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InformedSource Donating Member (300 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:19 PM
Original message
An explanation why 57% believe in Bush that makes sense
"Why would so many Americans cling to patently false beliefs? ... I would suggest ... the two-party system in the US... If it were accepted that Saddam had virtually nothing to do with al-Qaeda, that he had no weapons of mass destruction (nor any significant programs for producing them), and that no evidence for such things has been uncovered after the US and its allies have had a year to comb through Baath documents – if all that is accepted, then President Bush's credibility would suffer. For his partisans, it is absolutely crucial that the president retain his credibility. Therefore, rather than face reality, they re-jigger it to create a fantasy world in which Saddam and Usamah are buddies."

http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=2384
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's not the people. It's the polls that are full of shit. nt
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. They rallied around Nixon almost 'til the end, too.
These BushCo freaks are rehashed Nixon admin staffers... almost every single one of them.
Republicans who loved Nixon also love Bush*. It's that simple.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes, national scientific polls that are conducted by telephone...
Edited on Mon Apr-26-04 12:30 PM by whistle
...are just not accurate statistical indicators. They poll between 1,000 and 1,200 people, tolerate error margins of +/- 3.0 percentage points (which is 6.0 points variation) and are usually based on highly ambiguous closed ended questions that fail to probe and clarify answers. I feel much more confident in the on-line surveys that invite people to participate and attract large numbers of respondents, even with all the disclaimers I can accept results based on very large numbers of responses than I ever can from a national telephone poll that is probably out-sourced overseas.:headbang:
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The problem with online polls...
...is that they are often freeped or DU'd.
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. This is true.
Nixon won re-election in a landslide. The American people did not start to turn against the Vietnam War until after 1972. The Kent State shootings occurred in 1970. A few years ago I saw an interview with the mother of one of the slain students who told of the hundreds of pieces of hate mail she received after her daughter was killed. Americans are slow on the uptake. I only pray the figure it out before November.
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Bowfin Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. Explanation
Two factors. The media produce the group mind. There is not enough repetition of the truth in the media that WMD are not there, that Terrorism and Iraq were not and are not linked, that these were lies, that the real reasons are greed, power, and domination, and that the action is essentially evil, makes us hated by the world community, and costs thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

The second factor is Denial. People will not believe that our govt could be so corrupt, for all the classic reasons that Denial is an automatic defense mechanism.

The only solution is to keep repeating the truth, help them accept it, and give people a way out. Explain how we can change course to put America back on the side of people, not multinationals. Assure the world we will no longer support dictatorial regimes for the good of corporations at the cost of human freedom. When we stop being exploiters we will enjoy community with the rest of the world, and we will stop being targets. Peace will come when the problem is correctly seen, not by redoubling the efforts that created the war in the first place.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Hi Bowfin!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'd been baffled for quite some time by
Edited on Mon Apr-26-04 12:58 PM by stellanoir
the droves of Bush loyalists and apologists. How could anyone not see that in a mere 3 & 1/2 years, he's trashed our economy, environment, and credibility whilst inspiring more anti-american sentiment than ever before. . .which invariably will incite more terrorism. . .then it hit me. . .

In as much as I feel largely ambivilant towards a lot of "trash can psychological diagnosises'" I truly believe it is possible that roughly half of the folks in this country are suffering from Stockholm syndrome- a pattern where folks are lulled into a sense of false security by their captors.

If you don't think it's possible then remember Elizabeth Smart's denials to police when she was initially questioned. She denied her identity and protected the couple who had abducted and abused her.

It's the only thing that even remotely begins to explain why anyone would even consider granting * another term.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The exposure ironically
comes from what the Right wing did to break the soft distractions of national self delusion. Through noise, lies and strong gut appeals they defined or redefined the public mind whether the public was there or not. Gradually they bent the media to their own version. Too bad it was a bigger lie, but it did show that the obstinate madness could be pushed- to make it infinitely worse and more exploitable.

The media once thought itself heroic("liberal") by getting late on the anti-war, investigative bandwagon. That was when they not only had the truth on their side but a fairer system controlled by Democrats- albeit democrats who had gotten us farther in the Vietnam mess in the first place. The problem was not the "two party system" but the two party complicity in the worst of the delusions and exploitations.

The problem was and is that total truth has won no victories. We are lucky it shows up at the party and spoils the fantasies and restores some crippled normalcy back to the befuddled masses.

It needs the decent and rigorous equivalency of ruthless shouting and energetic lying. It needs constant and probing light and souls of adamant. It needs to purify public discourse and start excluding proven liars and fantasy hate specialists. It needs to make more demands of politicians the same way.

