Surprise CO2 rise may speed up global warming

[Karmadillo]

Looks like it's time for another tax cut.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=570734

The rate at which global warming gases are accumulating in the atmosphere has taken a sharp leap upwards, leading to fears that the devastating effects of climate change may hit the world even sooner than has been predicted.

Atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide (CO2 ), the principal greenhouse gas, have made a sudden jump that cannot be explained by any corresponding jump in terrestrial emissions of CO2 from power stations and motor vehicles - because there has been none.

Some scientists think instead that the abrupt speed-up may be evidence of the long-feared climate change "feedback" mechanism, by which global warming causes alterations to the earth's natural systems and then, in turn, causes the warming to increase even more rapidly than before.

Such a development would mean the worldwide droughts, agricultural failure, sea-level rise, increased weather turbulence and flooding all predicted as consequences of climate change would arrive on much shorter time-scales than present scenarios suggest, and the world would have much less time to co-ordinate its response.

Only last month, Tony Blair expressed anxiety that global warming's dire effects would arrive not just in his children's lifetime, but in his own, and would "radically alter human existence".

more...

[Gregorian]

1. Possibly due to deforestation???

Here's my pathetic two cents worth. The abrupt change may be due to the combination of combustion AND deforestation. That last one may be something that scientists have neglected. It's easy to forget that trees convert co2 to oxygen. And extensive logging has removed only the largest trees. It's just a common sense guess. Nothing scientific.

[jdj]

3. need some wood?

sorry, couldn't resist.

[Gregorian]

5. Argh! Hahaha.

Just where IS my sense of humor. Why I outta...woob, woob, woob.
Yep, there's only so much time. We might as well laugh.

[barb162]

13. I agree, look at those Haiti floods, about 95% deforested there

The other thing though is overpopulation and greed. This astoudingingly stupid breeding, whether you can feed another mouth or not. Go cut some more forests down and don't replant, blah, blah, blah. Drives me nuts.

I planted six trees on my property, always looking for another spot where I can put in another tree because I am very conscious of this deforesting over the world. And when the Brazilian rain forest goes, I will really get scared. And that is getting cut down very fast.

So my take on this is the human race should just keep up breeding like crazy, Americans should keep driving gas guzzlers of all types, keep cutting the forests and then when it all collapses, we all stand around, every dumb human fucking over this planet, and say, gee what the hell is happening?

I feel sorry for the innocent animals who will die along us.

PS Just read a story in today's paper about a woman taking care of 23 children, 10 of her own and 13 from her sister v who died. The story was written like what a wonderful woman and this church is trying to build a 10 bedroom house for her. I kept looking at this like, why would anyone have this many children. It is selfish beyond belief. WHY WOULD ANYONE THINK THEIR DAMN GENES ARE SO TERRIFC THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE THAT MANY REPLICAS OF THEMSELVES.PRIMAL SCREAM.

[Gregorian]

25. Here's another possible problem. (And Barb, you're cool!)

I have just spent the last thirty years alone and depressed. Sure, I worked. Sure I went to college. Sure I played in bands. Sure I had a few girlfriends. But I was alone. Everyone was geared to breed and drive and not think about what the results would be. The mindset is just about as large as the fence around their houses. I'm not perfect, but I see the world as a big globe. Not my family in it's house. Actually, I don't have kids, and never will. One billion was enough. Too many, in fact. Even one billion was destroying the planet. The reason we looked for petroleum was that we had used up the whale oil!
Wow, it's nice to know there are some people like you out there

Now I spent the last five years in the forests of Mendocino and Humboldt county. I've ridden my bicycle extensively through these hills. And the moment this chimpanzee took office, the trees suddenly became horizontal, and hit the highway. I am appauled. But it's not Bush, it's not the loggers, although they certainly are a bunch of assholes for doing what they're doing. It's the breeders. And this is my big problem with DU. Well not really DU. DU is a political forum. But here we are yapping about Bush, when the real problem has gone nearly unaddressed. I even see that Edwards has four kids- he doesn't get it. But I have digressed from whatever pathetic idea I had. As I have watched the incredible and magical forests of Humboldt turn to literally patches of bare earth, (and I am a mechanic, so using the word "magical" is not one of my standard terms. I had to experience it.) I have come to realize what I believe is another factor in global warming. I suppose I'm wasting my time here. But when we cut trees, the sun hits the earth directly. You would never notice it, unless you were going about rapidly through the forest, like I do. It's COLD in a forest, even in the summer. But the moment you get into the cut up area, it's 90 degrees. Well, you get the idea. Even if it's not scientifically accurate, the idea is that where the earth was cool, it is now hot.
So we have the candle burning at both ends. And more people arriving.

I spent the last many years in a state far more serious than just watching George Bush mispronounce nukular. I now have the ability to buy a little bit of paradise, until that too is ruined. So I may find a modicum of happiness in the interim. But watching this total stupidity and inconsideration, and lack of leadership that listens to scientific reason, let alone condemning birth control, has been literally maddening and sickening. I now live in a nieghborhood that is totally out of control. People don't work, and they drive their Humvee's and monster four by fours all day. All DAY! They never stop. Sometimes the husband passes the wife on the road going the other way. They have weekly garbage pickup, while I bring my two cans down to the dump once every four or five MONTHS.

Whatever. My brain hurts. Stupid humans. And I agree that it's too late. The planet will survive, but it's the quality of our lives that suffered. It killed me. And I count. In fact I think I count double, since I care.

Sorry. This is what gets typed out when I haven't had my coffee. :)

[Lorien]

27. I know exactly how you feel

Like Barb, I've planted as many trees on my property as it can handle (sadly, the three hurricanes that hit my area in the past two months hugely deforested it (it's heartbreaking) but I blame those on global warming as well). I live alone in a small house. I'd love to have a child, but simply won't; six billion is more than enough. I'm baffled when people tell me I'm "selfish" for not having kids; I feel the opposite is true! I have a few friends who feel as I do; one couple, in fact, is highly successful (probably millionaires, but I don't ask), and they live in a tiny home with very few possessions. The wife was born in India,and has gone back to visit her relatives in their swiftly shrinking jungle many times. The consequences of overpopulation are horrifying to her, so she won't have kids. She also believes as I do-that humanity is too short sighted and greedy to survive more than another generation. Why bring a child into such a world? Our genes aren't that special, and there are millions of orphans throughout the planet already that need families. It just doesn't make sense.

[Tyler Durden]

28. TESTIFY, Brother.

The wife and I are taking the road North and East (Canada) likely in Spring. We figure the kids we have deserve a better shot (and we do too).

We also figure that the Rats might do a better job after the climate or that big mucking rock from space reduces humanity to a sniveling few, and they get their chance to head toward the top of the food chain.

[barb162]

30. Thank you, I am so glad someone shares this view.

Although it may seem at first glance you or I are all over the place on this, the fact is that is not the case. It is all connected: too many people, overpopulation, living on land that cannot support the numbers. You look at the number of people in Florida living on these SANDBARS, also known as barrier islands (oops, here comes a hurricane, where'd my house go) , look at the devastation in Haiti, in our USA national forests, etc., and it is so sad, so destructive. I wonder what will happen when Lake Powell and Lake Mead totally dry up with all these people constantly moving to Vegas, AZ, etc. That desert land wasn't meant to harbor millions of people as there simnply aren't enough water resources. Yet the people continue to move there.

I am planning to get my property certified as a backyard wildlife habitat by the National Wildlife Federation. My neighbors don't want raccoons, squirrels, etc, around here though. They want their clipped lawns and don't want native plants, bushes with berries, etc. I am planting this stuff anyway to attract birds, butterflies,rabbits and whatever other animals want to be on my lot. etc. The neighbors want EVERYTHING SANITIZED from any wildlife. Makes me wonder why they are in the suburbs versus a highrise somewhere. My one neighbor has 2 dirt bikes (motorcycles) and every weekend he goes out with the kids probably to some park or forest and scares the hell out of the wildlife. That's his version of getting out communing with "nature."

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I have been accused on DU of being racist at times when I talk about overpopulation. I will mention Bangladesh (then I am anti-Asian, or Mexico (then I am anti-Hispanic) and if I mention Africa and the grinding poverty, starvation etc., then I am anti-black. Yeah, well I am anti-everything then. What I am really am is "PRO-keeping-it-in-your-pants" if the land cannot sustain the growth. When I look at the seemingly constant scenes of African misery and these dying babies with flies on their faces in some desert refugee camp, I say to myself, why are the people pounding these babies out when they live on the edges of deserts? Or in deserts? Why are so many people living in Bangladesh at sea level and then thousands are wiped out when a typhoon comes by. ANd the SW USA, boy, if the predictions come true that the West is possibly headed for a major long term drought, I know I for one would be afraid to move there. But people come streaming in there day after day. Explosive population growth is going on in an area that needs constant air-conditioning, when the electricity produced from the dams will be less and less as the water level drops in the reservoirs.

Why are forests constantly being razed all over this planet. Yes it certainly is always cooler under a tree, even one tree. One tree helps so much. The soil being baked that used to have a tree on it is interacting with greater heating of the air. And that is seen all the time with city temps being higher than the temps in a nearby suburb

Anyone who reads this, call me anti- whatever ethnic group you want, but what I really am is a zero population growth supporter. And sometimes a negative growth supporter as the case may be. The human race is destroying this planet through pollution, global warming, overpopulation, etc. We need to get this damned selfish, short-sighted overbreeding under control, both in the US and elsewhere on this planet or we will destroy it.

People of Haiti, keep pounding out the kids until the next hurricane comes through but don't plant any trees to stop devastating flooding like your neighbor the Dominican Republic. People of Las Vegas, keep breeding, keep planting grass on your lawns and watering it in 120 degree temps even though you should only have desert plants there as your city suggests. People on barrier islands or near beaches in the SE US, please rebuild your houses until the next hurricane comes through. We sure wouldn't want any zoning to let the sand bars or beaches do their natural function. People who love beautiful weedless lawns, let's keep putting the weedkillers down so that the groundwater and rivers and streams are polluted. SUV lovers, I hope you will enjoy paying for gas when it is 3 bucks plus and still rising. ETC!

AND YOU ARE TOTALLY COOL GREGORIAN!
.

[htuttle]

23. I think it's also due to 'rot'

Consider how much land that used to be frozen for thousands of years has now thawed. All of it, even apparently 'bare' thawed out (and soggy) soil, contains a lot of organic matter that can now proceed with the decomposition cycle that had been frozen for so long.

I've heard that a lot of the tundra in the northern part of North America is now melting, thereby giving off a lot of additional greenhouse gases. Stinks real bad too.

[reprobate]

31. There is another problem which is worse, I think.

More than half of the oxygen on earth is generated by the phytoplancton in the oceans. The phytoplancton is being killed offby the absorbsion of CO2 turning the water acid. There are already areas of the ocean that are oxygen depleted. At some poin, if this continues, there won't be enough oxygen generated to keep us upright mammals alive.

Of course, if you look at it from the earths standpoint, that might not be such a bad idea.

[Lorien]

37. The ocean's "dead zones"

they are growing rapidly. There was even a recent article that stated that NO seabirds had reproduced this year in Eastern Scotland and North England. No food, no chicks. Terns are more intelligent than humans, it seems.

Scary stuff.

[nofurylike]

2. yeah right, surprise. grrrrrrRRR.......!! thanks the info, Karmadillo n/t

[Lorien]

4. Do human beings have the political will to deal with this?

I fear not. I'm glad I'm not any younger, and that I never had children, but I feel sick for all none the less. :-(

Climate change is ten thousand times more of a threat to humanity than terrorism, yet it gets almost no press here in America. Even Kerry barely touches on the environment. It's disgusting.

[Gregorian]

6. Have a hug.

Wow. Your post is like a mirror. I am just the same way. Exactly. I guess I want to say that you aren't alone. Thank you.

And no, we don't have the politics. That would take a leader. I find it strange that those who don't know, or don't care, are dragging the rest of us down the drain.

[Fovea]

14. That leader would have been

Al Gore, who should be next Sec of Interior.

[Lorien]

15. Amen

what a fucking tragedy for all life on earth.

No more reefs

No more crickets and coyotes in the deserts

No more tigers, elephants, whales

No more salmon migrations

No more songbirds

No more trees in autumn

No more children


What a truly amazing waste.

[barb162]

11. I am like you, no kids, etc. I feel sorry for the animals, not the

humans causing this.

[Terran]

20. Bingo (unfortunately)

Jen6, I agree completely. In the US, anyway, I fear nothing significant will be done to cope with this disaster by anyone in power until it's too late. San Francisco and New York will be underwater and then maybe they'll start to think about it.

[Gothic Sponge]

7. Hey! Who cares about the Earth? It's not like we need it to live!

Let's just keep giving those Hummer drivers their tax cuts, because we live is Bush world, and greed should be rewarded.

[Lorien]

8. By the time the majority DO grow up and care

it will be long past too late. We may have already missed our only chance to save life on earth.

[ejcastellanos]

21. Not the end of life

Just the end of life as we know it. I have faith that the earth will continue on very well without us.

All hail the ant.

[hatrack]

22. Yes, and dragonflies have been here since the Carboniferous

They'll probably make it too.

[are_we_united_yet]

10. Exactly!

warning major and sometimes rambling rant ahead:

/rant on

Like why the fuck (I only use the word when I'm really upset) should we care about trashin' Mother Earth? Hell when we're done we can just jump in one of those new fangled spaceships and leave the earth like a empty Burger King food tray.

Economy is great, 5.x% unemployment, outsourcing is good for the economy and don't forget buy a fucking hummer says the GOP.

Support our President, fuck everything else.

I sure wouldn't want the brilliant market driven, GOP dickheads to call me a "tree huggin dirt worshipper" or anything like that.

/rant off

pant-pant-pant.

:mad:

In short (it should be obvious), I absolutely agree with you. These assholes just don't get it: You cannot endlessly fuck over the earth for your stupid Corporate profits. Someone is going to pay the price big time!

[BillZBubb]

9. I saw info on a research project.

The preliminary data showed as the atmosphere warmed, CO2 began outgassing from topsoil at an exponential rate. So, if confirmed, that would mean there is a huge feedback problem. It would explain the sudden jump in atmospheric CO2.

But, we all know global warming is just junk science fiction, right? The Repugs told us so.

[Dudley_DUright]

39. Yes, there are all sorts of possible

positive feedback loops that have been identified, including one involving the oceans. We could be seeing the start of one kicking in.

[PartyPooper]

12. We're all doomed. Nobody gives a rat's ass about the environment.

Well, very few folks do, anyway.

The future?

As Junior says, "I don't know about that...we'll all be gone by then."

[The Zanti Regent]

16. My family says "So What? Jesus is coming next week to rapture us"

These idiots do not care one bit. They are totally lost to Jesus TV

[Karmadillo]

17. Kick to depress the morning crowd

n/t

[demokatgurrl]

18. No kidding???

Do you think the naysayers believe it yet????

[highplainsdem]

19. Here's a link to another story about this

from a different British paper:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1324276,00.html

Notice that it's a US scientist, Bush-administration employed, who's quoted at the end of the article as saying that he doesn't think this increase is "highly significant," and it's "too soon to say that a new trend has been established." *sigh*

By the way, I found both these links on Drudge's website last night. For years now I've been checking both Buzzflash and the Drudge Report daily, Drudge mostly to keep track of what silly gossip the wingnuts are trying to get into the mainstream media (it has to be bothering him that CNN et al. aren't making a big deal of the ABC memo Drudge says "sparks controversy" -- usually he can get some more respectable website to post a story about these GOP-manufactured "controversies" that he can then link to).

I noticed years ago that Drudge regularly posts links to stories about global warming, almost always from British sources. Never could understand how he could apparently be very concerned about the environment, yet doing such slimy work for the GOP. But he does link to stories about this a lot, including linking to a story about Tony Blair's warning about climate change, which got scant coverage here in the US.

[barb162]

33. The only reason I can figure Drudge shows these articles is

that he believes the stories and he's going to be severely affected by it. Not that he cares about others, just how it will affect him. Yes I watch the Drudge site too and it is severely skewed toward articles favorable to the repukes.

[Viking12]

40. To accuse the hard working scientists at NOAA

of doing Bush's dirt work is not fair. Two years isn't significant, scientifically speaking. The increase certainly gets your attention and if it continues at this rate is bad news, but two years does not a trend make. The scientist you refer to was speaking like a scientist -- cautiously, with appropriate caveats and qualifications.

[snooper2]

24. Stupid bad English ...

speed up..

it's just "speed Global warming"

not "speed up"

dumbasses

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. 'Speed up' is standard British usage (n/t)

[barb162]

36. Using "speed up" is neither stupid nor bad English

You dumbass

[Junkdrawer]

26. Seems to be a British-Only story...

If we ignore it, maybe it'll go away. :silly:

[Junkdrawer]

32. Kick

:kick:

[VegasWolf]

34. What about the sheer amount of BS emanating from *'s mouth??

[barb162]

35. yeah, that's a lot of pollution coming from that

[opihimoimoi]

38. Bush treats Earth like its DISPOSABLE, all we gatta do is move..maybe Mars

The real enemy is IGNORANCE

[Arioch]

41. It's the permafrost...

When the Earth warms the permafrost in the caps begins to melt.
This permafrost contains billions of tons of organic matter.
When it is defrosted it will finally begin to decompose, releasing its carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

Our intervention has started a chain reaction which I fear cannot be reversed.

I may be a fatalist, but I believe we are fscked beyond all hope...

[opihimoimoi]

42. Thanks.... I have to suspect what you explain is true..sounds plausible

[RainDog]

49. that was my first thought, too

I'm not a scientist, but I try to read at least some of the information on this issue.

Even I know about the problem with the melting of the glaciers and the release of trapped co2 --combined with the huge amount of melting that has been recorded and shown recently.

So why is it such a mystery when scientists have already noted that this is the likely scenario from all the recent melting at the poles?

why can't reporters state the obvious?

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. While it's a possible mechanism, it's not the only one

for instance, some scientists think the ability of rainforests to be a carbon sink is slowing:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3499500.stm

[MsMagnificent]

43. *Clean Air Propaganda*

Hey, we should ease all the regulations on pollution!

*Brilliant!*

And we could get tons of money from all the energy companies!

*Brilliant!*

We should let major US energy providers get away with dumping tons more pollutants from burning fossil fuels into the air!

*Brilliant!*

Hey lets run tests over Iraq AND the US Heartland and distribute certain agents and see how they disperse! We've done it before, right in America!

*Brilliant!*

CO2 will suffocate us, but the richest of us are going into space anyhow, as the PNAC see's us "Controlling space"! So that's all WE need!
Don't sign any environmental accords!
Let the peon's die!
We've exploited & wasted them AND Earth, and they're no use to us at all anymore!

*Brilliant!*

Let's go exploit Mars!!!

*Brilliant!*

[Robert Oak]

44. CO2 Feedback sources

forest fires, but overall temperature warning increases release
of CO2.
<snip>
Previous studies have suggested that global warming increases the microbial activity that decomposes plants, releasing more carbon dioxide from soils.
</snip>
http://eces.org/articles/000721.php

[bobbyboucher]

47. Hasn't the permafrost begun to decay, and therefore

dump huge amounts of CO2 into the air?

FYI, it's decaying because it is not permafrost any more. It's sometimesfrost.

[blindpig]

45. so, what exactly is being done?

virtually nothing. All of the good works of all of the environmental orgs and NGO's hardly make a dent. The pleas of significant numbers of the world's finest minds fall on deaf ears or are paid lip service at best. Why is it business as usual for the elites? Are they so damned smart that we peons should suck it in and trust them? I've seen the debates so I'll rule that out. That leaves either that they are clueless bozos or up to some malignant shit. In either case one must conclude that they have failed in their purported function of leadership of our society and it's time for them to go, since there's no place for us to flee them as the Mayan masses abandoned their cities. Maybe it's time to dump hierarchal organization altogether.

[hatrack]

46. It's simple - we are on our own

No one at the core of power is going to do anything more than pay lip service. Some "leaders" may pay more eloquent lip service than others, but it's nothing more than that. Confronted with a spurting artery or compound fracture, they'll offer a kleenex resembling a carbon trading market (scheduled to open, oh, sometime in the near future) and an asprin shaped like a hydrogen-powered SUV.

David Brower said it very well a few years before his death. He was addressing a group of corporate CEOs and senior company officers.

At one point he asked them, in effect, "So, how about it? Are you prepared to spend your companies' funds to deal with climate disruption?" The universal reaction was "No, no way. As CEOs we face a responsibility to the shareholders and what you're talking about is simply impossible."

At that point Brower asked for a show of hands - "How many of the people in this room are grandparents?" Lots of hands went up. He then asked simply "When do you stop acting as a corporate officer and start acting as a grandparent?" The silence, he said, was deafening.

We are on our own.

[natrat]

48. yea folks I'm no

scientist but any monkey knows we are well on our way to one of the biggest mass extinctions in the earth's history. Fucking polar bears all thin because they cant find seals because the seals cant find....That meteorite extinction event may have been kinder as it was quicker and maybe not so many creatures suffered.

[phantom power]

51. I wish I didn't agree

But I do. Nobody is going to take this seriously until the industrial nations start having real trouble putting food on people's plates. We'll spend the next hundred years fighting tooth and nail to save civilization.