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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:12 PM
Original message
Europe's Policy Makers Fret Over Dollar Slide
LONDON (Reuters) - European policy makers voiced growing fears on Tuesday that the dollar's slide against Europe's single currency may jeopardize global recovery.

As the dollar traded near record lows against the euro, the European Commission warned that sharp exchange rate moves were bad for growth. It said the issue was certain to figure at next week's meetings of euro zone finance ministers.

In Britain, finance minister Gordon Brown told business leaders the currency gyrations posed yet another challenge to the world economy as it also grappled with high oil prices, trade imbalances and Middle East instability.

"All of you are having to cope with the doubling of oil prices, rising world commodity prices, uncertainty in the Middle East, large current account imbalances between Europe, Asia and America and the changing values of the dollar, euro and pound," he told a business conference in Birmingham, central England.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdge&storyID=6759879
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. So, what? We have Jesus!
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 09:19 PM by The Zanti Regent
Let's have the PRESIDENTIAL PRAYER TEAM™ lead us in the GOP Lord's Prayer!

Oh, almighty dollar,
you're all we're ever after,
For if it wasn't for you
We'd be in the Crapper.

AMEN
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VivaKerry Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. LMAO!!! n/t (yeah, so what, we have JESUS!)
*
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wouldn't the price of gas be less in Europe with the dollar dropping?
The price of oil is going up because the dollar is going down. Shouldn't hurt Europe that much. They can always drop their taxes!
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. wait until the oil is priced in euros the dollar will fall like a rock
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religiousleft Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Europeans won't drop taxes on fuel
gasoline has been at the 1 to 1.50 euro per liter cost for several years. It's a smart policy vis the social cost of driving, a revenue producer and, since virtually all Europeans have the option of public transportation there is little political pressure towards cheap gas.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Is that the price throughout the EU zone?
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 10:35 PM by Art_from_Ark
The high end is almost twice what it is here in Japan, where the gasoline tax is half the price at the pump and there are almost no domestic supplies of crude oil.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. No, the price of oil going up and dollar going down are independent,
I'm dumping my dollars now and converting to euro's while the dollar is still worth .72 cents.
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Weak dollar hurts European exports to the US
This hurts several sectors of their economy. It also shrinks the value of all their investments here. In general, stable prices for oil are preferred.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. When the price is in euros the price goes up for us not them
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Right
The price goes up for us so our demand will be less. When the dollar falls by 10%, a bottle of French wine or Spanish cheese bought in the US should go up by 10%. If they don't raise prices they will lose market share so they usually just leave the price the same and eat the loss. Japan resisted raising prices on their cars as long as they could but finally had to give in earlier this year.

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religiousleft Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. More interesting than fuel is the Dow
if you take a look at what the US stock market has done in the past couple of years if balanced against the fall of the dollar, you would notice that on an international level we have NO economic recovery. Our devaluation has created a fire-sale on US owned capital assets to foreign based multi-nationals who will have even less reason not to outsource US jobs.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Isn't Greenspan supposed to be doing something with the interest
rates tomorrow?
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Good point! Now that drunken monkey is in, greenpatsy doesn't
have to raise rates just to convince people the the economy is doing great!
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VivaKerry Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Yes, anywhere up to 2 percent increase.
Gee, he wouldn't have gauged ALL economic policy based on a 'before nov 2nd or after Nov 2nd' reading, would he? Nah? that would mean the federal reserve was controlled by the oval office. That wouldn't be nice. And Alan would NEVER stoop that low. Oh no. A 2% rise just HAS to be based on new economic indicators just in since Nov 3rd. Yep/
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. yes, but W. does not care about his Country, but only those who...
backed his campaign to steal the White House from the people!
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Europeans are massively concerned aout the deficit
and the weakness of the dollar, and are trying to figure out wys of getting out of their U.S. investments without adversely effecting their own economies.

