Nobel peace laureate claims HIV deliberately created

[rooboy]

Kenyan ecologist Wangari Maathai, the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize, today reiterated her claim that the AIDS virus was a deliberately created biological agent.

"Some say that AIDS came from the monkeys, and I doubt that because we have been living with monkeys (since) time immemorial, others say it was a curse from God, but I say it cannot be that.

"Us black people are dying more than any other people in this planet," Ms Maathai told a press conference in Nairobi a day after winning the prize for her work in human rights and reversing deforestation across Africa.

"It's true that there are some people who create agents to wipe out other people. If there were no such people, we could have not have invaded Iraq," she said.

"We invaded Iraq because we believed that Saddam Hussein had made, or was in the process of creating agents of biological warfare," said Ms Maathai.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1216687.htm

[Media_Lies_Daily]

1. A book on that subject is entitled...

..."Mary, Ferrie, and the Monkey Virus" by Ed Haslam. A very interesting book with crossover into the JFK assassination.

Here's a bio on Dr. Mary Sherman:

<http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKshermanM.htm>

[Arancaytar]

2. Nothing like a good conspiracy theory for breakfast.

n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. Nothing like keeping one's head buried in the sand and ignoring certain...

...stories because the U. S. government tells you that conspiracies don't exist.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AMD_CPU]

94. Uh huh....

yup, there are tons of people out there, terrified for the lives of their families if they talk about it, and they all found YOU to tell you about it.

/hands out rolls of heavy-duty Reynolds-wrap

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AMD_CPU]

103. So now you just know one person instead of a whole bunch?

your story keeps changing.

You have NO "direct personal experience", what you have is called "hearsay". It's inadmissable in court for a reason, you know....because it's simply not credible.

[SemperEadem]

112. non sequitur-- we're not in court

you have nothing to offer on the subject of any weight or consequence, either but a funky attitude.

[Minstrel Boy]

7. Read the book just last week

Posted some thoughts here on my blog

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/10/mary-ferrie-and-gerald-posner.html

I don't know if it was the birthplace of HIV, but no good thing could come of anti-communists messin' around with monkey viruses in CIA-sponsored underground labs in New Orleans in the early 1960s.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. I at first dismissed the book as just a collection of information...

...cleverly put together by the author. But, as the years have gone by, I've been unable to find any alternative facts to undercut the story, nor has it ever been refuted by anyone that was alive during that time.

On a related topic, do you remember Ruby claiming that someone visiting the Dallas jail was injecting him with something that would cause cancer?

As to the anti-communists, we certainly had a mix of folks falling into that category after the end of WWII. Revenge seemed to be the driving factor among all of these groups. The Germans wanted revenge on the Soviets, as did the White Russians, and the anti-Castro Cubans wanted revenge on Castro.

I always thought it was very interesting that 95% of our "on-the-ground" intelligence on the Soviet Union was brought to us by the Gehlen Org. That was an organization working for the CIA that consisted of about 10,000 agents that had once worked for German military intelligence under Major General Gehlen on the East Front during WWII. They certainly had a major influence on our Cold War foreign policy.

Another batch of rabid anti-communists could be found in and around the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. Those were the so-called White Russians who had been driven out of the Soviet Union by the communist forces (Reds). George DeMohrenschildt was one such refugee.

And then you had the exiled anti-Castro Cubans based primarily in Miami. A few of those folks can be traced from the early days of anti-Castro activities, to the Bay of Pigs, to Watergate, to the Iran-Contra scandal, and within the present day NeoCon organization.

[Minstrel Boy]

11. I had a similar thought

when I began the book. The first 30 or so pages are unpromising, and Haslam could have used a good editor. But by the end I had to concede he'd done a good job of establishing, at least, the value of his question: "Why was a prominent cancer researcher involved in an underground medical laboratory with a violent political extremist?"

The link he establishes between the even more prominent Dr Alton Ochsner - Sherman's executor! - and Guy Bannister makes it all the more suspect.

[cosmicaug]

55. Too late.

Minstrel Boy:

Posted some thoughts here on my log

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/10/mary-ferrie-and-gerald-posner.html

I don't know if it was the birthplace of HIV, but no good thing could come of anti-communists messing' around with monkey viruses in CIA-sponsored underground labs in New Orleans in the early 1960s.

Not that it could change your mind (nothing can probably ever do that --if it points away from a grand conspiracy theory it only proves that much more strongly that a grand conspiracy theory exists, right?), but AIDS started earlier than that (we don't know exactly when but we know it's not too long ago and earlier than the 60's)

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9802/03/earliest.aids/
Quoting the article referenced in the above URL:

CHICAGO (CNN) -- HIV probably originated in the late 1940s or early 1950s, and showed up in people 10 to 20 years earlier than has previously been estimated, researchers said Tuesday.

Dr. David Ho and colleagues from the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center in New York told a conference they traced the very first case of HIV infection to a man living in what was then the Belgian Congo in 1959.

[Jose Diablo]

67. Actually, there is evidence that an epidemic of HIV

swept through Scandinavia around 10,000 years ago.

The evidence is based on a small percentage of Scandinavians (about 1 1/2 per 100) that have a natural immunity to the HIV because they lack, what I remember, a CD4 protein in their cells membranes.

As I remember it, the HIV requires 2 proteins be present in the cell membrane before the virus can enter a cell. without the CD4 marker, no entry.

Theory has it that the HIV epidemic swept through Scandinavia wiping out all except those that did not have the CD4 marker. Thats the theory anyway.

[cosmicaug]

86. Or something else.

JellyBean1 wrote:

Actually, there is evidence that an epidemic of HIV" swept through Scandinavia around 10,000 years ago.

The evidence is based on a small percentage of Scandinavians (about 1 1/2 per 100) that have a natural immunity to the HIV because they lack, what I remember, a CD4 protein in their cells membranes.

As I remember it, the HIV requires 2 proteins be present in the cell membrane before the virus can enter a cell. without the CD4 marker, no entry.

Theory has it that the HIV epidemic swept through Scandinavia wiping out all except those that did not have the CD4 marker. Thats the theory anyway.

Who's to say it was A.I.D.S.? Just because H.I.V. uses whatever receptor you're talking about doesn't mean another agent might not be similarly disposed to use it.

Secrets of the Dead did a show on this with regards to another marker on CD4 T cells involving a mutated form of the gene CCR5, called "delta 32". In this case, the selection for this trait was the bubonic plague as it seems that this mutation confers protection against that bacterium.

I'd say that if unusual prevalence of that mutation is all they've got, it's a pretty weak case for A.I.D.S. in the distant past (though it might be a good case fo something unknown having happened).

[Jose Diablo]

89. Yes, thats true too

"(though it might be a good case for something unknown having happened)."

Who is to say what caused the amplification of the lack of markers.

I should have said there is some indications of something having happened long ago that resembled what an HIV epidemic would have done.

