Breaking: Scott Peterson GUILTY

[smbolisnch]

1st degree murder Laci
2nd degree Connor
On MSNBC now....

[berner59]

1. 1st degree...

Death penalty...

[truthseeker1]

37. no death penalty in CA

[Tempest]

40. Yes there is

It was never repealed.

There's two death penalties cases going on in Kern County alone.

[truthseeker1]

46. That's weird....I thought it was repealed.

[Tempest]

59. Voters rejected repealing it

Back in 1998, I believe.

[truthseeker1]

75. oh, the timing makes sense

I was entrenched in corporate America during that time and barely had time to notice if I had to go to the bathroom. Boy, have things changed.

[ronnykmarshall]

116. It was in 1971

which removed Charles Manson and co from death row. (damn it!)

It was put back sometime in the late 70's I think.

[Seabiscuit]

155. Yes, Rose Byrd was Chief Justice on tha CA Supremes in 1971

And the repeal of the death penalty by the CA Sumpreme Court in the early 1970's led to her years-long vilification by the right wing.

I don't recall exactly when it was reinstated, but you may be right about the late 1970's.

[RummyTheDummy]

146. Calif. hasn't used it once since it became legal again

I doubt Peterson gets it, and if he does, it's highly unlikely the sentence would ever be carried out.

[Piperay]

168. Yes it has been used here

it was used in the mid to early 1990s.

[MADem]

151. I thought it was repealed, then reinstated

In the Wilson era. I believe Charles Manson was the beneficiary of the repeal, and once repealed, it was 'cruel and unusual' to put him back on Death Row.

But the state does now have a death penalty. They do not use it much, though--fewer than one a year gets the injection. Of course, now that AH-Nuld is in charge, that six hundred condemned backlog could well be eliminated, if he really wants to be just like Porgie.

[Scairp]

49. Oh yes we do

Have nearly 600 on death row at San Quinten at the moment. He should be so lucky. He will never survive in the general population anyway.

[Pachamama]

70. Nope - CA has Death Penalty when a murder is committed w/ special

circumstances....the jury agreed on the condition of special circumstances (ie. things like kidnapping etc. w/ murder is considered such) and no its up to the judge to take the jury's recommendation and decide whether to impose life or death.

[UCLA Dem]

96. yes there is. the chair.

[ronnykmarshall]

117. It's lethal injection.

We've never had "the chair", if you mean the electric chair. Prior to the current system, it was the gas chamber.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

2. So that's why

they got rid of two jurors.

[Bluebear]

5. It does seem like a lot of machinations went on

[Walt Starr]

9. This will go to appeal

Count on it.

I agree with the verdict, but dismissal of jurors will probnably result in overturning the conviction on appeal and give him a new trial.

At least he remains in prison during the interim...

[Terran]

91. Appeal is automatic in Cali, I think

to the State Supreme Court, not just an appeals court.

[Scairp]

145. It's automatic for death

For life without, I'm not sure if it's automatic. But they certainly have some good appellate issues. Not that they will win on appeal but good issues to file with.

[BigPauly]

18. At least one exsusion was justified...

Seems she was doing independant research for....

Maybe a book deal????

Oh the road to riches, get on a high profile criminal jury.

BTW - I think i Just made up the word Exsusion...

[sandnsea]

45. Because she had a brain??

And thought the prosecution's case was bullshit?? Nah, that couldn't be it.

I understand it's illegal, but heaven forbid somebody should know the crap prosecutions claim as truth and try to bring some intelligence into a jury room when a man's life is on the line.

[BigPauly]

76. There are rules of law and procedure for a reason...

Assuming that she was doing this for a reason other than personal gain, the rules of trail process and procedure are there for a reason. Evidence and witnesses are carefully measured by leagal standards by the judge, and attempts to introduce outside influences only contaminates the process.

It is hard enough to empanel an unbiased jury these days with all of the media coverage and bias network reporting. But we don't need jurors out there introducing thier own evidence into trials.

I'll bet that the first book to come out about this trial is by this juror though.

[physioex]

3. I am really tired of this crap...

When will this go away. However I am afraid the RW will use this to turn over Roe v Wade..... :scared:

[hollywood926]

8. There is a difference between...

terminating a pregnancy in the first trimester and murdering a baby that's about to be born.

[shanti]

29. what??

not to the fundies!

[Cyrix]

56. The fundies don't control the courts

(yet)

Sounds like the pregnancy was just about over. That's a MAJOR difference than (for example) a first trimester abortion. The fundies have nothing.

