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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:03 AM
Original message
Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report
Mods: I hope this can remain here. These are not crackpot conspiracy theorists imo, we just need our government to tell us what really happened.


September 23, 2007 at 08:53:46

Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report

by Alan Miller


Official Account of 9/11 a “Joke” and a “Cover-up”

September 23, 2007 – Seven CIA veterans have severely criticized the official account of 9/11 and have called for a new investigation. “I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke,” said Raymond McGovern, 27-year veteran of the CIA, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates during the seventies. “There are a whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they’re unanswered is because this administration will not answer the questions,” he said. McGovern, who is also the founder of VIPS (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity), is one of many signers of a petition to reinvestigate 9/11.(1)


Raymond McGovern

During his 27-year CIA career, McGovern personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials. Upon retirement in 1990, McGovern was awarded the CIA’s Intelligence Commendation Medallion and received a letter of appreciation from then President George H. W. Bush. However, McGovern returned the award<2> in 2006 in protest of the current George W. Bush Administration’s advocacy and use of torture.

In his blurb for 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out,” edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott, McGovern wrote(3): “It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney administration cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs. But the present volume confronts us with evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus exploited. If this is true, it is not merely the case, as the Downing Street memos show, that the stated reason for attacking Iraq was a lie. It is also the case that the whole “war on terror” was based on a prior deception. This book hence confronts the American people---indeed the people of the world as a whole---with an issue second to none in importance and urgency. I give this book, which in no way can be dismissed as the ravings of ‘paranoid conspiracy theorists,’ my highest possible recommendation.”


William Christison, a 29-year CIA veteran, former National Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis also describes the 9/11 Commission Report as a “joke” and offers even more outspoken criticism. In a 2006 audio interview(4) he said, "We very seriously need an entirely new very high level and truly independent investigation of the events of 9/11. I think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a joke and not a serious piece of analysis at all.”

more...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_070922_seven_cia_veterans_c.htm
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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sazemisery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Don't you know! All ex CIA officers are...
batshit crazy gonzo has-beens and should not be believed. :sarcasm: k&r
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, Mr. McGovern, many of us are listening and
inquiring minds do want to know!
If 9/11 were regarded as a crime, then anyone with a motive should be investigated - i.e. the neo-cons / Project for a New American Century, etc.

Amazing how the Bush maladministration kept saying "It's not about the oil," even though oil was on the list of 3 reasons for invading and OCCUPYING Iraq. Well, Greenspan just spilled the beans on that one.
INVESTIGATE!
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, but Madame Speaker Pelosi has her fingers in her ears, tra-la-la.
Off the table. We need more room for all the tea service, for as many more bi-partisan madhatter tea parties for Junior and Snarl we can squeeze in between now and 08. Busy, busy, busy.
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Broadslidin Donating Member (949 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Your 'Rep. Palosi' Statement is Truly, Spot On.....!!
What a Miserable, ensconced two political party Bloody Mess.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. Or the illusion of two parties
You do have to wonder which master they all serve. Both Democratic and Republican presidents seem to cater to the CIA and its advice which makes the Bushes that much more suspect in so much of the current state of affairs since they are tied into the CIA since the 1950s but particularly since George Bush headed the CIA in 1975. About the time the "student protests" began against the Shah. The ones orchestrated by the CIA. Most of the snakes the past 30 years, if you'll pardon the pun, are to be found lurking about in the bushes. Including the Clintons.

One of the worst mistakes ever made by a president was the refusal by Jimmy Carter to defend the Shah. To my knowledge, he has written very little about it. Certainly he cannot believe he is responsible for the establishment of democracy in Iran. No doubt the CIA cooked up a good one for him. To get him to refuse to defend the Shah. Don't overlook the imbalance of power Khomeini created in the region. Or Iran-Contra.

Iran-Contra was never really investigated either. Along with most everything else from the point the Shah was deposed.

As for Pelosi and her tea parties, she should remembemer a previous tea party in Boston. When they dumped the tea in Boston Harbor.

We need to dump a number of politicians, Democrats, who have supported this president without hesitation and hiding the support behind varied and at times vacous explanation.