[glitch]

116. Smallpox - here's a link I posted below that you might be interested in

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/medizin_gesundheit/bericht-23515.html

"The smallpox virus also has more biological similarities to HIV-1 than does bubonic plague, the authors point out. Plague is a bacterial disease, and there is no evidence that the bacterium, Yersinia pestis, uses the CCR5 receptor in infection. The bacteria actually reproduce outside immune cells.

Smallpox, on the other hand, is a virus based on RNA, just like HIV, she said. And there is some evidence that smallpox, Variola major, uses chemokine receptors like CCR5 to enter cells."

[Warpy]

14. Check out the CDC and Snopes

This conspiracy BS has been thoroughly debunked.

It's killing black folks in Africa because that's where it orignated. Changes in the social structure there gave it the opportunity to spread. It was no conspriacy, although stupidity has played a big part in it.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. Well, if the CDC and Snopes say so,

then I guess questions and suspicions are downright crazy, if not unpatriotic.

[HarveyBriggs]

34. CDC may have created it...

A racist cell inside the CDC in Atlanta is suspected of attempting to discover or create a viral pathogen that would exploit a blood abnormality found in individuals of African descent. The abnormailty is related to sickle-cell anemia structure that gives Africans some immunity against Tsetse fly (Glossina sp.) parasite infections.

The experiments with a disease that would eliminate the world's black population -- particularly in the black population in the United States -- had been going unnoticed for decades, or dismissed as misguided experiments (see the Tuskeegee Study http://www.gpc.edu/~shale/humanities/composition/assignments/experiment/tuskegee.html). For over a century in the south it was relatively easy to pick a black man off the street, use him for laboratory purposes and dispose of him as a "lynching victim." As the Tuskegee experiment points out, it was also relatively easy to use prisoners for these purposes.

As social tides turned, these experiments went underground to a degree, and finding subjects upon whom these racists could experiment became more difficult. A series of murders in the late 70s and early 80s near the CDC, in Atlanta, may be tied to such experiments (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/williams/begin_2.html), yet this has been covered up when a black man, Wayne Bertram Williams, was framed for the crimes.

As for studies "disproving" such conspiracy theories, it is well known in scientific research communities that certain avenues of research are considered a "third rail" and scientists pursuing such research will be blocked from receiving grants for any research for the rest of their careers. Dioxin teratagen and mutagen study (dioxin being the critical chemical found in "Agent Orange") is one such avenue of research that can kill a career. Studying the "manufactured" origins of HIV is another.

Funding for the "anti-black germ" had been funneled into the CDC by segregationist politicians in both political parties. Religious fundamentalist groups, now closely tied to southern Republican organizations have actively been involved in obscuring the origins of the HIV virus through their preaching that it was a "punishment from God."

And you folks thought "The Boys from Brazil" was bizarre fiction.

Harvey Briggs

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Gosh...your well-thought-out response sure convinced me.

[aquart]

50. Have you considered the innate racism of your theory?

Basically, things only go wrong when white people MAKE it go wrong?

[barb162]

107. it is NOT racist what that poster wrote. Bird flu seems to have

originated in Asia. Does writing that sentence mean I am anti-Asian?

[Sterling]

77. Snopes is a joke.

Citing snopes hurts anyones arguement.

[crossroads]

71. Truth is coming to the masses, eh?

Sadly it has taken quite a while...
:kick:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. From p. 60 of the PNAC document, "Rebuilding America's Defenses"....

"And advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."

<http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf>

To find the above passage, use search using the following word: "biological". You'll find the correct passage on page 60.

IMHO, I'm fairly certain that we've ALREADY developed weapons as described above. One of those weapons may very well have been HIV/AIDS.

[rooboy]

5. I thought of that PNAC passage immediately when I read the news story...

and it amazes me that there isn't more horror at the real contents of that document. These people are ghouls.

[Judi Lynn]

17. One can feel only absolute horror at the very thought

they would EVER consider it, much less write it into their program.

You can't unring a bell, and it's impossible to forget they actually think this way. This is unforgiveable, forever. No possible justification.

[abelenkpe]

43. more media coverage

discussing the contents of those PNAC documents would certainly wake a few more people up to the evil nature of some of the people in the bush administration. But who reads? A woman at work proudly told me the other day that she never reads. Unbelievable, huh?

[Liberal Veteran]

24. Correlation does not imply causation.

New diseases and variations of diseases have occurred throughout history.

The fact that someone thought targetting a specific sector of the populace with a biological agent does not constitute evidence.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. Did I say it was evidence? No, I did not. I offered it as something...

...else to consider in regards to the folks that took over the country during the Coup of December 2000.

[Liberal Veteran]

31. No, what you did you was add correllation to establish a motive.

To reinforce the theory in people's heads.

As someone who actually has HIV, I have a vested interest in the subject and while I cannot possibly PROVE a negative, I don't think a preponderance of evidence exists to support this theory.

Same holds true with the HIV-denialists who suggest that HIV is a harmless virus based on bad science and loose associations and leaps of logic to support their theories. Indeed, they have a couple of Nobel Prize winners who have statements on record to support their claim, most specifically from the creator of the PCR viral load assay who disagress with how his discovery has been adapted to the field of medicine. Yet despite Kerry Mullis' objections, the PCR viral load test has proven an invaluable in the staging of HIV and prediction of therapy failure in order to successfully switch someone to a combination that the virus has not adapted too.

Mother Nature perfected the laboratory of genetic diversity a long long time ago and the fact is the laboratory is still open. Unless someone comes up with some hard evidence to make the case, it lies in the realm of conspiracy theories for me.

[aquart]

51. AIDS does not target specific genotypes.

It's running rampant thru white people in Russia.

It got a foothold in China when they got stupid with blood.

It's a plague in Africa because a) they refused to believe it was happening; b) they refused to take the simplest steps to prevent its spread; c) they don't have the wealth or medical infrastructure to do a damn thing about it now. Oh, and d) they have flat out ignored our experience with it.

[gmoney]

61. I've heard that with some in Africa, it's even a macho thing...

...something along the lines of "HIV can't stop me from bein' a sex machine" and "I've infected half the women in this village."

While I can't back it up, I'm sure it would be easy to find idiots who think that way ANYWHERE in the world.

Sort of like the old T-shirt: "Any wimp can quit smoking, but it takes a MAN to face cancer"

[jmowreader]

106. They also have piss-poor sanitation in Africa

Shitting and drinking from the same body of water would tend to cause some serious diseases.

[barb162]

108. and they rape baby girls too, yeah, very macho

[Cocoa]

59. that was my first thought

Of course it's unimaginable that people would engage in this kind of work, but at the same time we know for certain that people are capable of it.

A lot of people don't know that the basis for the Nazi eugenics program had roots in the U.S., and especially at Yale University.

[Raster]

87. OMFG!!!

"...biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."

How fucking twisted do you to be to come up with this shit?

Even more amazing is that their manifesto was published on the web for all to see. They don't hide it.

[DulceDecorum]

104. This info has been google-bombed.

If you try to call this stuff up,
you now get some tripe about North Korea trying to design something to take out Caucasians.

But Projest Coast is still untouched.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/south_africa/2.html?sect=8
Dr. Wouter Basson took over where Dr. Josef Mengele left off.
Dr. Wouter Basson,
a South African cardiologist
like Dr. Christian Barnard,
was based in South Africa,
where there were lots of "natives" for him to practise on.

Questions have also been raised about the extent of foreign involvement in the South African chemical and biological weapons program. Basson traveled abroad extensively, touching down in Taiwan, Israel, and Croatia. In 1983, he attended a Texas conference on chemical and biological warfare where he came in contact with US, German, Japanese, British, and Canadian army officers. Given Soviet influence in the region at that time, Western offers of technical military assistance and advice to South Africa were part of Cold War strategy and politics.
The discovery of Project Coast has other international implications, as South Africa is a member in biological and chemical arms control regimes. Having ratified the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention and the Chemical Weapons Convention in November 1975 and September 1995, respectively, Pretoria has a keen interest in assuaging the concerns of the international community that have arisen in the wake of these revelations. Under the chemical weapons treaty, South Africa has made no declaration of a chemical weapons program, past or present, to the international inspection agency in The Hague.
South Africa remains in the awkward position of being expected to take responsibility for an illicit weapons program targeted primarily at prominent members of the current government. Moreover, doubts have also been voiced as to whether the Commission’s investigation revealed the entire truth about Project Coast.
http://stimson.org/cbw/?sn=cb20020113266

See also:
Microbiologists With Link to Race-Based Weapon Turning Up Dead

American scientists have declared that in ten years they will succeed in creating a radically new type of biological weapon. This weapon would be capable of infecting people according to a genetically predetermined marker such as skin color or eye shape. Infection could have a delayed effect or only begin once a certain type of medicine was taken. A recent closed seminar held by the CIA was devoted to the topic. The event took place as part of the Project for the New American Century.
http://www.gateway2russia.com/st/art_217290.php

[NickB79]

113. How do you "target" specific genotypes when no "race genes" are known?

There are no known specific sets of genes that can be used as an identifying marker of one's race. How do you build a disease to target a specific race when you don't have a way for the disease to recognize the race?

BTW, HIV infects ALL races equally well. The social and political situation in Africa is what makes this the world's HIV hotspot, not the ethnicity of it's people. FYI, Russia, India and China are expected to overtake Africa in total number of HIV-infected people within the next 15 yrs. If you think actually think HIV is capable of selectively targetting a specific race, then I don't see how anything else you say on the disease can be taken seriously.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. First known AIDS case: adult male in the Belgian Congo in 1959...

<http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9802/03/earliest.aids/>

[NickB79]

63. Discovery of enzymes needed for genetic engineering: 1970's

Enzymes such as reverse transcriptase, ligases, and RNA polymerases were only discovered in the 1970's. Without knowledge and use of these enzymes, you can't isolate and then splice together specific genes from different organisms. How did someone in the 1950's carry out advanced genetic engineering that would take years to accomplish even with today's technology?

[GHOSTDANCER]

66. Interesting how the first case......

was in or around '59 just after, the Second World War about the same time the experiments were being conducted in New Orleans. Coincidence?

Coincidence that Black Death originated right when the Peasants of Europe began to rebel against it's MidEvil rulers?


To neglect the fact that the US or really any other country these days for that matter wouldn't have a policy on containing the worlds population to a minimum for it's own survival purposes would be kidding yourself.

[DrWeird]

117. MidEvil rulers?

Well, those midevil renaysauce rulers were masters of biotechnology after all.

[EndElectoral]

120. Assertion was made in the 80's as well,.and there is some classifed info

from the 70's about experiments regarding this....

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. History of CIA involvement in the Belgian Congo in the 1950s...

<http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2082/is_n2_v58/ai_18167213>

[aquart]

52. Knowledge of retroviruses in the 1950s???????????

Get back to me, ducky.

[UpInArms]

9. a book I read back in the 80s (now in reprint)

that was cutting edge then (and now is used for research) is:

And the Band Played On: Politics, People, and the AIDS Epidemic
by Randy Shilts

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312241356/103-3155540-2713451?v=glance

review:

In the first major book on AIDS, San Francisco Chronicle reporter Randy Shilts examines the making of an epidemic. Shilts researched and reported the book exhaustively, chronicling almost day-by-day the first five years of AIDS. His work is critical of the medical and scientific communities' initial response and particularly harsh on the Reagan Administration, who he claims cut funding, ignored calls for action and deliberately misled Congress. Shilts doesn't stop there, wondering why more people in the gay community, the mass media and the country at large didn't stand up in anger more quickly. The AIDS pandemic is one of the most striking developments of the late 20th century and this is the definitive story of its beginnings. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.


From Publishers Weekly
"An exhaustive account of the early years of the AIDS crisis, this outlines the medical, social and political forces behind the epidemic's origin and rapid spread," reported PW . "The book stands as a definitive reminder of the shameful injustice inflicted on this nation by the institutions in which we put our trust . . . a landmark work." 200,000 first printing; author tour.
Copyright 1988 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.


Book Description

By the time Rock Hudson's death in 1985 alerted all America to the danger of the AIDS epidemic, the disease had spread across the nation, killing thousands of people and emerging as the greatest health crisis of the 20th century. America faced a troubling question: What happened? How was this epidemic allowed to spread so far before it was taken seriously? In answering these questions, Shilts weaves weaves the disparate threads into a coherent story, pinning down every evasion and contradiction at the highest levels of the medical, political, and media establishments.

Shilts shows that the epidemic spread wildly because the federal government put budget ahead of the nation's welfare; health authorities placed political expediency before the public health; and scientists were often more concerned with international prestige than saving lives. Against this backdrop, Shilts tells the heroic stories of individuals in science and politics, public health and the gay community, who struggled to alert the nation to the enormity of the danger it faced. And the Band Played On is both a tribute to these heroic people and a stinging indictment of the institutions that failed the nation so badly.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. That was a VERY thought-provoking work.

[Ima]

115. And the Band Played On

Good book. Reagan had his head up his ass and wouldn't do anything.

For all you doubters that aids isn't man made;

Do you find it at all odd, that no members of government get aids?
What about all the rich and powerful?
They are sexually active and promiscuous.

A nurse friend of mine believes they have a vaccine to prevent it.
While I'm not sure of that, it certainly is thought provoking,

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. This was also an excellent movie

[tinanator]

12. thats crazy talk

why would the US government/military want a weapon that is primarily effective against blacks? What does Africa have that we want? Besides diamonds and strategic minerals and all manner of resources in vast quantities? Whites have always been very considerate of the health and well being of their dark skinned cousins, so I'd say this is clearly a case of monkey business.

[Minstrel Boy]

13. Yeah, I know. Like, why

would the CIA have a hand in introducing crack to LA blacks in the 1980s?

It's unhelpful when Michael Ruppert says things like "African-American leaders don't need anything beyond what's in Dark Alliance to batter down the doors of Congress and say, 'You want proof? Here's the damn proof!'"(http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/RendGW.html)


This kind of talk only makes us look mad, bad, and dangerous to know.

[Gregorian]

16. 80's? Heroin was introduced in the 50's

It's too early for me to remember anything. But, I have heard first person accounts of the entire scene that happened. It was most revealing. How the FBI, or CIA, used heroin to screw up the black communities. Darnit, I'm not very believable when I can't site more specific stuff. But I heard it in music interviews from old guys who used to play in the clubs. And the FBI would have goons literally sitting in the joints. They had some system where the musicians had to pay to have cards that allowed them to play the clubs. There was a very clear and damning reasoning behind the introduction of heroin into the black communities.

As for aids, I heard a carefully put together discussion, over ten years ago, that made a very frightening case for the man made virus.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. The OSS during WWII was the first U. S. intelligence outfit...

...to learn about the use of drug trafficing for a variety of purposes. One of those puposes included being able to develop a source of revenue outside that of normal tax revenues. Another purpose involved the control of others through addiction.

By the way, the OSS' teacher was the French Mafia with whom they worked very closely in the Atlantic Theater of operations.

[Chelsea Patriot]

36. Horse-'50's, Crack-'80's, Tina-'90's-present

Introducing drugs into a community, one wishes to destroy is an age old ploy. Look at opium and China in the 19th Century.

But of course, factions in our government would never, ever do that to populations in this country.

One would be such a silly goose to think otherwise.

[aquart]

54. Opium has been around for a looooooooooooong time.

Ever hear of laudanum? People used it for toothaches, or getting to sleep, or whatever.

Cocaine was a pep-you-upper in Coca Cola. Cocaine was used fictionally by Sherlock Holmes. When these items were being played with, we didn't have a really good idea of what made addiction.

Alcoholics lacked willpower to stop drinking. Or their wives weren't supportive enough. Remember any of that garbage?

Addictable people will use whatever's handy. My cousin used heroin. If he couldn't get that, pills, NyQuil, beer, WHATEVER. I remember him trying to talk me out of my Ritalin his first day back home. His father uses Scotch or gin. The family used to BRAG about Grandpa: 4 packs of cigarettes, two quarts of whisky A DAY. But he wasn't an alcoholic, oh no.

It's nice to believe addiction is a CIA plot. I have no problem believing they supplied drugs for secret money. But pretending the addicts wouldn't have been addicts without that particular drug being made available? THAT's delusional.

[Chelsea Patriot]

96. Of course, I've heard of Laudanum. I've read Silas Marner.

Who said anything about addicts not being addicts if certain drugs weren't available?

I'm talking about a group of people making very dangerous drugs available to populations that they wish to either destroy or control.

This group of people depend on, as you say, "addictable people" to become addicted to their drug.

Opium was introduced into China by an Anglo-American faction bent on destroying the Chinese and seizing their natural resources.

I believe that Smack, Crack and Tina have been introduced at various times in our country's recent history in attempts to destroy the targeted populations.

[shrike]

110. Huh?

Anglo-Americans introduced opium in China???

Now I've heard everything.

[Sterling]

78. Crack is not H bro.

different drugs.

[slackmaster]

122. Totally wrong

Heroin was invented by the Bayer pharmaceutical company in the 1890s. It was originally sold as a cough suppressant (and it works quite well for that purpose, other effects notwithstanding).

[Amigust]

75. Actually, the people AIDS is effective against

are the people social conservatives accuse of being "immoral" — those who violate religious sexual prohibitions and illegal drug users.

It was clear during the Reagan years that The Saint was not interested in saving their sorry asses (sarcasm).

[AMD_CPU]

95. You mean whites can't catch HIV???

Whew. Good to know I'm in the clear.

All things being equal, HIV doesn't care what color skin a person has.

[tinanator]

97. thanks for disregarding context

not to mention historical records and trying to bend things to fit your agenda. very amusing.

[frustrated_lefty]

15. Nonsense

Look, it wasn't until the 1950s that we determined DNA was the basis of heredity. It wasn't until the '70s that we discovered RNA viruses and realized how reverse transcriptase fits into the central dogma of Watson and Crick. Basically, human science hasn't progressed nearly far enough to create or engineer a virus like HIV.

Consider a few facts:

HIV-2, which infects old-world primates, does NOT cause disease in those primates. This is an OLD virus that primates have adapted to.

When HIV-2 is infused into new-world primates, it DOES cause an AIDS like disease.

This is simply a virus which jumped a species barrier. Come on, there are identifiable immunodeficiency viruses for cats, cows, horses, goats (or is it sheep....whatever "caprine" equates to), apes, the list goes on and grows. This stuff just exists.

Maybe I'm a loonie, but I've spent the last ten years studying HIV and making it a tool for gene therapy. In all honesty, I think people are to stupid to have "created" such a virus. And we simply didn't know enough about viruses to have intentionally adapted HIV to infect humans in the proposed time-frame.

<putting my tinfoil cap back on>

[alarimer]

25. You are a voice of reason

Some people will believe anything. This is just another conspiracy theory; you can't always believe what you read. Just because someone wrote a book doesn't make it true. I choose to believe the CDC.

[Liberal Veteran]

27. Exactly. It's just like the various bird flus which jump to humans.

The timeline of HIV preceeds our ability to genetically engineer a virus in this manner.

[tinanator]

118. sure doesnt preceed our ability to utilize a "natural" virus as a WMD.

Successful genetic engineering by the typically incompetent bastards
who steal tax money via defense contracts? That would be a laughable claim. Not a bad red herring though!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. I guess those folks working in those classified New Orleans monkey labs...

...must have been terribly confused then.

Questions for you...are you now, or have you ever, worked on classified government projects involving bacterium and/or viruses?

Is it possible that even if you had worked in the classified arena that projects could be going on around you that you would know nothing about?

And is it also possible despite your rather condescending response that scientists could very well have worked on the afore-mentioned projects about which you know nothing?

[AngryAmish]

19. Nobel peace laureate is a whack-job

[seventhson]

22. If you do NOT believe it is possible that HIV was biowarfare gone wrong

then your mind is sadly and completely closed

[alarimer]

79. It makes no sense as a biowarfare agent

It acts much too slowly (it may take years to actually develop the disease) and there is no guarantee of transmission to other people. Unlike, say, influenza or smallpox, which are transmitted much more eaily through the air. I would think those diseases would be more attractive as biowarfare agents for this reason.

[JVS]

84. That's the cunning genius of it.

;-)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. Now THERE'S a response that we can all evaluate fairly....

...you just won't like the verdict.

[Minstrel Boy]

20. "Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola. Nature, Accident or Intentional?"

Next on my reading list.


"In the March/April 1996 issue of Well Being Journal, under the article titled 'Magic and AIDS', it was revealed that Dr. Leonard Horowitz of Harvard University confirmed that the HIV virus "is a result of a biological warfare program, created by national cancer researchers under the auspices of a Federally funded Special Cancer Virus Program (SCVP). Horowitz's book, Emerging Viruses, provides powerful and provacative evidence that the spread of AIDS was a result of this program."

From an interview with the author:

NULL. What is your proof?

HOROWITZ: What they were creating were viruses that would attack the immune system. They essentially, in these reports,they took SV40, which was the 40th Simian monkey virus discovered by Maurice Hilleman, at Merck, and they took this monkey virus, and they extracted the nucleic acid out of it leaving a blank viral envelope, technically called a phage, and then they infused it with cat leukaemia RNA, and anyone who knows AIDS victims will know they suffer from a laundry list of cat leukaemia like symptoms, and then they put chicken sarcoma RNA, and they took that combination, called a viral hybrid, and what they were looking for was a diagnostic test for human leukaemia, and also a vaccine to prevent human leukaemia, and sarcomas, and interestingly enough like you said earlier we never had the skyrocketing incidence of leumeias and sarcomas, and Karposis sarcoma was almost unheard of---elderly men got it, occasionally Africans got it but it was a benign type of Karposis sarcoma that they got. Well interestingly enough between 1962 and 1974 in the Special Cancer Virus Research Programme which was published by the NIH…you see that leukaemia sarcoma complex was the principle cancer researchers study area that they were concerned with, and what they did, to get it to be a useful diagnostic test for human leukaemia and sarcoma, and to develop vaccines, they then cultured it in human white blood cells so it would allow it to jump species. That is how it could possibly jump species. If you have these monkeys in the monkey facility where the containment was abysmal, recorded in the Congressional record, in the early 60’s. Bernice Eddy and Mary Stewart were the first researchers to discover the SE Polyoma virus, the first virus know to cause cancer in almost every animal that it was injected into, and interestingly enough it was later determined that that was identical to SV40, that these researchers took and they modified it with leukaemia virus, cat leukaemia RNA, and chicken sarcoma RNA, and essentially these things were breaking out all throughout their labs and we have recordings that show the researchers were extremely concerned about these outbreaks that were going on in their own facilities.

The AIDS type of viruses were definitely being produced.

NULL: They would argue that they were doing it for cancer research in order to help find an answer to cancer.

HOROWITZ: Absolutely, but we have an abstract accepted wherein we state we could not rule out the genocidal theory. There essentially was a document which we also published in an earlier book called Deadly Innocence and we reprinted the text out of it which literally is an appropriations request from the Dept of Defence in 1970 wherein they request 10 million dollars for the development viruses to essentially knock out the human immune system, and this was, we tracked down, a request that was put through from the highest positions of the US government that virtually the buck stopped with Henry Kissinger according to the Frank Church investigations commission which was investigating the illegal storage of biological weapons by the CIA in 1975, which was several years after Nixon signed the Geneva accord outlawing those types of practices. What we found was that it was the National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council, Gary, that informed the Dept of Defence that these types of biological weapons could be developed over 5 years for a cost of 10 million dollars, and we learned that it is most plausible that how the NAS and NRC was able to inform the Dept of Defence that, was because they were already doing that. Researchers that I have talked about at the NCI, had those contracts beginning in 1962 to actually do that work, and we published the proof it the book Emerging Viruses. I literally took the governments own documents I found in the basement of Davis Library, University of N Carolina an incredible book called the Special Virus Cancer Programme which had all the government contracts including what they did and how much they were paid, and based on that evidence it is clear to me how it was that they could inform the Dept of Defence that they could do that in 5 years.

http://www.whale.to/w/ebola.html

[aquart]

49. What year did they do all this?

[ecoalex]

91. The cancer virus flow chart

If you go to www.boydgraves.com , the same virus chart is used to show the origin of the aids virus. Dr Graves has a sworn statement from one CDC scientist that in fact aids was created , and the development is documented on this chart. It amazes me, that people try to pass this truth off, as a conspiracy, when the time line, and evidence correlates well.

[ecoalex]

21. Aids was made by the U.S. Army a fact

Aids was made by the U.S. Army at Fort Dietrick Md.There is a biological lab there, where Nixon ordered the aids virus to be created finishing up the work of the Nazis with the Visna sheep virus.Only after gene splicing was successful was AIDS made ( mid 70's ). It is a combination of two leukemia viruses from animals. For more on this see wwww.boydgraves.com . She is very right, aids was created as a tool for genocide against the blacks and gays. The facts are all there.

There is a cure for aids also, see Tetrasil infusion . There is a vaccine for aids also the CDC has it.

Help Dr Graves show the drug companies, and the U.S. government for who they trully are, purveyors of death and genocide, now profit mongers for the pharma corporations.

[Chelsea Patriot]

39. It all comes back to Operation Paperclip, doesn't it?

Those Nazi emigres apparently had recipes for HIV and Crystal Meth.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

56. Fact?

Or a desperate inner need to believe that something or someone really IS in control of things?

The white guys did it! They know everything! And they can fix it if they want to.

Pathetic.

[Character Assassin]

92. Since my other post was deleted: You are pathalogically delusional

Back up your claims with something other than bogus, self-referential internet sites.

You defame this website by your snakeoil claims.

[seventhson]

23. Radiation and AIDS: It MIGHT have been the synergistic effects of germ

warfare AND radiation in the 1940's and 50's in the South Pacific.

Dr. Ernest Sternglass (noted scientist and former Director of the Apollo Lunar Scientific Station project for Westinghouse) proposes that radiation from nuke tests came down as rain and snow at Mount kilimanjaro and found its way to Lake Tanganyika and its environs - getting into the water, fish and food. This is where the epidemic or pandemic began - the destruction of our immune systems.

like radiation damage to millions in the Northeast from nuke tests in the northern hemisphere (that rained radiation down on New England and elsewhere), nuke tests in the south pacific rained down on the mountains of Southern Africa.

I believe that this, combined with bioweapons in the Congo, created the combination of Ebola,AIDS, and other mutated strains gone amok both in part intentionally and also accidentally (altho it was known that there were HUGE radiation risks)

Sakharov predicted in the 1950's that radiation from nuke tests would cause mutations of viruses and bacterias in humans and cause such pandemics (and hence he was silenced by the nuts in the Kremlin)

So do not dismiss her claims too easily. She is the most respected person on the planet today for her wisdom.

[NickB79]

114. HIV originated in the 1930's, a decade before nuke testing started!

It is widely accepted, through research into the "molecular clock" of the HIV virus that charts it's mutation rate, that HIV first entered the human population in the 1930's. The first known case was from a merchant marine who DIED of it in 1959. Assuming he lived a few yrs after catching the disease, he probably caught it in the mid-50's. That means that, based on your hypothesis, HIV entered the human population, spread widely enough that it was in the African prostitute population (the likely source of infection for the unfortunate merchant marine) all within 10 yrs of the FIRST nuclear bomb being detonated? Hell, the majority of the radiation released into the atmosphere was done in the LATE 50's and early 60's.

[truth2power]

35. Just to clarify my thinking here, could someone explain this?

I have read elsewhere, and am open to the possibility, that HIV was deliberately created.

But how would one create a biological agent that would wipe out the black population without having it bleed into other populations as well? This, given that there is no "pure" stock. We are all an amalgem of many different racial identities. Genotypically, anyway.

