Ohio Is Set to Reckon With Outstanding Ballots

[papau]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-ohio9nov09,1,5782472.story?coll=la-news-a_section

Ohio Is Set to Reckon With Outstanding Ballots
Experts and Kerry campaign officials agree provisional and overseas absentee votes won't change outcome, but the count draws scrutiny.
By Ralph Vartabedian and Henry Weinstein
Times Staff Writers

November 9, 2004

<snip>Nonetheless despite it being unlikely state winner will change), the Ohio count is attracting scrutiny by groups who say the election was tainted and that voting equipment in Ohio, Florida, South Carolina and elsewhere was defective. On Friday, three congressional Democrats asked for a federal investigation.

Since the election, Internet sites and political blogs have buzzed with speculation that the vote was manipulated. "Evidence mounts that the vote may have been hacked," reads the title of one widely circulated Web offering.<snip>

If 10% of the provisional ballots were rejected, Kerry would need to get 97.6% of those remaining to overcome Bush's lead.<snip>

Counting of the provisional ballots is expected to begin Saturday, although state law allows counties to delay the canvass until Nov. 18, said James Lee, Secretary of State spokesman. Ohio, however, faces a Dec. 7 deadline to finish this process so that its electors can cast their electoral college votes Dec. 13.<snip>

Based on reports that Dill's organization — Verified Voting.org — has received, one precinct in Youngstown, Ohio, recorded a negative 25 million votes, which was discarded from official results. And it was widely reported after Nov. 2 that a North Carolina precinct lost 4,000 votes when a recording device used up all its memory but voters continued to cast ballots on the machine.

[spotbird]

1. Have the absentee and overseas votes been counted?

In Ohio?

[roseBudd]

14. They will be counted on Nov. 12 must be postmarked by Nov. 2

[spotbird]

23. Do we know how many of them there are?

They may mean more to this puzzle than the provisionals.

[roseBudd]

31. In Hamilton County there are about 13,000

In the entire state there are reportedly about 150,000. That is provisioanals NOT absentee.

The expat vote should be big for Kerry but military vote could water it down.

[spotbird]

33. How many absentee and overseas?

That seems to be the $64,000 question.

[zbdent]

26. We should point out that any military ballots from heavily dem areas

with smudged, bad, or "late" postmarks (if at all) are to be counted, as was the standard for the Repukes in Florida. Any concerns about the military ballots being invalidated should be met with the same venom and arguments that the Repukes gave Gore.

Even if they might be for Bush (from a Dem precinct?), it's their standard!

[2Design]

2. kerry lawyers are not fighting for us - they have abandoned us

<snip>
Attorneys for the Kerry campaign said Monday that they did not believe the outcome of the Ohio vote — which gave President Bush the electoral votes needed to win — could possibly change; they have discouraged speculation that voting irregularities caused Kerry's loss
<snip>

[NJ_Lib]

4. Kerry attorneys discouraging fraud allegations?

Ok, now I'm pissed...

[rodeodance]

12. The spokesperson for Kerry is not discouraging investations---

into any fraud.

I read it as only not to get our hopes up --for a win for Kerry.

[rodeodance]

9. This is NOT about Kerry wining or losing

There has been a lot of speculation about Kerry's lawyers working behind the scenes. And that is all it has been.
I am glad that a major newspaper is coving possible voter fraud--even if it a lukewarm article.

[krkaufman]

3. And then there's this....

When will the reckoning for this tragedy come?

[eleonora]

5. this is just crazy. Where was it?

[NJ_Lib]

6. Oh my God, where is that picture from?

Or do I even need to ask?

[krkaufman]

11. It's a snapshot from MSNBC's election night coverage

Foolishly, I just deleted the original off of my DVR, so I don't have the timestamp, anymore.

However, I *can* say that it came from the "Chris Matthews Decision 2004" program on MSNBC (based on the filename), and recall verifying at the time that it was of an Ohio polling place.

Sorry for the lack of tangible details. I'd forgotten I'd snapped it, and neglected to take notes on the segment -- or have forgotten where I stored them. Same unfortunate diff...

