Bush Could Use Political Capital on Immigration

[denverbill]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=8&u=/nm/20041111/pl_nm/politics_immigration_dc


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) appears ready to spend some of his newly gained political capital on immigration reform but could run up against fierce opposition from conservatives in his own Republican Party, analysts said on Thursday.

Last January, Bush proposed allowing some of the estimated 8 million to 10 million illegal immigrants in the country to gain legal work visas for at least six years.

"Our laws should allow willing foreigners to enter our country and fill jobs that Americans are not filling. We must make our immigration laws more rational and more humane," Bush declared at that time. But the White House did not push the plan hard in an election year and it went nowhere in Congress.
<snip>

[PrpgndBrdcstingSystm]

1. THey will play Bad Cop Good Cop

Bush will give an amnesty (he is after all a Cheap Labor Conservative) (not that I am all that much against an amnesty--I just think that illegal immigration ought to be shut down by punishing the employers who exploit them))

THen in 4 years when Frist or Guiliani or Ahnuld get in, they bad mouth Evil Bush who let in all the immigrants. That will get back disgruntled white rightwingers.

[denverbill]

3. No, they won't even bother.

Where was this issue in the campaign? Neither candidate talked about it.

Freepers are too stupid to remember this 4 years from now. Hell, 1 year after 9-11 they had forgotten it was Osama who attacked us and now 1/2 of America believes it was Saddam.

The 2008 election will be all about gay marriage and terrorism and God. Fear of Democrats will supercede their memories, their reason, and their own best interest, and they'll all fall in line against Democrats once again.

[wicket]

2. political capital my ASS

:mad:

[SammyBlue]

4. political capital. . .horse shit

Lack of paper trail makes all of this SUSPECT. And given Florida's history with Heir Jebber and Diebold saying that they will do everything in their power to "deliver Ohio's 21 electoral votes to the President" makes this entire election completely worrisome.

The only political capital Chimpy has is his last name.

[DBoon]

10. Capital can be stolen as well as earned

and Bush has a history of squandering monetary capital on failing business ventures. Why no do the same with his political capital?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorra]

6. I feel sorry for conservatives. They never seem to get the fact that the

republican party only serves corporate interests.

Year after year, conservatives keep banging their heads against the wall and elect republicans that deficit spend, trash the economy, restrict personal rights and civil liberties, and allow illegal immigrants to take away jobs from American citizens, etc.

Hopefully conservatives will someday wake up and realize they are repeating the same mistake while expecting different results.

[denverbill]

8. They will NEVER wake up. Being stupid is a prerequisite.

Anyone with more than 1/2 a brain knew exactly what was coming in 'Bush-The Sequel'. But did any conservative give a shit? Hell no. Their tiny little brains were all worried about gay marriage, terrorism, and God. They are too stupid to give a crap about their own jobs, their retirement security, their children's future, or even America's REAL national security threat (loss of our technological leadership).

[tsuki]

18. I have my doubts.

When I expressed my concern over this issue, that America was importing a slave labor force who would be at the whim of "moral corporate America" who would threaten any worker with canceling their visa if they did not do everything "moral corporate America" wanted...no one disagreed. In fact, they were absolutely against the measure. But no one criticized Bush, they started talking about Arizona's initiative, how it was all a librul conspiracy.

I feel like I have fallen through the keyhole.

[Triana]

7. Gotta get more of that cheap labor and Repig voters in here...

...that's his objective. bu$hit could give a rat damn about what is humane. He just wants to knock wages down further and get more Repig votes. How 'humane' is that?

I think illegal immigration needs to be stopped and the immigration process strengthened to make it more difficult for anyone to be and work here illegally - and THAT has direct ties to National Security - not that bu$hit gives a rat's ass about that, either.

[denverbill]

9. That's one of the problems with the immigration issue.

For Democrats and liberals, some see it as a humanitarian issue, or as a racial issue. I can understand that, to a degree. As much as anyone, I think it's wonderful when someone from a third world country is able to move here, help themselves and their family, and become part of the American dream.

Unfortunately, uncontrolled illegal immigration hurts American labor, legal immigrants, and even illegal immigrants themselves. Democrats and liberals should side FIRST with American laborers. Next, they should work for improved working conditions for laborers in foreign countries. Immigration needs to be controlled so as not to hurt American workers. It should be loosened in times of high employment, and cut back during recessions.

If the Democrats don't think about labor first, then nobody will.

