Family of Six Found Dead in Iraqi Home Hit by U.S.

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041020/wl_nm/iraq_family_dc&cid=574&ncid=1473

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - Rescuers dug the bodies of six members of one family -- a couple and their four children -- out of the rubble of an Iraqi house bombed by U.S. warplanes on Wednesday, witnesses said.


The house was destroyed during air strikes on the insurgent-held town of Falluja, 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad.


A Reuters cameraman filmed the dead bodies being removed from the rubble of the house.


U.S. forces say their strikes are carefully targeted against fighters loyal to Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a self-declared ally of al Qaeda who the U.S. says is hiding in the town.

more...More Bush family values I guess?

[JSJ]

1. oh, those troops of ours are brave and sstalwart men, they are!

[izzie]

2. Gods will?

Funny how people who say they believe in God in this country even think this is OK.

[Benhurst]

4. They have their own twisted version of Christianity in which

The Prince of Peace has become Jesus, God of War.

[leftchick]

3. Good Lord this is the exact opposite of the MSRNC report....

They said local residents said US warplanes hit an "empty house"!!
I HATE our media lying Liars!!! :grr: They are as guilty of WAR CRIMES as the WH!

here is the remains of their home.... :cry:



An Iraqi man sits among the rubble of a destroyed building in which six people died in central Fallujah, west of Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday, Oct 20, 2004, after U.S. forces fired rockets into central Fallujah early Wednesday. The couple and their four children had just returned to their home overnight after having fled the city a week earlier, police and witnesses said. (AP Photo/Mohammed Khodor)

[shraby]

5. WAR CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only one place for war criminals. May Kerry carry them there.

[izzie]

6. What will this do to our men will say a lot.

How can young men see all this and come home and be pleased with their job? I know they are doing as told but??????????

[The_Casual_Observer]

24. The brave aviators go back to home base, high five,

smoke a cigar and talk some shit. These brave men are protecting our freedoms and spreading democracy.

[0007]

7. ....and more junior family values in Gaza imposed by Israel

Where are the peace keepers of the world?

[Comadreja]

32. here's a few of them...

[kayell]

8. Eve of Destruction

Recorded by "Barry McGuire"
Written by "P.F. Sloan"
Album: "Eve of Destruction"

The eastern world it tis explodin',
violence flarin', bullets loadin',
you're old enough to kill but not for votin',
you don't believe in war, what's that gun you're totin',
and even the Jordan river has bodies floatin',
but you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Don't you understand, what I'm trying to say?
Can't you see the fear that I'm feeling today?
If the button is pushed, there's no running away,
There'll be noone to save with the world in a grave,
take a look around you, boy, it's bound to scare you, boy,
but you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Yeah, my blood's so mad, feels like coagulatin',
I'm sittin' here, just contemplatin',
I can't twist the truth, it knows no regulation,
handful of Senators don't pass legislation,
and marches alone can't bring integration,
when human respect is disintegratin',
this whole crazy world is just too frustratin',
and you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China!
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama!
Ah, you may leave here, for four days in space,
but when you return, it's the same old place,
the poundin' of the drums, the pride and disgrace,
you can bury your dead, but don't leave a trace,
hate your next-door-neighbour, but don't forget to say grace,
and you tell me over and over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction
------------------------------------------------------
Change a few words, just as timely today.

[Judi Lynn]

9. Just horrible. More on the attack:

U.S. forces fire rockets in central Fallujah, killing six
By Associated Press, 10/20/2004 05:42

FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) U.S. forces fired rockets in central Fallujah early Wednesday, hitting a teacher's college and leveling a house, killing six people, police and witnesses said.
(snip)

Ten minutes later, a U.S. war plane lobbed a rocket that hit the Female Teachers' Preparation Institute in the Jumhuriya area but it did not detonate, said police officer Mohsen Adnan.
(snip)

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/294/world/U_S_forces_fire_rockets_in_cen:.shtml

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks to Leftchick and 0007 for the photos in this thread. Very helpful.

[Sinnerman]

36. They Bombed Hospitals and KILL Hundreds

Medi awon't Re-Port

[Wind Dancer]

10. We must find a way to stop this.

We need another protest so people in other countries know how angry we are about the slaughter of innocent lives. Every leader in this country needs to know 1/2 the country will not tolerate this anymore, I can't handle this.

If hell exists, there is a special place for these criminals.

NOT IN MY NAME!

Why aren't any of the politicians, including Kerry, talking about the innocent people dying? There are no words for the disgust and sadness I feel right now.



:cry:

[Forkboy]

11. According to what I've learned down in the I/P Forum

this is just collateral damage :shrug:

[The Magistrate]

26. The Fact Is, My Friend

We simply do not have sufficiently good intelligence to carry on in this matter. We have no good agents in among the opposition; we have not been surveilling ourselves nearly long enough to have any coherent view of who the players are and how they act. Much of the information we do get is deliberately distorted, either through being supplied by people who are really working for the insurgency, or who are seeking to gratify some private grudge.

We are, of course, rather famously in disagreement over the matter of Israel v. Palestine, but in most instances where the Israelis say they were aiming at a particular man or group, you would probably agree, they clearly do get him. They may well get a number of other people, but they do get the target they were aiming for. We are blundering amateurs by compare, and really ought not to be trying this sort of thing.

"Kids, don't try this at home."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[leftchick]

12. you have to be a fetus in order to be valued by bushco*....

Our lives and theirs don't mean shit to them... :(




An Iraqi rescuer carries the covered body of a child, dug from the rubble of a house which was bombed by U.S. warplanes during an overnight raid, witnesses said, in the western city of Falluja, October 20, 2004. Six members of one family, a couple and their four children, were killed when U.S. warplanes struck overnight at what the military said were Zarqawi-linked targets in the rebel-held city of Falluja. (Mohanned Faisal/Reuters)

[Aidoneus]

14. it used to annoy me..

but I'm glad the press people are comparing those bits:--"... rescuer carries the covered body of a child ... what the military said were Zarqawi targets ...", etc.

Most of the time the sort is a propaganda front for the murderers, but a caption like this strikes hard at that. But then, which version gets more play?--Yeah yeah, I know..

[leftchick]

16. I wonder if the photographers are the ones captioning?

I find much more credible information daily in the yahoo photo gallery from Iraq than from most of their front page articles. That is why I wonder who exactly writes the captions. Those photographers a doing a huge service getting the real news out.

[leftchick]

28. kick....

RIP dear family... :(

[Comadreja]

33. "Unsanitized" pictures

Note how in most news photos that we are "supposed" to see that not only do we see no blood, or even a glimpse of the corpse itself, but the rescuers usually seem emotionally detached, almost indifferent. The wrecked buildings could be any demolition site. Where is the sense that people were crushed and mangled here?

[leftchick]

13. "Isn't America ashamed of lying?"....

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-10/20/content_2113220.htm


<snip>
In another case, the US army said that it attacked an insurgentmeeting place in Fallujah. But in the end, 11 people were killedand 17 others wounded when they attended a wedding party. The groomwas killed and the bride was hospitalized.

US forces usually publish statements claiming that theyconducted what they call precision strikes against houses orcheckpoints used by Zarqawi's loyalists.

But local residents said that they have never seen Zarqawi'shenchmen holed up in the city, and those killed in US bombings wereoften ordinary civilians, including women and children. Sitting in a shabby village yard outside the rebel heartland,Jwad's family wondered if their house destroyed by US airplanes wasa hideout for Zarqawi's group. "Isn't America ashamed of lying?" Fallujah has been a scene of nearly nightly US air raids sinceUS marines withdrew in April. The interim Iraqi government led byIyad Allawi has warned of another massive offensive unless Fallujahmilitants hand over Zarqawi and his associates.

"I shall warn (George W.) Bush and (Iyad) Allawi: Whoever wantsto restore peace and stability in Iraq should realize that violencewould only bring violence, and that they should prepare for thereckoning day. The people of Fallujah are looking for revenge, aneye for an eye," said Qahtan. Enditem

[mike_c]

15. child terrorists channeling al-Zarqawi....

Where are the apologists for our "brave and noble troops" now? The murderers were "only following orders" at Nuremberg, too. The people of Iraq are being systematically murdered in our names so that W can strut and think of himself as a "war president," but the men and women in Iraq are the sharp end of the killing. Where are their morals? Where is their conscience? Is there anyone they would not kill if ordered to do so? What possible justification can there be for this?

[pop goes the weasel]

17. Give it a rest

I doubt if most of the Iraqis even hold individual troops personally responsible for what is going on. Once a person is in the military, there is a concerted effort to propagandize them and to keep the truth from them for "morale" purposes. Their personalities are systemtically broken down during training so that they will follow orders. You have a bunch of young, ignorant, frightened people being fed lies in a war zone. The wonder is that as many of them resist as do. If you are concerned, you should be talking the troops, trying to break through the barrier of deceit that the government has built around them, and encouraging them to follow their instincts if they have doubts about the morality of an action. You should offer your assistance and support should they be charged with insubordination or failure to follow a lawful order. There are a lot of troops who are already looking for any chance, any possibility of changing things. If you can stop blaming them for the machine they have been caught up in, maybe you can actually be of some assistance.

But if you insist on charging them all with murder, remember to charge yourself, too. Those are our tax dollars at work. The blood is on all of us.

[mike_c]

20. agree 100 percent....

But if you insist on charging them all with murder, remember to charge yourself, too. Those are our tax dollars at work. The blood is on all of us.

These crimes are being committed in our names, and unless we resist, or leave the U.S., we are all complicit. The lesson of Nuremberg included the responsibility of the society that spawned such evil.

Some of Robert Jackson's comments about the Nuremberg procedings are apropo:

"Launching a war of aggression is a crime that no political or economic situation can justify. If certain acts in violation of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or Germany does them... we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us."

"A basic provision of the Charter is that to plan, prepare, initiate or wage a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements, and assurances, or to conspire or participate in a common plan to do so is a crime."

[jayfish]

22. Naaah, They Don't Hold The Troops "Personally Responsible".

They just like to kill them for the fun of it. They hate out troops for their freedoms. Why don't you give it a rest?

Jay

[atreides1]

23. Let the troops off the hook, again!

In order for them to have doubts about the 'morality of an action', they would have to first have morals.

As evidenced by the statement of Army SSG Ivan Frederick, he knew what he was doing was wrong and a form of abuse, but he still did it.

You see true moral conviction gives one the courage to take a stand, I personally don't think that these troops have any true moral convictions. And contrary to what seems to be popular belief, you don't leave your morals at the front gate upon entering basic training. Even during training each soldier still has the basic beliefs that they were taught at home, those don't get erased, and personalities don't go away.

What you're offering is just another way for a soldier or marine to get off the hook, to avoid taking responsibility for an action that they feel is wrong. A way out if you will.

A group of soldiers said no to an order last week, because they felt that they were being sent on a "suicide mission", do you think that their families told them to disobey the order. From what I've read so far they did it on their own, because they felt the order that they had received was wrong.

So the troops that keep dropping artillery rounds or plotting targets in Falluja now have the same opportunity, they can say no, it's not right, and I won't take part in this.

But you would rather give them a free ride, forget it. If they lack the courage to do this based on principles, like the members of the 343rd QM Company, then they have no morals.

[pop goes the weasel]

37. you prove my point

The 343rd was able to defy orders because they had each other to rely on. Look what the military has done in response: break them up and send them off into other units where the brass hopes they will be intimidated more easily.

I stand by what I said. Help these men and women do the right thing by letting them know you support them when they say "no." Calling them all murderers is hardly going to get them to think of you as someone they can turn to for help. You might feel pure about it, but you're not helping the situation any. If you could get past your own hate, maybe you could actually talk to some of the people in uniform before they get sent over. Maybe you could help some of them make the right decision. But if you aren't doing that, then remember that all the blood they shed is on your behalf. Have fun washing your hands.

I speak with a dog in this fight, a nephew about to be sent over. He has told of how many lies they are fed, how difficult it is to remember what the truth is. I will be doing everything I can to remind him. I would like it if you would too.

[mike_c]

38. note too that the 343rd defied orders to avoid suicide...

