Confederate Memorial Day flags removed from graves by Auburn Alabama city councilman

[BirminghamExaminer]

Excerpt:

Auburn Councilman Arthur L. Dowdell noticed the confederate flags in the Pine Hill cemetery on his way to pick his daughter up from school. He drove to the cemetery and pulled flags from the graves of long buried Confederate soldiers.

The United Daughters of the Confederacy placed the flags earlier last week for the celebration of Confederate Memorial Day just as they have for the last 50 years.

Dowdell said, "It's offensive to me. To me, it represents the Ku Klux Klan and racism."

Read the entire article here. There are two sides to this story and the issue isn't an easy one. Some people see the confederate flag as part of history, their ancestors fought under the flag, etc., while others have a legitimate complaint that it represents slavery and oppression. Is there any flag that isn't oppressive to someone?

[BeGoodDoGood]

1. Whatever it meant 135 years ago....

The neo-confederates use it for nothing but treason.

Walt

[MineralMan]

2. Well, marking Confederate soldiers' graves is

just about the only reason I can see to display those flags. I can't really object to that use. The more common uses for the flag, however, have more to do with pretty ugly sentiments. The grave marking, though, seems a reasonable historical use.

[jaysunb]

3. I wonder do the Germans mark their WWll soldiers

graves w/ swastikas :shrug:

[chimpymustgo]

5. You got it.

[northzax]

8. no, actually

because no one fetishizes their war dead like Americans, you just don't see it. And it's even crazier to be fetishizing the dead who took up arms against their fellow citizens to defend their right to own other humans. that's what they died for. let's not forget that.

Shall we go put a flag on the grave of Tim McVeigh? he too was killed after taking up arms against his government in pursuit of a futile cause. what's the difference between him and confederate soldiers, again? Heck, what's the difference between Robert E. Lee and Osama bin Laden? Bin Laden wasn't a traitor.

[MineralMan]

13. I have no idea.

Lots of people in the South have great-grandfathers and the like who were in the Confederate army. Yes, they were fighting an essentially illegal war, but they were in a war. Most of them probably had no clear idea about what they were fighting for. They fought under the Confederate flag, so I can understand why their relatives would wish to commemorate their service with that flag.

As far as its being used as a symbol of a treasonous war, I dislike that as much as anyone. I cannot, however, fault people for putting that flag on a relative's grave.

I leave Germans to decide for themselves what they do. I do not live there.

[northzax]

6. hey, I am fine with them being permanently marked

if you died taking up arms against your government to defend the right to own people, well then fly the flag with pride.

Confederate soldiers were traitors, do not forget that.

[Rebubula]

12. Minor correction

Though it is very simplistic to make the Civil War just about slavery - I will let that one pass.

However, most of the Confederate Army was made up of ignorant, non-educated conscripts with no idea of why they were fighting. You would also be able to say the same of most Union Soldiers as well.

To call a rank and file soldier a traitor is wrong. Many were just fighting because they had no other choice. Fight or die is the game when war comes to your backyard.

Now...if you want to talk about the Generals and other officers...I would bet that we would see eye to eye there.

[northzax]

15. oh, so they were just following orders.

got it.

and anyone who was, in fact, forced to take up arms against his own country should not be dishonored by having the flag of the traitors who forced him to be a traitor flying over his grave. would you force a child soldier, no matter how brave, to rest in peace under the flag of the warlord who forced him into military bondage?

[TankLV]

17. No, it really is QUITE SIMPLE: THE CIVIL WAR WAS ABOUT SLAVERY. PERIOD.

To believe otherwise shows your fucking WILLFULL IGNORANCE...

[yellowcanine]

18. To say the Civil War was not mostly about slavery is Southern revisionism.

The immediate cause of the Civil War was secession. Secession was a direct consequence of a disagreement over slavery between the North and the South. One followed the other, so to say that the Civil War was really about state's rights when the main state's rights issue was slavery is revisionism.

[Rebubula]

19. I agree....

...it was mostly about slavery. No doubt. But to say that slavery was the only cause is incorrect.

That there were other factors does make it any less of a horrible war that, thankfully, the North won.

[BirminghamExaminer]

16. That's b.s.

By your logic, if we hadn't won the Revolutionary war, all the people who fought for an independent America would be "traitors" and the American flag would be just as ridiculous as the Confederate flag.

Nothing makes me cringe more than seeing some yokel redneck proudly displaying a confederate flag but your cavalierly dismissing all who fought in the Civil war that were in the confederate army is just the sort of attitude that renews rebellious feelings. Congratulations.