The French are establishing military defense treaties with the Russian Federation, and in order to deal with the problems of high energy costs, the E.E.C. is trying to work with the Russians to establish an oil industry in the Arctic that will enable Europe to free itself from the need for Middle Eastern oil. reserves found in the Russian Arctic and north of the Caspian may turn out to be larger than the reserves in the Middle East and If the Europeans can get the upper hand over the United States in helping develop these reserves, the geopolitical balance may be changes massively

The German Government has already been considereing getting rid of all of their investment in U.S. Government bonds, and have already decided that they will stop investing in new U.S. bonds. Given the growing strength of the Euro against the dollar this may makethe E.E.C. the defacto world economic superpower. If they can form some mutual defense pact with Russia, thisaliance may be able to challenge U..S. super power status, Russai still has a large nuclear arsenal, and their military capabilit is still opretty good. There are stil a lot of tanks and a considerable air power lying dormant in the ex Soviet Union and the Bush adminiistrations failure to make hay while the sun shone by destroying the Russai nNuclear capacity may end if Europe decides to take joint responsibility for the Nuclear Weapons of Russia, in particular the remaining ICBM's and MIRV's A joint Russian/E.U. defense as a grand alliance of an EU/Rusain military force would be a formidable deterant to U.S. domination in the eastern hemisphere. May result in anEastern Hemisphere versionof the Monroe Doctrine in which a new superpower demands that no power outside of the Eastern Hemisphere has the right to interfere in the politics of that area. The French most certainly want to challenge US. world dominiation. and such an allience would give them the muscle to do so. Theinterests of Europe and European Russia arefar closer than any alliance with the U.S. and Europe is starting to surpass the United States as an economic superpower. The massive outsourcing of U.S. jobs, as well as the decline of the U.S. as an industrial power also is a massive weakeness of the U.S. that the Europeans are dying to exploit. Europe still has a significant industrial base, and a large portion of their outsourcing is done in nations that are geographically contiguous to Europe itself. Whle they do some outsourcing to India and China, they also do a large amount of outsourcing to the Balkans and the Ex Warsaw Pact Nations which greatly lowers their transportation problems, while the U.S. is withdrawing a lot of its outsouirceed industry from geographically close countreis like Canaada and Mexico, for places like China and India. This makes our economy far more fragile thantheEuropean economy and Again, Kerry's platform of keeping as much industry as possible in the continuental U.S. or at least in Nort American was a far wiser one. Bush is trading his obligations to big business for American Economic security.

Another Soviet prophecy may be coming true. When Kruscheve said that they would bury us. (economically) he could not have omageined that it would be due to alliances with Western Europe. America is desparately trying to prevent the formation of an E.U. military, and Russaian Allance would be a catastrophe from the PNAC point of vire. In fact the fall of the Soviet Bloc may be something that will be regretted by those who are claiming it to be one of the great accomplishements of Reagans neo con government. Most of the Warsaw Pact is and the Baltics are now a part of the E.U. All that would be necessary would be for the Russians to formsome alliance in order for the entire continental Europe up to the Urals to form a unified continental force. If Turkey joins as they wish to, this alliance will reach the borders of the middle east and be abvle to challenge the U.S for dominiations over the region. A far more powerful scenario than the conflict between the U.S. and the Soviet Union was.

Nations that currently support the U.S. in Iraq. like Hungary are pulling out of Iraq, in order to furtther their political ties with the E.U. as their joint interests are far more critical than their alliances with the U.S. If the U.S. is stuck in Iraq for more than a few years, it may find itself surrounded by a bunch pf histile nations who are far closer to the region that the U.S. is. and it may find that it has not bases cloe enough to support its interests in the Middle East
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not fooled Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. but...BUT...
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 10:44 PM by not fooled
...we are AMERIKA!!! We can do anything we want! And if they give us any crap, we just park some fleet of naval ships in the nearest harbor, right? Who cares about the rest of the world? Screw them!!

They can't possibly do anything to counter our divinely derived power, can they? Naw...and don't forget, God will strike down those sinner Euro or Asiatic bastards if they try anything.

Now THAT'S sound foreign policy!
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. Bigger reserves than the middle east? Good grief!
More ways to fuck up our planet.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Europeans are massively concerned aout the deficit
and the weakness of the dollar, and are trying to figure out wys of getting out of their U.S. investments without adversely effecting their own economies.