[TankLV]

40. Well, just look around - they couldn't.

HIV infects EVERYONE, regardless of race.

These criminal FOOLS have created and unleashed another monster due to their dim-witted intentions.

[glitch]

46. Close - but not quite. 10-15% of Europeans with CCR5 deletion

resistant, some cases immune to HIV infection.

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/medizin_gesundheit/bericht-23515.html

Still, only mad men would risk developing a virus that would target such a huge population. Especially knowing the tendency of viruses to mutate!

But, we are talking about mad men.

[Jim Sagle]

37. Chickenshit bullshit.

[ecoalex]

41. The Cause of Aids. The theories in this forum are hilarious

Ending the Censorship on the U.S. Causation of AIDS

By Boyd Ed Graves

[e-mail]

December 23, 2003

To the people of the world:


As we end this calendar year, 2003, we can clearly see that we are some ten years ahead of their timetable, this day in the year 2012. We welcome any further ensuing minor challenges from around the world. They too will be directed to our experts www.boydgraves.com/comments .

This continent we have called Africa and have thrust our most intimate desires upon for its resources, is being purposefully vanquished of its people. Our long range material lust for the diamonds and gold, in which to sanctify American pro-creation, will continue to lead to more and more stealth, genocidal crime policies as best described in Public Law 91-213.

On the eve of Saint Patrick’s Day in 1970, Richard Nixon boastfully signed the public law and before passing out pens, declared (regarding Africa’s “over-procreation”), “There will be explosive events in the last third of the 20th” Century”.

The former President’s remarks will live in infamy, throughout all time.

Shortly thereafter, the United States was ready to associate the nazi sheep disease, VISNA with human disease. That disease is HIV, according to the United States from their official proceedings. See, PROC NAS Vol. 83, pp. 4007 – 4011, June 1986. The science paper concludes ‘HIV/AIDS evolved from nazi sheep VISNA disease’. To further show the co-mingling of HIV/AIDS and VISNA, Dr. Robert Gallo displays electron microscopes of the ‘identical’ nature of the HIV/AIDS and VISNA at Science, Vol. 223, pp. 173 – 177, January 1985.

The United States narrates in 1971 in one of the 15 progress reports of the development of HIV/AIDS, that nazi sheep VISNA Disease, had not YET been associated with human disease. See page 39, progress report #8 (1971), U.S. SVCP (1948 – 1978).

I am today proposing an open scientific debate on the mostly secret, U.S. Special Virus-Cancer Program (SVCP) as the ‘cause’ of HIV/AIDS. I believe the people of the world want to know the truth. I believe the 1971 flowchart www.boydgraves.com/flowchart/ of this secret virus development program provides “absolute evidence” of the mindset behind the ethnic disparity of AIDS.

In this same breath, I am also proposing an immediate global implementation of the U.S. patented cure for the synthetic AIDS, patent#5676977 (“TETRASIL”). This one time infusion AIDS cure is a ready remedy for Africa in its effectiveness and cost Turning on the fire hoses of TETRASIL will ‘stabilize’ the continent’s people. We can not and should not wait until 2012..

I seek the support of the good people of the world, to achieve our final goals of global truth on the medical and science states’ research on synthetic ethnic viruses as weapons of mass destruction. I believe it is worthy to note that the Secretary General of the United Nations, the Honorable Mr. Secretary, Mr. Kofi Annan is now on record as proclaiming that AIDS is a weapon (of mass destruction). A global review of the “fully-disclosed”, U.S. Special (AIDS) Virus program will prove it.



###
For case background, trial transcipts, video, and U.S. Special Virus materials please visit archives at http://www.boydgraves.com/
For U.S. Special Virus Review Donations
http://www.boydgraves.com/donate
For more information contact:
Dr. Boyd E. Graves: 216-382-9252 [e-mail]
Zygote Media: 1-866-246-2772 [e-mail]

[Anarcho-Socialist]

42. It's a conspiracy theory alright

...but there's no evidence to support it.

Africans were dying in the Congo in the 1960s of what was then called "Slims Disease" which the lipodystrophy element of AIDS was indentified from. HIV was not 'invented' in US military labs in the 1970s.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

44. What the scientists say...

From http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

During the last few years it has become possible not only to determine whether HIV is present in a blood or plasma sample, but also to determine the particular subtype of the virus. Studying the subtype of virus of some of the earliest known instances of HIV infection can help to provide clues about the time of origin and the subsequent evolution of HIV in humans.

Three of the earliest known instances of HIV infection are as follows:

A plasma sample taken in 1959 from an adult male living in what is now the Democratic Republic of Congo

HIV found in tissue samples from an American teenager who died in St. Louis in 1969.

HIV found in tissue samples from a Norwegian sailor who died around 1976.



Analysis in 1998 of the plasma sample from 1959 was interpreted5 as suggesting that HIV-1 was introduced into humans around the 1940s or the early 1950s, which was earlier than had previously been suggested. Other scientists have suggested that it could have been even longer, perhaps around 100 years or more ago.

In January 2000, the results of a new study presented at the 7th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections, suggested that the first case of HIV infection occurred around 1930 in West Africa. The study was carried out by Dr Bette Korber of the Los Alamos National Laboratory. The estimate of 1930 (which does have a 20 year margin of error), is based on a complicated computer model of HIV's evolution.

[ecoalex]

45. She is correct, the U.S. made the aids virus

Ending the Censorship on the U.S. Causation of AIDS

By Boyd Ed Graves

[e-mail]

December 23, 2003

To the people of the world:


As we end this calendar year, 2003, we can clearly see that we are some ten years ahead of their timetable, this day in the year 2012. We welcome any further ensuing minor challenges from around the world. They too will be directed to our experts www.boydgraves.com/comments .

This continent we have called Africa and have thrust our most intimate desires upon for its resources, is being purposefully vanquished of its people. Our long range material lust for the diamonds and gold, in which to sanctify American pro-creation, will continue to lead to more and more stealth, genocidal crime policies as best described in Public Law 91-213.

On the eve of Saint Patrick’s Day in 1970, Richard Nixon boastfully signed the public law and before passing out pens, declared (regarding Africa’s “over-procreation”), “There will be explosive events in the last third of the 20th” Century”.

The former President’s remarks will live in infamy, throughout all time.

Shortly thereafter, the United States was ready to associate the nazi sheep disease, VISNA with human disease. That disease is HIV, according to the United States from their official proceedings. See, PROC NAS Vol. 83, pp. 4007 – 4011, June 1986. The science paper concludes ‘HIV/AIDS evolved from nazi sheep VISNA disease’. To further show the co-mingling of HIV/AIDS and VISNA, Dr. Robert Gallo displays electron microscopes of the ‘identical’ nature of the HIV/AIDS and VISNA at Science, Vol. 223, pp. 173 – 177, January 1985.

The United States narrates in 1971 in one of the 15 progress reports of the development of HIV/AIDS, that nazi sheep VISNA Disease, had not YET been associated with human disease. See page 39, progress report #8 (1971), U.S. SVCP (1948 – 1978).

