McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

[BlueJessamine]

Source: The Guardian

The Republican US presidential candidate John McCain was not tortured during his captivity in North Vietnam, the chief prison guard of the jail in which he was held has claimed.

In an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Nguyen Tien Tran acknowledged that conditions in the prison were "tough, though not inhuman". But, he added: "We never tortured McCain. On the contrary, we saved his life, curing him with extremely valuable medicines that at times were not available to our own wounded."

McCain, who fell into enemy hands after his plane was shot down in 1967, has frequently referred to being tortured and has cited his experiences as a reason for vigorously opposing the endorsement by the Bush administration of the use of techniques such as "water-boarding" on terrorist suspects.

Shortly after his release in 1973 McCain told US News & World Report that his prison guards had beaten him "from pillar to post". After being worked over at intervals for four days, he said, he had become suicidal and agreed to sign a "confession" admitting to war crimes.



Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/14/uselections2008-johnmccain

[truthisfreedom]

1. Oh for fuck's sake. We need this like we need a hole in the head.

How aggravating to get some kind of dirt on McPOW and have it be this. SHIT!

[JeanGrey]

14. Gee how lucky he ended up in the Hanoi Hilton, otherwise

he might have died. (sarcasm off)

[FreakinDJ]

26. Did any enlisted men even make it back

I remember watching them return on the news -No enlisted men under the rank of E-7

Considering all the rank and privilege John McLame was born into and how much he loves to trot out his POW record every time he is too ignorant to answer a question honestly

He not once addressed the issue of all those forgotten - not worth the trip to the POW camp

and the Fuck wad made sure the records were sealed and buried forever

I think the VietnamvetsagainstJohnMcCane.com have a VERY Legitimate gripe with McLame no matter how politically incorrect it might be at THIS moment in time

[happyslug]

75. These were Pilots held by the North Vietnamese in Hanoi, NOT prisoners held by the VC

And except for older pilots (An enlisted person could become a pilot prior to 1947, but if no wings by 1947 you had to be an officer) all the pilots were Officers. Thus unless you were on a B-52 that was shoot down (We did lose a few) it as rare to have any enlisted personnel held by the North Vietnamese (And those would be high ranking Enlisted such as E-7s or higher on the B-52s).

Now in South Vietnam we did have some enlisted captured, but they were retained in the South or in Load or Cambodia (Officially, the camps may have been in North Vietnam, but the North maintained it was NOT involved in the fighting in the South, the Vite Cong were called an internal revolt against South Vietnam, everyone knew better but it was the official position).

for more see:
http://www.vietnamwar.com/powhonorbound.htm

I like the story of the First US Soldier held by the Viet Cong:

The first American taken prisoner by the Viet Cong was Army Spec. 4 George F. Fryett, seized Dec. 26, 1961, while riding a bicycle on the way to a swimming pool on the outskirts of Saigon. He was freed in June 1962: His captors simply came out of the jungle at a main road and put him on a bus back to Saigon.


Longest held US POW by the Viet Cong, one of the few POW held in the North even through captured in South Vietnam:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/story14.htm

Book on the story of the First Marine held by the Viet Cong:
http://books.google.com/books?id=vNPbcL1RBUwC&pg=PA118&lpg=PA118&dq=Viet+Cong+POW&source=web&ots=6l0losEFXV&sig=Ji9ei_TNy-NMsvYYaK53zD07SeU

[Joe Chi Minh]

76. Not you, too, DJ...!

[Rancid Crabtree]

80. There was an enlisted man who escaped...

...read that, so it must be true, hey? Got blown off the deck of some destroyer on the gun line, was captured...convinced his captors that he was just a lowly enlisted man, mispronounced Ho Chi's name (Horse Shit Men), was able to escape, and eventually returned to friendly forces...became some kind of instructor later on...but yeah, you're probably right, no enlisted men returned otherwise...

[alfredo]

32. They should prove it or shut up.

[formercia]

61. Mc Cain also gave the Hanoi Hilton Commandant English lessons.

I watched the interview on TV.

Giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

His story is bullshit.

I can just see him yelling at the guards: "Do you know who I am?!!!"

