Dean Finds Role Evolving Toward Center

[Nambe]

ARLINGTON, Va. (AP)

Now that Howard Dean has become a leading money- raiser among the Democratic presidential candidates, he's making the argument that he's more moderate than some rivals and aims to work with the party's centrists.




The former Vermont governor found himself in that unusual position Friday night as he watched other Democratic hopefuls endorse gay marriage, universal college education and a federal Department of Peace.

Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich told a crowd of about 1,000 attending a National Organization for Women (news - web sites) candidate forum that he would establish a Department of Peace and a litmus test for judicial nominees to support a woman's right to choose.

Al Sharpton said it was time to take back the Democratic Party from "the right-wingers who call themselves centrists who have taken control of this party." Kucinich and Sharpton both endorsed gay marriage. ---

And Dean moderated his trademark line, borrowed from the late Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone: "I am from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

On Friday night, he said: "I'm from the 'Let's beat George Bush' wing of the Democratic Party."

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[Thaddeus]

1. I love Dean but...

if he keeps that up he's going to lose support from the democratic base. I totally expected him to move a bit more ot the center (and if you look at his record as governor, he is probably more centrist than progressive). But altering Wellstone's classic line from "democratic wing of the democratic party" to the "let's beat Bush wing of the democratic party" is just plain weak. I find that really disappointing.

[Egnever]

43. wow he just cant win!

People are mad he uses wellstones line. Then they are mad because hes bashing the other dems by using it. Then they are mad because he changes it.

Guy just cant catch a break

[unfrigginreal]

2. Dean has always been a moderate

It's just the pubbies that are screaming about how liberal he is, and the press naturally reports anything the pubbies put out as fact.

[Thaddeus]

3. Agreed

Though his outspoken anti-Bush rhetoric has been so refreshing to so many of us. And I believe it's sincere. For example, he has said that the first thing he would do as president is tear up the "Bush doctrine."

[unfrigginreal]

4. I'm with ya'

I didn't mean to give the impression that I disapproved of his moderate positions, quite the contrary, he'll be my choice for the nomination if Clark doesn't get in.

[KittyWampus]

38. No, It's NOT Just "pubbies"

screaming how liberal he is.

I've read many posts here on DU from people who support Dean cause he's a "real" liberal...

Dean is an opportunist.

[dArKeR]

42. William Pitt interviewed Dean about 4 weeks ago and predicted

that's what Dean would Dean. Go Pitt! Go Dean.

http://www.dvmx.com/pitt-dean.html

[revcarol]

5. He's a CONSERVATIVE on financial issues.

He's backed off a little from his balanced budget spiel,but not much, and he's going to limit government expenditures.

So where's he going to get the money for his fancy "provide subsidies to businesses" health plan? And where's he going to get the money for education?ETC., ad infinitum.

"We can't reduce the defense budget in this time of terror, on the Russert show. I about dropped my teeth.So where's he going to get the money to almost balance the budget?

Not one word about rolling back either of Bush's tax cuts.so wherte's he going to get the money to almost balance the budget?

Out of social services is the only big place left.

So the next time you hear what a moderate he is, just think about how CONSERVATIVE he is on financial issues. The Blue Dogs will love him: anything to balance the budget.

[unfrigginreal]

7. Yeah, God Forbid we go back to Clinton policies

Was it really THAT bad in the 90's? I ask, you decide!

[sangh0]

49. Clinton increased social spending

by raising taxes, which helped balance the budget.

Dean is no Clinton. Clinton was not a moderate who could attract the support of liberals. He was a liberal who could attract the votes of moderates.

[Teacher4dean04]

9. Fiscally smart Dean

"So where's he going to get the money for his fancy "provide subsidies to businesses" health plan? And where's he going to get the money for education?ETC., ad infinitum."

I've heard him say that he can't do *everything*, and his number one goal is to balance the budget. In that, he definitely has priorities, education for one. Naturally homeland security is another. He (if I have this right) wants to repeal the tax cuts. From his page: Governor Dean has long advocated reversing President Bush's irresponsible tax cuts to fund more pressing needs of the country, such as universal health care. In addition, Dean would use these funds to establish a Homeland Defense Trust Fund to fund his comprehensive three-circle homeland defense strategy.


As governor, he had a balanced budget, even during this economic disaster. At the same time, 96% of children in his state have health coverage. He is pretty good at spending what money he does have wisely. Most of America needs to learn to spend what they have and not live on credit. Dean provides a good model.