To counteract the sour "spoiler" negativity image they need to surrender some of the inconsequential ambulance chasing(if it bleeds it leads unless the WH says no) and sensationalism and build up stories of humanity at its best and most progressive- Charles Kuralt in the trenches of human survival and development. If it wants to wearily go with the stories of criminality and human failure it should not discourage people who are not that minority sludge of humanity.

Worthless advice, but it gives perspective on our present dumb situation.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. good answer--goes along with the fact that Bush has not come forward
to tell the American people, loudly, clearly, and honestly that A) there were no WMDs in Iraq after 1996. and B) Saddam hated Bin Laden so much (and vice versa) that the idea of a partnership of anykind between those two is absurd.

Until he does that the 57% will all be whining that Their President hasn't told them what to think since he told them Saddam was a bad man who would nuke them in their beds in Nebraska.
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. "There is no length to which man will not go
to avoid the true labor of thinking"
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Cognitive Dissonance is very, very powerful.
If a new belief threatens an old belief, cognitive dissonance will force you to discard one, or compartmentalize it. The stress of holding the two in conscious awareness is just too awful.

That's part of why those who love * because "he's a regular guy" can't be won over with facts and information that threaten their belief.
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Geo55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Cognitive....


Sadly , this rings true....not mention he gets to "play" the couragous WAR GUY that they envy.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Decades of successful fascist brainwashing paying off handsomely.
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 12:55 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
(From my own rant archives after studying history for years)

Around 50% still think Bush* is trustworthy! Given that everything he's said publicly for years has been a lie, why is this?

Unfortunately, Americans have been subjected to scientifically applied propaganda by an alliance of corporate-dominated government agencies and corporate-dominated media outlets, especially TV, to successfully hijack control of the biggest arsenal on the planet, the US government. .

Religion is the deepest imbedded cultural system that promotes rejecting logic for irrational emotion. Television is a close second for filling the collective American mind with manipulative fearmongering. Combined, they are a 24/7 Nuremberg rally of adrenalin and endorphins, a daily drip of red-white-and-blue indoctri-Nation-alism.

This isn't just leftist rhetoric. It is real science developed by behavioral scientists, neurologists, sociologists, linguists, and historians.

And the diagnosis for conservative America is an ‘Authoritarian Personality’ which is a precursor to a pathological behavior called FASCISM.

After WWII, psychologists turned their studies to figuring out what personality traits led to large populations accepting the inhumane fascism of Franco, Mussolini, and Hitler. What they discovered was something they termed 'The Authoritarian Personality' which, in a nutshell, is fearful and prone to seeking security through pack identity (virulent nationalism), attacking other identity groups (like Jews, blacks, gypsys, gays, Muslims, etc.), and revering cruel dictators (the strong father as Fuhrer).

All that ugly behavior results from intentionally exaggerating people's fears in order to inflame a part of the brain called the amygdala that is vigilant against possible threats. Millions of years ago, the amygdala was the most important part of our brain that kept us from getting eaten by other animals. We have since evolved more sophisticated brain systems that allows us to be social and rationally discern who wants to harm us and who just wants to have the next dance. The amygdala responds quickly without using the rational left-brain thought process that people such as 'liberal elitists' might use to think for themselves instead of blindly accepting the things they are told by authority figures and the media. Since vision has been the most important tool for identifying friend from foe, television has been a brainwasher's dream tool for instilling propaganda into the American psyche.

Consequently, Americans have been raised to erroneously believe that they:
1) live in a democracy where their government represents them.
2) compete in free markets.
3) share equal opportunity for all.
4) see their government spreading democracy and protecting the innocent around the world.
5) inherited the status of Best in Show Among Humans in 1776, 1945, 1991 and 2003 by winning the Revolutionary War, WWII, and both Iraq Wars I and II. (Korea is forgotten and Vietnam is used for blaming.)

These are all lies taught to American children in school and then reinforced every day in movies and on TV for the rest of their lives. There is a well defined historical narrative that describes America as the strongest and most virtuous moral force in the world ever. So surely the President of these United States must embody all that is good about our country.

I call this Superman-Jesus-in-a-Cowboy-Hat Syndrome. Ronald Reagan fit this movie-role-as-national-identity perfectly for many Americans who didn't realize that he was a senile figurehead for a cabal of murderers who successfully portrayed the poor as lazy thieves and secretly armed terrorists against foreign governments in the name of Christian compassion and democracy.