[AZ Criminal JD]

81. You are an idiot

[baldguy]

2. What, he fell down the stairs over & over?

[sbinsdca]

36. McCain's a fraud

I watched the video when he was rescued and put on the plane home. He was bouncing around and smiling. McCain is a complete fraud.

[Raine]

47. He was happy to be rescued and going home

who wouldn't be smiling ... smiling proves NOTHING!

[toopers]

60. Your full of sh*t . . .

I have watched the video and unless you are saying is obvious limp and inability to raise his arm above his shoulder are bouncing around, I have to assume that you are intentionally spreading manure.

[Frisbee]

84. There are plenty of reasons to hate on McPOW...

we don't need to jump on made-up BS ones. That only makes us look foolish and small and helps McPOW.

[Thorandmjolnir]

69. That picture is after he was operated on in the US

There is footage of him when he got released. He walks without crutches and a very slight limp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ivEI9BVBxw

[Pavulon]

3. All politics aside..

they had a clear history of inflicting pain and death on prisoners. They do make nice shirts and take american express at the hilton in ho chi mihn city.

[TheLastMohican]

50. Considering that US napalmed half of their country

for trying to go their own way. McCain had it easy. It is a price for playing imperialist power games.

[Joe Chi Minh]

77. ... and Agent Oranged the other half....

[ORDagnabbit]

4. Mccains POW records are sealed forever. wierd huh?

[still_one]

5. Bullshit. I detest the politics of mccain, but this man was a POW and was tortured

There are physicial impairments he has from that torture

I was against the Viet Nam war from the start, but too many soldiers were tortured during that war which contradict that claim

This has nothing to do with mccain's policies or the election

It is a distraction, which happens to be a lie

[carla]

17. I have read that many of his injuries

were the result of the crash of his jet. I don't deny he was beaten, but I have doubts about his torture story, especially when the records are sealed.

[still_one]

67. You want to make this a campaign issue, DON'T do us any favors /nt

[Feron]

18. I agree. n/t

[sbinsdca]

37. Fraud

Go watch the video of him getting on the plane home. He's bouncing around, smiling and joking with his fellow former POWs. He's a fraud.

[Raine]

49. That is RIDICULOUS

as I said before...who the hell wouldn't be happy to be going home after years locked up. This doesn't prove fraud, it proves nothing...try again.

[still_one]

68. Don't do us or Obama any favors with this garbage /nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

6. What? Are They Using The Bush Doctrine Definition Of Torture?

If so, it makes perfect sense :eyes:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ConcernedCanuk]

38. I don't understand your anger with the poster, BlueJessamine.

.
.
.

She never even offered an opinion, just posted a legit article.

And for those that hadn't a clue, like myself what the Frig IBTL means

I found a definition here that seems relevant to your post

http://www.netlingo.com/lookup.cfm?term=IBTL

IBTL

In Before The Lock

An acronym used in online forum threads that are expected to be closed soon by moderators, especially when adding one's opinion to an already heated or controversial topic.

Hopefully BlueJessamine isn't overly upset by your post.

I wouldn't be . . .

[BlueJessamine]

39. And they say chivalry is dead...

Thank you ConcernedCanuk!

[Doctor_J]

8. Yeah, he just sat in the cage playing cards for 4 years

This guy must be working for McSame campaign to bring this up

[Purveyor]

9. Sounds like neocon bait being laid for the next Faux Knoise 'outrage'... eom

[riverwalker]

10. this post is demeaning to DU n/t

[KoKo]

11. I have always believed McCain lied about this...but then...who knows...

He claims he can't raise his hands because of his injuries...yet I saw a photo of him using a Blackberry. He seems stiff but then one of his daughters was featured behind him at one of the rallies last week and she is built just like her Dad. She's stocky and has a short neck and seems to have his same pose of not moving her hands like he claims he can't.

That his whole life is a fabrication would make sense from what I read about him in that Mother Jones article. He just has a "flair" for the dramatic. He probably had some injuries from being shot down...but to hear him describe them...he wouldn't be alive today...yet he managed to come home...hang out with the guys, cheat on his wife and marry this chick with a fortune and have a few more kids. Kind of hard to do if you are as crippled and in pain as he would have been from many broken bones being reset over and over during and after his plane crash and the "torture." He probably was living it up with his Vietnamese captors, playing craps, drinking booze and taking advantage of the "girls" that were plentiful in Vietnam at that time for those who had money, power and influence.

Just saying...it's what I think....not that I could not be very wrong...but still ...his bio doesn't ad up with what we see of his life and how he appears today.

[teknomanzer]

29. Seriously - you have a skewed view...

I am no fan of McCain - especially after the last week of dirty politics... but to suggest that he was boozing it up, gambling and bird dogging while he was a POW is just fucking stupid. Period.

I have no doubt that some part of his story is probably fabricated to put himself in a better light, and I want to suggest that we should not be critical of his version of the story. However, you cannot be expected to be taken seriously with such inane comments.

[sbinsdca]

42. He tells us how and when he was injured here:

At 8:20 of the video he, himself, states both his arms and a leg were broken when he ejected after being shot down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXjWguoFbpI

[JDPriestly]

43. McCain was, at the least, injured in the crash of his plane.

Beyond that, we have to take his word, and that of the men who were imprisoned with him, that there was torture.

[FreakinDJ]

12. 32 Taped Confessions from McLame in Hanoi

when do you get your courage back

[bertman]

13. Who gives a fuck? Even if it is true, this is the WORST TIME to bring it up.

[trthnd4jstc]

22. Why? Would not the very Truth Matter?

I am trying to never say anything wrong-headed about my political opponents, but if the facts are that Sen. McCain is playing up his record as a POW, and that record is patently false, what would be wrong with bringing it up. We have nothing to fear about the truth, do we?

[BlueIdaho]

15. See? Republicans aren't the only ones to engage in revisionist history! nm.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. "We never tortured McCain"

Yeah, and we don't torture, either. :sarcasm:

[JDPriestly]

45. The North Vietnamese were very doctrinaire and could rationalize just about anything.

I met some true believers in France while I was studying there. They were not the kinds of people you would want to meet in a dark alley at night. They were very clever in a kind of underhanded way. I also met very nice Vietnamese students -- in particular one who was a Catholic priest and very gracious and kind.

[alfredo]

19. Both sides of this story have their own reasons to say what they say.

I want documentation from the Vietnamese to support their claim. If they can't back it up, butt out.

[Kalifornia.Kid]

20. CAMPAIGN TORTURE ??

[hay rick]

21. McCain supported waterboarding.

McCain voted against the Intelligence Authorization bill in Feb. which would have outlawed waterboarding by the CIA. Dems passed it and Bush vetoed it.

[Psephos]

25. Actually, he was one of the few repugs to oppose torture as a policy

give him credit for that

[TankLV]

27. No - he voted TO ALLOW TORTURE! We will NOT give that fucking LYING piece of shit "credit"

for ANYTHING!

Did you even READ the post - HE VOTED AGAINST OUTLAWING TORTURE!!!

actions speak louder than a phoney IMAGE...

[Psephos]

31. I'm not interested in defending McSame, but I'm also not interested in semantics

You're referring to the CIA proscription bill. McSame voted against it. But Obama and Clinton refrained from voting at all. You have a problem with that? Care to guess why not?

The issue in this particular bill is more complex than your multiple exclamation point post implies. You do nobody any service pretending it was an up/down vote on torture. If I was a senator, I would strongly have voted for it. But I'm not a senator.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00022

Meanwhile, what do you say to these random snags from the net?

http://www.tortureisnotus.org/what_it_does.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/us/politics/16mccain.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10480690/

Etc.

[Tuttle]

65. hay rick is right: McCain flipped on torture

You've documented the showdown but not the actual gun battle.

NY Times from February 17, 2008 (not November 16, 2007)

This is something the media (and lots of folks here, apparently) overlook or just don't understand... while McCain went through the drama of a staring contest with Bush, Johnny Mack was the one who blinked.

Shameful! (I know I'm not supposed to use exclamation points, but this one is necessary)

Tut-tut

[Psephos]

70. Why didn't Obama or Clinton vote against it?

Under the premise implied in this thread, they should have been all over it. But they weren't. They "overslept" and hoped no one would notice. That's no accident; it tells you there's more involved than the oversimplification being hawked above.