[eleonora]

20. This reminds me of what some friends told me

This is from Indiana mind you, but I know of people living in the same building who went to vote, but the wait was so long they gave up and went back home/had to go back to work. Just how many people did this happen to, no one will ever know.

Enough to change the outcome of the elections I assume.

[krkaufman]

24. Yep, that's very likely...

... given that these lines typically (almost exclusively!) occurred in Democratic precincts.

Have you heard the one about the precinct where registrations were way up relative to 2000 -- so they provided 2 voting booths this year, down from 5 in 2000? Accidental? I think not.

[Toucano]

21. Warren County, Ohio. n/t

[signmike]

7. What IS that?

It looks like the line to ride The Matterhorn at Disneyland.

[Tesibria]

22. that's the voters' line in Ohio -- near Cleveland I believe .... nt

--------------------
Store: www.cafepress.com/tesibria.com (All proceeds go to buy PROGRESSIVE books and magazines for small town ("red") library.)
Blog: www.democracyiscoming.com

[Iceburg]

32. That photo is sadly reminiscent of South Africa 1994 (compare photos)

That photo is sadly reminiscent of South Africa 1994


April 28, 1994 -- South Africa Votes

The only difference between the 2004 USA election
and SA's 1994 first democratic election, is the
legitimacy of SA's election outcome.

[ecoalex]

8. Provisional ballots plus absentee ballots, plus amn accurate vote count

Should put Kerry on top in Oh. I would think. Are there any estimated vote counts , not using the flawed county results? One could use exit polling , and registered Dems data to estimate.The official county results are flawed.

[Lalock]

36. Most of the provisionals will probably be thrown out

I was a poll worker in Cuyahoga County, and I know from personal experience that the provisional ballots were being filled out incorrectly for most of the day. There was a lot of confusion on the correct procedure, and we didn't find out until around 3 in the afternoon. By that time, 9 of the 11 provisional ballots in our precinct had been filled out incorrectly. Those will be thrown out.

All 6 districts in our room were filling them out the same way. Tragic, huh?

[TahitiNut]

10. Time will run out.

The USSC tactic of December 12, 2000 was to allow 2 hours to do a state-wide recount. The obscene hypocrisy was astounding. The votes were never counted - because time ran out on a clock that was set to disenfranchise the People.

The same will happen in Ohio this year. The state elections officials will not allocate sufficient resources to accomplishing a complete and valid count in time for it to have an electoral impact.

[LisaL]

13. Negative 25 million votes?

Is that for real?
Based on this alone, how can anyone in their right mind declare that this election went smoothly?

[seemslikeadream]

15. more from the article

But irregularities and problems have cropped up nonetheless.

On Friday, officials in Franklin County — which includes state capital Columbus — acknowledged that they may have improperly counted votes for Bush because of a touch-screen voting system malfunction. A precinct in the county reported that a 4,000-vote margin won by Bush appeared to exceed the number of registered voters.

The touch-screen system in Franklin County is among the oldest and least reliable electronic voting machines in use, said David Dill, a Stanford University computer expert.

Asked how an electronic voting machine could run up nearly 4,000 extra votes, Dill said a variety of factors, including an internal misalignment or static electricity, could cause such an error.

"The point is that these machines are nowhere near reliable enough to depend on," Dill said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na...

[LisaL]

25. Well, there you go.

Did Bush get elected by static electricity?
:eyes:

[karlrschneider]

37. Static brain "elected" by static electricity. Of course.

How obvious.

:eyes:

[shcrane]

16. As Randi Rhode's says,

"You don't stand for 8 hours in a line to vote for more of the same."

[NJ_Lib]

18. I disagree...

I have to say, this is about the only thing I disagree with Randi about...

Most Repukes I know would stand in line for 3 days if it meant putting Chimpy back in office and beating Kerry...

[demodonkey]

28. I disagree with your disagree

<Most Repukes I know would stand in line for 3 days if it meant putting Chimpy back in office>

I'm a poll worker in a WASPy yuppie area (once rural, now suburban sprawl). The Repukes especially those w/kids get VERY restless (and blame us!) if it's more than about a half hour or so wait... wouldn't want something as trivial as VOTING to interfere with the soccer practice, dance lessons, play dates, etc etc.

Also most RARELY vote unless it's the Presidential General Election. (Avg. election turnout about 28-30% in oour poll, Presidential elections usually 70-80%) 78.8% this time

[FormerOstrich]

17. I don't understand...

every time the talk about this we hear how 90+% of the provisionals would have to be for Kerry to change the outcome. However, we don't know how many absentee ballots their are, nor what sort of realistic split they would have. Are they military votes? American citizens living abroad?


Ohio election officials said Monday that they would begin this week the final count of 155,428 provisional ballots and an unknown number of overseas absentee ballots that were cast in the presidential election.

How can the number of these be unknown. Wouldn't they at least know the absolute maximum (since that would be the number provided)? Why is it they are so mum on these? Is it they are afraid the military vote might be pro-Kerry and just as soon that not get out? Have we heard any military voting results from anywhere?

Lastly, I have never really bought into the Kerry team working behind the scenes until this article. I know when I am spreading the word to my friends and family I start by the "programming errors" make the results invalid. I honestly think I'd get no where if I started talking the "f" word. After they chew on the bugs then I start giving them the history of the machines...still no "f" word. Eventually, the light comes on and they start talking like it might be easy to hide stuff.....well you get the picture.

I have also noticed posts on other boards and LTEE saying that the really appreciated how Kerry did the "right thing" by not dragging it on. All of them claimed to have a sudden new found respect for showing that he didn't always "put himself first" and "Gore didn't care about tearing the country apart".....go figure.

Then again, maybe I'm just comforted to know they are least talking about it even if it is to say No Big Deal....

So what about those absentees?

[mtnester]

35. I was an Election Protection volunteer, Franklin County OH and can tell

you that a huge portion of the kids voting at Ohio State had to vote provisionally. This was heavily discussed in shift changes. I also understand that this happened at many of the college campuses in the state. And, in the outside precincts, most of the provisional voters that asked for clarification from us while waiting in 5-7 hour lines in the cold wind and rain were KERRY voters.

I was non-partisan (that day) but only listened to people talk.

As for absentees, some counties have counted, some not...mine was absentee and it was a KERRY vote.

All you had to do was stand and listen to these voters....they VAST AND HUGE majority in the lines I was involved in were for Kerry (Franklin County Ohio, Precincts 2a and 3c primarily)

I watched people belate back to work, late back from lunch, kids miss class, people late to everything, lines with 500-600 people in them, all standing with stiff spines in the cold rain for many hours, people collapsing after coming out of the line, ambulances taking people out, poll workers NOT offering curb side voting, but then placing disabled people at the back of the line (we fixed that in 4 precincts, one with a court injunction)...I PERSONALLY watched a Repub poll watcher call the sheriff and TELL him that Election Protection and the NAACP were stealing ballots from the polls (it was not, it was our poll kit), and then also call again when one of us went for our first bathroom break inside the building in more than 12 hours. I MYSELF was involved with the head poll worker as he spoke to the Franklin County Sheriff and the Franklin County Prosecutor's office when they called to ask about these calls. The poll worker said without us helping them outside, they would have been lost, they loved us, the crowd CHEERED us, strangers brought food, blankets, water, ponchos, candy, snacks to the people waiting in line. The last person in line at 7:30 when polls closed, voted after midnight.

And ANYONE thinks these folks came out to vote for Bush? Hardly. Conceding allows the votes to be counted, because had he not, every provisional ballot in the state would have ended up in the garbage heap courtesy of SCOTUS. Right now, as long as it is being watched and hashed out, more will be done because you all know how the courts handled it last time. I know this is not perfect, but better than if the courts were involved.

[pansypoo53219]

19. plant the seed

fertilize and watch it grow.

VOTE-GATE by 2006!

