Marines Believe they found sarin nerve gas in Fallujah?

[NC_Nate]

Heard it on NPR on my way home this morning @ 5am
Anne Garrels reported they found a suitcase with vials labeled in English "Sarin"....

went to npr homepage and listen to this..@ min. 2:25
http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ATC&showDate=10-Nov-2004&segNum=1&NPRMediaPref=WM&getAd=1
from the story

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4163601
she just mentions it briefly....

anyone else hear anything about this...
Even if it is nerve gass..the insurgents weren't there when Saddam was in power...and a suitcase full still isn't worth going to war over..

[rooboy]

1. You know, I HOPE they found sarin...

and I HOPE that the American people fall in behind the president and say he was some sort of fucking genius for invading Iraq.

Then he can draft every registered voter with an "R" on their card, safe in the knowlege that they're facing insurgents armed with SARIN...

[springhill]

25. I heard this thismorning on NPR.............

They thought it was sarin at first, but it wasnt't. Can't remember the exact explanation for it, but I believe it was something used if sarin gas was present.

[springhill]

26. Oh, and by the way,

The markings were written in ENGLISH.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Like the antidote you give yourself if exposed to Sarin?

A logical thing for any military to have since you never know what others may use on you.

[ET Awful]

2. Unless that briefcase weighed a few hundred tons and could be

launched against the US in 45 minutes, I don't wanna hear about it.

[Dem2theMax]

3. Well, if it was written in English,

anyone wanna bet it was put there RECENTLY by people who speak English as their first language? :eyes:

If they look on the inside of the suitcase, it probably has a sticker that says "Property of Halliburton."

[jdj]

7. it had to come from the U.S. in which case it's

probably really old.

Dust it for Rummy's fingerprints.

[mcgovern]

13. war

"If a lot of dogs are on the beach, the first thing they do is smell each other's asses.
The information that's gotten somehow makes pacifists out of all of them.
I've thought, 'If only we smelled each other's asses, there wouldn't be any war.'"

(Dustin Hoffman)

[struggle4progress]

37. That's why the US confiscated Saddam's UN arms declaration ...

a couple of years ago, isn't it?

[cmd]

4. Strange they haven't used it against us

We have had no qualms about destroying them.

[HeeBGBz]

5. It comes out at the same time as this story.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=116x8062

I really wonder what is going on over there.

[illuminaughty]

11. You just reminded me

of this report yesterday on Democracy Now. Oh yeah, we're using "white phosphorus rounds" which they said melts the skin. People were coming into the hospital with those conditions. They first tested this weapon in Panama and I believe it is illegal (internationally speaking)

We bombed the medical clinic that was put up to replace the hospital we bombed, killing 20.

Another proud day to be an American

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/10/1536241

[PaganPreacher]

15. White Phosphorus (WP)

Illuminaughty:

WP is much older than Operation Just Cause (1989). It's use in military munitions is not prohibited by international law or treaty; however, the use of WP in the manufacture of matches is prohibited by both laws and treaties, due to its chemical toxicity.

In the 7th century, Emperor Constantin IV's fleet deployed a catapult-launched incendiary device to destroy Saracen (Muslim) ships; it is commonly thought that device used phosphorus.

"Greek fire" shells of the American Civil War were made with WP. They had the nasty habit of exploding in the cannon barrel, or immediately upon firing.

The British, German, American and French used WP mortars and artillery in WWI. The Japanese also used them in WWII.

WP bombs were dropped on London, Hamburg, Dresden, and Tokyo in WWII.

The French, Vietnamese (later ARVN), Viet Minh/Viet Cong, and US used WP artillery and mortars in Viet Nam, and the US used WP-loaded rockets fired from helicopters. WP rockets were used to mark targets, and to ensure ignition of napalm bombs.