And Madame Speaker should be the first. Hopefully her constituents will do so.

Does anyone realize that in the next 13 months Bush could forever establish his legacy of oligarchy and theocracy by naming another Supreme Court justice?

The first order of business should have been impeachment and removal of Cheney and then Bush. Even if it meant bringing the entire country to a halt by brining Congress to a halt to do so. What can really pass in Congress at this point without the support of the Democrats? That is where their power is.

Leave the country high and dry with no money? My, my. Isn't that what Congress has done to a growing number of Americans? Let them eat cake. A growing number of Americans are tired of the cake that Pelosi and the rest of Congress enjoys while millions and millions of Americans can only settle from the leftover crumbs of that cake.

It certainly would bring the war that isn't a war to a grinding halt. And might allow the Iraqis to rebuild their country. After we destroyed it. And Iran is next.

Pelosi to me is now a six letter word along with the four letter words. A true obscenity in the English language.

I wonder how many tales could really be told by former CIA agents. Not that anyone in Congress would listen. But the rest of the country might. And might really start banging those pots and pans. All the way to the polls. And the second great tea party. Dumping all of Congress, if need be, into the harbor of retirement.

That is about the only thing that will probably save this country. The Republicans won't do it. But they are the minority. The Democrats can. And should. And add a couple of new seats as well.

Real Democrats. Not the Pelosi Democrats.

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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
55. Another reason this Democratic Congress is more popular among
Republicans than Democrats.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. My next door neighbor is retired CIA. The day after 9/11,
I was out in the driveway washing the car (I find it a good way to relax and think), and he walked out his front door and came over to chat. We talked occasionally about politics, and he had mentioned once or twice that he used to work for the Agency.

I've always liked my neighbor. He's a quiet, good natured guy who runs the food pantry for his church's homeless shelter and is an active member of the local Democratic Committee. For years, he's contributed to Amnesty International and Greenpeace -- I know because we pick up his mail when he goes away on vacation.

On the afternoon of September 12th, I felt a sudden, welling up of anger that started in the base of my spine and moved swiftly to my mouth. I said to my neighbor, "This didn't happen without warning. The Agency had to know this was coming. "

He looked down at the driveway for a moment, and replied, "I have to agree with you."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Is there a reason why we can't discuss the role of the Stephen Bros?
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 12:58 PM by leveymg
They are financial intermediaries between the Saudis, the Chinese and the last three Presidents of the United States, and are key to understanding the financial network that leads to BCCI, Iran-Contra, Khan's nuclear network, and 9/11.

Further, the CIA did have a relationship with al Qaeda beginning with the Afghan war against the Soviets, which continued until the mid-1990s, as UBL continued to be used as a tool to dislodge the Russians and their Yugoslav allies from the Balkins/Caspian Sea region. UBL also worked with British MI5 during the 1990s in an effort to depose Khadaffi. A vast grab of much of the world's oil and natural gas reserves that greatly benefited western energy companies. And, so on.

Those facts are pretty well established.

What's the problem here?
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. The most expedient route to find information on Clinton and Stephen Bros is?
I'd like to know more. I'll enter it in a search engine, but would like to zero in on the best content. Thanks.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. After 9-11, I no longer give breaks to anyone who covered up BCCI and IranContra
and CIA drugrunning.

9-11 should NEVER have happened.

Neither should Bush2.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Who covered up BCCI?
The Democratically controlled Congress, maybe?
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. BCCI is an open secret-much investigation over the years
that never hit the mainstream, of course - alot of it from UK/other sources political/non-political.
BCCI=Bankers,Criminals,Crooks, Inc.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. The BCCI, is an old Scandal. involving a lot of people
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 04:27 PM by happyslug
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International

BCCI stands for "Bank of Credit and Commerce International". It has been called the "Bank of Crooks and Criminals International". It is a HUGE financial Scandal. The exact relationship between the CIA, bid Laden and the Bank is unclear, but reputable people have said the BCCI was used as a Cover for CIA payments to people the CIA did not want to have direct links to. The BCCI was also involved in Drugs, but to what extent is unknown (Through speculation is rift on the net).

