Christian Rebuttals to Iraqi war...

[cdb]

A devout christian friend of mine pointed me to this long but excellent article regarding the hypocrisy of right-wing christians, war and capitalism. Worth reading and contains great rationales for protesting the war, and the current administration.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0215-21.htm

[ixion]

1. It's good to hear some sense coming from the christians

I think there's a massive number of their sect that has literally lost their mind, and this article really drives home the point that we are not, as some would have us believe, bombing the hell out of the cradle of human civilization with the blessing of the Baby Jesus. :eyes:

[The Zanti Regent]

10. Where are they?

I'd like to know where these so-called left wing Christians are because I sure don't see them here in Los Angeles. All I see are 700 Club and TBN Franchises that preach a Bible that includes The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged as the main chapters.

I saw what they did to my son, my only child. Poison his mind and turn his heart to stone. He couldn't wait to go to Iraq and get even with them Sand CENSORED for 9/11 because Christian TV and his preacher said that Iraq caused it.

Well he went with the blessing of a church I despised, he took a bullet in his spine and now he has permanent residence in a VA Cemetery. He was 19, his mind poisoned by Jesus.

This Orthodox Jew will NEVER forget that Christians took my son away from me. I will never forgive them for their lies and hate. And this Orthodox Jew wants NOTHING to do with Jesus. Ever.

[tubbacheez]

2. Real Christians are with us on this point.

Too bad so many Christians-in-name-only, not to mention their throngs of deceived cult followers, have been hijacking the word "Christian".

[cdb]

3. There is also

some catholic nun who is also very outspoken against the war... I heard her on NPR. She condemns warmongering as un christian behavior, and expresses disbelief at the people who tie up war, democracy and America. Democracy is not a biblical concept.
Of course she also disapproves of same-sex marriage.

[etherealtruth]

6. Real Christians ARE us (n/t)

They have made up an ever present part of who we (progressives) are.
It pains me that evil/intolerant zealots have designated themselves "real" Christians and have tainted the label "Christian" to represent something distinctly UN-Christ like.


Rephrase upon edit

[Malva Zebrina]

4. Quakers, who are Christians, have from the beginning

been against the war and have been activist in that initiative ever since. They organized my whole community and other communities elsewhere in the state, to go out to protest the war and they continue in their efforts to this day.

most likely they will not get faith based welfare money.

[etherealtruth]

5. Catholics, too

Regardless of how you feel about the Pope---he was against the US invasion of Iraq from the beginning, as an unjust war---therefor immoral.

[Malva Zebrina]

9. actually, I think the Pope is a nice old man

and I know of his opposition to the war and how the delegation from the Vatican was refused to have a meeting with Bush to present their objection. AT that time, virtually every main stream religion came out in oppostion to the war when uit was obvious what the intentions were of Bush.(those of other lesser religions also opposed the war and I don't mean to put them in a secondary postion, but the Lutherans, the Methodists, the Baptists (not the Southern Baptist Convention, they were for the war )all published their opposition.

It meant nothing to the people of the US, and obviously meant nothing to Bush, and apparently to those who belong, they preferred Bush's brand of Christianity over that of the Pope or the leaders of their own religion assuming that 80% of the people in this country claim to be Christian. One could put forth the argument that they ignored their own leaders.

I admired and still do admire the Quakers in my community, a very small meeting of the friends, population wise, who gathered together all sorts of people of all sorts of religious beliefs and those of no religious beliefs to protest the war.

[dbeach]

7. christians who endorse bush war..

are as phony as their unelected so-called pres..

I would say bush is not a christian but rather a satanist..

he ordered execution of Karla Tucker and mocked her death..
many executions during his reign of teror as TX gubenator

[etherealtruth]

8. Touche

[Igel]

11. Two points.

One's trivial and irritating: the opening paragraph contains a nice little fallacy. It assumes that the list of those blessed is exhaustive, and may not be. It undermines her argument but not her point (the old F --> T is T line from the standard truth table).

The second is more serious and potential flamebait. His logic parallels that of the Reconstructionists for a ways, and presumably could be logically taken to the same place North takes his. Instead of saying there is a difference between church and state, it lays claim to the state as church. We must impose peaceful, blessed, Christian values on an otherwise warlike, and therefore pagan state (whatever the name it applies to itself).

In other words, the difference between RW and LW activists isn't exerting control over the state and poking largish holes in the Jeffersonian "wall of separation", but what exactly they want to shove through the holes.

My personal view is that ultimately the wall is more of a hurdle (since the point Jefferson was making was effectively dismissed before he even made it, and so trivial today as to be invisible: Thanksgiving). The state is always going to reflect the views of the majority of the people, or at least its most outspoken portion, but that part should never completely dominate it.

The church, when attacked, has martyrs; to be non-violent and therefore martyred for Christ is a worthy thing. Christ did not tell the centurion to leave the army, that his job was sinful; he said to do it well. The state, when attacked, has soldiers; to die while killing the enemy is a worthy thing. We can argue that the US government's gone over to one side too much; but the proper course of action isn't to force it to the other ludicrous extreme, but a middle road.

[indepat]

12. At least such hypocrites are sanctimonious and reichous

[patrice]

13. Catholic Worker House and Quakers are pretty active here. n/t