[northzax]

20. um, yeah, that's kind of the definition

hey, you know what the difference between a traitor and a revolutionary hero is? winning.

if you take up arms against your government and you win, you become a hero. if you take up arms against your government and lose, you hang.

the confederate battle flag represents an attempt to destroy the United States by means of force of arms. it represents Americans who were willing to kill other Americans for the landed class' rights to own people. They were rebels, traitors and terrorists, by very definition. Sorry if it stirs 'rebellious feelings' in you to be reminded that your great-grandaddy was a traitor, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

[Papagoose]

4. I generally don't like the confederate flag on display

because I generally don't like the kind of people who display it.

The one place that I do not find it offensive is in it's proper place - such as a Confederate cemetery. There is one close to my home and I don't have any problem with it. I do have a problem with my ignorant redneck neighbors who have it plastered all over their trucks and flying in their front yard - narry a US flag to be seen on their property.

[Ian David]

7. It's offensive to me, too, but it's not HIS property, nor HIS graves.

http://www.cafepress.com/southdiversity

[BirminghamExaminer]

9. I always find flag discussions fascinating

I know people in Northern Ireland who feel the same way about the British flag that most of us feel about the confederate flag.

Someone here said that nobody "fetishes" the dead the way we do here in the U.S. and I have to disagree with that. What about the people who practice shintoism who worship their ancestors with daily ritual and other religions that offer food to their dead. The list is long. We're not alone. It's a human fetish, very human, and not at ALL relegated to the United States. In fact, we're low on the list of people who venerate the dead.

[struggle4progress]

10. The original 26 April date was chosen to commemorate Johnston's surrender to Sherman

at the Bennett farmhouse. Nearly sixty years later, in 1923, a memorial was erected at the site: two thin columns bridged by a slab bearing the single word Unity

http://upload.wikimedia.org.nyud.net:8090/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Bennett_Place.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bennett_Place.jpg&usg=__VYIqdl5cckv_X7NZJGGqp97AJLY=&h=600&w=750&sz=100&hl=en&start=20&tbnid=U4fuDdWM16S-sM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbennett%2Bplace%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1%26newwindow%3D1&um=1

http://img.groundspeak.com.nyud.net:8090/waymarking/display/db5f7569-668c-4c2e-b5fe-c1c07ed3b30a.jpg
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMC21

http://img.groundspeak.com.nyud.net:8090/waymarking/828e37ef-2c1e-4d8d-b3a3-ef5f8265a4b4.jpg
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMC11

[Politicalboi]

11. It's not for him to decide

Think about the soldiers in Iraq. Do they really know why they are there? WMD's, Freedom, 9/11. Do we really know that the Confederate soldiers knew exactly what they were fighting for? I bet a lot of them couldn't even read.

[BirminghamExaminer]

14. The vast majority of confederate soldiers (& Union for that matter)

were young, ignorant and poor. And yes, like many young men who go to war, they have no idea what they're doing and most especially what the reality is. These kids were fighting other family members about half the time and what did they get out of it? Starvation, disease, disillusionment and death. Save your anger for the politicians and the military leaders.

I'm reminded of my father-in-law who used to go and put confederate flags on the graves of confederate soldiers in a local cemetery in Pennsylvania...boys who died without anyone knowing who they were or where they were from. He did that to honor them just as he put American flags on the graves of union soldiers.

[MasonJar]

21. Since the United Daughters of the Confederacy placed these flags

on the graves of soldiers who died 150 years ago, I personally do NOT see any reason to disturb their tribute. We did not live in that era and many people in the War Between the States fought and died for their beliefs and their allegiances. Who is to say that these men did something wrong? I know that Robert E. Lee did not want the war, but he said that if Virginia seceeded , he would have to join her. Our country at that time was only 70 years old; the North and the South were incompatible in many ways. Who is to say today that many of the atrocities that our country has perpetrated might have been avoided if we had split and never become an empire and a world power. I am thinking of Nicaragua, Vietnam, Iraq and many other locales of less damage. Why do we constantly infringe ourselves on other's choices? If these ladies wish to commemmorate their dead ancestors, who does it hurt? If the councilman is offended, let him work for a new statute or let him avoid looking.

[kwassa]

22. Who is to say that these men did something wrong? Everyone.

We certainly have the right, and should exercise that right, to judge traitors to the United States. These men fought as traitors, and no amount of rationalization will change that. We do have the capacity to study that era, see the issues and hand, and judge it, and we should.