Other references:
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html
http://www.apfn.org/APFN/BCCI.htm
http://www.rossbacherlaw.com/bcci.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/20kiss.htm
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. yes, indee,d and there have been many other sources than
Wikipedia providing alot of interesting material on this, alot of it has been pulled from the net. I was reading about this years ago....
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I have read other cite too, I just did a Quick Search
And these appear to be the better ones I found. Nothing more, except to say they is a lot of Speculation about the BCCI but little evidence. One of the reason is the lack of investigation into the BCCI and who did business with it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Kerry investigated it for 5 yrs, but rest of congress wanted him to stop
and so did just about all of DC.

There were 20 outstanding matters he put into the end of his report - matters that needed further scrutiny and access to documents.......what happened to that request?
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. The first two Sites I gave were about Kerry and the BCCI
n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. BCCI is STILL going on: Dubai, BinLaden-Bush-Bath, AQ Khan, Scooter Libby
Marc Rich, Jackson Stephens, Kashoggi, Pakistan, drugrunning, armsdeailing, nuclear proliferation, funding of terrorism....

yeah...

let's all pretend that BCCI is just an 'old scandal'

just as BushInc and the global fascists need us to think.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. agree
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. When I said it was "Old" I did NOT mean it was done.
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 09:12 PM by happyslug
THE BCCI scandal started under Carter (Through Tied in with the CIA more than Carter). The problems with the BCCI began when it was founded in 1972. Carter's budget director, Bert Lance was its American Agent for a while and was caught up in the scandal. The GOP tired to paint it as a Democratic Scandal, but when Kerry looked into it, that move ended (The GOP wanted the Scandal DEAD, which meant their where people in the GOP who were more concerned about how it would affect th GOP than any possible Democratic Scandal). After Kerry's investigation it tend to go off center Stage. Kerry brought it up and showed how bad the BCCI had been. That is how I first read about it in the 1980s, as a Potential Democratic Scandal, and then it just disappeared from the Newspapers afterward.

Anyway, my comment about the BCCI being old, is that it pre-dates this administration (and even the Clinton Administration). That is all I meant by being "Old", NOT that it was NOT important today or ongoing today. I Regret any confusion caused by my use of the term "old" concerning the BCCI scandal.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #44
72. I was using the opportunity to focus the attention of those unfamiliar
with BCCI (unfortunately, TOO MANY Dems and voters haven't a clue about it still, even after 9-11).

I meant it to be a general observation, not personal.

In fact, I'm glad to see you on this thread.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. No. Some powerful Dems did AFTER a few brave Dems investigated it for 5yrs.
The report was sent up and said more scrutiny was needed for some 20 outstanding matters, including AQ Khan and Marc Rich.


That was in Dec 1992......then....

Nada.

And Bill Clinton never even mentions BCCI once in his book.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
54. Well, then, doesn't that mean that Clinton wasn't really much of a Democrat?
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 11:20 PM by Major Hogwash
Since he was a DLC member?

But, I think it is a false dichotomy to lay your argument out as:
Either it was all the Democrats' fault that were in Congress OR it was all President Clinton's fault.

I think the Democrats that were in Congress at the time deserve just as much blame as Bill.

5 years of investigations right down the tubes, man!

What have we learned since then from that experience?

I don't think the recommendations of the 9/11 report will ever be acted upon either.

Look at the blow-back we're experiencing now from the Iran/Contra affair!

Do you have any more links to the BCCI affair?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #54
73. I just said some powerful Dems - in my opinion that would be the Oval Office Dems
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 08:46 AM by blm
and the Senate Majority Leader who was pressed into compliance with the needs of the new Dem WH.

You can read the entire BCCI report in the congressional records - but here is the list at the end of the report delivered in Dec 1992 (transition period, so BOTH administrations, outgoing and incoming, would be FULLY BRIEFED) of 20 outstanding matters that should be of concern to EVERY AMERICAN and every newsperson at this point, especially since it appears AQ Khan is being set up (again) as their reason that Iran and Syria need to be diarmed of the nukes he MAY have sold them.

Just read the 20 questions left unanswered, and it is apparent that had they been a priority for ANY administration, a 9-11 event would never have happened, and NO BUSH would ever be even allowed near the White House.


Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.




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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Oooh, I bookmarked this for sure now. Thank you very much, blm.
Damn good post.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
48.  me either
:hi:
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
77. Hi SLAD
Glad to see your back.
Sorry to see what they did to you.

Truth to Power
911 was an inside job
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
52. The Not-so- Magnificent Seven and Not-so-Neighborly Neighbors
These CIA agents have waited six years to speak out? Reality is they, like your neighbor, were part of what some refer to as Murder, Inc. They can't be too appalled. Their hands are just as stained with the blood of innocent people as everyone else's.

A good Democrat? Contributes to Amnesty International and Greenpeace? Rather incongrous if you ask me given the history of the CIA. If he were my neighbor, I would have moved on 9/12.

I suspect some if not all of them are enjoying payback for Valerie Plame. Cheney endangered all of them by outing Valerie Plame.

Payback is a bitch I guess. I hope so anyway. I still would move if one of them lived next door.

But I do hope more of them talk. And talk loudly. This country needs to finally hear the truth.
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick & Nominated
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. kcik
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. What I don't understand is the number of people who are stridently opposed to asking questions.
It's really time for the subject to come out of the dungeon.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. To question the official conspiracy theory means
casting doubt on your entire world-view. Your very sense of self is threatened if you consider the possibility that we've all been played for the dumb, brainwashed fools the neocons and their contractor cronies take us for. This is shattering to the ego. Mind you, there are still people in this world who deny the holocaust ever took place.

Kudos to all who will face the truth, and love and hugs worldwide.

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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. history
"Your very sense of self is threatened if you consider the possibility that we've all been played for the dumb, brainwashed fools the neocons and their contractor cronies take us for."

the sheep need to open history books, they are full of such stories, this is nothing new. Think hearst and yellow journalism (spanish american war, prohibition of cannbis etc.) think about the BS to get the USA into vietnam (tonkin gulf hoax), the reichstaag fire, extermination of Native Americans because they are ungodly heathens (just BS to convince the masses, the leaders of states and churches know that religion is just the bs that keeps them in money.
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rambler_american Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. False Flag attacks
Not to mention Operation Northwoods
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #41
70. shhhh
we are not supposed to talk about that, oops did I teach that in my history class once in Chicago......=shhhhh
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ToolTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Those tinfoil-wearin freaks are makin us all look bad!
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 03:47 PM by redqueen
:sarcasm:
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R! n/t!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. How long before these guys see fatal accidents?
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everydayis911 Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. I hope this goes somewhere
But they should start on 09/10/01 2.3 TRILLION dollars gone from the Pentagon. I know I sound like a broken record, but money or sexual pleasure is what drive these rethugs.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. for years
For years I have been called a conspiracy theorist just because I did not believe the official explanations of 911. As soon as the Partiot Act was passed I knew it was a setup. Such a long law is not written overnight. No pentagon video, 3 towers falling straight down, a plane that crashed into the ground but has debris spread out over miles. A president that invades Afganistan(and lies telling us that the Taliban was allied with Al Kiduh (w's accent) even though evidence suggests that they were engaged in a civil war and even though the majority of the allegede attackers come from Saudi Arabia. The bullshit finish one sentence with "Al Kiduh" and start the next with "eyerak" as if they were somehow linked. (we know you did that on purpose W., not every one is stupid enough to not see your little way of "associating the 2" without actually saying that Iraq attacked the USA.

Basically I left the USA with no reservations because the government is corrupt, 911 was an inside job, and the constitution has been relegated to toilet paper.

FUCK THE USA
FUCK it
FUCK MY COUNTRY OF BIRTH I CAN NOT IMAGINE EVER LIVING THERE AGAIN
I AM MORE FREE IN FRANCE THAN I EVER WAS IN THE USA (I have long hair, in Illinois a big no no for men according to the cops, well here it is no problem at all.
I have French nationality and I ask myself why I even give a damn about the USA, then I remember how much influence it has on the rest of the world.
LEAVE THE USA IN DROVES! START THE BRAIN DRAIN, LEAVE WHILE YOU STILL CAN!
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Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
79. Tell us more about how to live in France -- I would love to. What steps do you
have to take? Do you speak French well? If one only knows a little french can you get by? Do you hang with other ex-pats? How did you get French nationality? You can email me directly if you want.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. i hang
with other expats when they live nearby, I have a couple of French buddies and a buddy from Wales that lives here. I got nationality the easiest way, I married a French woman. We met in the USA and after a while together we decided to go to France and give the married life a try.