I am today proposing an open scientific debate on the mostly secret, U.S. Special Virus-Cancer Program (SVCP) as the ‘cause’ of HIV/AIDS. I believe the people of the world want to know the truth. I believe the 1971 flowchart www.boydgraves.com/flowchart/ of this secret virus development program provides “absolute evidence” of the mindset behind the ethnic disparity of AIDS.

In this same breath, I am also proposing an immediate global implementation of the U.S. patented cure for the synthetic AIDS, patent#5676977 (“TETRASIL”). This one time infusion AIDS cure is a ready remedy for Africa in its effectiveness and cost Turning on the fire hoses of TETRASIL will ‘stabilize’ the continent’s people. We can not and should not wait until 2012..

I seek the support of the good people of the world, to achieve our final goals of global truth on the medical and science states’ research on synthetic ethnic viruses as weapons of mass destruction. I believe it is worthy to note that the Secretary General of the United Nations, the Honorable Mr. Secretary, Mr. Kofi Annan is now on record as proclaiming that AIDS is a weapon (of mass destruction). A global review of the “fully-disclosed”, U.S. Special (AIDS) Virus program will prove it.



###
For case background, trial transcipts, video, and U.S. Special Virus materials please visit archives at http://www.boydgraves.com/
For U.S. Special Virus Review Donations
http://www.boydgraves.com/donate
For more information contact:
Dr. Boyd E. Graves: 216-382-9252 [e-mail]
Zygote Media: 1-866-246-2772 [e-mail]

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

64. Oh for pete's sake.

Was it really necessary for you to post this entire thing twice? Just link back to your first post.

[reprobate]

47. Anyone who denies conspiracies has no knowledge of history.

Conspiracies have been a standard in 'regime change' thoughout history. The American Revolution started as a conspiracy. The Russian Revolution. And the French Revolution. All started as conspiracies.

If they are using high technology to further thier intentions, thats just a reflection of the times, not a proof against the conspiracy.

[aquart]

58. What Bushlike reasoning.

I'm not denying conspiracies. I'm denying THIS conspiracy. All conspiracy theories are not equal.

BTW, put your mind to work on the timeline. The plague aspect is pretty much traced to the partying for the bicentennial. Damn slow, inefficient
way to wipe out your enemies. What if they wised up sooner? Was there a conspiracy to poke holes in condoms?

Personally, I find this conspiracy theory to rank with deliberate disinformation, put out to discourage the discovery of real conspiracies like BCCI.

[Chelsea Patriot]

102. A Whole Generation of Gay Men Were Wiped Out Within a Few Years.

I saw nothing slow or inefficient about the devastation AIDS wrecked on my generation, and continues to do so to this day.

What if lethal drugs, AIDS, and BCCI are all components of one large conspiracy that has been enacted against the American People since the end of WWII?

It's all about Operation Paperclip!

[JohnLocke]

53. And that's why she did not win the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine

:D

[Anarcho-Socialist]

57. Very true n/t

[geek tragedy]

60. I guess ignorant fools can win Nobel prizes too.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

65. Indeed.

>I guess ignorant fools can win Nobel prizes too.

Kissinger.
Arafat.

[geek tragedy]

88. They're not ignorant fools.

Just terrorists and war criminals.

I guess she compares pretty well.

[GHOSTDANCER]

62. OOO Snaps

[Finder]

68. The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment

There have been conspiracies and bio studies. This was a "conspiracy theory" for how long before our gov came clean.

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment

"The United States government did something that was wrong—deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist."
—President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997


For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”

Using Human Beings as Laboratory Animals...



http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html

[GHOSTDANCER]

74. Another reason to be disgusted with the US government.

Damn my list gets longer everyday.

[w4rma]

69. I know for a fact that there are alot of hateful folks who are quite happy

with the AIDS virus. Decimating black folks at the greatest numbers. Killing off gays, folks who sleep around and poor folks more often than others. And the right-wing sets up roadblocks against folks who try to prevent the spread of AIDS at every point.

Based on that circumstantial evidence, folks should wonder. Look on Freakrepublic to see how they feel about AIDS. Those crazies perfectly represent the prevailing attitude within the Republican leadership.

That said, I think it's more a matter of allowing an existing virus to spread. Worrying about whether it was created in a lab or not is a red herring, imho.

[crossroads]

73. Conterfeit Christions no doubt! Jesus would be proud!

Sheeesh...
:eyes:

[found object]

70. the Fed's and drug co's are coming out of the woodworks

Thanks for the post Rooboy! :evilgrin:

[brentspeak]

72. Holy cow, what a nutcase

When was the last time anyone was able to create HIV from scratch in a lab?

[clover]

100. clean up your arguments

,or at least get an understanding mental illness, and then decide if "holy cow what a nut case" advances any sort of discussion, in any context, or whether it merely panders to the morbid fear of powerlessness and marginalization that accompanies disorganized thinking and/or behaviors. pandering is lazy, as is name-calling: witness the tactics of karl rove and his funny company.

[SOS]

76. Wangari Maathi

forwards two guesses before settling on "some laboratory in the West".

First guess: eating monkeys, but she "doubts" that.
Second guess: A curse from God. She says "it can't be that".

Dr. Beatrice H. Hahn has done more than guessing.
From Science News:

HIV-related viruses still cross species line

"Scientists generally agree that simian viruses resembling the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), which causes AIDS, originally spread from chimpanzees and sooty mangabeys to people in central Africa (SN: 2/6/99, p. 84). Researchers now have hard evidence that other variations of simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) occur in wild nonhuman primates and continue to cross into people in Africa."

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20010210/fob6.asp

For more info on the referenced bushmeat trade see:

http://www.karlammann.com/

[lovuian]

80. I agree with her

it was manmade...definitely

[struggle4progress]

81. In the mid-1980's, I owned an RCP poster that pushed exactly ...

... this idea.

The microbiologists I knew then all told me that not enough was known, and that research proceeded much too slowly, for anybody to believe that HIV was engineered.

[Princess Turandot]

82. weren't most of the initial HIV infections in the western hemisphere...

at least on a widescale basis? the original 'gay plague'? Or did the CDC or USAMRIID target the gays first? Is ebola also an American project? Polio in the early part of the 20th Century? How about the recent avian-related flu in China?

Maybe this woman's ignorance is indicative of why HIV is spreading in Africa: an unwillingness to believe that the HIV virus leads to AIDS as the President of South Africa announced a few years ago, and a lack of resources for education/barrier protection to halt transmission, and to treat people who become ill.

Polio is making a comeback in parts of the world such as India, because Muslims who live there in some cases think the vaccine
is a plot by Hindus to kill them.

I also would assume that a scientist in the late 20th century who is trying to create some form of biological/chemical warfare, usually would want it to kill people a bit more quickly than AIDS does.Ebola would have been a relatively better choice.

Personally, I think Mother Nature develops viruses as part of normal,
albeit often very unpleasant, population control, of all sorts of species, including homo sapiens.

