H-1B: Patriotic or treasonous?

[Renew Deal]

One side of controversy calls for limits on visas; counterargument is that skills shortage justifies them

By Ephraim Schwartz
May 06, 2005

The H-1B visa is either a betrayal of American IT workers or a necessity of the country’s high-tech future, and in a fiery debate both sides are flaming about what should be done.

For the high-tech community, what Bill Gates said about hiring foreign nationals under the H-1B visa program is a white-hot issue. “The whole idea behind the H-1B thing is, ‘Don’t let too many smart people come into the country,’ ” Gates said during a panel discussion at the Library of Congress two weeks ago, opining that if he had his way he would eliminate the quota for H-1B visas, currently set at 65,000. The demand for a more open H-1B policy -- and the debate over whether the United States has enough “smart people” of its own -- goes to the heart of the conflict raging between high-tech employees and employers.

Just to set the record straight, the government does not say anything about intelligence in its definition of the H-1B visa. According to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the new name for the Immigration and Naturalization Service, H-1B is a “nonimmigrant classification used by an alien who will be employed temporarily in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of distinguished merit and ability.”
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http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/05/06/19NNh1b_1.html?source=NLC-TB2005-05-06

[enki23]

1. they had to specify "fashion model of distinguished merit and ability?"

.

[TahitiNut]

2. It's horribly abused ... especially in IT/MIS.

Silicon Valley was LOADED with H1-B visa workers ... even as thousands and thousands of citizens were being laid off. As one small example, I temporarily managed a group of nine software engineers providing technical support for a mainframe systems product. Three of my staff members were working on H1-B visas, including one who engaged in the most reprehensible surreptitious back-stabbing and plagiaristic work habits. Yet senior management was pressuring me to terminate two other staff members, one of which was targeted because she was openly lesbian. It was one of the most disgusting situations I've encountered.

[Coastie for Truth]

3. H1B Guest Workers Limit Opportunities for US Citizens

As long as the Business Community has H1B visas they can avoid the "nitty gritty" of nurturing American scientific talent.

Quite simply - why do all of that dirty work of paying school taxes for labs and computers, paying state taxes for state universities labs and computers and salaries and assistantships, hiring students as summer interns and co-ops.

I have no problems with the H1B visa program if and only if (iff)

1) There is an auditable, audited, credible, under oath (with penalties of perjury) paper trail of an actual shortage of people with the requisite skills. No bull crap of writing the job description so that only one guest scientist meets the artificial requirements.

2) No gender, gender orientation, race, religion, creed, national origin, age, or disability (that doesn't materially interfere with job performance) discrimination.


- No unfavorable EEOC or NLRB related lawsuits or administrative actions for some period of time against the employer.


3) Guest workers are paid the "prevailing wage" - no bull crap.

4) The standards for entering the country are the same as for entering on an "Immigrant" Visa.

5) IF THEY ARE SO VITAL - THEN THEY SHOULD BE TREATED AS POTENTIAL CITIZENS - AND LEGALLY TREATED AS "IMMIGRANTS" AND NOT "GUEST WORKERS."

6) AGAIN, IF THEY ARE SO VITAL - THEN FIRST PREFERENCE SHOULD BE GIVEN TO STUDENT VISA HOLDERS WHO ARE COMPLETING THEIR STUDIES -- AND THEY SHOULD ALSO BE TREATED AS POTENTIAL CITIZENS - AND LEGALLY TREATED AS "IMMIGRANTS" AND NOT "GUEST WORKERS" OR "STUDENTS WHO HAVE OVERSTAYED THEIR STUDENT VISA.

Yes, I am a 60 something year old PhD "techie" in Silly Valley.

[EVDebs]

4. The frauds in this visa program allow for US worker displacement

with the blessing of the US Dept of Labor. Just read the disclaimers within the DOL ETA Form 9035 for the H1B visa and see for yourself. The visa isn't supposed to allow for displacing US workers but the loopholes do.

http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/foreign/preh1bform.asp

Scroll to item #3 and note that all the 'attestations' made under penalty of perjury are eliminated, along with the ability of the DOL's Office of Inspector General to investigate the frauds, and along with any fines if frauds were discovered.

It's DOL's unspoken policy to ship US jobs overseas and to bring in foreign visa-holders to take jobs even within the U.S. US workers are not allowed to speak out about this for fear of even further consequences beyond job loss (legal action by the companies who do layoffs which limit the ability of former workers to speak about what happened to them).

Someone could bring a False Claims Act action against the government on this policy one would think and make it a class action.

[doodadem]

5. I am a recruiter

Among my specialties are Software Engineers. Sad to say, when I go looking for very technical and up-to-date skillsets (example: J2EE, .NET, Websphere, OO/client server architectures), more times than not, my candidate is going to be Indian or Chinese. They're just great at this stuff, and that's all there is to it. If Americans want these kinds of jobs, then for godsakes, GET THE SKILLS! Otherwise, quit bitching about them taking your jobs.
In my experience, it is almost impossible to get an H1-B sponsored these days though. It was easier 5 years ago. There is a tremendous amount of predjudice against these folks. Companies want to hire Americans, believe me.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. This goes back to the breaking of the "Social Contract" in the '70's

...when companies found that it paid to lay off reasonably experienced engineers and scientists, give them minimal severance, and until ERISA was passed (1974) no pension liability, and then hire newer, younger, less expensive people when times got better (I am old enough to remember the days before the 69-71 recession).

That was when the big joke was:

What does a PhD engineer say?

Fries, sir?

In every subsequent hiring wave - "Guest Workers" replaced more and more American workers.

Let me be blunt - if I had known in 1968 what I know now -- I would have bailed out of engineering and been a physician.

[elehhhhna]

7. H1-B holders are this century's indentured servants.