhhna]

8. No. The misplaced belief in "men of god" is hurting America.

[BennyD]

28. great point. n/t

[Dogtown]

11. K&R

The wasted time alone is enough to drive our country into poverty. Would that the Sunday morning fervor was directed into something constructive....

[Mopar151]

26. A little renewal of the spirit don't hurt a thing

It's those steamin' helpin's of hate and hellfire that cause the problems.

[Ready4Change]

12. Use of OTHER peoples belief in God is hurting America.

There are groups that wrap themselves in other peoples belief, then use that belief to get those people to serve their purposes.

[flow_urgirl]

13. Without faith we crumble

I know this as I had lived without a strong sense of faith and religious action for a long time, truly. Even though I was wiccan and pagan. And taoist, and Asatru. I still like the NNV though even though I don't agree with the gythi being on dope and there for a sense of the others in the group to follow suit. Money doesn't hold you together like religious practice and belief does.

Money gathered most in the sense of the countries with the least religious followers or practitioners in a census, I guess the data is from that, is what has made life miserable for the earth dwellers who were once farmers and strong in some type of worship and intricate belief system. The earth dwellers worldwide who follow the latest trends in work and career vocation.

The ruin of the earth and the fabric of the people disturbs me. Money disturbs me and is clear from the statement here that what most people know and say in some form or another that money is the root of all evil. Money destroys the roots and good intentions of life on the earth set down so humbly for us by the people who wore hessian sacks did not go through trauma stages to have nose jobs for foolish appearance, wear gallons of makeup and pick away at people by troubling them with their own insecurities, I hear it clear as bells resonance in a church.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. Why am I NOT crumbling, then?

[emilyg]

36. Give yourself time.

[flow_urgirl]

45. Do I know you?

What the hell are these three second answers? I am doing what for you? Nothing but expressing my mind at a late hour as I am comfortable or fairly with a Turramurra accent...with a life, don't have time to explain and another thing I know w woman the same age as me who i have to read a few times to understand as well. We are like that as ourselves to expect me to mold myself to you is really quite boring. And the only time I would be getting is time for murder in a riot against the controlling people who attempt to bash the more peaceful protestors..I would die protecting another in any circumstance I would die like the Peace Activist who was an Aries Goat, a Lu, a female artist writer and health food eater who had a potter for a mother and she got bulldozed to death for trying to save a persons family and home!! and looking through her work you can see several times that she was psychic and muinic about it, she knew it had a prescience about it..so what time should i give to myself when i am alone all the fucking time just about for the last decade a t least. i'm 31, a day after my 31st birthday i broke my arm being photographed on a wet waterfall rock. thats been over a month now and I have a pin in the bone with a healing homeopathic cream on it to avoid the stretching and tearing of the skin and i have my life. I give myself time. and i know.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. I'm curious. What do you think is in store for me, that wouldn't if I had this "faith" thing? -nt

[flow_urgirl]

43. Motorhead song too

And I quite like Garfield sometimes being an artist, graphic designer and aspiring animator!! thanks!! why would it be you in the first place anyway why take to heart what i have said as you or your religious nonentity?

[Chef Eric]

23. How nice that you are able to speak for all human beings. nt

[flow_urgirl]

44. Que?!!

I am not assuming to be speaking for others, was that the set essay requirement here or what?!! I talk about myself and my experiences to be human not to be a report presuming it has gathered religious information from every corner of the globe and every single person including the nomadic tribes people who have never probably believed in God as a Christian importatation of a belief system seeing as you have included the phrase -all human beings-.

[dbmk]

24. Then why is it..

..that there tend to be less economic disparity in the countries with less religiosity?

[Skittles]

39. absolute fucking bullshit

[Enthusiast]

15. It's not so much the belief in God

that is hurting America as the ignorance and intolerance of many believers.

Think about it, millions of Americans believed every lie George W Bush told them because he had convinced them he was a man of God. Even after his actions said otherwise they continued to believe him, voting for him twice. It appears these "believers" could be hoodwinked by any old charlatan that came along.

[Berry Cool]

17. I guess what all the anti-religionists are telling us is that we should scrap the First Amendment

and ban religion from this country.

Sheesh. If so, you are just as intolerant as the fundies you criticize.

[Tsar_Bomba]

20. No just an adjustment and tax it like a dangerous drug

It's not that I'm intolerant, it's that religious people are addicts.

[Dogtown]

30. Nicely put, TB

They do display many of the symptoms of addiction.

[Overseas]

32. Nope. Sorry pal. The militant Christians want to do that.

They don't want freedom of religion. They want "Jesus Plus Nothing," in case you haven't heard.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

They want Christian Dogma to be taught in science class.