[Triana]

11. I agree 100% (n/t)

[denverbill]

12. I wish we'd get a Democratic candidate who shared the idea.

IMO, if the Democrats had nominated someone who sided with labor on this issue, it would have been a MAJOR campaign issue in 2004 and Democrats would've walked off with a resounding victory. We would've split off huge chucks of working class Republicans.

[mitchum]

13. So do I (n/t)

[judaspriestess]

15. I agree also

as a Hispanic, my father came from Mexico back in the 50's, established himself here and led a very productive life.
Actually from what I gather a great life. anyway

Unfortunately nowadays the illegal immigration is out of control.
Thousands are streaming in every month. I was discussing this with another Hispanic friend and he feels the same, we definately need to tighten up the borders. It is to everyone's benefit.
Another thing that REALLY pisses me off, the Mexican government, what the fuck are they doing to better their country? not a whole lot except lining their pockets. They are like hey just head north and you'll get a job.

[primavera]

21. Actually, they don't really hurt American labor

Although it makes intuitive sense that cheap immigrant labor would hurt American labor and anti-immigrant groups love to fan the flames of that perception, the numbers don't really bear it out. Read a book called Imagining Miami, the author's name is Croucher, University of Virginia Press. The book represents a compilation of different methodological studies, drawing from economic models, labor models, and poli sci models, all attempting to prove that migrant labor hurts US workers. Yet, no matter what methodology was employed, no matter how much you twisted the data, there simply wasn't any way to sustain the conclusion that immigrants actually impacted the US work force. For the most part, migrants take jobs that US workers don't. US workers never apply for jobs as asparagus pickers in the Salinas valley, so giving those slots to foreign workers is no skin off the noses of American workers who wouldn't have worked those jobs regardless. In addition, the immigrant community generates its own new jobs. If an immigrant sets up a grocery store servicing migrant farmworkers, that's a business that would not have been there had the immigrant not set it up, so if they hire immigrants to work at it, how does it affect US labor? The immigrant community creates +1 job and fills it, net impact on US jobs=zero.

Admittedly, it's not quite that simple, no doubt a few Americans might have applied for jobs working in hotel housecleaning staffs, for instance, which is heavily dominated by immigrant labor. But at the same time they're also generating jobs for American workers as well. An immigrant working as a janitor for Marriott will eventually save enough for a down payment on a car, they'll buy a car made by an American automobile plant, from an American dealership, they'll get financing from an American bank, obtain insurance from an American insurance company, fill the tank of their new car with gas from an American gas station, and, it being an American car, will have to take it in for servicing at an American garage. They'll pay taxes on the car to American state and federal agencies. Now multiple that by 10 million immigrant workers and you've got a whole lot of new jobs being created to service that community's needs.

So, in conclusion, counterintuitive though it may seem, what the data bears out is that not only do migrant workers not adversely impact US labor, they actually contribute a slight benefit to US labor, in that they ultimately create slightly more jobs than they consume.

[BlueCaliDem]

14. Stop Illegal Immigration Like this...

...institute huge fines to employers that employ illegal immigrants!
Make them pay fines like two years of minimum wage for each immigrant caught, and fines that include paying workman's comp, state, and federal taxes in arrears, and 1 year of working along the borders.
See how quick we resolve the illegal immigration prob!
Remember, without demand there'll be no supply!
As long as there is demand, there'll be illegal immigration.
The right-wingers know this, and that's why they talk the talk, but don't do squat other than to demonize poor illegal aliens while they have their homes built cheap, their pools cleaned cheap, their bleating kids cared for cheap; their orchards harvested cheap...
It's always been about the moolah; the neo slavery environment we have in this country, and nothing else.

[tsuki]

19. To do that, they would have to

fine all the "moral corporations" that contribute to their campaign. Self-interest...the number one "moral value."

[politically lost]

16. GOOD NEWS: Americans still care about the issue of illegal immigration

Two points first off.

-Legal immigration and illegal immigration are two different things. They are comparable to inviting a guest to live in your house and having a burglar force their way into your home; one is welcomed, the other is illegal. Illegal means “against the law.” It means breaking the rules.

-We want immigrants who are willing to abide by our laws. By entering the U.S. illegally, illegal immigrants have proven to us that they are unwilling to play by our rules.

Immigration is one of the most important issues, which is over looked. Why does no political candidate take a stronger stand against illegal immigration? Anyone got an answer other than “Because of the Hispanic vote.” I’ve heard that one too many times. Below is a segment of the third presidential debate. I am happy to see Schieffer say “I got more e-mail this week on this question than any other question. And it is about immigration.” Good to see Americans still see illegal immigration as a problem. By reading below, does anyone really think either candidate had a plan to stop illegal immigrants?? I say they see them not as criminals, but as potential voters. I see them as lawbreakers and proof to anyone, including terrorists, that our borders are not difficult to penetrate. Would anyone actually object to using our military to defend our borders? Imagine....using the US military here in America to defend us.

SCHIEFFER: Let's go to a new question, Mr. President.
I got more e-mail this week on this question than any other question. And it is about immigration. I'm told that at least 8,000 people cross our borders illegally every day. Some people believe this is a security issue, as you know. Some believe it's an economic issue. Some see it as a human-rights issue. How do you see it? And what we need to do about it?

BUSH: I see it as a serious problem. I see it as a security issue, I see it as an economic issue, and I see it as a human-rights issue. We're increasing the border security of the United States. We've got 1,000 more Border Patrol agents on the southern border. We're using new equipment. We're using unmanned vehicles to spot people coming across. And we'll continue to do so over the next four years. It's a subject I'm very familiar with. After all, I was a border governor for a while. Many people are coming to this country for economic reasons. They're coming here to work. If you can make 50 cents in the heart of Mexico, for example, or make $5 here in America, $5.15, you're going to come here if you're worth your salt, if you want to put food on the table for your families. And that's what's happening. And so in order to take pressure off the borders, in order to make the borders more secure, I believe there ought to be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer to mate up, so long as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up in order to be able to fulfill the employers' needs. That has the benefit of making sure our employers aren't breaking the law as they try to fill their workforce needs. It makes sure that the people coming across the border are humanely treated, that they're not kept in the shadows of our society, that they're able to go back and forth to see their families. See, the card, it'll have a period of time attached to it. It also means it takes pressure off the border. If somebody is coming here to work with a card, it means they're not going to have to sneak across the border. It means our border patrol will be more likely to be able to focus on doing their job. Now, it's very important for our citizens to also know that I don't believe we ought to have amnesty. I don't think we ought to reward illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. And we ought not to crowd these people ahead of them in line. If they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too. And here is where my opponent and I differ. In September 2003, he supported amnesty for illegal aliens.

SCHIEFFER: Time's up. Senator?

KERRY: Let me just answer one part of the last question quickly, and then I'll come to immigration. The American middle class family isn't making it right now, Bob. And what the president said about the tax cuts has been wiped out by the increase in health care, the increase in gasoline, the increase in tuitions, the increase in prescription drugs.
The fact is, the take home pay of a typical American family as a share of national income is lower than it's been since 1929. And the take home pay of the richest .1 percent of Americans is the highest it's been since 1928. Under President Bush, the middle class has seen their tax burden go up and the wealthiest's tax burden has gone down. Now that's wrong. Now with respect to immigration reform, the president broke his promise on immigration reform. He said he would reform it. Four years later he is now promising another plan. Here's what I'll do: Number one, the borders are more leaking today than they were before 9/11. The fact is, we haven't done what we need to do to toughen up our borders, and I will. Secondly, we need a guest-worker program, but if it's all we have, it's not going to solve the problem. The second thing we need is to crack down on illegal hiring. It's against the law in the United States to hire people illegally, and we ought to be enforcing that law properly. And thirdly, we need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.

SCHIEFFER: Do you want to respond, Mr. President?

BUSH: Well, to say that the borders are not as protected as they were prior to September the 11th shows he doesn't know the borders. They're much better protected today than they were when I was the governor of Texas. We have much more manpower and much more equipment there. He just doesn't understand how the borders work, evidently, to say that. That is an outrageous claim. And we'll continue to protect our borders. We're continuing to increase manpower and equipment.

SCHIEFFER: Senator?

KERRY: Four thousand people a day are coming across the border. The fact is that we now have people from the Middle East, allegedly, coming across the border. And we're not doing what we ought to do in terms of the technology. We have iris-identification technology. We have thumbprint, fingerprint technology today. We can know who the people are, that they're really the people they say they are when the cross the border. We could speed it up. There are huge delays. The fact is our borders are not as secure as they ought to be, and I'll make them secure.

[meow2u3]

17. What the hell is this 'political capital' s#!t anyhow?

What is this supposed to mean in English?

[Ariana Celeste]

20. Maybe, just maybe...

Americans aren't filling the jobs BECAUSE immigrants will work for super low wages! Americans with dependants can't work minimum wage, and not all of us can afford to "go to community college" like Bush said we should... at least, not if we want to like I dont know- Pay our bills!!!

What a crock of SHIT! When the hell are we going to worry about our citizens getting jobs and making money?

Fuck you Chimp!