If the folks highlighted in this article aren't bitter and racist then

[MISSDem]

I don't know what is. How can people be so ignorant?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/21/AR2008042102794.html?nav=hcmoduletmv&sid=ST2008042103408

[Tampa Rob]

1. These people live ALL OVER in rural areas. Once again,

Thomas Franks' words are prophetic. The guy in the article doesn't like the "proud" comment, or Obama's pastor. No talk of War, Economy, Corruption...it's all what the MSM made into "stories" that these folks are voting on.

It is pathetic, and I'm getting a bit down about our chances in November - too many of these cro magnons seem to be voting.

TR

[Tampa Rob]

8. Interesting dilemma. They won't vote for Obama, some of them for

admittedly racist reasons, but they might vote for HRC.

And if Obama is the nominee, then they'll vote for McCain.

I wonder which candidate has ideals closer to the core beliefs of the Democratic Party that I believe in? Not a close vote.

TR

[orangerevolution]

24. What does not knowing the father's country of origin

have to do with race? And does that make someone a racist? Based on the little that was said in the piece by the family, I don't know that we can with certainty determine they are a racist family.

[Mojambo]

27. I think we can safely say they are xenophobic. n/t

[Andrea]

23. We should make people pass a test before they

can vote, right? We don't want these Cro-Magnons voting!

:sarcasm:

[orangerevolution]

37. Do you really think that way?

Am I supposed to believe a little sarcasm thingy to tell me different than your own typed words?

[Andrea]

40. Of course I don't

I'm responding sarcastically to comment number one. You are new and probably unfamiliar with me, but if you read the rest of my comments in this thread, you'll be reassured that I am most certainly being sarcastic here.

Welcome to DU!


:hi:



(you can rely on the accuracy of the little wave thingy)

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. And if we lose... it's their fault? n/t

[Mojambo]

4. If we lose THEY lose. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. Fair enough. Then it's in all our interests to find a way to get them to vote D, right? n/t

[Mojambo]

7. Sure. And their obligation as voters is to focus on the ISSUES and not be xenophobes and racists

These people who say they'll vote McCain if their preferred candidate doesn't get the nomination are just beyond the pale stupid and clearly are not looking at the issues, where Obama and Clinton are strikingly similar and McCain is a disaster.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. Good then we're agreed that we'll talk to them on that basis.

That they are voters who are interested in the issues.

[BlueManDude]

20. These idiots aren't going to vote for Hillary in fall...

the GOP will drum up some other reason why HRC isn't acceptable to these morons.

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. With all due respect, it is my intent for democrats to win this one, so with that in mind...

shut the fuck up.

[BlueManDude]

39. and you think the GOP wouldn't drudge up some other boogeyman to scare these morons

with if HRC were the nominee.

And there's no call to insult me.

[Two Americas]

32. look no farther

People will never see as allies those who call them "stupid" and "morons." If we want to build a party based on the educated and enlightened few, we will always lose.

There are skills other than intellectual and verbal skills, every bit as important and valuable. If the intellectuals on the left did half the job of earning their keep and contributing something worth while as the rest of the working class people do - farming, nursing, plumbing, landscaping, roofing, wiring, driving, repairing, waiting on us - we would not have the crisis we do.

Mocking, sneering at, and ridiculing the working people is reactionary, and is the main cause of people voting against the Democratic party.

If the people are ill-informed, that is our fault. If the people have a flawed political analysis, that is our fault. If the people see us as arrogant and elitist, that is our fault.

[BlueManDude]

38. These people are stupid racists and if HRC were the nominee...

they'd vote for McCain after the GOP dug up some other "radical" boogeyman to tar Clinton with.

F these people.

[Two Americas]

45. yep

You are perfectly illustrating the bigotry and prejudice I am talking about. It may make you feel good and self-righteous, but being "right" in this way is the consolation prize in politics. It is a poor substitute for results.

"You cannot judge the group by the individual and you cannot judge the individual by the group." That statement expressed an essential principle of morally sound politics and the fight for justice and equality for all people. Talking about "them" in derogatory terms and saying "f them" violates that principle.

