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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:30 AM
Original message
Oregonian says he told military about looting of weapons
--snip--

Two U.S. aid workers, including one from Oregon, said they reported the looting of an Iraqi weapons depot to U.S. military officials in October, 2003, but were told that there were not enough troops to seal off the facility, The Oregonian reported in its Friday editions.

"We were outraged," said Wes Hare, city manager of La Grande, who was working in Iraq as part of a rebuilding program. A colleague, Jerry Kuhaida, told the newspaper it appeared that the explosives at the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area had found their way to insurgents targeting U.S. forces.

"There's no question in my mind that the stuff in Ukhaider was used by terrorists," Kuhaida said from his home in Tennessee.


The men said they informed Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, but were told that the United States lacked the troops to guard the facility, which had more than 60 bunkers packed with munitions.

--snip--

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_102904_news_iraq_weapons.4da9b88.html

Spread it...


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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks to hnsez for finding it....
Get this out to the media.
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MostlyLurks Donating Member (738 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Man, am I wearing the tinfoil hat or what?
Something seems not quite right about this.

"Kuhaida" sounds like "al Quaeda".

The guy's last name is "Kuhaida" and the facility is "Ukhaider".

THIS IS ALL A ROVIAN DISINFORMATION PLOT...

Man, we got to defeat these guy on Tuesday - I don't think my brain can continue to function at this level of conspiritorial gear-spinning for another four years.

Mostly.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. more from link
"The big concern we had was that something had to be done," Kuhaida said. "It was all fresh ammunition and gunpowder." So Kuhaida pledged to try to contact Sanchez, who was commanding U.S. forces in Iraq at the time. He found Sanchez's e-mail address on the Internet and sent a message saying he wanted to pass along some information.


When one of the general's aides replied, Kuhaida sent a list of munitions found at the depot, along with coordinates of its location. And he urged the military to secure the site. The aide sent an immediate reply that said "they were taking action," Kuhaida said.


But when Kuhaida met the aide face to face in Baghdad a month later and asked about the depot, the aide told him the military simply didn't have enough troops to guard the site.


"There's no question in my mind that these guys were sincere about it," he said of their desire to keep munitions from falling into the wrong hands. "They just didn't have the resources."


U.S. military and intelligence officials were well-aware of the facility. Declassified documents from the first Persian Gulf War show that it was bombed in 1991, as a suspected storage site for biological weapons. On Jan. 16, 2003, before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, U.N. inspectors said they found 11 empty chemical warheads at Ukhaider. They said at the time the complex consisted of a series of bunkers built in the late 1990s.

more
http://www.kgw.com/iraq/stories/kgw_102904_news_iraq_we...
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is very serious stuff
it's an AP story and yet I'm not finding in in too many places. Worthy of a media blast??
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Alpharetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yahoo story
two U.S. aid workers who say they reported looting of the site to American military officials.

The aid workers say they informed Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the highest-ranking Army officer in Iraq in October 2003, but were told that the United States did not have enough troops to seal off the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area, which included more than 60 bunkers packed with munitions.

"We were outraged," said Wes Hare, city manager of La Grande, Ore., who was working in Iraq as part of a rebuilding program.

A colleague who also visited the depot, Jerry Kuhaida, said, "There's no question in my mind that the stuff in Ukhaider was used by terrorists."

From LINK:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1520&ncid=1520&e=3&u=/afp/20041029/pl_afp/iraq_us_explosives_041029160137

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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I think your link is incorrect...
it goes to a story about the removal of the 200 tons.
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Alpharetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Sorry. Here's the link. Times-Picayune story
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1099033085222160.xml

2 civilians say they reported weapons depot
Friday, October 29, 2004
By Mike Francis
Newhouse News Service
Six months after the fall of Baghdad, a vast Iraqi weapons depot with tens of thousands of artillery rounds and other explosives remained unguarded, according to two U.S. aid workers who say they reported looting of the site to American military officials.

The aid workers say they informed Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the highest-ranking Army officer in Iraq in October 2003, but were told that the United States did not have enough troops to seal off the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area, which included more than 60 bunkers packed with munitions.


