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US military tells Jack Bauer: Cut out the torture scenes ... or else!

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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 07:40 PM
Original message
US military tells Jack Bauer: Cut out the torture scenes ... or else!
In the hugely popular television series 24, federal agent Jack Bauer always gets his man, even if he has to play a little rough. Suffocating, electrocuting or drugging a suspect are all in a day's work. As Bauer - played by the Emmy Award winner Kiefer Sutherland - tells one baddie: " You are going to tell me what I want to know - it's just a matter of how much you want it to hurt."

But while 24 draws millions of viewers, it appears some people are becoming a little squeamish. The US military has appealed to the producers of 24 to tone down the torture scenes because of the impact they are having both on troops in the field and America's reputation abroad. Forget about Abu Ghraib, forget about Guantanamo Bay, forget even that the White House has authorised interrogation techniques that some classify as torture, that damned Jack Bauer is giving us a bad name.

The United States Military Academy at West Point yesterday confirmed that Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan recently travelled to California to meet producers of the show, broadcast on the Fox channel. He told them that promoting illegal behaviour in the series - apparently hugely popular among the US military - was having a damaging effect on young troops.

According to the New Yorker magazine, Gen Finnegan, who teaches a course on the laws of war, said of the producers: "I'd like them to stop. They should do a show where torture backfires... The kids see it and say, 'If torture is wrong, what about 24'?
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2264632.ece
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Whats it with the right wing blaming TV when the real culprit is in the white house
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. It's not the right wing but many of the trainers of Interrogation Teams
which consist of young adults. Believe it or not, young adults are still impressionable to "flashy" presentations, such as, torture works and makes you look virile and all-powerful.

The experts know that it's almost impossible to "train out" bogus mind-zaps that FANTASY portrays in movies and TV shows.

For example, many soldiers have been wounded and/or killed because they did not embrace the concepts of "cover and concealment" with regard to small arms fire. They BELIEVED all those bull shit John Wayne movies where everyone stands out IN THE OPEN to fire their weapons. :thumbsdown: The foregoing is small scale compared to the damage that becoming "turned onto torture" can do to the psyches of these young adult intelligence officers, not to mention the international damage to our already tainted image thanks to the continuation of GIT-MO. :(
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't Upset the Rustic Sheep
By seeing some guy getting his testicles crushed
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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Don't piss of Jack Bauer
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. perhaps, just perhaps...
Edited on Mon Feb-12-07 07:49 PM by jakem
Jack Bauer should give them what they want, and spend a full hour discussing how torture is not appropriate for the purposes that the government is employing it.

Maybe he should have a conversation with the (fictional) VP about the moral outrage that such acts should raise in any human being.

Maybe he should take a stand against torture after all-





And maybe our own fictional government would get the message...
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. I presume there is no doubt whatsoever the "baddie" is in fact a "baddie"
The problem with the torture policy of the U.S. -- *cough gag cough* -- is we torture anybody on the flimsiest of suspicion.

OTOH, if 24 is showing torture as an effective method, this gives people reason to believe that it's worth it, as long as the info is obtained. Torture is not effective. Those with the best info never give it up. If James Bond, the "goodie" won't divulge info, what makes people think a "baddie" will divulge info. :shrug:

I don't watch 24. I saw one episode and it couldn't hold my interest. I find the controversy surrounding the program quite interesting, though.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Right! "we torture anybody on the flimsiest of suspicion..."
It has also occurred to me that it's possible they could make things UP, to give them a reason to attack a place or people, and claim that they got the information from someone they "had" to torture. You could do ANYTHING, then, following that model, and claim someone who obviously wouldn't be in his right mind told you that, and no one could do anything about it.

Blank check to go anywhere, do anything, kill anyone, all claiming you had to because one of the prisoners told you there was some kind of danger there, and you're doing it to "save Americans."

These Republics must really feel they've got the world by the ass, as they can literally call their own shots without any fear of retaliation, or loss of power. They are truly beyond the reach of the law. They have connived, plotted, schemed until they've found a way to do it.