Knowing French is a big plus, essential to get nationality but not to get a "titre de séjour" (green card). Do not forget that they speak English in Ireland, that Scotland is much more to the left than England with their decentralized government. Also English is one of 2 official languages in the Netherlands. Once you get nationality from an EU country you have the right to live in any of the 27 without filing paperwork.

Do not forget that you do not need to come to Europe. There is part of France in South America called la Guyane Française. There are also the islands of Guadeloupe, Martinique and Sainte Martin (which is half Dutch.

If you can find a job you can get your green card through your job. If you have an MA in any subject you can get a tempory 2 to 6 year job as a TA in the university, you work 12 hours a week for 24 weeks of the year for 1200 euros per month after tax.
Salaries are lower but tuition is 200 euros a year for your kids at the universities, health insurance is nationalized, the trains are nationalized,

Good luck and I will look for more specifics for you.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. Well
I wasn't a conspiricist nor a skeptic, but after reading this blurb doubts that have festered in my mind are increasing. By way of comparison I do not recall many actually CIA people coming out and saying JFK/RFK/MLK were conspiracies.

I wonder now if maybe there shouldn't be more attention paid.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
31. Excellent read!
Thanks for posting this! It is unfortunate that any real discussion on this gets sent to the dungeon if it appears on GD. I am glad to see this here AND I found it because it is on the home page with 63 recommendations.

Recommended.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. I never for a minute thought the Bush Administration was clean on 9-11.
On Day 1 my wife & I had been at different locations & when we met that evening we found we were both on the same page, convinced it was a false-flag, Reichstagsfeuer incident.

So K&R. Time for this stuff to start emerging from the fruitcake forum.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Jackpine Radical

The TRUTH wil come out, sooner or later, even when it wil take some time..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native langugage
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Diclotican, Welcome to DU!


:hi:

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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #38
81. DemReadingDU

Thank you;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native langugage
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
78. Ja, det kan vi håbe.
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 04:29 PM by Jackpine Radical
Og velkommen til DU. De skal finde mange venner her.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #78
80. Jackpine Radical

Ja, vi kan håpe, at sannheten før eller siden vil komme ut;). Hyggelig at du til og med skriver på norsk;) I alle fall ett slags norsk;). Takk for velkomsten til DU også; Mange hyggelige mennesker her;)

Thank you, we can hope that the truth are coming out, sooner or later;). Nice to se that you even vrite in norwigian, some norwigian then;). Than you for the welcome to DU, have been meeting some verry nice people here lately:)

I allmoust lost hope in US, but here I find some hope.. That the "old US" somehow are surviving, and wil come back after Bush exesses are been open to the public.. Maybe not today, or tomorrow but when it comes, it wil come and many, many american who today are "nice busnicks" wil be verry sorry for theyr suport of mr Bush...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. I figured a public display of my terrible Norwegian
might make you feel better abut your English. ;)
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Jackpine Radical
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 01:46 PM by Diclotican
Then thank you;). Feeling that mutch better now:)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish not my native language

ps,for the record, you wasent that bad in Norwigian;).
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
33. So many things don't add up - for me the main things
are the actions of * while the attack was ongoing, and as another thread pointed out today, the actions - or inaction, of the Secret Service. He sat there for, I believe, 7 minutes - it was the SS's duty to get him out of there, and fast. And then he stayed there, after reading the fascinating "My Pet Goat", for quite a while after, endangering himself, and an entire elementary school.

The other thing that told me there was more to this than meets the eye, is the fact that the administration did not WANT any investigation, in fact, did everything they could to stymie it, * and Darth did not WANT to testify under oath, and had to be questioned together.