"We were outraged," said Wes Hare, city manager of La Grande, Ore., who was working in Iraq as part of a rebuilding program.

A colleague who also visited the depot, Jerry Kuhaida, said, "There's no question in my mind that the stuff in Ukhaider was used by terrorists."

More at link:
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1099033085222160.xml

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. needs to be sent to CNN, ABC, CBS, BBC, NBC, (skip FOX), WP, NYT, etc (nt)
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 12:39 PM by w4rma
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GoBlue Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. Jerry Kuhaida
Former Mayor of Oak Ridge, TN.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Link that does not require registration:
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 12:34 PM by Zorra
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. THIS IS FOR REAL....THIS IS NOT AL QAQAA, BUT ANOTHER SITE
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 12:37 PM by Stevie D
PLEASE READ! Note, this is NOT Al QaQaa, but ANOTHER weapons site. The story has been simmering for MONTHS. This story was compiled by an Oregonian reporter...

<snip>

U.S. left ammo site unguarded
Friday, October 29, 2004

MIKE FRANCIS

Six months after the fall of Baghdad, a vast Iraqi weapons depot with tens of thousands of artillery rounds and other explosives remained unguarded, according to two U.S. aid workers who say they reported looting of the site to U.S. military officials.

The aid workers say they informed Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the highest ranking Army officer in Iraq in October 2003 but were told that the United States did not have enough troops to seal off the facility, which included more than 60 bunkers packed with munitions.


"We were outraged," said Wes Hare, city manager of La Grande {Oregon - sd}, who was working in Iraq as part of a rebuilding program. A colleague who also visited the depot, Jerry Kuhaida, said it appeared that the explosives at the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area had found their way to insurgents targeting U.S. forces.

"There's no question in my mind that the stuff in Ukhaider was used by terrorists," said Kuhaida.

MUCH more: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/front_page/1099052619177610.xml#continue
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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Anybody know were the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area
is in Iraq? Any reporting on that yet?
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. 200 km south of Baghdad
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. kick
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. More on Wes Hare and Jerry Kuhaida:
Making Sense of the War in Iraq
by Wes Hare
August 2004

I arrived in Karbala on September 15, following some brief training at ICMA’s office in Washington, D.C., and a slightly longer session in Raleigh, North Carolina, at the offices of RTI International. During the training, it became apparent that although President Bush had declared the end of the war in May 2003, we would nonetheless be working in a war zone.

http://www2.icma.org/pm/8607/public/Hare.cfm

Democracy by the Dollars
By Pratap Chatterjee, CorpWatch. Posted July 19, 2004.

Three former RTI employees – Jabir Algarawi, an Iraqi-American from Arizona; Jerry Kuhaida, a former Tennessee mayor; and Jim Beaulieu, a former provincial deputy minister from Canada – all went to work with hopes of building democracy in Iraq.
snip----
The paucity of resources for actual community initiatives was confirmed by Jerry Kuhaida, the former mayor of Oak Ridge, Tennessee, who had also resigned from his job in the United States to work for RTI in late 2003. He was assigned to Karbala, a city of 500,000 people about 60 miles south of Baghdad.

Kuhaida also complained that RTI lacked a serious plan for delivering democracy. "We can't even get our own people in the United States to vote, how are we going to do that in Iraq?" he wondered. "We needed to at least do some strategizing and thinking, but I saw no evidence that we were doing that."

"There was no plan at all after the war," he added. "The whole thing was running on a whim, basically. There wasn't even a bad plan out there. I am totally disturbed by my government and the lies that were told to me. I take them personally."