[Tuttle]

74. I didn't know Barack and Hillary were POWs

wow: thanks for opening my eyes!

Tut-tut

[Psephos]

85. They're senators, and it's their job to take a stand on issues like torture

Really, is that all you've got? You have to be a POW to oppose torture?

lol

[TankLV]

83. On EVERY FUCKING VOTE - mcINSANE voted FOR allowing TORTURE.

Go look at the record.

If it's a choice between believing the PROVEN LIAR mcINSANE or the Vietnamese Guard, I take the Honerable Guard, without hesitation...

[Psephos]

86. Go follow a couple of the links I posted

It makes what you just said sound ridiculous.

Meanwhile, maybe you can spend a little less time on DU getting overheated over the size of a gnat's bellybutton, and funnel that energy into a local GOTV for Obama.

Just a thought.

[TankLV]

89. mcINSANE talks a lot - BUT VOTED FOR APPROVING THE USE OF TORTURE.

Look it up.

Maybe YOU'RE the one who needs an education, honey...

and you're damn right I'm upset and overheated with LIARS spouting LIES as YOU do...

just a thought...

[Psephos]

90. How old are you? Nine?

lol

[hay rick]

28. Yes and no.

He has made public statements opposing waterboarding but came up McLame when it came to a vote. He claimed that he considered waterboarding to be outlawed by existing legislation but also said that the CIA shouldn't be bound by Army interrogation standards (i.e. no waterboarding). My take- he caved.

[emilyg]

23. I don't believe the guard.

[ryanmuegge]

24. He probably wasn't. Or, at worst, he had it a lot better than most POWs without famous dads.

[BrklynLiberal]

34. See my post about the Rolling Stone story.

You are right.

[Joe Chi Minh]

79. One simple question remains. Most of the rest is, I would think speculation.

Why are his records sealed? It's the Diebold/airport "sniffer dog" thing.

Like everyone, I expect he has stuff he's ashamed of, although the particular circumstances were dire enough to cause anyone to behave less than admirably. Maybe he's been shooting a line. Maybe often. But whatever he doesn't want known, I have to concede (not that it's at all relevant to politics) that going up in a plane a fourth time, after crashing three other planes must take some kind of courage.

Even if it was recklessness, it has to make you wonder, and give him some kind of credit - if only because it's such a mystery. I know so many people who dread flying in a civil aircraft. I expect McCain still flies. Why I'm more inclined to attribute it to recklessness rather than courage as such, is that his life seems to have been a chronicle of selfish behaviour at the expense of others - and his current politics only confirm it. But, "God love him", maybe "he's just a raging maniac".... with a component of bizarre and mysterious courage; though not, I think, "a dear, dear friend" of the American people, any more than the other Neocons.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

30. Someone here on DU wrote an excellent post which pointed out the fact that...

...by Bushco standards of acceptable techniques for gathering information, McCain's treatment was not torture.

Wish I could remember the link...It's been awhile.

[BrklynLiberal]

33. According to the Rolling Stone story....

<snip>
There is no question that McCain suffered hideously in North Vietnam. His ejection over a lake in downtown Hanoi broke his knee and both his arms. During his capture, he was bayoneted in the ankle and the groin, and had his shoulder smashed by a rifle butt. His tormentors dragged McCain's broken body to a cell and seemed content to let him expire from his injuries. For the next two years, there were few days that he was not in agony.

But the subsequent tale of McCain's mistreatment — and the transformation it is alleged to have produced — are both deeply flawed. The Code of Conduct that governed POWs was incredibly rigid; few soldiers lived up to its dictate that they "give no information . . . which might be harmful to my comrades." Under the code, POWs are bound to give only their name, rank, date of birth and service number — and to make no "statements disloyal to my country."

Soon after McCain hit the ground in Hanoi, the code went out the window. "I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital," he later admitted pleading with his captors. McCain now insists the offer was a bluff, designed to fool the enemy into giving him medical treatment. In fact, his wounds were attended to only after the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a Navy admiral. What has never been disclosed is the manner in which they found out: McCain told them. According to Dramesi, one of the few POWs who remained silent under years of torture, McCain tried to justify his behavior while they were still prisoners. "I had to tell them," he insisted to Dramesi, "or I would have died in bed."

Dramesi says he has no desire to dishonor McCain's service, but he believes that celebrating the downed pilot's behavior as heroic — "he wasn't exceptional one way or the other" — has a corrosive effect on military discipline. "This business of my country before my life?" Dramesi says. "Well, he had that opportunity and failed miserably. If it really were country first, John McCain would probably be walking around without one or two arms or legs — or he'd be dead."

Once the Vietnamese realized they had captured the man they called the "crown prince," they had every motivation to keep McCain alive. His value as a propaganda tool and bargaining chip was far greater than any military intelligence he could provide, and McCain knew it. "It was hard not to see how pleased the Vietnamese were to have captured an admiral's son," he writes, "and I knew that my father's identity was directly related to my survival." But during the course of his medical treatment, McCain followed through on his offer of military information. Only two weeks after his capture, the North Vietnamese press issued a report — picked up by The New York Times — in which McCain was quoted as saying that the war was "moving to the advantage of North Vietnam and the United States appears to be isolated." He also provided the name of his ship, the number of raids he had flown, his squadron number and the target of his final raid.
<snip>

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print

[struggle4progress]

35. Just drop it: citing it will certainly backfire

Most of us simply can't and won't ever fully know or understand McCain's experience as a prisoner

It is clear that the prison guard would have every motive to lie, if McCain was mistreated -- and since many people affected by the Vietnam war will always regard the Vietnamese as enemies, the guard's claim won't have any persuasive value to a large segment of the population

[sbinsdca]

40. I no longer trust anything Mccain claims.

There's too much evidence here to ignore.

I believe he was injured in one of his 5 plane crashes or in the ejection process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLWEDMLmjKk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YwnTnmbOMQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXjWguoFbpI

Mccain is a skunk.

[CreekDog]

41. not having one's injuries treated or treated properly constitutes torture

torture isn't always an act of commission.

[krkaufman]

44. Just what you'd expect them to say to facilitate the election of their Manchurian Candidate.

;)

[Raine]

46. The guy was locked up for years

that's bad enough, debating whether or not he was beaten at this stage is STUPID and hurts our side!!! We don't need this kind of CRAP posted here! :mad:

[eridani]

48. Single source information always needs corroboration

I don't see any here.

[Solly Mack]

51. Except McCain does support torture

Yep..that's pretty much all I take offense to in the article...

Sure, McCain's public face said no torture but then with the bills he co-authored/sponsored and with his votes he said the opposite

The Detainee Treatment Act (sponsored by Mccain) exempted the CIA..meaning..McCain supported the CIA using torture...except McCain likes calling torture "enhanced interrogation techniques"

And in the MCA of 2006..... exempted people all the way back to 1997 from being charged for torturing people (retro immunity) AND gave Bush the sole authority on determining what is and isn't torture..

And let's not forget the loss of habeas corpus - Section 7 of the MCA 2007 eliminates that right

In addition to that, when Congress wanted to ban what was already banned (for all the good it did), McCain voted against banning waterboarding...

That said...

I have no reason to doubt that McCain was subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques ....the very same kind the Bush admin. approved of..and McCain voted in favor of


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021503318.html
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/29145res20070322.html

[AZ Criminal JD]

82. How did Obama vote on that?

[Psephos]

87. He skipped voting on it. As did HRC.

Profiles in courage.

[The Woodpecker]

52. Since it's the chief prison guard who makes these claims....

...it must be true right? I mean where there's smoke there is fire usually. Why would the chief prison guard
go all the way to Italy to give such damning testimony? I mean if it was Spain then I'd doubt the truthfulness since Spain is on McCains terror watch list and they don't like us much anymore.

Yeah, considering what McCain has lied about recently and the amount of lies he has no problem telling it only makes what the chief prison guard said very possibly true. After all, what one man calls torture is another mans pleasure. McCain might have just been coddled to the point where not getting everything he wanted from his captors he considered torture.

I don't like Republicans very much anymore. I really don't. It's just to hard these days to believe what they say about anything. The chief prison guard could very well be telling the truth. Why would he lie?