"24" is amazingly stupid, but also very underhanded. I hope one day the creator will be publicly viewed as the worthless trash he really is.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. We torture to get bogus confessions out of them so we can convict
them as terrorists on "secret" coercive evidence.

The plan is evil but PERFECT in it's simplicity and air-tight effectiveness. :(
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I second that
Edited on Tue Feb-13-07 05:35 AM by Briar
and recommend this excellent article (which I suspect the Indie used):

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_mayer

Torture is the resort of the vicious and sadistic - enjoyed by those who love cruelty and simply want to inflict it on others. No wonder it's so beloved of the right wing! Revealing little quote from Surnow in the above article:

...During three decades as a journeyman screenwriter, Surnow grew increasingly conservative. He “hated welfare,” which he saw as government handouts. Liberal courts also angered him. He loved Ronald Reagan’s “strength” and disdained Jimmy Carter’s “belief that people would be nice to us just because we were humane. That never works.” He said of Reagan, “I can hardly think of him without breaking into tears. I just felt Ronald Reagan was the father that this country needed. . . . He made me feel good that I was in his family.”


Islamic extremists circulate homemade DVDs of atrocities - our lot circulate glossily produced and culturally acclaimed DVDs of 24:

"Although reports of abuses by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, have angered much of the world, the response of Americans has been more tepid. Finnegan attributes the fact that “we are generally more comfortable and more accepting of this,” in part, to the popularity of “24,” which has a weekly audience of fifteen million viewers, and has reached millions more through DVD sales. The third expert at the meeting was Tony Lagouranis, a former Army interrogator in the war in Iraq. He told the show’s staff that DVDs of shows such as “24” circulate widely among soldiers stationed in Iraq. Lagouranis said to me, “People watch the shows, and then walk into the interrogation booths and do the same things they’ve just seen.” He recalled that some men he had worked with in Iraq watched a television program in which a suspect was forced to hear tortured screams from a neighboring cell; the men later tried to persuade their Iraqi translator to act the part of a torture “victim,” in a similar intimidation ploy. Lagouranis intervened: such scenarios constitute psychological torture."


But hey - it's just fiction - no harm done!

"In fact, many prominent conservatives speak of “24” as if it were real. John Yoo, the former Justice Department lawyer who helped frame the Bush Administration’s “torture memo”—which, in 2002, authorized the abusive treatment of detainees—invokes the show in his book “War by Other Means.” He asks, “What if, as the popular Fox television program ‘24’ recently portrayed, a high-level terrorist leader is caught who knows the location of a nuclear weapon?” Laura Ingraham, the talk-radio host, has cited the show’s popularity as proof that Americans favor brutality. “They love Jack Bauer,” she noted on Fox News. “In my mind, that’s as close to a national referendum that it’s O.K. to use tough tactics against high-level Al Qaeda operatives as we’re going to get.” Surnow once appeared as a guest on Ingraham’s show; she told him that, while she was undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer, “it was soothing to see Jack Bauer torture these terrorists, and I felt better.” Surnow joked, “We love to torture terrorists—it’s good for you!”

Oops - forgot to mention James Wolcott's excellent advice regarding this revolting programme: don't watch it.



http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/blogs/wolcott



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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. These people are completely lost. Beyond redemption. What a shame.
It's exactly as if they are from a completely different world.

I really hope their side will never win. They just don't deserve to have power. They can't handle it. They're sick.
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. But they have support
That is the really frightening thing. Finnegan actually takes credit for America's failure to be outraged at the revelations of torture as the rest of the world has been. It's thanks to him, he thinks. Too many people think that the torture is effective and justified, too many like to see "our" boys taking revenge and "making them pay" at least. Too few are ready to protest. The critical mass that would make this whole policy electorally damaging to those promoting it just isn't there. It isn't just that deluded recruits can't wait to do a Jack Bauer on the "bad guys". It's that too many people have been desensitised to the inhumanity and bestiality of the tactics employed in the "war on terror". The rot has spread far beyond these criminals.
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