Many people vote for Republicans as a way to reject the hypocrisy, bigotry and arrogance you are expressing. But you are right and they are wrong, so f them.

[Saturday]

3. Not everyone is an Obama groupie. There's a world out there. nt

[MISSDem]

6. But to say that you will vote for John Sidney McCain if Obama

is the nominee - what is that all about? That is not just being "not an Obama groupie".

[Tampa Rob]

9. Exactly.

I don't like Obama, so I'd vote for McCain?

I like HRC enough so I'd vote for her OVER McCain?

Either HRC is too close to McCain for my taste, or these people are morons...most likely a little of both.

TR

[orangerevolution]

26. We accuse people of voting Repub cause they don't think.

But when given a choice, these people are thinking as opposed to following the crowd.

[Raineyb]

44. I would hardly call

following racist instincts "not following the crowd."

You are being way too generous.

I am sick and tired of working class values being conflated with racist fuckard thinking. It is not. If these people's whiteness is more important than improving their lot or possibly saving their son's life what the hell do you tell them to make them vote for a black man? I am tired of our party kissing the asses of idiots like that.

And no calling them idiots will not get them to vote our way and you know what? I don't care. I am tired of these racist asshats let them join the Klan rally that is the Republican party.

Regards

Bungled the html tag. Sorry.

[Two Americas]

35. no alternative

When the party and the activists fail so miserably at communicating any alternative to people, what do we expect?

People do not so much vote for Republicans as they do vote against the liberal activist community. They would not vote against Democrats if the party was presenting a strong left wing economic program, rather than playing culture war game - the game the right wingers created and will always win.

[Andrea]

36. So true

It's time for us to quit letting the Republicans decide what the game is.

[DinahMoeHum]

11. Fuck 'em. Let their kids die in Iraq.

You can't teach ignorant pigs like them how to sing - it's a waste of time and it pisses off the pigs.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Andrea]

12. Walk a mile in their shoes

Have you ever been to McKeesport? Did you read about what they have been through (it was in the article)? Don't we as a party owe it to them to address their problems? Isn't that part of the deal? How can we expect loyalty from them if we aren't loyal to them? Not everyone that votes Democratic is a loyal party member. We expect that of people here, but it doesn't apply to everyone out there. Sure, we wish they were more informed. We wish they would realize what a mistake it would be to vote for McCain. But, this is a two-way street and we have failed them with two corporate candidates who really don't care much about poor working people.

[Mojambo]

13. If they were voting for McCain because they believed in his policies I might cut them some slack

But to do it because you've got a problem with Obama for completely irrelevant and borderline racist and xenophobic reasons then I've got a real problem with them.

[Andrea]

14. They are what they are

We might not like it, but we need to take people as they are. We want their votes, right? We don't say we only want the votes of people who vote for us for policy reasons. We want all the votes we can get. There are people all over out there who make their voting decisions on less than well-thought out reasons. We need the votes regardless. It is our responsibility as a party to convince them of reasons to vote for us.

What's more important - to win or to be "right"?

[Mojambo]

17. We don't have to turn their votes away

But as a party we should never, EVER compromise the choices we are offering to suit the tastes of a bunch of racists.

I'm all for making our case to them, but if they're saying give us Clinton or else then they can kindly fuck off.

By the way the same goes for anybody asserting Obama or else.

[madmom]

19. You are wrong, we do need their votes and every other vote we can get!

[Mojambo]

28. Of course we do

Which is why it's so discouraging that these people would vote for McCain if Hillary doesn't get the nomination. Even though Obama's positions are far more similar to Hillary's than McCain's.

Why would they do that other than the fact that they are not paying attention to the issues and are focusing on the fact that Obama is just flat out too different from them? It's not a healthy perspective and it shouldn't be defended.

[madmom]

30. I'm not defending their choice to go to mccain, I'm saying to just count these people out

is a big mistake,it's way to early to just throw up our hands and say fuck 'em. We need to educate them and find out why they feel disgruntled.

