Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Newsweek: Bush at the Tipping Point (Info on Murtha's Decision)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:31 AM
Original message
Newsweek: Bush at the Tipping Point (Info on Murtha's Decision)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10118733/site/newsweek/

As friends describe it, Rep. Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania had been searching his soul for months, seeking guidance on what to do in Congress about Iraq. "I think he was going through what we Catholics call a 'long night of the soul'," said Rep. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut. In 1974, Democrat Murtha had become the first Vietnam veteran elected to the House. A decorated Marine from the mountainous "Deer Hunter" country east of Pittsburgh, he had always been a down-the-line hawk and a favorite of the Pentagon generals. Now, at 73, he was the dean of the House on defense spending: a gruff, taciturn pasha receiving supplicants from his perch in the "Pennsylvania corner" of the floor—last row, aisle seat, surrounded by equally beefy cronies. "I like to do things behind the scenes," Murtha explained to NEWSWEEK.

But, by last week, Murtha had decided to come out of his corner in spectacular fashion. The result was a turning point—and a low point—in the war at home over the war in Iraq. Reassembling its campaign-style war-room apparatus, the White House went on the offensive against Democrats, who in turn were emboldened by polls that showed a cratering of the Bush presidency. After months of debate over the question of how the country got into Iraq—who knew what and when about the absence of WMD—the political center of gravity suddenly shifted to another question: how we get out.

Murtha was the one-man tipping point. Initially a strong supporter of the conflict, he had voted for it and the money to pay for it. But on his last trip to Iraq, he had become convinced not only that the war was unwinnable, but that the continued American military presence was making matters far worse. "We're the target, we're part of the problem," he told news-week. Back in Washington, he resumed his weekly pilgrimage to Walter Reed Army Medical Center, visiting severely wounded casualties in rehab and agonizing over what he saw there. "I think those visits affected him deeply," said DeLauro. In a long chat with an Irish colleague, he talked about his congressional hero and mentor, another blue-collar Irishman, Thomas P. (Tip) O'Neill. No liberal on defense, in 1967 O'Neill had stunned President Lyndon B. Johnson by telling him that the Vietnam War had become a lost cause. Now, Murtha mused, it was his turn to confront a president with harsh truths.

Which was precisely what the Democratic leadership wanted Murtha to do. A close ally, Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, was anxious to open a second axis of attack on Iraq—and was aware of his growing antagonism toward the war. The two met and agreed that he would make his case in private to the party conference. After that, on his own, he would introduce a resolution calling for withdrawal of troops from Iraq "at the earliest practicable date." Pelosi and the other liberals would keep their distance, while their own Marine charged up the Hill. Framed by long rows of American flags at a press conference, he denounced the Iraq war as a "flawed policy wrapped in an illusion."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. He's one hell of a patriot!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Fineman is still Fineman
and still slants his copy (which is what won him Media Whore of the Year not long back):

On the ground, the shrewder analysts say, it's not entirely clear that U.S. policy has "failed." The TV news, not to mention Al-Jazeera, doesn't regularly summarize the stunning changes in Iraq, many of them morally and politically worthy. Saddam Hussein is gone and awaiting trial. Schools, hospitals and other institutions are operating in most parts of the country.

Voters have adopted a constitution. And even many Sunnis are gathering in political parties that are maneuvering in advance of the Dec. 15 national elections. After the elections, the plan is that Coalition forces will use the growing number of capable Iraqi units to "clear, hold and build" a peaceful Iraq.

MSRNC and Newsweek- still spewing right wing propaganda, even when they're ostensibly trying to write a story about a "tipping point."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Thanks for noting Fineman's shilling. I had seen that, too.
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 05:58 PM by Neil Lisst
I read his article last night, and even saved it, thinking I might post it here. But I didn't like that passage, and didn't want to be putting it up for that reason. It's almost as if he wrote the story, then added this craptastic section to mollify the "but what about the good news?" crowd.

The good news is mainly mass qualities of manure, with a healthy dose of delusion.

The measure is not how many schools are operating, but whether the Iraqis are ready to take over the job that American soldiers are doing.