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/19258/
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UL_Approved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. I see forty wagons!
How much explosive ordinance is actually missing now? Is it more than 380 tons? Have we even begun to understand the scope of this scandal? Where are our troops holding the explosives, ammunition, and other supplies at present? Too many questions, too little time.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. These men will simply be "dismissed"
Move on....next story!
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. now they're saying that the troops were too busy, distracted with having
to constantly don anti-chemical/biological gear, and fearing for their safety. didn't the troops discard that gear fairly early in the invasion? i don't believe they rolled into baghdad fearing chemical or biological attack. anyone else recall? thanks.
they're throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this one!
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JamesM Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
19. t's Just the tip of the iceberg.
Al Qaqaa is just the tip of the iceberg. There are hundreds of ammo dumps that the US left un-guarded. It is however a well documented and shining example of the catastrophic systemwide failure to secure weapons depots. There are lots of other reports of people begging the US to guard other sites. In in each case the US military sayed they did not have the manpower, or orders made other things a priority.

Not only the IAEA, but civilians and soldiers on the ground were making urgent requests to the US miliary field commanders. Prompted by the NY times, other people are now writing about their experiences in attempting to warn the commanders on the ground.

At Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area:
As the post points out, The Oregonian news paper said “Two U.S. aid workers, including one from Oregon, said they reported the looting of an Iraqi weapons depot to U.S. military officials in October, 2003, but were told that there were not enough troops to seal off the facility.” An abridged version of this one has been picked up by the AP.

Another one,at Camp Anaconda, From Salon.com QUOTE:

“But Al Qaqaa is not the whole story. The same month it was being looted, I learned of another major weapons and ammunition storage facility, near my battalion's base at Camp Anaconda, that was unguarded and targeted by looters. But despite my repeated warnings -- and those of other U.S. intelligence agents -- nothing was done to secure this facility, as it was systematically stripped of enough weapons and explosives to equip anti-U.S. insurgents with enough roadside improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, for years to come.”

It’s a long but good read on Salon.com by David DeBatto, a former U.S. Army counterintelligence agent who served in Operation Iraqi Freedom. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/29/anaconda/index.html

As the stories come out it looks more and more like a system wide failure. A failure of military priories that is having a catastrophic affect on our ability to wage peace. Talk about failure to join the dots, in this case people were drawing them pictures and they still failed to grasp the need to secure the weapons.

QUOTE: A Pentagon official told The Oregonian Thursday that the United States had been forced to leave many ammunition dumps in Iraq unguarded. The official, who declined to be identified, said the U.S. military had identified about 900 sensitive weapons sites in Iraq but had assigned "a brigade-sized force" to deal with them. A brigade typically has about 3,500 soldiers.

Now its time do some basic math. A brigade contains officers and support personal. So even in a good sized brigade, that only that leaves maybe 3,000 troops that could stand sentry. Given that for each sentry position you need a minium of three men, (8 hours on duty and 16 off when he eats, sleeps and showers) you can staff a little less than 1,000 sentry positions. That’s about one sentry for each of the 900 known weapons depots. BUT ....that’s not how the Army works. The Army does not have a command structure that would allow just three men to hold a base. Not day in day out, 24 hours a day.

If you assume that a platoon, with a lieutenant in command, is the smallest unit you can deploy, you quickly realize that, even with only one platoon at each site, you can only cover 200 of the 900 known sites.

But in reality platoons don’t carry out independent operations for prolonged periods of time. So at most sites you would probably have at least a company, (62 to 190 soldiers), three to five platoons commanded by a captain. If you had a very large brigade, (5,000 men) made entirely of very small company’s (less than 100 men) you still are only talking about guarding 50 sites. 50 out of 900, and that's on a good day.

So if you planed well your brigade would cover the 50 most inportant sights. Maybe, but probalby not because if you deployed like this the men of the brigade would be spread out all over Iraq making effective command near impossible. So even with a brigade you can't cover any where near the number of ammo dump sites that exist.

The importance of protecting the troops is an issue that both the right and the left agree about. It’s one thing that every soldier would agree on. The military calls it ‘FORCE PROTECTION’.

By not securing the weapons depots the Army failed a basic military doctrine:
At all cost and at every opportunity, deny your enemy access to arms that he can use against you.
Just look at the effort used in other wars to cut off enemy supply lines.

Is this the issue where the right wing may be persuaded that the commander in chief’s military policy and priorities were dead wrong? (Pun intended)
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