...not to refuse to kill innocent civilians. An act of self-preservation is moral if the alternative is to throw one's life away for no good reason, but the murder of innocents is immoral under any circumstances. Patriotism is no defense for wanton murder. The pilots, their commanders, mechanics, ATCs, and mission chiefs are all accomplices in murder. The siege of Falluja is an act of brutality that stands out from the greater crime of a war of aggression against the Iraqi people. And yes, if we allow these crimes to be committed in our names then we accept them, even if only tacitly, and we are complicit.

Tell your nephew that if he kills innocents, or abets the killing of innocents, or if he kills people whose only crime was to defend their homes and their country from a foreign invader-- an invader that he represents-- that he kills in OUR name, and in YOUR name, and that we will all have to bear the shame for those deaths. Tell him he carries our honor. Tell him that we hope he returns it untarnished.

[pop goes the weasel]

39. I tell him

and I will keep telling him.

And I need everyone else to do the same. And to remember that there will be times during war when the situation will become unclear.

I have known many veterans who have been in those situations. Good men who never wanted to kill a civilian, but found that they had. They tear themselves up about it. I know this might happen to my nephew, and it worries me. And I know he might not come back at all, or with all his pieces, and that scares me.

Please remember that the troops are not, on the whole, murderers. They are our own flesh and blood who need our support. Real support, like letters, books, and magazines, little things to remind them they are human. If they don't get it from us, they will be left with only the pro-war faction offering its magnetized yellow ribbon support in return for their obedience. The troops are counting on us to keep them the honest men they start off as. We have to do what we can to help. We have to do this both for our troops and for the Iraqis.

[mike_c]

42. best wishes and godspeed....

eom

[JSJ]

44. horseshit; yet, another 'murrican excuses the murder of civilians nt

[NNN0LHI]

35. You my friend are in serious denial. And it is dangerous

If you do not think most of the Iraqis who have had loved ones killed do not hold individual troops personally responsible for what is going on why have they killed over a thousand of them and wounded another 8000? Because they understand maybe?

I have some more bad news for you too. These same Iraqis hold individual civilian Americans like you and me personally responsible for what is going on over there as well. And these are people who have been known to hold blood grudges against those who have crossed them for centuries in the past. Think about it.

Don

[coalition_unwilling]

27. Support our Torturers

[drscm]

18. "They hate us for our freedoms..." B_llsh_t!

[daleo]

19. So much for the Zarqawi related "intelligence" (again)

How many innocent people have been killed for the al-Zarqawi snipe hunt?

[Zorra]

21. I'm sure they were all had something to do with the 9/11 attack on the WTC

Especially the kids.
\sarcasm off.

[coalition_unwilling]

25. Kill another terrorist for Christ

[leftchick]

29. a little more info.... More US denials....

<snip>
A Reuters witness saw a man and a woman and four children, two boys and two girls, being pulled out of the rubble of a razed home in the rebel-held city of Falluja, about 50 km (30 miles) west of Baghdad.


The U.S. military denied a family of six was killed, saying it launched four strikes against safehouses used by Zarqawi's fighters.


"Intelligence sources indicate a known Zarqawi propagandist is passing false reports to the media," it said in a statement.


Reuters television footage showed men chanting "There is no God but Allah!" as they carried the body of the father of the family of six.


"Is this the gift that (interim Iraqi Prime Minister) Iyad Allawi is giving to the people of Falluja?" asked one man, pointing to the small bodies of two of the children lying in the trunk of a car. "Every day they strike Falluja."

[Cocoa]

30. six terrorists in one family?

what are the chances?

[leftchick]

31. another body....

A man carries the body of a child dug out from under the rubble following a US raid on the restive city of Fallujah, 50 kms west of Baghdad.(AFP/Fares Dlimi)

[Catherine Vincent]

34. I received an email today from someone that has a few pics

of the soldiers in Iraq. The subject says pics that the media won't show and they are pics of happy times in Iraq. We need to start a spamming campaign that says the media won't show the horrors of Bush's war (your pics).

[Tight_rope]

40. Oh my hearts acks for the Iraqis!....We have a stupid fool in power!

[Tight_rope]

41. I guess the 4 children were terrorist too! May Bush* rot in HELL!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

43. There is no such thing as a surgical strike

[Supersedeas]

45. in the name of God and Country....your vote could be an endorsement