Some types of tracer ammunition are coated with WP. WP is also loaded into hand grenades and rifle grenades, and can be used to ignite enemy ammunition dumps for field destruction. WP is the incendiary ingredient in obscurant (smoke) munitions.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[illuminaughty]

23. Thank you so much for that. It explains a lot of my misunderstanding

So you're saying that WP is what they're using when we hear terminology such as "fire bombing"? Such as the massive fire bombing of 67 cities in Japan. I did not know that.
The reason I thought that they were referring to some fairly new technology is one, I'm ignorant, and two, I was thinking about "Operation Just Cause" (love that title, it is at least a triple entendre) and the documentary "Panama Deception".
Those weapons were a Lazar type that melted, almost disintegrated the people, but left their cars intact. That along with a weapon that caused people to hemorrhage to death. Do you know any details on that? The docu said Panama was a test ground for these.
Thanks for info. And I love your sig.

[PaganPreacher]

27. Firebombing, et al

Right! WP is one of the explosives used in firebombing.

The Germans invented the practice of firebombing. In the London bombing in WWII, the Luftwaffe dropped incendiary bombs (WP) and high explosive bombs (HE) on the city center and inductrial areas. The Allies used WP/HE combinations in firebombing of German and Japanese cities.

I haven't seen "Panama Deception." Can you give me a synopsis?

Awhile back, I read that the US Army used a sonic energy weapon in Panama, and that some sort of sonic weapon was used by the Feds at Waco. Not sure of any details, though.

I just read a little bit on Bob Lazar, and if I understand correctly, he was working on some kind of directed gravity weapon. Haven't heard or read about that before- it is very interesting! Thanks for pointing me to it.

Thanks for the compliment, by the way. Being Pagan, but not Wiccan, I sometimes have to deal with grief from both Christians ('turn the other cheek') and Wiccans ('do no harm'). Such passivity is definitely not part of my personality, nor my spirituality.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek

[illuminaughty]

30. Here's a link to "Panama Deception"

http://www.empowermentproject.org/pages/panama.html

There is a video store here in K.C. that dares to carry some of the most controversial documentaries. Have you seen "The Rules of Engagement"? I ask, since you mentioned Waco.

This one I found by accident but it has been highly praised by even the Washington Post. It is narrated by none other than the good witch herself, Ellizabeth Montgomery.

There is some amazing video that they managed to get out. And they parellel the video and interviews from Panamanians against the bullshit media story we recieved here in the U.S.

Some strange weapons were used indeed. And the civilian toll is undetermined, but thousands were massacred. Many mass graves have been found. Many corpses were bulldozed into the sea. Some mass graves are on U.S. occupied bases and they can't get to them.

You also mentioned Bob Lazar. Jim Marrs (author of Rule by Secrecy) has a theory that we went into Iraq not only for oil and occupation, but for the clay tablets and other info from Baghdad museum that dealt with anti-gravity technology associated with Annunaki.

And we may need more like you because our gov't doesn't play well with others. Bible also says eye for an eye.

[PaganPreacher]

31. KC?

I am only an hour from KC!

What video store?

I have "Rules of Engagement" on VHS. Scary. I have (poly and Pagan) friends who want to start an intentional community near Topeka, but were afraid that the neighbors would think they were a "cult" and call the law.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[illuminaughty]

34. Hey neighbor! I keep telling them Kansas is so not fucking red

The video store is called Video Library on 87th street in Overland Park. It is just West of 87th and Quivira. They have a lot of documentaries including a large collection they call UFO central.
Some are wonderful, such as the one with Zacharia Setchin, but others are complete crap...like some guy with a camcorder talking and pointing to a chart. It is a huge store with about 40,000 videos.

Isn't an intentional community kind of like a monastery or kibbutz?
I don't understand why people get so freaked out about the pagan religion. Just another topic people are ignorant about. I don't pretend to know a lot, but I sure as hell love the places it was practiced. I've lived in Egypt and Italy and I promise you the Italians just pretended to switch over to Catholicism. People have a pre-conceived notion about the beginnings of Christianity. But when you get in those catacombs, stretching for miles, with burial spaces stacked 4 high on either side of you, and you see where they gathered, burnt torches, and scratched the fish sign in the rock, well...I don't think they should be judging anyone's religious practices.

Head to Video Library. They're open til 1am on Fridays and Saturdays and 12am the rest of the time. Let me know how you like it.

[PaganPreacher]

35. Thanks for the info!

Kibbutzim, monasteries, and communes are all examples of intentional communities.