[Smith_3]

53. Too many people here are kneejerking into a "don't tread on my holy cow" mode here.

So a guy comes out and makes such a claim. Why not listen to what he has to say and view the evidence? What reason does this man have to lie? I'm not saying that he is right, but I don't see why I should believe McCain more than I believe this guy.

I am suspecting that the people here who are yelling that this topic shouldn't be discussed are afraid of the consequences of McCains story being a lie. Even if one is supportive of the party that opposes McCain, perhaps another "American Myth" coming crashing down is too much to bear for the ego...

[Roland99]

54. This is NOT a story that will sit will with undecideds or independents. It's a base-playing story.

[sandspur]

56. I agree there is no win here for us, it is a distraction at best

even if it is true. A trap at worst, even if there are elements of the truth in it. The current political climate makes it much more incendiary than it would normally be, and it would aways be a fire bomb.

[Downtown Hound]

55. We can win without this

Unless we have absolute proof, then there's no point in bringing this up. I'll let the other side slander a candidate's war record. But until there's proof this is just a he said she said game, and it's a debate we don't need to have.

[jmowreader]

57. He's right on at least one count

The part about their saving his life is spot on--they took him to their best hospital and gave him the best treatment they possibly could.

As to the torture allegation--who's to say? This could mean anything from "we didn't beat him" (unlikely) to "we didn't play Russian Roulette (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRHd5pngWE) or waterboard him" (probable).

If they really DIDN'T torture him, it ruins part of the McCain mythos--that he was tortured while in captivity.

[onehandle]

58. Ignore this crappola. We don't need this. n/t

[mikehiggins]

59. TOXIC: no Democratic swiftboating please

the subject of the OP is dangerously irrelevent and should be left absolutely alone and isolated.

We are NOT going to make any gains taking part in any sort of "swiftboating" which is what, at this point in time, we'll get blasted with from every quarter. This is a topic that should be left to the whackoes and crazies, and not be commented upon by ANY democrat who wants to see O in the WHite House in January.

If the subject comes up, which I hope it won't, every Democratic official and candidate should state firmly and for the record that he or she does NOT beleive these claims and express regret that anyone would call McCain's POW record a fraud.

It is NOT too late for us to screw up this election so when it comes to stuff like this, IMHO, we should all STFU!

Its all about the economy, folks. Everything else is a distraction that works to the GOPukes advantage.

[Lerkfish]

62. EVEN IF this report is true, it is a worthless distraction and not the high road Obama is traveling

It would be sinking to McCain's level, and we can win without doing that.

[MrsBrady]

63. we shouldn't even be going here n/t

[Ian David]

64. Technically, he was "only" tortured for two of the six years he was in prison.

When Ho Chi Minh died, they stopped torturing prisoners.

[jpgray]

66. Even if this were completely true, it still should be utterly avoided by Obama & supporters

Re-fighting the 60's with a "NVA's word against mine" controversy can only benefit McCain. Unless there exists 24/7 video footage of McCain from capture to release (nope!), this is just too toxic and insupportable a charge to lend any credence.

[jbane]

71. Moderators please pull this.

We don't need to go there. We're doing just fine bring up legitimate issues, this is the
tactic used when your out of ideas, kill the messenger and we don't need it.

[Smith_3]

72. Who says its a tactic? What if its true?

Would you still dismiss it because american patriotism is more important than the truth?

[Stuckinthebush]

73. I believe McCain

I don't like his politics, but that doesn't mean he didn't endure some seriously brutal stuff in captivity.

[bitchkitty]

78. Not clicking, not reading.

Don't wanna go there...

[Peacetrain]

88. Democrats do NOT dishonor military service. That is freeper material

I have major disagreements with McCain and his policies. And Obama is going to win on this with his ideas, and commitment to the future of the country, not using free republic garbage.

[FranMonet]

91. enhanced interrogation

Our president says this is not torture but enchanced interrogation.
Would George bush lie to us.

[Uncle Joe]

92. Few people know it, but Bush was actually captured by the Viet Cong

when they overran Alabama, that's why he went missing for some time, although some people still believe he was just AWOL.