Now hopefully the media will STFU about this. Though I know they'll pull something else out soon after.

[MayJuly4]

106. What's the difference?

There is a difference between... terminating a pregnancy in the first trimester and murdering a baby that's about to be born.


Yeah, especially when the mother is murdered too.

[puddycat]

27. Oh My God!!! That is the reason FOX is obsessed w/this story!

Its got to be. Because on Fox News, its Laci & her baby, all the time. I wondered why, and this makes sense--it all feeds into the Repuke agenda!

[Tight_rope]

165. I'm happy this fucking trial is over...Damn it's been about 5 years now.

[Bluebear]

167. There will be years of appeals now!

Oh boy! :shrug:

[ogradda]

4. first degree for laci.

they got him for the baby too. second degree for him.

[liberalhistorian]

119. I'm pro-choice, but I have to agree

with the conviction for the murder of the baby boy as well. This was a child almost ready to be born, not a first-trimester fetus. There is a HUGE difference, and the fact that the pro-choice side doesn't seem to see that is really turning a lot of people off, even those who support abortion rights.

[jdj]

172. it's scary but it is not at odds with the pro-choice line of belief

it was the mothers' choice to have the child. her CHOICE. Her choice was taken away.

Choice is not in question, it is the angle they are pursuing that ending a life is murder, but we need to fight with the end that it is a woman's choice and Connor was a wanted child murdered by his father very late in term. I think pro-choice people have a right to be concerned. It is a sticky, sticky issue.

This same case should be used against Bush for authorizing the murder of Iraqi children by bombing if they are going to use it as a precedent against abortion.

[northzax]

6. anyone want to take bets on the appeals?

I wager there's plenty of good grounds.

[livinbella]

33. I'll pass on that bet

There is a 100% chance you are correct.
(He seems guilty as sin to me.)

[Tempest]

42. Judicial interference

The judge tainted the jury decision by removing two jurors in order to get a guilty conviction.

The judge should be censored.

[MayJuly4]

108. How do you know?

Boy, you sound awfully sure of yourself.
YOU KNOW the Judge removed two jurors for no other reason than to get a guilty verdict?

How would you KNOW such a thing!?

Ouiji board?

[liberalhistorian]

121. No, the judge had very good

reason, and very strong legal precedent, to remove those two jurors. Jurors CANNOT do their own work, they MUST stick with what's presented in court. Although, I will say that both sides fucked the trial up royally and I have no doubt that there are other grounds for appeal. I also believe he is absolutely guilty as all get-out and I hope he rots in prison forever.

[Tempest]

174. Only one juror was removed for outside research

No reason was given, and has yet to be given, for removing the foreman.

[Say_What]

60. Ditto!! The judge was determined the jurors weren't gonna

find a mistrial and to ensure that he let go two jurors, one was the jury forman!!

[Bo]

173. I agree, Judge wanted a verdict at any cost

[goobergunch]

7. resisting urge to alert for lack of newsworthiness

;)

[mike_c]

12. agreed....

One of the advantages of not having television is that I've been spared constant exposure to this "story."

[smbolisnch]

13. Hey now.....

Don't shoot the messenger :)

[Exultant Democracy]

16. Top story Scott Guilty,

in other news Bush Nukes france.

[Chicago Democrat]

19. ROFL!!!

[manxkat]

50. while Cheney and the neocons were

found GUILTY for the attacks on 9/11... and promptly pardoned

[WatchWhatISay]

141. I know what you are saying but

I think it is relevant today. Just not so many of the other 700 days the media has been obsessed with this story.

[Renew Deal]

10. Let him fry

[Democat]

11. The judge probably got rid of the jurors that wouldn't agree, how corrupt!

The guy is probably guilty, but that is not the way the system is supposed to work.

[Politicub]

15. That was weird

It seems like that isn't right, but I don't know the law that would govern the jury.

[napi21]

31. We have NO IDEA why those two jurors were dismissed!

I think it's wrong to criticize the judge without knowing why he ruled as he did.

Few, if any, judges make rulings in capitol cases that can easily be overturned.

I admit, I'm surprised at the first degree verdict. I expected a second degree.

[liberalhistorian]

124. As a paralegal, I have to agree

with that, judges do not do things like that just to get the result they want or they think should happen. Especially when they know the full national spotlight is on them and the full scrutiny of the legal world as well. In capital cases, and especially media-spotlight ones, they're not normally gonna do something that can be so easily overturned.

I really believe he had good reason, and legal precedent, to dismiss the jurors. One of them was doing her own independent research and you CANNOT do that on juries, you MUST stick with what's presented in court by each side.

[aprillcm]

32. No

No there was extensive in chamber hearings about the removal of these Jurors the Judge was determined to make sure this case could not be overturned on appeal, so he evidently had a very good reason outside just that they could not agree there was more to it.

Secondly we all knew he did it. Almost as soon as she turned up missing, something about his behavior was not right.

3rd the Baby was with in weeks of birth viable outside the mother therefor this was murder, Not nearly the same thing as abortion and he deserved convicted actually I think they should hang him. This was his Child HIS and he was callous enough to murder his(Coners) mother therefor murdering the child.

[ogradda]

14. o jeez a penalty phase

will this case NEVER die?!

[derby378]

20. Starting on Nov. 22?

Not sure about timeline yet.

[Seabiscuit]

156. Oboy. Just in time for Thanksgiving.

:puke:

[liberalhistorian]

126. ALL criminal convictions

have penalty phases. And let's face it, this case will NEVER NEVER die. I can just see it now, "anniversary" specials every fucking five years. Twenty years from now we'll have a retrospective, and a "how Scott Peterson is coping while his fiftieth lawyer is preparing for his 75th appeal", or some such bullshit.

[Chicago Democrat]

17. Yawn...WHY IS THIS FUCKING NEWS!

See Fallujah story for REAL NEWS

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/12/international/middleeast/12scene.html?oref=login

[lazarus]

22. Here's a twist that makes it news

They found him guilty of 2nd degree murder for the death of the unborn child.

[derby378]

26. Oops - I thought it was first-degree (n/t)

[Chicago Democrat]

28. Ah yes... I forgot everything has to lend support toPsychotic Right Wing

ENDLESS PROPAGANDA...

[shanti]

30. which means, he'll probably get life

imo...

[lazarus]

41. Oh, he got first as well

First for Laci, Second for the fetus.

[Shakespeare]

51. No, they specifically also voted on the special circumstances clause.

That makes him eligible for the death penalty. I found the 2nd degree ruling VERY interesting.

[George_S]

63. So?

Isn't that what Nancy Grace and Gloria Allred wanted?

[Seabiscuit]

158. Yes, that IS the bizarre twist to this verdict.

It sets a precedent and is itself a ground for an appeal. It violates Roe v. Wade - in that that case held that a fetus (even a viable one in the late third trimester, as in this case)is not a human being with legal legal rights until it draws its first breath of air independent of the mother following birth.

This aspect of Roe v. Wade actually has nothing to do with abortion, as such, nor does this verdict. It has to do with drawing a line w/r/t obtaining legal protection. And the court chose to draw the line as I've stated. So a fetus, even a viable one, in that court's opinion could not be the victim of a prosecutable crime itself. Only the mother could - e.g., if someone punched a pregnant woman in the stomach, killing/aborting the fetus, the person who did the punching, under Roe v. Wade cannot be prosecuted for killing the fetus, but for what he did to the expectant mother (which, for a pregnant woman, consists of far more than a mere battery charge).

[cubsfan forever]

109. Hear, Hear! n/t

Professor 2

[MayJuly4]

111. Why is this news?

Why is this news, you ask?

Because the #1 cause of death of pregnant women is MURDER!
Usually by the father of her baby!

That is why this is important for people to know. Pregnant women are getting murdered in record numbers. We need to be aware of this and find out why this is happening and work to stop it.
It's sick!

[liberalhistorian]

128. It's always happened more than

people would ever care to believe. It's just that it's far more "media-worthy" now. No, scratch that. It's far more media-worthy if they're white and middle or upper-class, or married to a middle or, especially, upper-class man. If you're poor and/or minority with the "wrong" pedigree, nobody gives a shit.

[senseandsensibility]

143. Just a little nit pick

Laci is a Latina; the last name Rocha is a common Spanish surname.

[MADem]

152. I thought she was Portugese n/t

[senseandsensibility]

171. No, she's

half Mexican. Her real Dad, Dennis Rocha, is camera shy and is rarely in the news. He's Mexican, and her Mom is white. I think some people think that her stepfather is her real father, since Mr. Rocha keeps such a low profile.

[wicket]

21. Burn in hell Scott!!!!!

:grr:

[deadmessengers]

23. Good.

Fuck him. Now can we get back to talking about something that actually fucking matters?

[liberalhistorian]

129. I would certainly hope so, but

you know it doesn't work like that with the "librul" media!

[derby378]

24. MSNBC link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6385208/

[maveric]

25. Another white, privilidged, republican, San Diego boy done good.

<sarcasm>
Dont fry him. Keep him in the Pelican Bay, San Quentin and Folsom rotation for the rest of his life.
Now thats punishment!

[Pachamama]

90. As Gloria Allred said "Let Scott become someone else's wife"....

Personally, if I were Scott, I'd be hoping for the death penalty...atleast that way he gets to have ultra-protection and it will be unlikely that he'll be put to death atleast for 20+ years...

On the other hand, if he is sent to Pelican Bay, San Quentin or Folsom, he will become "wife" of many and probably not gently and won't last or live long....

ugh...what an ugly situation...no one wins in this case, least of all the families...

Meanwhile, while not meaning to minimize Laci and Connors death, it is a relief for this to finally be over so we can all focus on things more important - like our soldiers and innoncent civilians dieing in Fallujah as we speak!

[Qutzupalotl]

103. (off topic) If we know that's going on and likely to happen to him,

doesn't that violate the "cruel and unusual punishment" clause?

"I hereby sentence you to 20 years of hard buggery"?

[samtob]

107. LOL

Waiting for lightening to strike me for laughing!

[Pachamama]

114. Sadly, it is known this happens...

I'm sure Alberto Gonzales approves...

[ronnykmarshall]

120. What?

Uh, he was from Modesto and far from being rich.

[Catchawave]

142. Abu Grahib for him! n/t

[senseandsensibility]

144. Do we know that he's a repuke?

I've been curious about that. I mean, if a criminal is a liberal the media can't wait to tell us about it.

[Seabiscuit]

159. So since the media hasn't mentioned it, ergo he's a Repuke. :)

[Sandpiper]

34. Looks like the judge got the result he was hoping for

I wonder if his machinations will stand up on appeal.

[0007]

94. A lot of political implications on this one and in junior's favor.

[daleo]

35. Bring on the next distraction

It is a little late in the season for shark attacks - maybe Yeti attacks.

[sysoprock]

36. Fry that frat boy.

That fucker needs to burn.

[Tempest]

38. It'll be overturned on appeal

The judge obviously poisoned the jury deliberations by removing two jurors.

[conservdem]

177. Very unlikeily to be overturned on appeal.

I am very pleased with this conviction. What makes makes you think there was "obvious poisioning" of the jury?

[Snellius]

39. Will the wingoes be upset because no 1st degree for baby?

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Ima]

48. It begins

Second degree murder for a fetus. Granted it could have lived outside the womb...this time, this case.....


Next..........

[Mike Daniels]

95. As it should have been.

Sorry, but if Scott is guilty he killed his wife knowing that it would kill his unborn son. Since Lacy intended on carrying the baby to term and the baby was viable at that point then it should be charged as murder to some degree.

[Old and In the Way]

104. What if Lacy fell down and caused a stillbirth?

Whaddaya think? Accidental homicide? 2nd degree murder? Manslaughter?

[liberalhistorian]

131. That's totally different and

you know it. A fall or accident like that is certainly not at all done on purpose and "with malice aforethought" and with the intention to also kill the baby, as it appears to have been in Scott's case. A man who would kill his pregnant wife when she's close to giving birth so he can have fun with his mistress deserves to burn in hell forever.

[Old and In the Way]

135. You miss the point.

The precedent will be established and now we can open up a whole Pandora's box of unintended consequences. Forget I said Laci...let's make the woman's name Staci. Now tell me how we'll prosecute Staci for the death of the child.

[liberalhistorian]

137. I hope to hell that doesn't start

happening, although i'm afraid you've got a point. Look at that woman they charged with murder for refusing to have a c-section her doctor wanted her to have, and one of the twins died. They ended up dropping the charges after a public outcry, but still........

[Seabiscuit]

160. Second degree murder doesn't require "malice aforethought" either.

Nor does it require evil intent. All it requires is something more than mere negligence - i.e., reckless disregard of human life.

So yes, there is that distinction - Laci falling and killing her child would have been either purely accidental, or at most negligent.

One issue on appeal, therefore, is the "human life" part of that element of second degree murder - under Roe v. Wade, no life is a "human life" with legal rights, until born and it takes its first breath of air. The "human life" contemplated in homicide cases and statutes have to date only applied to people already born and living independent of their mothers.

[sleepyhead]

118. I'm afraid you're right.

Here we go.

[goodboy]

43. good. (nt)

[truthseeker1]

44. Oh geez, now the unborn baby has a NAME?

No fricking way!