Here is how Americans have been led down the path to a Master Race group-think that accepts as both inevitable and just that domestic policy should be eugenics and foreign policy, imperialism:

Ever since the US lost the Vietnam War, the social atmosphere here has been very similar to post-WWI Germany. The hyper-nationalist German people were told in the summer of 1918 that they were winning World War I. But in the fall, they were suddenly informed that they had lost. They were stunned and angry as the victorious Allies raped them economically and their orderly society imploded into chaos. They looked around to find who among them had betrayed them and robbed them of their much-deserved victory over their inferiors. They demonized, assaulted, and killed Jews, labor unionists, socialists, Gypsys, and homosexuals.

The same scapegoating atmosphere bloomed in the US after Nixon was disgraced and the Vietnam War was revealed to be a quagmire of atrocities which had also ruined the economy. The Republicans have cleverly exploited this petulant atmosphere of entitlement denied to bring us to where we are today, mired in a culture war against liberals, feminists, blacks, homosexuals, and dangerous Middle Eastern foreigners, pretty much the same targets as the Nazis.

Ever wonder why 'liberal' became a swear word? Now you know. It is the American power structure’s synonym for ‘Jew.’

In fact, there is a name for this late 20th century fascist movement brought into the early 21st century:
Dominionism.

Dominionism is an alliance between Christian fundamentalists, Cold Warrior Fascists, and the Military Industrial Oil Complex, just like the rise of the German Nazis who, by remarkable coincidence, were also financed and supplied in their day by many US corporations, including George W. Bush's financier grandfather, Prescott Bush.

A coup against president Franklin Delano Roosevelt was organized by some of the largest US corporations in 1934 to prevent his New Deal from tempering capitalism and warding off mass poverty and starvation. The coup was prevented at the last minute by General Smedley Butler who played along with the plot when he was asked to help until blowing the whistle on those enemies of the Constitution. The Senate held a brief and embarassing investigation into their own financial backers and then quietly buried the matter. After years of ever more influence and control of the US government, the drug, oil, and weapons industries finally succeeded in the coup of 2000 with the court appointment of the general election's loser, George W. Bush.

It all rather makes sense, doesn't it? Military and financial powers work hand in hand to reinforce and protect each other by keeping people starving and fighting each other over worthless things like flags and uniforms. Meanwhile, the powerful swell up like ticks on the blood of the people they fool into doing the fighting and reward them with not much more than parades, ribbons, plaques, and brass bands.

Because this is the key to understanding politics-
Power protects power and gives not a whit for morality. Hence the pathological amorality of corporations. And nation states behave as corporations, not as the sum total of the words to their national anthems.

Power has a vested interest in keeping people divided, fearful, and ignorant using all those -isms we've become wary of.

Some Americans see through this and have evolved past nationalism and racism but lately it seems that a majority have not. And there is an alliance of media corporateers and fascist politicians who are determined to prevent Americans from finding out how this scam works. If you have figured out anything about life in America, consider sharing it with your fellow Americans so we can all evolve a little faster.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I think you are right
The republicans that I know live very fearful lives and watch a lot of tv. I don't think it's a coincidence.
What is amazing are the others who manage to see through the programming. When you consider how much money and time they've poured into the brainwashing their return isn't that impressive.
I'm cautiously hopeful.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Consider the Bush doctrine subtext provided by GOP media operatives
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 03:53 PM by jokerman2004
When we have Coulter speaking to the white supremicists; Rush and Savage bellowing to the "guns and trucks" culture, and LaHay, Sun Myung Moon, and every Dominionist preacher from sea to shining sea delivering the Gospel of apocalypse and rapture, Bush need do nothing more than hold his line, never cop to anything, and hope he doesn't get caught.

It's the memes generated by the above mentioned propagandists that openly supply the "subtext" and rationale required to give legitimacy to the crimes of this administration.

We have a religio-political cult in this country now and it's called the Republican Party. This is why so many Bush lovers accept what's going on. Their prejudice and ignorance is being flattered by GOP and PNAC operatives almost constantly. They see the vision of Bush's America as the manifest destiny of the world: The way things were meant to be.

It's dark out there in America these days, and getting very late.

on edit: spelling

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Sivafae Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. I cant help but think of the Beatles here. living is easy with eyes closed

But knowing some of the people that I know, I think that there is a good hearted American out there. They tend to have conservative views of morality, but they are also conscious. They must be so confused, they don't whether to wind their a** or scratch their watch. And if that be the case, then we'd better finish what we started. I am not sure that this truly a picture of what we are thinking. In an either/or situation, they may go with "I believe George" even though they are only 55-65% sure of what they believe.
I don't underestimate the intelligence of people, nor do I underestimate the stupidity.
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