Stars n' Stripes on Soldiers Speaking Out

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=16649

As frustration over their lengthening deployment grows among troops in Iraq, soldiers are smacking head-on into limits on their public speech.

Last week, several 3rd Infantry Division soldiers offered pointed criticisms of decisions by their chain of command. One called for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Afterward, 3rd ID public affairs officers based at Baghdad International Airport barred a Stars and Stripes reporter from interviewing soldiers on the subject. They said there already has been too much negative publicity on the issue.

--snip--

“Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing Pentagon officials, generals, politicians, and people at the Defense Department continue to say that the morale of the troops is still high, when every single person knows full well that it isn’t,” Erica Herrera of Illesheim, Germany, whose husband is an Apache Longbow pilot with the 6/6 Cavalry at Balad, said in an e-mail to Stars and Stripes.

“Now we are looking at possibly almost a year away without our husbands, friends and fathers. The country is in a sad state of affairs when you could go work at McDonald’s and get treated better than someone who is out defending the liberties and freedoms of our country.”

“It’s time,” said Gullen, of the 864th Engineer Battalion, “someone hears what the soldiers have to say about all this mess.”

[Cha]

1. Yea! Soldiers be heard!!

:kick:

[mainer]

2. These are not young draftees

Many of these soldiers are from the reserves -- they're older men and women who have careers, who may own businesses, who are accustomed to being heard and being in authority. They come from a civilian mindset. They're not young men who've been indoctrinated into wearing blinders and following orders.

It's just one of the consequences of the all-volunteer army. They think for themselves.

[Alfalfa T. Coleridge]

3. RE: These are not young draftees

"It's just one of the consequences of the all-volunteer army. They think for themselves."

Good point. Makes one wonder when the US will re-instate the draft. If the US will fight major wars in multiple theaters concurrently, the draft will become necessary.

At least the unemployment stats would improve.

"Uncle Sam wants YOU for pre-emptive war!"

ATC

[Jack Rabbit]

4. Welcome to DU, Alfalfa

I have to disagree. Just as in Vietnam-era draft, the soldiers fighting in Iraq are a cross-section of the lower classes. In the sixties, those whose families had power and influence could get cushy national guard assignments -- and might not even have had to report for duty -- and particular intelligent young men got college deferments; to get one of those, it helped to be able to afford college in the first place.

The term today is "economic draftee". For these soldiers, the military is a way out.

Since it is a cross-section of America's lower classes, one can expect to find many who are bright and articulate. They were in Vietnam, they are in Iraq. They spoke out in Vietnam. They will speak out in Iraq.

[Alfalfa T. Coleridge]

5. Thank you, Jack

I'm not sure we disagree. I'm just observing the potential shortage of personnel - the Army in particular - that will occur if we try to fight simultaneously in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Liberia, and everywhere else Bush and the Neocons want to establish the Pax Americana. Soldiers expressing dissent is not a new phenomenon.

You're right to suggest that the economics/demographics of the situation will be the same as that of the Vietnam era - money will always buy privilege.

ATC

[mainer]

6. economic draftees vs. speak-out civilians

"I have to disagree. Just as in Vietnam-era draft, the soldiers fighting in Iraq are a cross-section of the lower classes."

I'm not so sure about that. One of the soldiers killed from Maine (his death was featured in Time magazine) was a 50-year-old Reserves soldier who had a successful civilian career, and tried to leave the Reserves just after 9/11, but was told they weren't allowing anyone to resign at that point. I know a number of Reserves folks (including doctors and nurses) who were suckered into the "one weekend a month" commitment, and perhaps thought it would be interesting or exciting to play soldier part-time. They aren't economic draftees.

[Tinoire]

7. Jack, I'm not sure I agree with your generalization

My parents were rather high on the scale and I spent 20 years in the military as a non-Com.

In my immediate circle of friends/co-workers I had a girl from one of the wealthiest families in Beaumont, Texas, Leon Uris' nephew, the son of a congressman, sons and doctors of physicians, lawyers, and well-to-do businessmen.

It all depends what MOS you're talking about. I won't even talk about the officer ranks where many of them are simply carrying on the 'fine' tradition of "we've had an officer in the military since the Civil War".