[LisaL]

52. His mother gave him a name before she was murdered.

:spank:

[DemBones DemBones]

54. The parents had named him -- people normally choose names

before a child is born, even more so now that most people learn the sex of the baby months before birth.

[sandnsea]

55. Baby Conner legislation

That Kerry voted against. Created a federal murder statute for the unborn.

[Seabiscuit]

161. That legislation embodied the essence of the "fundie" political agenda

Mixing, of course, their religious beliefs with political action with legislative attempts.

[Danmel]

64. That's not unusual

I didn't know whether I was having a girl or a boy, but we picked out names well ahead of time. She was very pregnant when she was killed- it's not as if she was 5 weeks along or something.

I am pro-choice, but I have to tell you if someone had stabbed me when I was 8 months pregnant and the baby/fetus/whatever you want to call it that I was carrying died I'd want the person who did that to me criminally prosecuted. The key word here is CHOICE. She did not CHOOSE to have her baby/fetus/whatever you want to call it removed from her person.

[Seabiscuit]

162. Agreed - just don't undermine Roe v. Wade perverting the murder statutes.

[Danmel]

169. I'm with you

I agree with you-the last thing I want to see is the loss of our reproductive rights. I think we have to use a little common sense too.

[peterh]

47. I thought for sure he’d make his golf date with OJ….

Justice wins for a change…

[halobeam]

62. No offense here, and I'm new,

but I'm a little bit surprised that we are calling this "non" news. A pregnant women is dead. She's just as important as a dead soldier. Justice should be served on the person responsible for her death, same as justice should be served on the person responsible for a soldiers' death (and we all know who that is).

Don't get me wrong, I didn't follow this case for a living minute, cuz I can't take the media whoring themselves over this, until something better comes along, as I see it. I however, am livid over the "non" coverage of this war, the REAL war and the "non" coverage of their coffins returning home.

This media is way freakin' twisted.

[leftynyc]

72. I think it's referred to as non-news for all the same

reasons you didn't follow the case. The disproportionate amount of coverage for one murder was ridiculous. It is very much doubted that if she wasn't a pretty, white woman this would have garnered this much publicity.

[Connie_Corleone]

83. The problem is this kind of case happens all the time.

There have been several cases like this one that haven't been in the news. Some of us just don't understand why this particular case is so important to the media.

[Blue_Tires]

84. sorry, but this is 'non' news

to anyplace outside of southern calif....I'm on the east coast and work in journalism, and believe me, reading police reports, many people(sadly, most are nonwhite and unglamorous) die in the most gruesome and unjust ways beyond the pale of imagination...and the general public can't be bothered for caring one second in most cases...

there are only three reasons why the networks manufactured this into national news:

1. the petersons were rich and young
2. the victim was white, and easy on the eyes
3. the victim was pregnant, and certain politicians will use this as a test case for future anti-choice legislation...

[Old and In the Way]

105. I think (3.) is the biggie......

[Seabiscuit]

163. I think (3.) was the entire reason the RW media exploited this case

[MayJuly4]

113. Murder....and Media Coverage...

The Petersons were rich?
-- he sold FERTILIZER! for goodness sake - that doesn't make him rich! I believe they lived modestly in the middle class.
-- the victim was innocent and could be any one of us.
-- I don't believe politicians were behind the media push of this story. The Media pushes what the public wants to hear.

I mentioned this before - but I'll say it again...
The #1 cause of death of pregnant women is MURDER! That's why this is news!

[Blue_Tires]

123. ok, so maybe they weren't millionaires

but they obviously weren't living on public assistance in a shack out in the woods...

i never said the victim wasn't innocent...but it's human nature to feel more sympathy and have a stronger emotional investment when the victim is beautiful...Believe me, i've covered crime (in poor communities)and the attitude being sent by this overbearing TV coverage is that if you're not white or middle-class, no one cares...I live in RI, and on the surface, this case is nowhere near relavant to what's going on where i live, or how i live my life...I promise you that in the home state of every poster in this thread, a man has either been arrested for killing his wife/girlfriend, or is already on trial as we speak for a similar crime....where's the 24-hr CNN coverage for them?? why are so many people (americans in general that have become enamored with the case) more interested in a murder 1500 miles away, yet write off the girl down the block who was abducted/raped/murdered as 'just another statistic??'

the pols were not necessarily behind the media push, but many of the movers and shakers (emboldened by the election) have been watching this case with eager eyes...look for a press conference by your local GOP politician very soon about writing some kind of law to protect the life of the fetus...