The French are establishing military defense treaties with the Russian Federation, and in order to deal with the problems of high energy costs, the E.E.C. is trying to work with the Russians to establish an oil industry in the Arctic that will enable Europe to free itself from the need for Middle Eastern oil. reserves found in the Russian Arctic and north of the Caspian may turn out to be larger than the reserves in the Middle East and If the Europeans can get the upper hand over the United States in helping develop these reserves, the geopolitical balance may be changes massively

The German Government has already been considereing getting rid of all of their investment in U.S. Government bonds, and have already decided that they will stop investing in new U.S. bonds. Given the growing strength of the Euro against the dollar this may makethe E.E.C. the defacto world economic superpower. If they can form some mutual defense pact with Russia, thisaliance may be able to challenge U..S. super power status, Russai still has a large nuclear arsenal, and their military capabilit is still opretty good. There are stil a lot of tanks and a considerable air power lying dormant in the ex Soviet Union and the Bush adminiistrations failure to make hay while the sun shone by destroying the Russai nNuclear capacity may end if Europe decides to take joint responsibility for the Nuclear Weapons of Russia, in particular the remaining ICBM's and MIRV's A joint Russian/E.U. defense as a grand alliance of an EU/Rusain military force would be a formidable deterant to U.S. domination in the eastern hemisphere. May result in anEastern Hemisphere versionof the Monroe Doctrine in which a new superpower demands that no power outside of the Eastern Hemisphere has the right to interfere in the politics of that area. The French most certainly want to challenge US. world dominiation. and such an allience would give them the muscle to do so. Theinterests of Europe and European Russia arefar closer than any alliance with the U.S. and Europe is starting to surpass the United States as an economic superpower. The massive outsourcing of U.S. jobs, as well as the decline of the U.S. as an industrial power also is a massive weakeness of the U.S. that the Europeans are dying to exploit. Europe still has a significant industrial base, and a large portion of their outsourcing is done in nations that are geographically contiguous to Europe itself. Whle they do some outsourcing to India and China, they also do a large amount of outsourcing to the Balkans and the Ex Warsaw Pact Nations which greatly lowers their transportation problems, while the U.S. is withdrawing a lot of its outsouirceed industry from geographically close countreis like Canaada and Mexico, for places like China and India. This makes our economy far more fragile thantheEuropean economy and Again, Kerry's platform of keeping as much industry as possible in the continuental U.S. or at least in Nort American was a far wiser one. Bush is trading his obligations to big business for American Economic security.

Another Soviet prophecy may be coming true. When Kruscheve said that they would bury us. (economically) he could not have omageined that it would be due to alliances with Western Europe. America is desparately trying to prevent the formation of an E.U. military, and Russaian Allance would be a catastrophe from the PNAC point of vire. In fact the fall of the Soviet Bloc may be something that will be regretted by those who are claiming it to be one of the great accomplishements of Reagans neo con government. Most of the Warsaw Pact is and the Baltics are now a part of the E.U. All that would be necessary would be for the Russians to formsome alliance in order for the entire continental Europe up to the Urals to form a unified continental force. If Turkey joins as they wish to, this alliance will reach the borders of the middle east and be abvle to challenge the U.S for dominiations over the region. A far more powerful scenario than the conflict between the U.S. and the Soviet Union was.

Nations that currently support the U.S. in Iraq. like Hungary are pulling out of Iraq, in order to furtther their political ties with the E.U. as their joint interests are far more critical than their alliances with the U.S. If the U.S. is stuck in Iraq for more than a few years, it may find itself surrounded by a bunch pf histile nations who are far closer to the region that the U.S. is. and it may find that it has not bases cloe enough to support its interests in the Middle East
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Do you have any English-language cites to the
French-Russian treaties?

Also, also, please try to find that letter from corporate America. If it got out it would absolutely get the intention of many, many people, including some who are for god and guns.

Thank you for the excellent, and scary, article.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. I posted links two or three days ago
Edited on Wed Nov-10-04 01:00 AM by Uncle_Ho_Ho
But cant google the articles now. There was one that had a story on French Troops going to Russai for joint trainng and that this was a reaction to the Anglo-American Axis that resulted with Iraq.

There is something in the right wing Washington Times referring to another "Franco Russian" alliace right now.

Russia and France are strategic partners



Moscow, Russia, Oct. 11 (UPI) -- Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov described Russia and France as strategic partners, after the two countries signed a military transport agreement.

It is not enough to call (current Russian-French ties) just a partnership, they are a strategic partnership," Lavrov said Thursday, the Moscow Times reported this weekend.

Lavrov was speaking after the signing of a Franco-Russian accord to permit French troops and military equipment being sent to Afghanistan to pass through Russia.

Russia and France have drawn closer over the past two years as both nations opposed the U.S. decision to invade Iraq and topple its president, Saddam Hussein.


http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041010-090250-9233r.htm

European governments are, moreover, choosing more and more to deal only with those who already agree with them. Witness French foreign policy. In the course of the Iraq crisis, Chirac managed to alienate America, Britain, Italy and most of Central and Eastern Europe. Now he seeks to build up Franco-German, Franco-Russian and even Franco-Chinese partnerships. Socialist politician Pierre Moscovici rightly characterizes this 19th-century-style diplomacy as a "quaint anachronism" that generates "all rhetoric and no results."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6408962/site/newsweek/


Just recently there have also been meetings of the new NATO-Russian Council as well, in order to work on a joint military alliance, right now the discusions revolve around joint anti-terrorism forces.()Met in Romania, France though not part of NATO participated)

Judst this week The French began a deal with Russia tp start some operation having to do with developing the Arctic oil fields after the problems that Russia had with Yukos. It is some sort of multi billion dollar deal with France, in order to keep American companies out of getting their hands into the Russian oil deal. (Company called Vinci, i think)




And I cant search through the archives of the aslt few days, espcially since I changed my signon name today.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thank you very much, Uncle Ho-Ho.
I sent your story and will send these articles to a friend who is very interested in European relations with Russia. I'll be interested in his reaction.

I look forward to your future posts.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. There were also a number of articles I didnt post but found
With Google, that indicated how the opposition of Germany, France and Russia to the Iraq war was causing them to forge muh stroinger political, economic, and military links.

There has yet to be a real tripartite union formed, but for example, theere are much stronger Frranco-German links being forged, with France and Germany more stringly advocating for the more rapid formation of a European Union Military force separate from NATO, And the same between France and Russia. Right now Russia, having been at one time, the worlds other superpower, is trying to muscle Germany, France and NATO, bt this is a lot of bluster, and inevitable they will form some kind of unions. France is the lynchpin, because they quit NATO, and therefore have little or no say in NATO operations with the United States, while at the same time, right wing hawks in the Washington are tying to foce NATO to bedissobved, because the right wing hawks see a stronger European miltary as a threat to U.S. hegemony. The U.S. is using the Anglo_American alliance to try to use the British Iinfluence in the E.E.C. to hamstring and stall the formatin of an E.U. m,ilitary in whihc the U.S. plays no part in the alliance and the Brits are stirring up all kinds of dopmestic opposiiton to Britain being a part of a United Europe Military because they are aware than the stronger te E.U becomes economically, the less powerful the U.S. will be in being able to exert dstrong influence in the eastern hemisphere:

November 26, 2001: #5565
#14
strana.ru
November 26, 2001
Russia and NATO to Be Equal Partners in The Group of "20"
The Alliance is concerned with Moscow's role in a new format
By Yuri Alexeyev

It is not accidental that NATO's Secretary General George Robertson decided to start his visit to Russia from Volgograd. The North Atlantic Alliance has not forgotten Russia's role in the struggle against fascism that was defeated as a result of active interaction between Russia and other members of the anti-Hitler coalition- the United States, Britain and France. NATO understands that Russia's role in a new coalition set up to combat against a new evil like international terrorism is also important. Therefore, the Alliance has agreed to elevate the level of cooperation with Russia.

Today, the civilized world has collided with new threats and challenges which no country or bloc can simply withstand alone. In the face of these new threats, the West has finally realized that its interests really coincide with Russian interests. The NATO secretary general emphasized at each meeting with Russian officials and journalists that the convergence of interests was not just declarative and had some objective grounds.

Mr. Robertson shared the opinion of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov that the Russia-NATO Joint Permanent Council had turned into a place for idle talk which leads nowhere. Everybody has become convinced of that, he added. Other mechanisms, new in form and in essence, are to be developed under these new conditions to effectively cope with problems like terrorism, extremism, drug trafficking and non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction as well as to find quick answers to other challenges whose nature is yet to be predicted and assessed. Officials in Moscow and the European capitals understand the need to create new mechanisms but the hard "Cold War" legacy is clearly preventing the West from believing that the Russian side does not have any intention to use the work within these mechanisms to produce a negative impact on NATO's internal processes.

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5565-14.cfm

Bush 'disappointed' by NATO stalemate
France, Russia, Germany unite on Iraq
Monday, February 10, 2003 Posted: 9:50 PM EST (0250 GMT)



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush pronounced himself "disappointed" after France, Germany and Belgium blocked a U.S.-led effort to begin planning to defend Turkey in the event of a war with Iraq.

"I don't understand that decision. It affects the alliance in a negative way ... when you are not able to make a statement of mutual defense," Bush said.

Turkey, the alliance's only Muslim member, immediately requested emergency consultations under NATO's defense treaty, believed to be the first time a member state has ever done so.

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld criticized the three nations for not supporting the U.S. initiative, saying they were preventing "NATO from fulfilling its obligation" to a member


http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/10/sprj.irq.wrap/

NATO Looking for New Ways to Engage Russia
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service

BRUSSELS, Belgium, Dec. 18, 2001 - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will meet with fellow NATO defense ministers to discuss how to fashion a relationship with Russia that's appropriate for the 21st Century.

Rumsfeld is following up on an earlier agreement between President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin to bring Russia more fully into the West. "The president and President Putin have both indicated a desire to find ways for Russia to interact with NATO in a way that is satisfactory from Russia's standpoint and appropriate from NATO's standpoint," Rumsfeld said. AFRTS Radio Report: SecDef speaks at NATO meetings in Brussels

Rumsfeld has said many times that the United States wants to get away from the atmosphere and relations that dominated the Cold War. He said he believes it's a new world, and Russia is no longer a foe.

Rumsfeld has said he would like to see relations with Russia conducted the same way as American relations are conducted with Canada or Japan.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2001/n12182001_200112182.html

Notice the Rumsfel language, they dont want to have to deal with Europe/Russia as a ninfied group, but preref to deal with each nation separately as is done with japan.

The U.S. strategy is the old divide and conquer. As the U.S. has had enormos say in European Defense as a senior partner in NATO, they strongly object to a European alliance which excludes the U.S. Freance and Germany jointly possess industrial base the the U.S. no longer posseses, and if the U.S. cannot control Europe, the European economy, will soon, if not already, outstrip the U.S. economic power. United Germany alone already has become far more formidable than it was divided.

When Bush took office, he was actively working towards disengaging with Europee, and agreements to pul troops out of Germnay, with the E.U. increasing its economic amd militarey responsibility for NATO demanded by the Bush Administration. The PNAC'ers beleieved that by forcing the E.U. to put a greater part of its domestoc product into the military, it would no longer be able to afford its social safety nets and socialistic leaning government, but this contained the danger of the U.S. losing control over Europes military policy. But after 9/11 and the war in Iraq, they have sytrted to regret letting up the hold on Europes defense, and by brining Russai into the mix, the need for a large amount of new military spending could be reduced. In fact, even if Euriope had to double the percentaqge of GDP given to military purposes, it would simply not have as great an effect on the European ecoom\y as it has on the U.S. economy. Europe simply wastes less of its money, bothas citizens and as nations, on the kind of three ring circus that American waste money on. Because of higher taxes, as a continene the government has far more money than the U.S. and it already has so much of a social safety infrastructiure that it sdoes not cost as much as the U.S. anticipated. PLus the fact that Europe is a more efficcient user of energy., relying on mass transit systems rather than personal transportation that they simply utilize there rsources more efficiently nad effectively than the U.S. Russia is beginning to see the advantages of moving from a freem market system, to the modified. Sicualist CApitalism of Western Europe, as again, it is a more eficient way to bring up the styandard of living of its own people, and even become a source of cheaper labor for Western Europe, while Western Europeans are trained for more technologically advanced jobs. The suporer greed of the rich in America prevcents any such efficiency, and the Governments in Europe far more efectively tax the rich without completely destroying the possiblity of wealth. Thereare millionaires in Europe, just not as many of them and far fewer with obscene amoutns of wealth. Thehigher taxes willcenable Europes to outstrip the U.S. It also provesthat lowe taxes are not necessrily the best way to stimulate economies or expand the middle class or move people out of poverty. Thiose "damned socialists" in Europe with their National Health and their unemploymenyt compensation afor as long as you are unem,ployed, and their retraining an relocating people who have lost their jobs in one field to move into another has done a site better than anything the U.S. has done without lowering taxes consideably. In fact lowering taxes in Europe caused more problems than it fixed.

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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. Most of the oils states
Are beginning to look at a policy of a single monetry unit for all Moslem Countries backed by gold. They are considering using tthe Dinar as a single monetary unit, a hard currenct backed by gold, and this currency wouod outstrip both the Euro and the Dollar for supremacy.The Euro is as string as it is againt the dollar because the E.U prohibits any country from running a dficit larger than something like 3.5 percent of GDP for longer than 18 onths without being fined or something like that. Germany and France have violated this but not by much, while the U.S. Government particualrly Bushhas ignored all of the attempts to prevent deficit spending that were so heavily fought for in the 80's and attempted to be follwed during the Clinton Administration. Because people like Bush nad his mega corporate supporters caneasily move their investments into safer currenctcies, they leave the rest of us to fall into a sort of economic slavery to their whims and to suit their purposes.

I really wicsh I could find the letter I recieved during the 2000 Bush campaign which came with some newsletters that my girlfriend got with some stock she was left. This was an ominous letter wher the top 30 corporations in the U.S. were discussing ways of getting a candidate elected who would reduce the U.S. labor market into something like the labor markets in China, with a labor force working for a subsistance wage, ending all need to provided benefits so that U.S. workers would be a work force driven by fear of imminent poverty.

Bush wa the darling candidate of these guys and part of the strategy was to temporarily bring the deficit up so high, the dollar down so far, that they could lower wages. cut benefits and run unemployment up so high that workers would accpet anythingf just to be able to live. Using international political distraction was also a part of the discussion. It was frightening, and the publication is someplace bureid with papers arounbd here and if I can find it I will get a reference to it here. When we read it we didnt beleve that it wsa possible, juist wishful thinking on the part of rich people, but given everything that has happened since Bush got elected, so much of Bush's administration seems to be following the content almost to the letter that I think about this publication a great deal I first remembered the thing abvout the time i first joined DU and have been going nuts trying to find it ever since.
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VivaKerry Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. oooo, this is the first I have heard about petro-dinars!
Thanks for the great analysis.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. Most of the oils states
Are beginning to look at a policy of a single monetry unit for all Moslem Countries backed by gold. They are considering using tthe Dinar as a single monetary unit, a hard currenct backed by gold, and this currency wouod outstrip both the Euro and the Dollar for supremacy.The Euro is as string as it is againt the dollar because the E.U prohibits any country from running a dficit larger than something like 3.5 percent of GDP for longer than 18 onths without being fined or something like that. Germany and France have violated this but not by much, while the U.S. Government particualrly Bushhas ignored all of the attempts to prevent deficit spending that were so heavily fought for in the 80's and attempted to be follwed during the Clinton Administration. Because people like Bush nad his mega corporate supporters caneasily move their investments into safer currenctcies, they leave the rest of us to fall into a sort of economic slavery to their whims and to suit their purposes.

I really wicsh I could find the letter I recieved during the 2000 Bush campaign which came with some newsletters that my girlfriend got with some stock she was left. This was an ominous letter wher the top 30 corporations in the U.S. were discussing ways of getting a candidate elected who would reduce the U.S. labor market into something like the labor markets in China, with a labor force working for a subsistance wage, ending all need to provided benefits so that U.S. workers would be a work force driven by fear of imminent poverty.

Bush wa the darling candidate of these guys and part of the strategy was to temporarily bring the deficit up so high, the dollar down so far, that they could lower wages. cut benefits and run unemployment up so high that workers would accpet anythingf just to be able to live. Using international political distraction was also a part of the discussion. It was frightening, and the publication is someplace bureid with papers arounbd here and if I can find it I will get a reference to it here. When we read it we didnt beleve that it wsa possible, juist wishful thinking on the part of rich people, but given everything that has happened since Bush got elected, so much of Bush's administration seems to be following the content almost to the letter that I think about this publication a great deal I first remembered the thing abvout the time i first joined DU and have been going nuts trying to find it ever since.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. That is truly scary. All the pieces fit right down to media cooperation
with the Bush plan. Don't you know that they just laugh their collective asses off at the masses who vote against their own self interest.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. After some correspondence I've had, I'm not convinced that
a lot of them are worried. They plan to sell off
US investments ( essentially short them ), and buy them
back dirt cheap when the US economy resembles Mexico.
These are europeans, they know history, and they konw
the cost of impearialistic wars. Too bad our drunken
monkey doesn't believe in history.
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