My poly/Pagan friends are currently part of a 6-member extended poly family, and want to move everyone together. They want to open a kibbutz-type polyamorous community of 6-10 adults, and their kids, on their farm outside of Topeka. They own a great property for it, with a pond and a big grove of walnut trees. I have enjoyed many a bonfire in their walnut grove!

How do I send my e-mail address? I am too new to send private messages, and don't want to put my e-mail address on the forum.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

41. Practicing Wiccan/Pagan

Thanks for not being brainwashed! It's not easy to avoid brainwashing these days! One thing you have to say for the pagans is we never knock on your door to prostelytise to you, and we never insist on having our symbols in courthouses, and we don't insist on a moment of naked prayer daily in the schools, we are sort of the "live and let live bunch"...these days, that should certainly be appreciated!

[bhikkhu]

38. Hyperbaric Bomb

I recall reading the pentagon confirming that hyperbaric bombs had been used in the second invasion of iraq, still considered experimental. I don't know the physics, but supposedly they could kill all the occupants of a building by rupturing a large percentage of their cells, while leaving the building intact.

[Ganja Ninja]

6. Did they find a receipt with Rummy's name on it?

Or maybe his initials on the briefcase.

[mth44sc]

8. Lets not forget this

little item from a week or so ago...

Rebels vow to use chemical weapons
Hala Jaber, Baghdad
November 01, 2004

AS the US reeled from the death of nine marines in Iraq at the weekend, insurgents in Fallujah claimed to have obtained chemical weapons and threatened to use them in any battle for control of the rebel stronghold.

Rebel commanders said chemicals such as cyanide had been added to mortar rounds and missiles that would be deployed against coalition troops reported to be preparing for a major assault on the town west of Baghdad.

A military committee made up of former officers in Saddam Hussein's army, including experts on chemicals and guerrilla warfare, is said to have been organising forces in Fallujah and planning tactics.

The committee is understood to include members of all the main insurgent groups, including that of Iraq's most wanted man, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader behind the beheading of several foreign hostages and a string of car-bomb attacks.

more

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11247879%255E2703,00.html

[underpants]

10. Psy-ops

ON America BY Americans.

I'll file this with the "Iraqi troops stole British uniforms" and "Chemical suits found in Iraq"-that one implied that they must have WMD since we found the suits......in a school house......still packaged......in the middle of nowhere.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. My pal here says he feels a disturbance in the Force.

[nyrnyr1994]

24. "For over a 1000 generations the jedi knights were the guardians...

of peace and justice throughout the old republic, BEFORE THE DARK TIMES, BEFORE THE EMPIRE..."

Still frightens me how prophetic star wars seemed to me, even to this day.

[Rose Siding]

12. Nov 1: "Looters overran chemical weapons site: report"

NEW YORK: Looters unleashed last year by the US-led invasion of Iraq overran a sprawling desert complex where a bunker sealed by UN monitors held old chemical weapons, American arms inspectors report.

Charles Duelfer's arms teams say all UN-sealed structures at the Muthanna site were broken into. If the so-called Bunker 2 was breached and looted, it would be the second recent case of restricted weapons at risk of falling into militants' hands.

Officials are unsure whether this latest episode points to a threat of chemical attack, since it isn't known if usable chemical warheads were in the bunker, what may have been taken and by whom.
..............
In its October 6 report, summarising a fruitless search for banned weapons in Iraq, Duelfer's group disclosed that widespread looting occurred at Muthanna, 55km north-west of Baghdad, in the aftermath of the fall of the Iraqi capital in April 2003.

A little-noted annex of the 985-page report said every UN-sealed location at the desert installation had been breached in the looting spree, and "materials and equipment were removed."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11249904%255E31477,00.html

[The Stranger]

14. "Sarin" . . . written in Karl Rove's handwriting

[priller]

16. The NPR story went on to say it was a sarin detection kit

Not sarin itself.

[truthisfreedom]

17. figures.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. It was completely UNCONFIRMED. I heard it too...like the way they

slipped that in? The same reporter, btw, claimed she only saw TWO DEAD civilians. ;-)

[zara]

19. NPR Reporter who made correction that a detection kit was found....

went on in story to continue to refer to finding Sarin.
Journalism these days...