I'll agree that the majority of combat arms do come from the lower classes but today's new army, sold under the slickest packaging, attracts/lures in all sorts. I'd venture to say that most of the kids in the intel, legal, medical are middle-class.

[LiberalFighter]

19. How about the marriage factor?

What would be the percentage of those in Vietnam that were not married vs. this war?

I noticed in WWI that they had exemptions or could list the reason they felt they should be exempt. Taking care of parents or wife would be sufficient.

[LiberalLibra]

8. mainer: What does not "been indoctrinated into wearing blinders"......

....have to do with anything??? Does that also mean that people not in the military who have gone to work for a company can be treated without respect or rights because it's the "consequences of the all-volunteer" work force?? Same concept, either we all have the "freedom of speech" or all of us loose that 1st Amendment.

[mainer]

9. I am not arguing freedom of speech with you

(How on earth did you gather that I'm against freedom of speech from my post?)

But I am pointing out that there seems to be a difference in mindset between the career soldier who enlists out of high school and is subject to, and accustomed to, years of following orders, versus the Reserves soldier who has a civilian life outside of the military and is accustomed to making his own decisions regarding business and work.

Career soldiers have been taught that, indeed, they DON'T have the freedom of speech to criticize their military superiors. So they may be more reluctant to do so because they have to live with the consequences.

Reserve soldiers may enjoy a measure of authority in their civilian lives -- it's tougher to make them buckle under to military authority if they think the orders they get are senseless or plain stupid.

[Pallas180]

13. I agree with Mainer, plus the middle class has been brought up with

and has believed in freedom of speech, rights, and very
likely would continue to speak out as their American right.

I'm surprised to hear that there are 50 year olds in the
reserves. This is frightening. I knew about Rumsfeld orders
that no one can get out...but making them stay a year, tired
and worn out, after they have done their job and well at that
is rotten.

And there isn't going to be any relief troops for them unless
that dimson goes to the UN and lets them take over - and the
neocons want all the spoils for themselves so they dont want
to go under UN authority. France, Germany, the rest of the
UN members will not send replacement troops unless its under
the authority of the UN. Do you blame them, after dimson's viscious
behavior toward France, Canada, and snubbing Schroeder even before
the war. He really thinks he's in a John Wayne movie.

We have to get rid of this neocon government.

[Ilsa]

10. The Army of One campaign...

I wonder if the Army thinks this marketing scheme is backfiring on them? They have persons in the Army with individual mindsets, and the willingness and ability to think critically, unlike the Sims women (et al) of Florida (or wherever).

Good for them! Demand to be heard!

[Lisa]

11. an anti-war ex-Marine I know ...

... who has been hanging around with his lawyer pals, points out that a "Freedom of Speech" lawsuit by military personnel right now is the last thing this administration needs.

Then he laughed rather grimly, and said, "I hope the ACLU is paying attention."

(If those who are reportedly leaning on the soldiers who let their feelings be known in the Kofman story become heavy-handed ... )

[drewb]

12. Glad I got out of the Reserves when I did...

No wonder I only made it to E5, all those smart assed comments and all that free thinking... Oh well...

[Pallas180]

14. Did you notice that Private Lynch thanked everyone but dimson?

:bounce:

[Pallas180]

15. And they might be holding them in Iraq expecting them to go & fight

again in Syrria or Iran. Those are the noises they're making.
I feel sorry for those people who got caught up in this jerk's
dream of empire

[leontrotsky]

16. freedom of speech

Humm?

We invaded Iraq to "give" them freedom. But our own soldiers can't speak their minds?

[newyawker99]

17. Hi drewb!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Leftist78]

21. The irony is killing me

Then again, our military has a long tradition of silencing dissent. You just have to understand the way our military leaders think.

We couldn't actually allow them to question their mission could we? The grunts can't know that their mission isn't really about protecting America. If we let the soldiers have free speech, the next thing you know we'll be allowing women and black people to vote. All this democracy is giving me a headache.

[Wonder]

18. Damn SEVERAL soldiers better be careful

too much "anti-american" criticism like that isn't going to go over very well with the majority in the infantry. Could get themselves killed by "friendly fire".

[teryang]

20. Rumdum couldn't even find a Chief for the Army

...from active duty General officers. It's not just the rank and file that have a problem with this administration.