[liberalhistorian]

134. Yeah, and while they gleefully

write leglislation to stomp on working families and remove any remaining shred of a safety net for children, and while they decimate public education, and while they take away funding for juvenile programs and assistance programs for poor families with children and on and on and on. But they'll jut out their chins and beat their chests and crow about how "pro-family" and "pro-life" they are, of course.

[ronnykmarshall]

122. Buzzzz! Wrong!

1. The Petersons were not rich. Maybe upper middle class.

2. Laci was latino. Her maiden name was Rocco.

[Blue_Tires]

127. "2. Laci was latino. Her maiden name was Rocco."

could have fooled me (not that i was really keeping up with the trial, anyways)...

be that as it may, we both know if she were darker, or if she had a spanish surname, this story never would have made it past the local beat reporter

[peterh]

89. War is messy and not for beautiful minds….

Tabloid crap is where the action is….I know because Barbara told me….

[Ctrl_Alt_Del]

92. I'm new, too... but the fact remains

Dead African American woman = no story

Dead white (and yes, cute) suburban mom = trial of the century

It's not the coverage of the crime that's so offensive. It's the preferential treatment of certain, selected victims by the media that makes me sick to my stomach.

[ronnykmarshall]

125. SHE WAS LATINO!!!

Rocha? Yeah, that's a "white" name !

[Ctrl_Alt_Del]

130. Oh please

The point is, they were an attractive, suburban family... the story appealed to the nightmares of middle-American cable subscribers... not the barrio.

And BTW, it's LATINA.

[ronnykmarshall]

132. Self delete

It ain't worth the effort.

[Ctrl_Alt_Del]

139. What effort?

You bailed on your point before I had a chance to see it. How much effort would have been required to NOT delete it?

Let me ask you this: Laci's maiden name notwithstanding, do you think the media-consuming public who have followed this case identify her as a Latina? Do you think the media has presented her as a Latina?

[liberalhistorian]

136. Most people didn't know her maiden name,

and she could have passed for white. And Scott Peterson is white, which makes all the difference as far as media coverage is concerned.

[LisaL]

147. Is that why OJ's case was covered day and night?

:eyes:

[Blue_Tires]

150. oj was a wealthy, high-profile

hall of fame athlete and part-time actor, and his wife was a statuesque blonde...the case was a dream come true for cable news (iirc, court tv got it's start JUST because of this case)

[Bo]

175. Your Right! Black? no media coverage

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

53. Now we know that the two kicked off actually DARED TO REASON, not believe

The Asian-American woman and J.D./M.D. foreman who were kicked off for reportedly conducting their own experiments or obstinance in the face of groupthink were the hold outs. I'm more than certain that these two educated folks argued that "beyond a reasonable doubt" was NOT met in this case...particularly given the circumstantial nature of any evidence.

In essence, this revised jury's decision is a microcosm of America's DISTAIN for SCIENCE and FACTS, in favor of BELIEF and SENTIMENTALITY.

JB

[LisaL]

57. Science? What freaking science are you talking about?

Do run a statistical test on the chances of body ending up where Mr. Peterson was "fishing" that day and then we will talk about science.:spank:

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

66. There are lies, damn lies, then...there's statistics - Mark Twain

Maybe science wasn't the best term to use in my statement, but you cannot say that the evidence against Petersen was anything but circumstantial.

There's a reason for the "beyond a reasonable doubt" prerequisite for any conviction. It is FAR better to err on the side of the accused than the accuser.

Essentially, what the 12 people on the REVISED jury indicated was that they were JUST FINE AND DANDY with a possible death sentence for someone who WAS NOT PROVED BY ANY MEANS to be responsible for Laci Petersen's death.

All that being said, he is probably guilt of the crime, but that BELIEF should NOT trump the need for a preponderance of evidence and "beyond a reasonable" doubt.

It is better that Petersen go free, than to put to DEATH an innocent person.

JB

[The Stranger]

78. You have to admit: there is no science -- it was all circumstantial.

No murder weapon, no witnesses, not even a cause of death.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

81. Agreed, see my earlier response... n/t

JB

[RummyTheDummy]

148. Yeah, he's completely innocent

Everyone knows it was the space aliens and satanists who murdered his wife. She was just very, very unlucky and Scotty is as pure as the driven snow.

(sarcasm off)

[TheWraith]

99. Gee...

After it was heavily publicized in the local press that that was where Peterson said he was on the day in question? If I had murdered her, I would have dumped the body right there where he said he had been. Throw the cops off any possible trail towards me, and let people jump to exactly the conclusion they wanted to see from the beginning.