Those two things are enough for me to know something isn't right, and should be enough for anyone with any common sense to know something isn't right. I don't know what DID happen, but I know it's not what we were told, and I agree that the investigation was a joke, that the administration is hiding SOMETHING, and I just hope that the truth does come out some day.
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emmadoggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
53. I am on the exact same page as you.
I have no idea what really happened. The things that you stated are the two things that, all alone, make it stink for me too.

There's more to the story - a LOT more. And we're not getting the answers. WHY? If they have nothing to hide then why have they hidden and obfuscated so much?? It only makes sense if they are guilty of SOMETHING in SOME WAY connected to it all. And as we all know, there is almost nothing that these sick f*cks aren't capable of.

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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. Recommended
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 07:00 PM by rAVES
There is no doubt in my mind that 9/11 was LIHOP at least.

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gulfbreeze Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
37. I just read The New Pearl Harbor by David Ray Griffin
and am getting ready to read his other book Debunking 9/11 Debunking. This "The New Pearl Harbor" is an incredible book that breaks everything down making it easier to follow and understand the discrepancies between the gov and evidence to the contrary. I've studied history. I know how horrible our government can be but I'm just sick to death that it could go this far. I'm so hoping there will be some sort of critical mass awakening.

Another web site I just happened to come across, http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html is also incredible. It's like one of the pilots said, "after 9/11 most of us were in some sort of a fog and didn't question the story".
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
56. The thing about 9/11 that baffles me...
...is that IF, let's say in some way, shape, or form the Administration was involved in the execution of 9/11, since they have gotten away with it for this long, doesn't that mean that the other top elite globalists would know about it?

On top of that, wouldn't the friggin' Secret Service or CIA or NSA or DIA or... wouldn't one of them know about it?

So given that, the only way they would have gotten away with it this long would be if the others that knew were in on it or wouldn't have benefited from exposing the conspiracy.

Now all that being said, if the 9/11 cover up is finally blown and revealed, who in the power structure wants that to happen, and for what benefit?

I can't figure that last question out, even hypothetically.

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waterdancer Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #37
66. Alan Miller's website
Alan Miller, the author of this editorial put together the site http://patriotsquestion911.com based on statements either on the record in published interviews with those individuals and/or interviews which he conducted personaly with them.

The following listed individuals' statements calling into question aspects the 9/11 Commission Report:

110+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
220+ Engineers and Architects
50+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
160+ Professors Question 9/11
190+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
100+ Entertainment and Media Professionals

is to my mind one of the strongest arguments that we need a new investigation.
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dickbearton Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks
I think we need to know about the mystery plane
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
42. Thanks babylonsister !

Rec !
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
45. oh yoo-hoo! KICK & RECOMMENDED! n/t
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praeclarus Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
46. where are the CT debunkers ...
... the all the questions have been answered and the 9/11 Report
is the holy grail crowd?

Eh?

Crickets.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. the cloak of secrecy
one day it will be lifted

can you imagine the reaction of people once they know the real truth about 9/11?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. I wish I were as optimistic as you. But I've lived through the JFK, MLK and RFK assassinations,
and the truth STILL hasn't come out about those events.

Maybe the truth of everything will come out someday, but I'm pretty sure I won't live long enough to see it. The best we can do, imho, is to keep the questions alive and pass the questions down to our descendents. Maybe my great-great-grandchildren will finally uncover the truth...

sw
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Good point - like Jim Garrison (played by Kevin Costner) said about the JFK case:
All these documents are yours -- the people's property -- you pay for it, but because the government considers you children who might be too disturbed to face this reality, because you might lynch those involved, you cannot see these documents for another 75 years. I'm in my 40s, so I'll have shuffled off this mortal coil by then, but I'm already telling my 8-year-old son to keep himself physically fit so that one glorious September morning in 2038 he can walk into the National Archives and find out what the CIA and the FBI knew. They may even push it back then. It may become a generational affair, with questions passed down from father to son, mother to daughter, in the manner of the ancient runic bards. Someday somewhere, someone might find out the damned Truth. Or we might just build ourselves a new Government like the Declaration of Independence says we should do when the old one ain't working -- maybe a little farther out West.
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
50. K & R for truth.
BCCI, the put options, Pakistan's ISI involvement in financing, the 9/12 Bin Laden exodus from America, freefall towers, no video or photo of a plane at the pentagon.