[bufffbison]

27. 233 votes not counted does not affect races - Darke county ohio

http://www.earlybirdpaper.com


233 votes not counted does not affect races
By Ryan Berry - Managing Editor


GREENVILLE - If you were one of the first 233 persons to vote in Precinct 3-A in Greenville, your vote for contested races did not count. According to a release by Darke County Prosecuting Attorney Richard Howell, the first 233 votes cast in Greenville 3A were determined to be invalid by Secretary of State.
Apparently not long after the polls had opened, there was a substantial line of electors waiting to vote in Greenville 3A, with no similar line for Greenville 3B. In an effort to accommodate the waiting voters, a poll worker borrowed one of the Votomatic polling booths from those designated for Greenville 3B, adding it to those in use for Greenville 3A. Unfortunately, the worker failed to realize that booths must be kept separate due to a difference in the location of the various contested candidates as they appear on the ballot. For example, in Greenville 3A, George W. Bush appeared at the top of the ballot followed, in order by John F. Kerry, Michael Anthony Peroutka and Michael Badnarik. In Greenville 3B, Kerry's name appeared at the top of the ballot, followed, in order, by Peroutka, Badnarik and then Bush. As there is no precinct number or other identifiable markings on the punch cards given to each voter, this process requires the punch cards from each precinct to be separated from those from any other precinct until such time as they can be counted by a computer, which matches the punched holes with the candidates names as they appeared for that particular precinct.
Because the ballots were co-mingled, all 233 were contaminated and therefore were invalid on contested races. According to Howell, the error did not effect the vote on the two Greenville City income tax issues, the Ohio Constitution issue, or the uncontested races.
Although the votes were not counted, they do not seem to have had a major impact on the Darke County Commission races. Robert Downing (R) retained his seat in a three-way race with David Niley and Norman Warner. Downing took 12,312 votes to Niley's 9,112 votes and Warner's 3,229 votes.
Michael Rhoades (R), the incumbent commissioner, handily defeated John Vehre with 70-percent of the vote. Rhoades finished with 16,949 votes. After the votes were tabulated, Rhoades noted he was very happy with the results. He credits doing what his constituents want and listening to their concerns as the reason for his victory. However, the financial crisis the commissioners faced the past couple of years will continue to play a major role in how the commissioners run the county. “We are going to keep an eye on spending and I think we'll be okay,” he said. He noted tax receipts continue to look good this year and the commission is convinced there isn't a need for a sales tax increase. He also pointed to the new Lowes store and the prospect for additional revenue from sales tax receipts.
Greenville voters partially supported the city's administration plea for financial help. Voters pushed through Issue 10, a 1/2-percent income tax for general operating expenses with 52-percent of the vote. However, Issue 11, a five-year, 1/4-percent income tax for capital improvements went down to defeat with 3,078 votes.
Greenville Mayor Greg Fraley believes the city needed approval on Issue 10 to continue providing good services to its citizens. The defeat of Issue 11, according to Fraley, could delay many infrastructure projects and cost the city more in the long run. Fraley also believes council will continue with its plans to offer a tax credit to Greenville residents. He thanked the Greenville community for its support on Issue 10.

[seemslikeadream]

29. Liberty or DeathFighting the Stolen Election of 2004

A Sit-In of Massive Proportions

http://www.freewebs.com/libertyordeath/index.htm

[loudsue]

30. I just have ONE (to me, OBVIOUS) question...why can't Fed. Investigators

go into these districts and impound some of these vote counts, and see what's going on inside the turmoil???

Who can order an investigation if the Justice Dept. WON'T??

There is WAY TOO MUCH evidence that things are being done improperly concerning the two swing states of Ohio and Florida. It should require some Federal Investigation to move in NOW...not after these ballots are "thrown out" willy nilly.

:kick::kick:

[Divine Discontent]

34. cia?

otherwise who cares in our govt, as bushy controls it all, you dont think our "top cop" gives a damn do you?

anyone with close ties to DU team themselves? I was wondering if after Dec. 12 or whatever deadline, that if NOTHING comes from these reports, that someone will organize a 10 million voter march on Washington to demand honesty, non secrecy (like in that ohio county that was counted at the END of the night and went heavy bush to help further the very decisive lead) and all the machines being made by a group of companies together, not just one. I'd go!!!

[loritooker]

38. Ohio vote count

Hi, I just want to add that I am so happy that this investigation is happening. I have "vote fraud" signs on my car and I'm talking about it to everyone I meet. The media is starting to cover it.

[daydreamer]

39. You are what I called a true American