If I were Scott Peterson, why would I admit to having been fishing in exactly the spot where I dumped my dead wife's body? It's not exactly hard to disguise oneself if you're concerned about being seen from a distance. Where's the murder scene? There was absolutely no forensic evidence of a murder in the house or any other location they searched, and a murder is practically impossible to clean up. If I'm smart enough to commit the perfect, evidenceless murder, why am I stupid enough to dump the body right on top of my alibi, or to be cheating on my wife with some dumb blonde to whom I'm telling all sorts of outlandish BS?

[derby378]

61. The only problem with that argument is...

A juror is ONLY supposed to consider what facts are laid out in the courtroom without using any outside sources or investigations of any kind. Think of a courtroom as being like a Petri dish - if any outside contamination gets in the dish, the specimen may be ruined.

One judge I served under told me that jurors are essentially twelve separate "judges" - once the facts are laid down by the prosecution and defense, it's up to us. The judge has to serve as a referee to weed out what can be admitted, what's irrelevant, what's inadmissable, etc.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

71. Right...and if you believe that, I have some beachfront property in TN

Idealistically, I agree with you...but, in REALITY things are more like "Twelve Angry Men" and likely to be swayed by personality and group dynamics.

JB

[TNOE]

93. I DO think it is against the rules to conduct

your own experiments from what I understand, so if they broke the rules, then the judge had every right to kick them off. I agree with an above poster that the Judge in this case is no doubt smart enough to not do anything that would have thrown the case into a mistrial or an automatic appeal.

There are ALOT of cases tried and conticted on "circumstantial" evidence, sometimes that's all you got. I read an article where jurors are always expecting CSI or forensic science for every case to make it "clear cut" and that is just not the reality. There was a case in Kentucky where an abusive boyfriend had been beating his girlfriend regularaly, she left - and then disappeared - NEVER to be found. However, he was convicted and sent to jail based on circumstantial evidence and that in my opinion was a just verdict. I do not think Geragous proved "reasonable doubt" at all in my opinion.

[StevieM]

115. I think there were plenty of facts saying Scott was guilty. (eom)

x

[MoonRiver]

58. Glad to hear it. There is still some justice in this f***ed up country.

I'm against the death penalty, but I hope the scum gets life without parole.

[devilgrrl]

65. Hey Scott - have fun rotting behind bars!

No mercy.

[JPace]

67. Relief.....

can we get on with our lives now or will they immediately
grab another gossipy murder to divert people from the slow
death of our nation through repug tactics?

[BronxBoy]

101. Robert Blake and Michael Jackson

are on the way

[mvd]

68. I agree with this verdict

It's a very strong circumstantial case. I believe circumstantial cases this strong usually meet the beyond a reasonable doubt criteria. It takes quite a bit for me to buy circumstantial cases, and I bought it here. That said, I thought the jury would be really picky and vote not guilty.

If I was for the death penalty, he'd be a good candidate because of lack of remorse shown and the fact Laci was his pregnant wife - but I oppose the death penalty in all cases.

[Bluebear]

74. I don't get how 2 jurors are replaced....

and they are supposed to "re-start" deliberations each time, and yet they have an instant verdict. Something just isn't sitting right with me.

[LisaL]

79. The man is GUILTY as SIN.

I, for one is happy that at least for now it doesn't look that he will be playing golf with OJ.

[Bluebear]

82. Whether he is guilty or not there are still procedures

[LisaL]

86. I am sure they kicked those jurors out for a reason.

[Bluebear]

87. yeah the foreman said the evidence was all garbage

[progressivebydesign]

100. Was he the guy that was found out to actually KNOW Peterson?

Someone on the jury worked for them at their old restaurant/bar... that would be A BIG DISQUALIFICATION>

[Almost_there]

102. Not quite, but, coincidentally...

Actually, it is the future son-in-law of a juror that worked at a restaraunt that the Peterson's owned for 5 weeks. The guy wasn't his possible father in law at the time, it was years ago that the future son-in-law worked there, and it was for 5 weeks. So, not really an issue.

As for the 2 jurors that were dismissed, there was evidently cause for their dismissal. One was evidently dismissed for doing independent "research" about the case on their own just before / during deliberation (IMMEDIATE dismissal in any case in the US, some on..) and the other one was dismissed for cause as well, but, they haven't announced what. The reason they have alternates is because of the possiblity of dismissal. Alternates are involved in jury deliberations, but, they do not get to participate in votes. To me, it seems a bit silly, since when you are discussing with other jurors, you automatically voice your opinion, at least in the juries I've sat on.