[Javaman]

20. Just so you know...

Chems and bios are inherently unreliable as a weapon. They need strict situations in order to work properly. Low wind, low humidity, low sunlight.
A few viles isn't going to do much, that is of course they aren't highly concentrated amounts. Even then, if a vile was left open on a counter in a store, a person would have to be within 2 feet of getting sick.
If they were put in a mister and sprayed at someone, wind and humidity would still be at play. And the person would still have to get a pretty high dose.
Example, during WWI when phosgene, mustard, and sarin were used, the gas attacks were usually launched in the morning, into forests, on clear days. Morning: before the sun comes out, Forests: to cut down on wind, clear days: usually several days after a rain, low humidity.
Okay, suppose all of the conditions were met and someone used gas or bios, a person would have to receive a high dose in order to get the kind of injury that the gov't is warning us about.
WWI provides all sorts of stats regarding gas attacks, and yes they can be applied to bios. Upon, most gas attacks, soldiers usually ran like hell in the other direction. Since there is little to no wind in forests, the gas rarely spread beyond it's impact area.
The only time gas was effectively used was when gas was launched then it was followed by a rare line artillery barrage, so the soldiers didn't have a place to retreat to. Since most gases settle to the lowest point, the frighten soldiers would seek the safety of their fox holes, thus inhaling the gas.
This is why back in Japan when that cult leader set off the sarin in the subway, that was the perfect situation, no sun, no wind, and perhaps a little humidity. Closed environment.
As far as bios are concerned, these once again, have to be in such high doses to work that it becomes tough to manage them. This is in regards to water or food supplies.
There is a great book called, "Demon in the freezer", talking about the current state of the gas and bio stocks in the world. In it, they say the most effective way to spread bios is to have an infected host enter into the general population.
There is not protection against that.
In general bios, chems and dirty nukes are only effective when wanting to scare a pop. They really do little to no damage.
Like I stated on here a while back, the detonation charge to set off anyone of these three weapons would cause more physical damage then the weapon itself, it is the psychological effect, that chems and gas will have upon the pop to cause a long term impact, is the want of most terrorists.

[PatsFan2004]

21. Thanks for the lesson. It is a reminder that chemical

weapons work best against civilian targets in closed areas and not against well-trained military troops.

[mike_c]

22. it was apparently a sarin DETECTION kit...

...although after Anne Garrels reported this as confirmed, she subsequently refered to "the sarin" in her report on NPR. I don't know whether that was just sloppy or whether it was calculated.

My guess is that the truck this was found in, which was stuffed with weapons and explosives, was likely filled at a Republican Guard arms depot following the invasion and that the sarin detection materials were simply leftover from the bad old GW I days.

on edit: note too that the detection kits in the briefcase were labeled in ENGLISH.

[jmcgowanjm]

28. US using napalm, cluster bombs,everything short of nukes

And we still don't control Fallujah.

The way to see how situation is developing.

Take the Agitprop articles and flip them-inserting
US for insurgents, and that's what's going on.
Or what we're planning.

Like, how can the press put out torture stories-
"the slaughterhouse rooms", w/o mentioning
Abu Ghurayb.

We'll do anything to win, anything.

[leesa]

29. A suitcase full of 15 year old sarin with labels in English???

What a crock!

[DemBones DemBones]

33. No, a Sarin detection kit. nt

[AmyCrat]

39. Read This...

Hostage, 'slaughter house' discovered in Falluja
http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=11a4b04a-d0ee-4a42-8770-6fbc41951bf1
<snip>---While further analysis determined the find was probably part of a Soviet test kit with samples, the discovery of the deadly nerve gas in a room with mortar shells appeared to indicate an intent to weaponize the material.
---<snip>

[goodboy]

36. This is not the first time they ran this story is it? I remember them

"finding" Sarin before, and it turned out to be bullshit, just like everything else. A story like this does serve the purpose of keeping the Sheeple on board. What percentage of people believe we FOUND WMD in Iraq?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. Yeah...AND they found 20 megaton nukes hidden under the floors!!!