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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:49 PM
Original message
Rep Jane Harman's personal Blog in responce to Kos blog...
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 08:51 PM by Flabbergasted
Jane Harman replied to:

Kos: Dems Implicated in Illegal Wiretapping Ready to Compromise
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=317935&mesg_id=317935

with this:

What rubbish! For those like me who insist that the President’s domestic surveillance program must comply fully with the Constitution and the 4th Amendment, the only way for Congress to get there is with a veto-proof majority. That's why I'm working with Republicans. Got a better idea?

I opposed the FISA-gutting Protect America Act last August and supported the much-improved H.R. 3773, which did not include retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies. I call on the White House to do more than share selected documents with a handful of Senators – how do we know what the White House is not providing? In my view, the question of retroactive immunity cannot even be considered until Congress is fully informed about what happened and under what authority.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/31/10182/509


to which drational responded:

Honorable Representative Harman:

I am humbled that you took the time to respond to my diary from yesterday.

In some ways I regret having stirred your passions, because it was not my intention to provoke you to display your anger here on dailyKos. On the other hand, I am glad your passions are stirred. Because perhaps you now know that there are many of us in this country who are deeply concerned about the direction our government is taking.

My diary yesterday noted that you were one of the 3 congresspersons briefed about the Administration's Warrantless Surveillance Program back in the days when it was illegal. From October 2001 through March 10, 2004, the Program was unchallenged. On March 10, 2004 several principled men in the DOJ stood up and said "NO" to the Administration. They stood up for the Constitution and for the Rule of Law. These men were not Democrats, not Progressives, and not advocates of Civil Liberties. They were prepared to resign from their powerful positions in the DOJ and FBI on a matter of principle, and in defense of the most important document in our nation's history, present and future- The Constitution of the United States of America.

Contrary to every prior authorization of this Program, on March 11, 2004, this illegal program was reauthorized by Alberto Gonzales, on behalf of the President. With the exception of FBI director Robert Mueller, the men who said "no" left government shortly after this incident, at least one of whom, Patrick Philbin, was blocked from promotion in retribution.

Of course I do not know how much you knew about the illegal Program. I only know that you were one of three Democrats who knew the most about it. No one here knows exactly what about the illegal Program made it illegal. I and others here have speculated that it involved warrantless wiretapping in contravention of existing FISA law. Many of us suspect that American Citizens were wiretapped without a warrant under the Program. To us, this possibility is frightening. It is unconstitutional, and it is unacceptable.

I do not know if you knew the Program was illegal, nor do I know if you could have stopped the illegal Program. You did not, nor did your Democratic colleagues who also were briefed on the Program. One of your briefed colleagues, Jay Rockefeller hand-wrote a letter to Dick Cheney in 2003 with concerns about the illegal Program. Perhaps you did as well.

Jay Rockefeller is now supporting immunity for Telecommunication Companies who may have perpetrated illegal acts under the auspices of the Program. He wrote an op-ed in today's Washington Post. You now voice objection to TelCo immunity, and for this I applaud you. Yet you must know from your behind the scenes negotiations with Republicans on this issue, that the White House and Republican leadership will NEVER give up on immunity. Because if the TelCos are guilty of perpetrating the illegality, those who designed and authorized the illegality are also in trouble.

You state in your diary today:

For those like me who insist that the President’s domestic surveillance program must comply fully with the Constitution and the 4th Amendment, the only way for Congress to get there is with a veto-proof majority. That's why I'm working with Republicans.

This means that it will take 60 Senators and 2/3 of the House to uphold the Constitution. To me this is a sad thing. It makes me angry, and it makes me wonder how we got to this point in the first place.

You ask me if I have a better idea about how to proceed.

I want you to tell us what you know about whether the Government conducted illegal warrantless surveillance under the Program from 10/2001- 3/2004.

Then I want you to tell us that it was unconstitutional, anti-American, and wrong.

Then I would like you and the rest of Congress to stand up in public and say that illegal Warrantless Surveillance of Americans is wrong.

I want to see full investigations of the illegality of the Warrantless Surveillance program and those who authorized it, and a pledge that it will never happen again.

I want a moratorium on extra-FISA wiretapping and FISA-related legislation until the illegality of the program is disclosed and remedied, in full.

I want you to continue working toward the ideals you embraced in your diary-

I call on the White House to do more than share selected documents with a handful of Senators – how do we know what the White House is not providing? In my view, the question of retroactive immunity cannot even be considered until Congress is fully informed about what happened and under what authority.

-But at the same time I want you to be cognizant that a bipartisan agreement ensuring Telco immunity will likely bury any hope of ever knowing how badly our laws and Constitution were and are being violated. You must recognize that owing to your involvement in advice and consent on the Illegal Warrantless Surveillance Program, when you work behind closed doors with the Administration to craft a bipartisan agreement, when Rockefeller touts TelCo immunity, and when Speaker Pelosi ensured facile PAA passage through the House, there is a significant appearance of conflict of interest. It may not be an accurate or fair criticism, and it is clearly one to which you object, but it is my humble analysis.

To me, the Bush Administration Unitary Executive Power Grab, and the failure of Congressional oversight have created the biggest internal crises our country has ever faced. It seems no one in Government has the courage to stand up and deal with it. The outcome of this debacle will influence the world forever. I have two beautiful children I want to enjoy freedom and justice. I know you share my goals and hope you will forgive my insolence and work toward them with me.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/31/153922/89


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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good! Constructive, rational dialog between our representitives and
ourselves in these on-line forums show the real value of sites like Daily Kos. Perhaps elected Democrats are finally starting to get it.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's amazing really...
There is an additional layer to media developing.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Indeed, this is a novel new way
of discussion between those who hold the office and those who they represent. By the way, the letter/diary in response was awesome.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. I will be looking for her response.. . . . .n/t
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. excellent! Thanks Flabbergasted!
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Harman can no longer be trusted.
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 10:34 PM by blackops
She has done more than anyone else to enable the fascists, especially after sponsoring H.R. 1955. Read about it http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=4682">here.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I was away on a trip when all this happened.....deep into my 91 year
old mother's house when all this happened. I had my choice of the weather channel or Faux News!

Today I read about H.R. 1955 on another website and came back to DU to search it....unfortunately, I didn't find much....was this widely reported here? I am amazed we're not going after this blatant attack on the American citizens! Hopefully, your kindly provided link got a few to read about this dangerous bill. Thanks.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. knr
dialog with citizen in process


... although 'What rubbish!' is a tad gauche as a response ...


"...the only way for Congress to get there is with a veto-proof majority..."

and, if not, what becomes of our country and The Constitution ... now, and in the future?


Got a better idea?

Fighting the stolen election of 2000 would have been a good start ... since, we're now in the year 2007 ...

one suggestion might be:

... as a step toward a veto-proof majority ... require paper ballots w/an audit trail and hand count tabulations beginning immediately (before the primaries); and, repeal HAVA ... a step I would have included in the first 100 hours.







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