~Almost

[liberalhistorian]

138. I agree, the evidence was

overwhelming and I'm sure it wouldn't have taken them long at all to reach that verdict.

[Fleshdancer]

69. why didn't he just divorce her??

I don't understand people. *sigh* My heart goes out to all the friends and family members who mourn Laci. I can't even begin to imagine the hell that her mother is in...and Scott's mom too for that matter. (I speak of the mothers because I am one and can't imagine going through something like this)

[LisaL]

77. I would guess $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

He would have to pay child support and he wasn't looking forward to that.

[Fleshdancer]

98. People are so damn stupid sometimes....

If it was because of child support, he certainly wouldn't be the first person to kill for that reason. Stupid idiot. Don't these people watch CSI or read Patricia Cornwell??? Forensic science is pretty damn advanced. To think that killing someone because you were too damn stingy to help financially support a kid you had part in creating is so freakin' idiotic! :grr:

Makes me really glad I didn't follow the case. With Bush around, I already have too much to be angry about.

[Tight_rope]

166. That would have been too easy...he wanted the money!

[The Zug]

73. At last I can get on with my life.

That's a joke, by the way.

[rodeodance]

80. soon, i can turn on the news and not hear about it (after turkey day)

with any luck. yabba dappa doooo.

[northern]

88. Perfect Timing

Now that the election is over. What will the next Jerry Springer story to keep the sheeple entranced and unconcerned that their country is going down the tubes.

[progressiveboston]

85. Well at least Petersonwon't be all the news all the time

Maybe they can focus on the recounts now...
Overly optimistic.. I know...

[progressivebydesign]

97. Good. I hope he rots in hell!

Women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends daily. Though this case was hyped beyond belief, perhaps it's good that it was. It reminds people about the REAL threat to women, it's not strangers.. it's 'loved ones'. The ultimate domestic abuse, murder.

[ocean girl]

112. Right on, Progressive

I was in a newsroom today when the verdict was read and all the women were cheering.

Us girls know a monster when we see one!

[Demobrat]

110. Well, I just hope he doesn't get death.

Death is too good for him, and death row is much too comfortable. Throw the white yuppie baby killer in with the general population, with no possibility of parole. Now that's an appropriate punishment.

[paula777]

133. Even if he gets the death penatly ...

He won't be executed. When is the last California executed someone on death row? I live here and I can't remember them executing anyone in a very long time.

[Demobrat]

140. No, and meanwhile,

he'll live in relative comfort in a private cell on death row for 20 years while the appeals are filed. The guy needs to be thrown in Folsom with the rest of the hard asses. We know he's a big, bad dude when it's time to get rid of a a 5'4" pregnant woman. Let's see how big and tough he is when he's up against a 6'4" gangbanger with nothing to do but lift weights.

[RummyTheDummy]

149. You're right....it hasn't been used once since it became legal again

No way he is ever executed. If they can't find cause to execute the Nightstalker, Richard Ramirez, who killed like 10 or 15 people, no way Peterson gets it.

[lwin]

164. Check your facts

Uh...wrong. It has indeed been used. It was implemented as most recently as this year. The stats:

Since the U.S. Supreme Court allowed states to resume capital punishment in 1976, California has executed 10 condemned inmates.

Unfortunately, Charles Manson was able to benefit from a time when his death sentence was commuted to "life with possibility of parole".

The issue is complicated. A lot of use are wary of the death penalty, because of the possibility that an innocent man could be killed. However, there are the very real cases like Manson and Ramirez where, let's face it...they are a danger to society, and a complete waste of oxygen and resources. They deserve to die.

[imenja]

153. So where was Mark Geragos?

Any word on where Geragos was when the verdict came in?

[jimmyp]

157. Malpractice

I think he should be sued for malpractice and be disbarred. There is no excuse for not showing up to your client's death-penalty verdict.

[BUSHOUT]

154. People are dying in Iraq LOCK THIS SHIT PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:argh:

[fujiyama]

170. It's very sad that a woman was murdered...but I still don't get

why this story was so big. I know she was pregnant, but I think attractive white suburbanite = big media story, while poor black people in Detroit means 2 minutes of coverage on local TV.

As for Scot Petterson, he can go fuck himself. His story always seemed like bullshit.

[seriousstan]

176. Breaking...O.J. killed his wife and the election had faults.

Soe thing are obvious to even the most casual observer.