[loyalsister]

11. Reality bites!

"I've heard him say that he can't do *everything*"
What a nice thing to hear. I am not your savior I can't walk in here and solve every problem in America, as opposed to I will, by GOd repeal this that everything and maybe up next guarantee every working person in America makes $50,000\yr.
I agree. Dean provides a good model and a sensible plan. It's based on logic and in the real world we live in. To get a health care plan passed right now, they are going to have to work slowly towards perfection. Anyone who thinks it is even REMOTELY possible to get a medicare model even with a dem in office is living on another planet. The best chance of getting something passed is going to be through working with business. Currently, all but the most radical Republicans are getting to a point where they have to admit that we need Universal Health care. A reasonably "conservative" plan is something that has a real chance of passing. This is something he CAN take down south and sell to "white guys with confederate flag stickers on their pickup trucks." Especially when he tells them "even if you quit that job you hate, you won't lose your health insurance." There are more ways than direct government regulation to take power away from corporations and give it back to people. Immediate, radical changes aren't going to happen, but with mobility people have POWER and they know that!!
THAT'S what we want for the general!! THINK!!!

[IndianaGreen]

10. Paul Tsongas believed in fiscal discipline, as did Clinton

One cannot run huge deficits and have money left for the social programs one cares about.

The term fiscal conservative has lost its meaning. It is the conservatives that have bankrupt this country twice, using the "Supply Side" snake oil, with the Reagan and Bush deficits. It was Democratic Presidents Carter and Clinton who have been the most fiscally responsible ones. They were both former Governors. I expect Dean to follow the same pattern.

Except for Dean and Kucinich, none of the other Democratic candidates for President have prior experience in formulating and executing a budget, much less make the difficult decisions that Governors and Mayors face daily in allocating diminished resources to provide public services.

[clar]

12. Umm, No

Graham is a two term Governor.

[lkinsale]

25. Graham 8 yrs GOV in FL, state of 15 million vs Vermont 600k

Let's keep the record straight.

Graham appointed state supreme court judges (you remember the FL state supreme court?) He was never defeated, but ran for senate after his governer term limit and has won that seat 3 times.

Governor of Florida
(Elected 1978, reelected 1982)

As Florida's 38th governor, Bob Graham presided over a state with an extremely high surge in population growth and other far-reaching challenges. Graham met those challenges head on by providing strong leadership and passing economic reforms, education reform, and criminal justice reforms.

Bob Graham helped create over 1.5 million new jobs, balanced eight budgets, kept Florida a low-tax state, and became known as the "Education Governor."

According to The Florida Handbook: "As Governor, Graham showed leadership in times of unprecedented crises such as the massive Cuban-Haitian influx of 1980 and the civil disturbances in Miami in that same year. ? In 1979, two hurricanes threatened Florida back-to-back within two weeks of each other. Graham oversaw the huge evacuation programs that saved lives and prevented injuries. He advocated a strong federal role in fighting crime in Florida because of the state's unique vulnerability to illegal drug smuggling and immigration."

Graham's progressive policies on education, the environment and health care won national acclaim.

While governor of Florida, Bob Graham served as a chairman of the Southern Governors Association, the Education Commission of the States, the Southern Regional Educational Board, the National Advisory Commission on School Finance, the U.S. Intergovernmental Advisory Council on Education, and the Southern Growth Policies Board.

(my boldface)

[salin]

31. Tsongas was my primary choice in 1992

me and apparently not to many others :(

[JNelson6563]

14. I've heard him say

the bush tax cuts have to be undone. Many times.

Julie

[UpInArms]

17. I saw his ad in Iowa

and he says that the first thing he is going to do is to cancel the Bush tax cuts.

[Rose Siding]

20. The result: "Vermont beats trend with $10 million surplus"

MONTPELIER — In a fiscal year that saw states across the nation swimming in seas of red ink, Vermont ended with a $10.4 million General Fund surplus.

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/Story/68442.html

[Orangepeel]

23. "Not one word about rolling back either of Bush's tax cuts"

He's said many, many times that he wants to roll back both of *'s tax cuts. His standard stump speech goes something like this:

"People ask me, how are you going to win the election when you're talking about raising taxes? I say, I'm not going to talk about raising taxes. I'm going to ask people, 'would you rather have a strong economy and lower property taxes or the president's tax cuts? Would you rather have health insurance that can never be taken away or the president's tax cuts? Would you rather fully fund special education or the president's tax cuts?' I think people will say, "I'd rather have a strong economy, lower property taxes, health insurance that can never be taken away and fully funded education because I didn't get the president's tax cut!'"

He also says that he thinks most people will be willing to pay Clinton era taxes if it means a Clinton era economy.