They don't want a separation of church and state. They want a theocracy, ruled with the Christian equivalent of Sharia law.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. Strawiest straw man EVAH. -nt

[keith the dem]

18. Couldn't you also make a correlation between

The demise of mainline churches and the rise of Mega-churches and TV right wing preachers with the USA losing it's standing with innovation and prosperity.

The mainline churches have always been behind the social justice movement, from abolishing slavery to social welfare to civil rights. Even today the UCC church (think Pilgrims) and the UU church is behind the gay right movement.

But all those mainline churches are hurting Religion in the USA has been hijacked by crazy "supply-side Jesus" types, much like the hijacking of the party of Lincoln.

[Mopar151]

27. Can I hear an "Amen" brotha?

'Cuz it parallels my experience, for sure.

[mopinko]

42. except that the article isn't about america.

it is a cross cultural study.

[dbmk]

22. And..

..if you take a look in the paper, there is more damning stuff in there:
http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP07398441_c.pdf

Such as the abortion rates being lower in the less religious societies - at factor of 2 to 1 compared to the US in some cases. And fewer teenage pregnancies. And you could keep going.

The first part of the conclusion is harshly written:
"From a research perspective it is fortunate that a socioeconomically dysfunctional and unusually religious developed nation like the U.S. exists; if one did not then it would probably be incorrectly concluded that a simple rise in prosperity to 1st world standards results in steep declines in mass religiosity in favor of secular modernity -- the actual situation is more subtle. It is also scientifically fortuitous that the U.S. is an anomalous outlier not only in its elevated religiosity, but in its elevated socioeconomic defects. If religious America were no more dysfunctional than the more secular prosperous democracies, then a viable explanation for the divergence in popular faith and nonfaith would be difficult to discern."

[izzybeans]

25. The belief in an invisible market god is hurting us more.

The flying spaghetti monster is gonna make it all go away. All we need to do is put in place "proper incentives". He likes to swoop up and down, that spaghetti monster, but nonetheless he's always right and moral, regardless of the destruction he leaves in his wake.

[BennyD]

29. If my conscience would just leave me alone, I would steal my neighbor's car.

He's too old to stop me and I could sell it for a lot of cash, but my conscience just won't let me do it. I wonder, what purpose did evolution have in developing a conscience? Why do I need a sense of morality?? It makes me feel....well...guilty. If I feel guilty, then I must have done something....wrong? What place does "right and wrong" have in a species that came about by pure chance and not a God who "created" the creation? Why would evolution play such a cruel trick on us? Why is there a need for a conscience in the human race? Isn't it a barrier to growing stronger?

If I want what you have, why can't I just take it and feel good about it? After all, if I have the power and ability to take it from you, and choose to exercise that power, then I am only doing what nature gave me through evolution. What's "wrong" with that????

[Dogtown]

31. You took a left, BennyD

instead of the right turn you intended. You're lost.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. Because many species (not just humans) cooperate with their fellow creatures

of the same species. Cooperation, and a sense of right and wrong, isn't a 'cruel trick'. It's a way for sophisticated animals to live better lives.

If you have some expectation of being treated fairly in the future by another member of your species, or by another who knows them and the way you treat them, it's better for you to cooperate. For normal humans, and for other species that have complicated behaviour such as chimpanzees, it's only when the other beings are complete strangers that you have no idea whether you can trust, and that you think there's little chance of interacting with them again, that people start to behave without consideration for the other people - feuds, wars and so on.

[BobTheSubgenius]

40. Conscience is not innate - it's taught to us.

The younger the child, the more it acts on pure instinct. "I see. I want. I HAVE." If it could, a baby would strangle you for a cookie.

This behavior is (hopefully) modified over time by teaching children values.

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. Even if something isn't apparent at birth, it can still be 'innate'

Babies don't have sexual desire, for instance, but it will develop, without any teaching, as a human matures. Similarly, conscience can be something that we have without teaching, but which only shows with an increased understanding of the world (which, itself, needn't be taught - though teaching will undoubtedly help the understanding).

On edit: tried to tidy up the post title, since I think I got the number of negatives wrong. :dunce:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

48. This is the correct answer. -nt

[Firstzar]

33. No.....

...belief that God is always on your side and wants you personally to run for office is hurting America!

[santamargarita]

35. The Goddamn Christian Fascists are hurting the Country!

:puke:

[Saboburns]

37. "God told me to attack, so I attacked" George W Bush

No further comment needed

[Skittles]

38. it hurts the entire freaking world