It has been 2.5 years since Saddam was toppled. Iraqis could have been and should have been trained and ready to take over from Americans a year later. Time to throw this kid into the lake and make him learn to swim, old school.

They WON'T stand UP until we stand DOWN.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Careful there
I think there've been some hints at least if not actual reports that our "training" has been illusionary too. I think it's gone about as well as the KB&R supplying of our troops -- lotsa money for KB&R and who cares or will hold them accountable for what they deliver, or don't?

Too, we've made all kinds of errors along the way that I haven't even paid all that much attention to. Dismantling the army was a huge mistake, but in the meantime Iraqi police and many other organizations that we've worked with have been infiltrated. Insurgents love to kill people who collaborate with the U.S., ya know? That's kind of a disincentive as well.

So you may actually be advocating throwing the kid with no arms into the lake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Ooh, Fineman smackdown:
"An Ohio backbencher named Jean Schmidt, eager to demonstrate coldbloodedness, was given time by GOP leaders to relate a phone call from a Marine whom she said wanted "to send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do."

Which brings up another point...it appears the GOPers threw her to the wolves...for what pupose,though?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Maybe just maybe the repubs
didn't know what schmidt would hit the fan?

They gotten away with shite for so long..I would think one would get use to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Just finished reading, and my eyes popped at that smackdown
Edited on Mon Nov-21-05 04:19 AM by VolcanoJen
Yowch, Fineman! Nice work. :thumbsup:

Excellent article all around. I wasn't aware that Pelosi had coordinated with Murtha, and that the Dems "holding back" while Murtha presented his plan was part of the stratgy.

And, as to your original question. I think Schmidt was thrown to the wolves by the GOP leadership because somebody had to float a swiftboat attack to see if it would work. They used Schmidt because only political junkies have ever heard of her, and because she's the newest Member, and because she was probably eager as bloody hell to carry their water.

They weren't convinced a swiftboating would work, but they had to give it a try. That risk bit them in the ass in ways they never anticipated.

My take, anyway. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. insert obligatory rw talking points here...
On the ground, the shrewder analysts say, it's not entirely clear that U.S. policy has "failed." The TV news, not to mention Al-Jazeera, doesn't regularly summarize the stunning changes in Iraq, many of them morally and politically worthy. Saddam Hussein is gone and awaiting trial. Schools, hospitals and other institutions are operating in most parts of the country. Voters have adopted a constitution. And even many Sunnis are gathering in political parties that are maneuvering in advance of the Dec. 15 national elections.


NO ONE deigns to mention the FACT that we have installed an islamic republic there... that in fact, everything, seems to be WORSE than before the invasion and only getting worse.

those who love to tout the pottery barn 'rule' don't seem to understand that first you have to STOP breaking things before we can even tally up what we owe, which means IMMEDIATE (i.e. ASAP) REDEPLOYMENT.

from one shipmate to another, SEMPER FI Mr. Murtha :toast:

peace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Awesome post....
I just have one comment: it appears that this war has reached a turning point. No doubt, it's been building for quite a while.

But with Mr. Murtha appearing on the scene, I just have this vision of the levees which broke in New Orleans a while back.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Check out the poll on
that page, too. From 14584 responses ..74% say we "should pull out!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Currently: Pull out: 74%, Stay 21%, Don't know 5%, 15416 responses
Should U.S. troops begin an immediate withdrawal from Iraq?

* 15416 responses
Yes 74%
No 21%
I don't know 5%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. I literally got goosebumps watching Murtha & the House erupting at Schmidt
Murtha's press conference was absolutely jaw-dropping, as was the eruption in the House when "Mean Jean" gave her speech. I was saying prayers of gratitude....

I think the tide has turned, folks. I think we just watched it happen on C-SPAN.

Hekate :wow:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Currently: 70% Yes, 24% No, 6% Don't know, with 43565 responses
Should U.S. troops begin an immediate withdrawal from Iraq?

* 43565 responses

Yes 70%
No 24%
I don't know 6%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC