BBC: Falluja troops under heavy fire

[maddezmom]

US marines in Falluja have come under sustained attack from several different directions in the headquarters they have set up in the Iraqi city.
The BBC's Paul Wood, who is at the scene, said there was sniper fire from four or five points on the horizon.

The insurgents may have regrouped, he says, after US-led troops took over large parts of the city.

Another BBC correspondent says troops have pulled back from the city hospital, captured on Sunday night.

more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4003549.stm

[goclark]

1. I thought they raised the flag there!

[xchrom]

2. liberal media bias.

mission accomplished remember?

[whistle]

3. When Iraqis are engaging in the wholesale slaughter of Iraqis....

...that tells me that civil war is about to errupt. Falluhja is just the beginning.

[Dhalgren]

10. There will never be a real "civil war" as long

as the US is there. There will be the freedom fighters against the US and its Quisling creatures. Once the US leaves (and it will) then civil war will probably ensue. But a civil war would be better than what is happening, now. With a civil war, an end can be met - a partition of the country, a clear winning side, or reconciliation. But the occupation by a foreign army will never end until the foreigners leave.

[Jawja]

40. Just like Viet Nam.

A civil war that we butt into. Except we ignited this one.

[JSJ]

45. the americans' proxie fighters are mercenaries and will fold

[maddezmom]

4. Pockets of resistance ?? captured...looks like not

The BBC's Paul Wood, who is embedded with US marines in Falluja, says pockets of resistance remain even in areas the US and Iraqi forces have captured.

Troops are coming under sniper fire all over the city, he says.

Villages to the west of the city, thought by the US to be clear of insurgents, are also reporting sniper, mortar and rocket-propelled grenade fire.

[0007]

6. Holy smoke. 70% of Fallujah under U.S. control?

What will they say tomorrow?

[teryang]

9. "Pockets of resistance remain"

All over Iraq. This is what they have been saying since the invasion.

Did they "turn the corner yet?" What about the old dismissal, "these attacks are not tactically significant?"

[maddezmom]

11. they also say success in Fallujah won't end the insurgency...so WTF are

they trying to accomplish? The reason they gave going in was to break the back of the insurgents, so it would echo to all other cities...and then "free, democratic elections" could take place in Jan. Or did I miss something?? :(


FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. forces backed by an air and artillery barrage launched a major attack Thursday into the southern half of Fallujah, trying to squeeze Sunni fighters into a smaller and smaller cordon. The military estimated 600 insurgents have been killed in the offensive but said success in the city won't break Iraq (news - web sites)'s insurgency.


The Fallujah campaign has also sent a stream of American wounded to the military's main hospital in Europe. Planes carrying just over 100 bloodied and broken troops were arriving Thursday at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany. They join 125 wounded soldiers flown there already this week.


The large number of wounded sent to Germany suggests that fighting may be more intense — at least in some areas — than the military had initially indicated. Only seriously wounded troops are flown to Landstuhl.

~snip~

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=2&u=/ap/20041111/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

[teryang]

12. Stan Goff's answer

I posted the link to his November 10 article on counterpunch.org on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=84565&mesg_id=84571

Among the interesting commentary is an explanation.

[donkeyotay]

23. Oh, that's a great article

from the link:

That's the bad news, but that can be corrected, starting now, and starting with the sisters and brothers right here in this room. We cannot afford the luxury of crying about an election. We are in a struggle for the soul of our own society, a struggle against black-shirted reaction on every front, and there can be no rest, no retreat, no compromise, and no surrender. We cannot back down in the face of either their patriot-baiting or their Patriot Act. As Irish revolutionary James Connolly said, "The great only appear great because we are on our knees. Stand up."


http://www.counterpunch.org/goff11102004.html

[PsychoDad]

37. The military estimated 600 insurgents

have been killed in the offensive....


Many in diapers.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

25. You forgot the old Westmoreland classic--"There is light at the end of

the tunnel".

[5X]

5. Can you spell Quaqmire? n/t

[Flammable Materials]

7. Liars! Fox News just ran a piece on today's "Fallujah Freedom Picnic!"

The whole town turned out, and there was spin art and pony rides.

[Catfight]

19. LOL...pony rides? Camel rides! n/t

[Star]

21. The whole town turned out??? WTF

That must have been one hell of picnic. What's the population of Fallujah, anyway? I thought it was a tad larger than a town.

[NickB79]

33. Well, now it is

It USED to be ~300,000 or so (pretty big for the media to continually call it a town). Thanks to the US military, NOW it's just a town.

[Karmadillo]

8. Mission accomplished!!!

n/t

[Star]

13. OH, no, don't tell me we were suckered

Remember how "resistance from the insurgents is light" while we were racing to the middle of the city?

Don't tell me the troops are now in the middle of the city and the insurgents have surrounded them. Damn it!! Damn it, Damn it, Damn it!!

This sounds like a classic guerilla war - the colonies against the British, for instance. Lure your enemy into a weak position and attack.

Damn, I feel so bad for our guys over there.

[Guy_Montag]

14. I fear you're right.

Just glad our chaps are mostly not involved in this particular shit storm.

[annabanana]

15. "lighter than expected resistance"

Exactly as going into Bagdad to start with... "Leaders may have left the city before the offensive"....same as in Bagdad

an unending litany...

[sattahipdeep]

16. Fighting in Falluja rages amid confusion

Thursday 11 November 2004, 15:27 Makka Time, 12:27 GMT

Conflicting reports are coming from besieged Falluja, with
US-led forces saying they have tightened their grip on most
of the city and fighters saying they are still in control.