[Nostradamus]

83. Gallo engineered, then "discovered" virus

Horowitz and Cantwell are the two sleuths who have done the digging here and Horowitz has written a book on the subject. AIDS was definitely engineered as it has more to do with cat and mouse leukemia ( the base organism for the experiments in making cancer-causing viruses ) than simian retroviruses.

My own theory is that it was a fuckup. The AIDS virus was produced in the same labs as a smallpox vaccine for Africa and a hepatitus vaccine for gay men trialled in Africa and NY/SF respectively and contaminated both vaccines. This explains the outbreaks. Others hint at a darker scenario where is was engineered to kill Africans.

Horowitz's book : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0923550127/qid=1097356885/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8__i7_xgl14/002-0433191-5113659?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Cantwell : http://www.gaytoday.com/garchive/hiv-aids.htm

Robert Gallo was a project officer of "a massive virus inoculation program that began in 1962 and ran until at least 1976, and used more than 2,000 monkeys. The monkeys were injected with everything from human cancer tissues to rare viruses, and even sheep's blood, in an effort to find a transmissible cancer. Many of these monkeys succumbed to immunosuppression after infection with the Mason Pfizer monkey virus, the first known immunosuppressive retrovirus, a class of viruses that included the immunodeficiency AIDS virus."

Laboratory viruses were forced from one species of animal into another species, and by the mid 1970s new cancer viruses were created by the process of genetic engineering. In the process, the so-called "species barrier" was routinely breached. During the 1977-78 period, the Virus Cancer Program produced 60,000 liters of cancer-causing and immunosuppressive viruses.

This vast military research was made possible through the assistance of the NIH and the NCI. In his 1991 report, "Cancer Warfare," Hatch concludes: "While Nixon ordered a supposed end to BW offensive efforts in 1969, the CIA retained a secret BW and toxin weapon capability. Given this record of deception in the U.S. BW program, the Viral Cancer Program may well have used the search for a cure for cancer as a cover to continue its experiments on biological warfare."

As predicted by the biowarfare experts, new cancer-causing monster viruses were created that had a deadly effect on the immune system. In one experiment reported in 1974, newborn chimpanzees were taken away from their mothers at birth and weaned on milk obtained from virus-infected cows. Some of the chimps sickened and died with two diseases that had never been observed in chimpanzees. The first was Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (later known as the "gay pneumonia" of AIDS); the second was leukemia, a cancer of the blood.

http://gaytoday.badpuppy.com/garchive/health/070797he.htm

[Minstrel Boy]

90. what a great first post!

Thanks for the contribution, and welcome to DU.

I have Horowitz's "Emerging Viruses" and hope to read it soon.-

[PATRICK]

109. Did anyone mention the Rhodesians and South Africans

and their WMD programs and Hatfill's odd participation in their labs during an anthrax outbreak? It seems at least coincidental that the racist whites, beleaguered and isolated were working on in this field and were willing if not able to do it. Also there is a larger connection to larger geo interests and African powers trying to perform a large raid in the chaos upon the continent's fallow resources. the coups are still going on fast and furious under the auspices of Thatcher's son and others who lost their BCCI bank due to Kerry.

But more to the point, besides the deaths of microbiologists, smelling a rat, and the peculiarities of the disease at least tailored by fate to benefit global thieves and racists, what are the genetic earmarks of the virus? I have heard it casually set aside and then the natural source theory explained in depth, when it would have been better the other way around- except that modern journalists and the public have little patience or understanding of scientific detail but love a story.

I am sure there is disagreement but the particular proofs or evidence of tampering must go beyond suspicion and coincidence. It even could have been an accident. That is yet another story closer to an engineered virus, but the needed proof to force the truth is in the coding and ITS story.

[Jack Schitt]

85. It wouldn't suprise me if it was.

Seems like all the major viruses these days are created in a lab.

[DrWeird]

93. That's a shame.

To bad the Prize committee hadn't found this out first.

Perhaps the biggest fuckup since Kissinger.

[crossroads]

99. This is my #1000 DU post! :P

And I wish to say Congrats to the lady in Africa on her win!
:bounce: :dem:

[nolabels]

105. She must have been on the internets again

List of Murdered Scientists



May 27, 2002

#1 Dr. David Schwartz.. murdered at home..
#2 Dr Benito Que... dead in the street...
#3 Dr.Set Van Nguyen..dead in airlock refrigerator.
#4 DR.Don Wiley.. vanished.. car abandoned...
#5 Dr. Vladimer Pasechnik Dead near his home. ..... Feb. 2002...
#6 Dr. Ian Langford .Russian.. beaten to death in his home...
#7 DR. V Korshunov... Russian..head bashed in...
#8 Dr A Bushlinski Russian.. murdered..
#9 Dr. I Glebov.. Russian.. Bandit attack....

Also reported that in plane from Isreal to Russia 4 or 5 microbiologists were aboard.. The plane that crashed in the sea near Russia.. that was brought down by missle.. Their names not published.. (that I know of )....

What did these scientists know that was so important that they had to be silenced..????.

(OR, what CURE could they have come up with to what's about to be DELIBERATELY RELEASED??)


Missing / Dead Scientists


Another Leading Scientist Found Dead
(The Times, UK)

Dr Ian Langford, Senior Research Associate in CSERGE, in the UK

British News

February 13, 2002

Mystery death of scientist
By Michael Horsnell

DETECTIVES were last night trying to unravel the circumstances in which a leading university research scientist was found dead at his blood-spattered and apparently ransacked home.

The body of Ian Langford, 40, a senior Fellow at the University of East Anglia’s Centre for Social and Economic Research on the Global Environment, was discovered on Monday night by police and ambulancemen. The body was naked from the waist down and partly wedged under a chair. It is understood that doors to the terraced house were locked.

A post-mortem examination failed to establish how Dr Langford, who lived alone in the house in Norwich, died.
(snip)
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/031121.dead.scientists.2.html
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/03_Disease.index.html

[jwirr]

111. I don't think it is important

WHERE it came from or HOW it got there since we may never be able to prove anything. What IS important is the provable fact that we seem to be treating the people with it as useless unfits who are not worth every effort to contain this disease. If this were treated like polio in the 1950s it would have had number one priority for science and government worldwide. We have let the African continent become a world of elderly and children (the vast majority) and acted as if that is acceptable. We have trouble defining genocide in Sudan. Are we also having trouble defining it in the case of HIV?

[0007]

119. I've always maintained this idea of extermination.

Probably brought to us by the same folks that are in power now.

[ecoalex]

123. Bingo

You hit the nail on the head. Nixon's boyz are in now. Nixon approved the aids virus to be made to kill the blacks in Africa, and here in the U.S. The conservatives added the gay population, specifically in San Fran, and N.Y. Dr Boyd Graves has done all the work to prove it.www.boydgraves.com

[slackmaster]

121. She should stick to her strong subject: Environment

And keep her damnfool mouth shut about topics she doesn't know jack shit about.

[Radius]

124. OMFG

So was Ebola, Sleeping sickness, anthrax, the tutsi fly, malyria, etc, etc.

I guess she is a virologist as well.