[He loved Big Brother]

46. What do you mean not one word about rolling back Bush's tax cuts?

I suggest you read some of his speeches. Off th top of my head here's two things I remember him saying (Niether are verbatim)-

Health care: "Well, my plan would cost about half of the Bush tax cut, so I'll leave it up to your imagination how I would pay for it."

Economy: You can't spend the same dollar on a war, a tax cut, social security..." et al.

Yeah, there's been a few words about it from Dean.

[lifelong_Dem]

52. You're speaking from ignorance

"Not one word about rolling back either of Bush's tax cuts.so wherte's he going to get the money to almost balance the budget?"

Dean has called for repealing Bush's tax cuts:

http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state2003/052903_dean_real_2003.shtml

Before you start talking about the candidates' positions, it would be helpful if you actually KNEW what those positions were.

[WindRavenX]

6. I really don't think Dean is going to lose any of the Democratic base...

And because he supports gay marriages, he's going to get a very solid majority of the more left leaning members of the Democrats.
Dean is a very solid canidate, and with his ability to generate cash for the campaign, I think he (along with Kerry ;-) ) have the best chance at beating Bush.

[w4rma]

8. civil unions, not marrages (n/t)

[Gman]

13. Dean has to move to the middle

especially if he is nominated and wants more than a snow ball's chance in hell of winning in November.

[Le Taz Hot]

15. Perhpas you can be more specific

move to the center on what, exactly?

[unfrigginreal]

16. Dean IS in the middle

Don't believe everything that you see on CNN.

[vonZapfenau]

26. The middle is no alternative

Whoever runs against the Usurper, they can't win, and won't govern effectively unless the Democratic Party as a whole (and that includes the Congressional slate) articulates a clear alternative to the neocon con. The Repukes presented themselves as an opposition party in '94 while the Demos ignored their base. If we stand for something, they will come.

Centrists stand for the status quo and in that sense Dean is no centrist, even if he's not much of a liberal. The so-called swing voters in the center are the least informed; they tend to make their decisions based as much on gut feelings about the candidates as anything else. This could of course cut both ways for Dr. Dean.

Right now the party needs to start running ads based on the principles that all nine candidates can agree on, i.e. the model of using government as a tool to make peoples' lives better, rather than just enriching a few cronies. And that's liberalism; in that sense they're all liberals, from Holy Joe to Reverand Al.

The other thing they need to do is drive up the Usurper's negatives on his strongest asset, his supposed straight shooter image. Run the ads that detail his many lies. Nobody enjoys being lied to, except maybe GOP loyalists.

[knaveree]

45. Yup

I think VonZapfenau is right. The DNC needs to gather together some clear, bold statements about the Repukes and start hammering away, using some basic principles that all the candidates can embrace, and then blanket the airwaves with them. A few targeted demographic hits wouldn't be amiss, either: as Dr. Dean himself says, he WANTS to talk to the southern guys in beatup pickups with rifle racks. What, exactly, has the shrub administration done for them? Not a thing, except cause them to get another flag tatoo--and god help them if the damn thing gets infected, because their medical care is screwed.

Hey, VonZapfenau :toast: !!!!

[study_war_no_more]

27. middle men finish last or rather we do when they do

the pentagon and the patriot act is why I will not vote for Dean.
Go Dennis the only peace candidate.

[Khephra]

18. That's not a well written piece, imo

Quotes seem all over the place. I'm going to wait until I see this one on tape before I buy into everything this writer says.

But yes, we Dean supporters know he's not a liberal.

[janx]

22. Dean's so cool.

Reporters don't know what to do with him and never have.

[MODemocrat]

34. Dean's so exciting and not afraid to speak out

Sure, he doesn't stand for everything I'd like, but at least, he is out there listening to us. He's a fighter. We can bring him around.

[tjdee]

19. "I don't agree with Al about the DLC."

Interesting.

The DLC has, supposedly, slagged him specifically twice, and when Al Sharpton lays it down for NOW, Dean's response is "I don't agree with Al about the DLC"???

???????????????????????????????

What happened to the straight talk?

He's now from the "let's beat George Bush" wing? Is that kind of like the 'electable wing' like Graham says?

[GeronimoSkull]

21. Dean is the DLC stealth horse

seems to me... oh yeah, From blah blah blah... don't worry, they'll patch things up

[tjdee]

24. That's what I'm wondering.

I posted this in GD to see if anyone else has a different take on it.

I think it's wise of Dean to realize he's going to need the DLC come next year--but obviously he and the DLC are on better terms then one would think.