....
But Abu Shams al-Fallujy, a member of the National Islamic
Resistance in Falluja, told Aljazeera that US forces had
entered the city's centre rapidly because they were surrounded
in the Julan neighbourhood and were being targeted by snipers.
....
"The US troops say they have controlled the town. In fact, they
are only in control of the town centre where there are no resistance
fighters. The town's centre is resided by the civilian population
who had escaped the outskirts of the town to avoid a crossfire as
a result of the intense US bombing and resistance.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/BDA88E14-AA23-45FA-BE96-51730F9CA0B4.htm

[Porcupine]

30. Same tactics as Grozny....

Several times the Russians rushed into the center of Grozny facing only "light resistance" after massive bombing and artillery barrages. Each time the Chechens let them get bogged down in the center of town before popping out of sewers and steam tunnels and blasting their tanks to rubble with RPG's.

Too bad Americans don't read anymore.

[Larkspur]

17. I have no sympathy, only disgust, for the Marines of the 1st Division

They abused Iraqi horses before heading into battle, and I hope that Karma is a b*tch to them.

[0007]

18. Is it verbal or phyical abuse?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. There's a third form, you know. (nt)

[underpants]

20. Whatever

:grr:

[fedsron2us]

22. Smart tactics from the Iraqi resistance.

Their best chance in an uneven contest is to blur the battle lines and to get in amongst the US attackers. I suspect that whoever is organising the defence is more than just a crazy jihadi fanatic.

[Massacure]

24. Yup. They probably studied up on Vietnam.

[sr_pacifica]

26. Warfare for those without the big budgets for weapons. n/t

[NorthernSpy]

27. Exactly. Making it up close and personal neutralizes...

... the American airpower advantage, for one thing.

With what's going on in Mosul and Ramadi and the other cities, it's obvious that the American force is extremely shorthanded. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a wave of media stories intended to prime the American people for an upcoming draft.

[Forkboy]

28. Just a couple snipers can make things hairy and bog down

Fire a few shots,change spots,repeat.

[oblivious]

31. One sniper keeps 150 marines pinned down for a day.

Hard Lesson in Battle: 150 Marines Meet 1 Sniper

ALLUJA, Iraq, Nov. 10 - American marines called in two airstrikes on the pair of dingy three-story buildings squatting along Highway 10 on Wednesday, dropping 500-pound bombs each time. They fired 35 or so 155-millimeter artillery shells, 10 shots from the muzzles of Abrams tanks and perhaps 30,000 rounds from their automatic rifles. The building was a smoking ruin.

But the sniper kept shooting.

He - or they, because no one can count the flitting shadows in this place - kept 150 marines pinned down for the better part of a day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/11/international/middleeast/11snipers.html?ex=1101173825&ei=1&en=b33e20d7f56307e1

[Forkboy]

46. There ya go!

I'd like to say I know this because I'm smart,but really I use the tactic in wargames like Steel Panthers and stuff.It works in the games too :)

[LiberalCat]

29. Deja vu. Can you say "quagmire".

Not a cake walk? What a surprise (not). Those Iraqis do have spirit, don't they? I'll guess the "coalition" will just have to kill everyone in the city. This is just so sad.

[JSJ]

32. let's win one for shariff al-sadr, boys!- damn the USA!

[NorthernSpy]

34. Who are you trying to provoke and why?

Honestly, now...

[JSJ]

35. provoke is the wrong word- i'll accept inspire; as in iraqi defenders

They need all they can get; inspiration that is.

[leftynyc]

42. Let me get this straight

You want to "inspire" those who would install a fundamentalist government in Iraq. Those that would make women second class citizens. Is that right?

[JSJ]

44. that was crooked- i inspire only the defenders of their childrens' lives

[killbotfactory]

36. America voted for this

They'll soon learn to regret it.

What a clusterfuck.

[0007]

38. Without the intimidation that the insurgents brought.

Gen Richard Myers said on Thursday that the Falluja campaign was proving "very, very successful". We hope that in the next few days we'll be able to return Falluja to the citizens there without the intimidation that the insurgents brought."

[TheLastMohican]

39. Myers is an asshole

The Iraqi civilians in Falluja are daily intimidated by US bombing runs. Is he talking out of his ass?
Join the US or die is the motto. No need to hide under "bringing democracy and peace to MidEast" crap. They are showing their true colours.
The independent sources like BBC confirm that the marines are trapped in the city center.

[RuleofLaw]

43. How come everyone assumes that the

Iraqis are military inferior? What they lack in military hardware they make up for in experience. Remember this country fought for 8 years in a brutal war against Iran and then the Gulf War. While our troops have limited battle experience, the Iraqi are pro's at this. And, the Iraqi's have a country to defend. That alone is enough to motivate people to fight harder than someone who is there because he is ordered to be there.

[maddezmom]

48. I don't ..read this

Black Flags Are Deadly Signals as Cornered Rebels Fight Back
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/12/international/middleeast/12scene.html

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

47. Captured the hospital???

Hold the phone, I thought hospitals, ambulances, and the like were off-limits?

Oh wait, yeah, that was BEFORE. Back when the Geneva Convention was something we at least tried to follow.

So now do we just wipe our asses with it?

[pfitz59]

49. 2nd front in Mosul....

I read the "insurgents" have taken control of Mosul. US forces enroute.... Just like that gopher bashing game.. "Here I am, nyah, nyah!" Crazy keystone soldiers.....