Let your ego be shattered by the truth, and watch as all the pieces fall into place.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #50
59. Yes, soulcore! The truth will set us free
but first we have to endure the sights of what really went down in US history and what is still going on. Some days it makes me reel with horror and disgust and with fear for all of humanity.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
58. Thanks DU Admins for allowing this 9/11 thread to Greatest.
Thanks to all who have recommended it and put it at the top of the Greatest Page were thousands will see it.

This is the kind of thing that needs to be discussed. You want to stop the war and prevent another war in Iran? Get to the truth of 9/11. It is all about what happened that day -- and what happened isn't at all what we've been told.

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DiehardLiberal Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. You are right, Beam!
All the things that don't make sense to us now, will become much more clear if 9/11 is thoroughly investigated. There is something very wrong with the whole way the government has handled 9/11 and the way it has used it to undermine our freedom. I support getting to the bottom of this rotten barrel of fish ASAP! Until then, we are at the precipice of losing everything we hold dear.

DL
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
60. Whoa. Massive K&R
This is big. But ... what with W. moving to seal all records of this administration (and that of his father) (and beyond just moving to do such, didn't he already sign it into law?) ... will we ever *really* know the truth?

"However, McGovern returned the award<2> in 2006 in protest of the current George W. Bush Administration’s advocacy and use of torture."

*applauds vigorously*
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
61. 911 Press For Truth is a great piece on the 911 widows call for
the 911 Commission to be established. The video should be watched by all. The following links are helpful in getting more info.
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/911commission2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11:_Press_for_Truth
http://www.911pressfortruth.com/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3979568779414136481
When watching the video use the scrollbar to "fast forward" to the 1 hour and 3 minute mark. The $100,000 money transfer is discussed at that point.
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
62. "Error: You don't have enough posts to recommend a thread"
Oh well, maybe later.

This is what I keep telling people, and I get laughed at, so I tell someone else.
And I WON'T shut up!

It's pretty obvious what happened on 9/11, anyone who believes the official fairytale is a "conspiracy theorist", that story wouldn't pass a middle school science class. How many people do you know who can prep a high security building for demolition, or keep NORAD from interfering with the scapegoat?
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
64. I think anyone who fails to believe that there's a HIGH probability
that billions of dollars a month are squandered on dirty gov't dealings, international military crap that has no real purpose (not limited to the "war"), and outright theft, is totally naive and fooling themselves...

this whole F*****G system is scandalous and the ones who try and stop the theft are repeatedly shut up, ignored, mocked, or 'silenced'.

What a horrible couple decades are country has (not) seen.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
65. First time I'm among lots of people who don't deny the obvious...
Guys, that is so cool. Finally!!! Relief from this cognitive dissonance, at last.




More important 9/11 documentaries here: <http://tv-links.co.uk/listings/9/4752>

Plenty of links for connecting the dots. Haven't even checked them all out myself.



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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #65
69. Welcome to DU Kaleko
:toast:
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. Cheers right back atcha, Lochloosa and everyone in the Underground!
You keep my spirit willing to face these enormous amounts of toxic disinformation crap wrapped in the US flag.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
67. One thing that does bother me--
---one of them is going for the "no plane hit the Pentagon" nonsense. Personally, I think that's government disinformation designed to discredit LIHOP.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #67
71. Don't want this to be a subthread, so I'll just say
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 08:01 AM by truth2power
no "passenger" plane hit the Pentagon, IMHO. This is not the place to discuss that because it'll be deleted as a subthread.

In fact, I don't discuss that anywhere here because the jackals come out in force and there's no point in rehashing what's been said for six years now. I go elsewhere if I want a reasonable discussion on that.

Inductive, rather than deductive reasoning.


edit> Geez! can't spell jackal.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Truth2power, hi there.
"I don't discuss that anywhere here because the jackals come out in force..."

What do you mean? Sorry, I'm new here.

You said: "I go elsewhere if I want a reasonable discussion on that."

Where? Can you give a link? I'm researching 9/11 for a movie project. Thanks.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #67
83. That's the way I see it. They invent an overthtop claim to discredit ALL of it.
.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
68. k+r
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