[Skittles]

42. M is NOT WRONG

we should not lower ourselves to pander to the likes of racists and idiots

[madmom]

43. If obama wants to win he need Clinton supporters, I said nothing about pandering but

whats wrong with reaching out and trying to understand other peoples plight, you know like Obama and oh yeah Jesus(If you believe) says we're suppose to do.

[Andrea]

21. Nobody's talking about compromising our choices

But frankly, if we don't start paying attention to the needs of regular working people we are kissing a lot of votes goodbye. I think we could influence them to drop their racist attitudes a lot more effectively by winning them over, and then winning the GE, than by telling them to "fuck off".

Do you wonder why Democrats are accused of being elitist?

[Blue_Tires]

16. +1

[madmom]

18. Gee could it be because Obama's campaign hasn't found the way to reach them yet? Just

because they have not be convinced to vote for Obama doesn't mean they are morons or cro-magnon or what ever you feel like calling them, it means Obama has fail to reach them, how is that their fault? Where is the unity everyone is always talking about? We need these people to put a dem in the white house and to keep alienating them by calling them names is a exercise in futility.Obama can't win without Hillary supporters!:banghead:

[Andrea]

22. Some people seem to think

That a good campaign tactic is to say, "If you don't vote like me then you're a moron." Personally, it seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I've never been won over by such an argument and I doubt many are.

[Mojambo]

25. "I don't even think he's American,"

I don't think Obama's got much of a shot to reach people with this attitude.

They are not writing off Obama because of his policies, they are writing him off because he's not like them. That's wrong and I don't think we should be defending people with such attitudes.

[madmom]

29. Education is a wonderful thing! All they are hearing is the msm how do you know

what they are being told? Many of these people are poor, that means they have no computers or other ways of getting info except the tv and radio. If you want someones support shouldn't you make an extra effort, to many are to willing to say "fuck them, we don't need them" when just the opposite is true, we need them ALL!

[Two Americas]

33. hear hear

Well said. Thanks.

[depakid]

15. More conventional "wisdom" from the Post

The paper's become a tabloid- and Milbank's article is a shining example of that.

Amazing that people still take them seriously.

[Two Americas]

34. excellent analysis there

"...it wasn't a typical Mon Valley gathering. The venue -- a branch campus of Penn State -- played to Obama's base: a racially mixed throng of students blended with an older group of academics, professionals and party types. A Lexus was parked prominently near the entrance. A young man set up a table to sell T-shirts and entertained those waiting in line with a rap: "Run and tell your mamas/We're voting for Obama."

"...the blue-collar voters poised to keep Clinton's candidacy alive are also the reason she is losing the national race to Obama: Though still in charge here, they have lost control of the Democratic Party to the wealthy and better-educated.

I am no fan of Senator Clinton, and she has been no better at fighting for the working people than most other Democrats over the last 2 or 3 decades, as control over the party and liberalism has passed to a relatively small number of people from a very narrow demographic. Reading the above two paragraphs, can anyone deny that the party has in fact become elitist, or can everyone at the very least admit that we appear elitist?

There is a growing rift in the party, and this primary season is bringing it into stark relief. Are we to imagine that it is a coincidence that as an upscale faction has gained total domination over liberalism and the party, that at the same time workers rights have been eroded, half of the people have slid into poverty or near poverty, and the needs of the poor, the abused and forgotten are being neglected? Is it a coincidence that those who are doing pretty well do not have any sense of urgency about the people's needs, and are moving us farther and farther away from the traditional principles and ideals of the party?

We are becoming the "intelligent" party, but if we were really applying our intelligence we would not let that happen. We are also becoming more and more libertarian, and slapping an "organic" label on that or being "against the war" (when there is no war), or riding a bike and claiming that doing so is "saving the planet" - - doesn't change that.

The politics of "personal choice" and "personal belief systems" ignores the fact that for most people, the choices are becoming more and more limited, and that most people are not shopping for a new belief system. Working class people see modern liberalism for what it is - not a political movement, but rather a cultural movement that reflects the prejudices and bigotry of a pampered and privileged few who look at the people with contempt, condescension and arrogance.

[Skittles]

41. it's tempting to laugh at them but

they will be the real downfall of America

[Karenina]

46. Grammatical challenge...

not "will," rather "have already been."