[study_war_no_more]

28. lets not forget

the DLC needs us to remain stupid. I don't think we need nor can we afford the DLC.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. Wow! Every thread I've noticed you on today is a new conspiracy theory

Dean is a DLC plant, Graham eats dinner with Mohammed's money man, and Zbig is simply firing the chimp from the secret world government's council....what a wealth of accusations you are...albeit short of an ounce of verifiable evidence...but...hey...paranoia strikes deep.....into DU it will creep...starts with innocuous posts...all about Dem boogeymen...planted by ghosts...you better stop...hey...what's that sound...everybody look......

BTW, when you go to bed tonight....don't look under it....there's monsters! :scared:

Funny thing about conspiracy theorists is they can no more prove their lies than the Bushies can but since they are on "our side" we should eat their shit like it's candy....sorry, my dentist says that will rot my mind.

[GeronimoSkull]

32. if you disagree with something I say

feel free to debate it!

[GeronimoSkull]

35. by the way

Don't pull some ridiculous garbage out of your ass and pretend it's something I said so you can swat it down in contempt.

It might be easier for you to trash your own fabrications but I'd rather you not involve me in that.

Like I said, if you disagree with something I say - feel free to debate it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Fine please elaborate on how Dean is the DLC stealth horse after

Al From and Bruce Reed publicly trashed him.

[GeronimoSkull]

39. Dean is the embodiment of the DLC

He seems to me to be the perfect new model New Democrat, the realization of the kind of Democrat the DLC was supposedly created in order to foster. Obviously From and Reed had their early money on different horses, but I'm quite sure everything will be smoothed out between them and the Dean camp.

[jamesinca]

29. I don't care what his stance is, I love the man

Yes I am a Dean supporter, yes I go to the meetups, yes I do like the idea that he will breath fire at the Bush administration, yes I do like that he has ideas that are consistant with mine for fixing this place.

[MODemocrat]

33. Yea! Let's beat George Bush

It will be nice if and when the democratic party decides to unite with that one thing in mind. We can do it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

36. Dean is a centrist moving to the right?

Just what we need. This is electable how?

[w4rma]

40. You must portray yourself as a centrist or somehow shrug off labels

You want to label your positions as moderate. Bush's positions are extreme right-wing and are not moderate. He lies about his positions in order to prevent folks from knowing about them, that right there shows that they aren't moderate. We need to push the center back to the center. If we are sure that our positions are accepted by the majority of Americans, then when they hear this position or that position voiced by our candidate we need to let folks know that that position is in the center. It's accepted by most Americans and we know it.

Note, I do not consider the DLC as moderate. I consider the DLC as secretive and pro-specific big buisnesses. I think that most folks do not like this cozy relationship with politicians and big buisness. I would like to see the DLC aligned with various competetors of the biggest buisnesses, maybe mid-sized buisnesses since small buisnesses have barely enough capital to survive much less lobby. Hopefully this will help whittle down some of the political power that the biggest (and and most insestuous) buisnesses have right now.

[hedgetrimmer]

41. NO, Dean is a centralist ... do not in any way lie to yourself or others

say what you want about labels... but, everyone who says go dean is giving dean the liberal identity, but dean is a centralist...

[w4rma]

44. Darn straight Dean is a centralist! And, I have been telling folks this.

And the majority of Dean supporters *know* this, so don't try to portray the liberal Dean supporters as conned-liberals. I and most other Dean supporters know that Dean is a moderate.

You need to *reread* my post. I in no way whatsoever lied about anything. And everything I said in my previous post is, to my knowledge, consistent with everything else I have ever posted on DU, including this post.

[He loved Big Brother]

47. Dean is a progressive.

We are a BIG TENT.

The amount of people his ideas would help vasty outnumbers the amount of people who would be hurt by his ideas. That is progressive.

[gully]

48. Dean is an 'individual' gasp!

"DEAN: I don't think I've run to the left. I am who I am, and I say who I am. I'm not saying anything different than I've said in my Governor's races. I don't think you run to the left or you run to the center. You go out there and lay out your ideas, and your ideas are the same in the primaries as they are in the general election. I'm more conservative on budgets and guns, and I'm pretty liberal on civil rights and health insurance and investing in children. People are just going to have to make up their minds if they can deal with all these different positions. I'm not unwilling to change positions based on facts, but I am unwilling to change positions based on polls."

Howard Dean doesn't fit neatly into anybodys box. He's progressive on some issues, centralist on others.

Go Dean!

[ozone_man]

51. Good quote to explain Dean.

I think it was the DLC or Lieberman types who painted him as a liberal. He is liberal in the ways that are important and a fiscal conservative, something that Bush is obviously not. As governor of VT, he would not have been referred to as a liberal, yet he helped pass civil union legislation.

I think that the direction Bush is taking the country will make someone like Dean more and more attractive over the next year.

[GeronimoSkull]

50. New Democrat kick

:kick: