Cat Stevens, on Watch List, Diverts Plane (denied entry to USA)

[Newsjock]

Not a joke!
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040921_2176.html

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON Sept. 21, 2004 — A plane bound for Washington from London was diverted to Maine on Tuesday after passenger Yusuf Islam formerly known as pop singer Cat Stevens showed up on a U.S. watch list, a federal official said.

United Airlines flight 919 had already taken off from London en route to Dulles International Airport when the match was made between the passenger and the watch list, said Nico Melendez, a spokesman for the Transportation Security Administration.

a little more; very short story

some more off the wire: no link yet
“He was interviewed and denied admission to the United States
on national security grounds,” said Homeland Security spokesman
Dennis Murphy. He said the man would be put on the first available
flight out of the country Wednesday.

[JoFerret]

1. It must have been for his homophobia

.

[anarchy1999]

99. RING THE PHONES OFF THE WALLS IN THE MORNING!

This is wrong. Cat Stevens denied entry to this country. Have we all lost our collective minds? I'm outraged. Homeland Security my ass.

[JaneQPublic]

144. Cat's plane diverted. Martha in prison. I feel so much safer now. (nt)

[screembloodymurder]

150. You forgot

Bobby Fischer.

[Flammable Materials]

2. He did voice support for the death fatwa on Salman Rushdie.

He had a non-denial denial on his website:

"Under Islamic Law, the ruling regarding blasphemy is quite clear; the person found guilty of it must be put to death. Only under certain circumstances can repentance be accepted.

On 21st February, I was speaking to a group of students at the Kingston Polytechnic, and in response to a question, I simply stated the Islamic ruling on the Rushdie affair. Suddenly. my picture was splashed on the front page of newspapers all over the world next to the headline: 'Kill Rushdie says Cat Stevens'. It is very sad to see such irresponsibility from the 'free press' and I am totally abhorred.

My only crime was, I suppose, in being honest. I stood up and expressed my belief and I am in no way apologizing for it. I expressed the Islamic view based on the Qur'an, the Prophet's sayings (peace and blessings be upon him) and the rulings of the Caliphs and renowned schools of Islamic jurisprudence."

[hlthe2b]

23. He was asked a direct question regarding blasphemy. I heard the

tape of the interview mentioned and he DID NOT say that he agreed with it. I have heard subsequent interviews where he again reiterated that he had only meant to explain Islamic Law and that he'd tried to be clear that he did not agree with the call for a death fatwah on Rushdie.

[HuckleB]

137. I've never seen a quote of him saying he didn't agree with it.

In fact, his "denial" on his own website appears to show that he does agree with it.

[jdj]

46. Shut UP???!!! Whatever happened to "Ride on the Peace Train?"

Jesus H. Cripes, is this why 10,000 Maniacs had "Peace Train" removed from "In My Tribe"? I knew there was a reason, but I never heard what it was...Man, is he an acid casualty or what?

[jdj]

55. Yep, that's why the 'Maniacs dropped the song off "In My Tribe"

"In My Tribe also included 10,000 Maniacs' first recorded cover, Cat Stevens' Peace Train. (After Stevens endorsed the Ayatollah Khomeini's "death sentence" against novelist Salman Rushdie, Merchant said the band would no longer perform Peace Train. "I wish we could take it off the album", she says.)
"
edit:
http://www.gdrmusic.com/atnatalie/library/bmz/8908xxb.htm

[leesa]

113. And you fell for the media con job. Jeez!

[HuckleB]

139. ?

[Carla in Ca]

81. ohhh baby, baby its a wild world....

such a fall from grace is he.

[DBoon]

91. And a fundie preacher calling for death to homosexuals

does not raise a single eyebrow.

Now who is the terrorist?

[The Stranger]

112. I am unfamiliar with what he said about Rushdie, whose work was

masterful, in my humble opinion, and I disagree with Stevens/Islam vehemently regarding his view of religious texts, murder and the rule of law, but you don't really believe that this could be reason for denying someone entry into a country, do you? Please say that you don't. This smacks of taking political prisoners and the eradication of the First Amendment ideals of freedom of speech.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

3. I guess "Peace Train" inciting all that violence...

is what got him flagged. MKJ

[KamaAina]

4. Looks like he'll have to... ride on the Peace Train

Now I've been happy lately, thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be, something good has begun

Oh I've been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one
And I believe it could be, some day it's going to come

Cause out on the edge of darkness, there rides a peace train
Oh peace train take this country, come take me home again

Now I've been smiling lately, thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be, something good has begun

Oh peace train sounding louder
Glide on the peace train
Come on now peace train
Yes, peace train holy roller

Seriously, folks, what did he do, besides convert to radical Islam, to get himself on the list? Oh, right, never mind.

[Darth_Kitten]

10. it's a wild world.....

:(

[olddad56]

77. I think the Cat is being followed by a moon shadow.

[leeman67]

5. Jesus Christ on a Crutch

:eyes:

[Jacobin]

39. Have they picked up Arlo Guthrie yet?

Ya know, Alice's Restaurant, and all.

They nabbed Chong.

Who's next? Bob Dylan.

I think there's an all points bulletin on the Peter, Paul and Mary gang.

[kskiska]

49. Just imagine

if John Lennon were still alive…

[jdj]

58. I heard he's coming into Los AngelEES

'bringin in a couple of keys.

[Carla in Ca]

82. He owned a restaurant way back when

in Malibu called Moonshadows, I believe

[jdj]

62. I don't think Guthrie, Dylan and Chong would appreciate the comparison

Stevens has renounced his music anyway, so their is no reason to throw ourselves up on the cross over it.

[leesa]

114. Bob Dylan swallowed the kool-aid so he's safe.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Climb aboard the Peace Plane!

[Mr_Spock]

7. Hahahahhahahhahaha - stupid fucks wasting more money

Dumb asses.

[Ilsa]

8. He spoke at our College's speaker's forum a few years ago.

They had opened a mosque here, and Yusuf Islam came to speak. I believe he is working on becoming an imam.

[truthisfreedom]

9. aww, jeez, c'mon, man. this is a man of peace who always sang about

peace and love and even his songs about girls were worried ones...

"ooh, baby baby it's a wild world, and it's hard to get by just upon a smile..."

he's not going to hurt a bunch of people on a plane. he might bore them to death with a very non-poppy song these days, i suppose...

[NNN0LHI]

15. "even his songs about girls were worried ones..."

That is hilarious. Thanks for the smiles.

Don

[trueblew]

11. It's Saturday Night and I Ain't Got No Jihad

[lastknowngood]

12. He's one of the bad guys he supported the death of Rushdie

when he got that religion he lost his mind. It's a damn shame people misuse religion for hate.

[hlthe2b]

18. Not true... That is the US propaganda spin.... I heard a tape of the

actual interview with him. He was explaining what a fatwah was and why the Mullahs had taken the stance they did with respect to Rushdie. HOWEVER, he did NOT agree with it. He was only answering a question asked by the press to explain what led to the fatwah.

The same press that so readily paints Dem/progressive politicians any way they want, is also extremely good at propagandizing against Muslims, Arabs, and so many other groups.

[TexasBushwhacker]

85. Even if he agreed with the fatwah doesn't make him a terrorist

I would imagine there are many devout Muslims agreed with the fatwah against Rushdie at least in principal. The Ayatollah Khomeini said that the "Satanic Verses" was against Islam, Allah and the Koran and as such, issued the fatwah in 1989 and it was in effect for almost 10 years. All those MILLIONS of Muslims still never managed to kill Rushdie and almost all of them aren't terrorists either.

[DenverDem]

22. "It's a damn shame people misuse religion for hate"

So we should then expell fallwell, robertson, fred phelps, james dobson, and busholini et al from the country as well, I hope you agree.

btw Cat DID NOT support the execution of Rushdie. Why do you repeat wrong wing propaganda meant to demonize Muslims?

[JoFerret]

35. ...sounds like a plan to me

...or at least acknowledge them all as hate-mongers and keep them under close watch.

[DenverDem]

36. Keep them off planes, too.

anti-Christian bastards.

[Radius]

59. Richard Reid, 911 fucks, lockerbie, wasn't christians making stuff go boom

[DenverDem]

68. Xians make plenty of stuff go boom.

Refer to Iraq.

Who would Jesus "preemptively" bomb?

[CornField]

72. McViegh said he was a Christian.

David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) professes to be a Christian.
Henry Lee Lucas (200+ victims) said he was a Christian.
Gilles de Rais (140+ victims) served with Joan of Ark.

And those say nothing as to the many lives that were extinguished in the name of the Christian god.

It is not only flat-out rude, but completely ignorant, for you to imply that only one religion is or has been responsible for the violence in today's world.

[WillyT]

74. Ahem...

Nuff said.

[bvar22]

76. Don't forget Adolf and the Nazis...

Christians all.

[seventhson]

86. No they were not Christians

I believe it was geobbels (Nazi propaganda minister) who said that since Christianity was a Jewish religion that they should kill all the Christians too.

[lazarus]

89. Gott Mitt Uns, I believe it said

On the belt buckles of the SS. I'd be happy to research and post all the references to Christianity Hitler made. There were plenty.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

128. I call bullshit.

Prove it.

Mein Kampf is full of praises for Christianity. The full text is available online here: http://www.magister.msk.ru/library/politica/hitla002.htm and here: http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt - look it up.

[seventhson]

151. Hitler "PRAISING Christianity" HERE (I say Bullshit back)

Here's a great quote:

"The greatness of Christianity did not arise from attempts to make compromises with those philosophical opinions of the ancient world which had some resemblance to its own doctrine, but in the unrelenting and fanatical proclamation and defence of its own teaching."


(Sorry page number not available for that quote).

I searched the text and readf every entry for Christ or Christianity or Christendom"

There are NO entries for the word "Jesus"


I thank you for giving me the opportunity to explore this issue.

I based my opinion on the fact that Hitler and his inner circle (while catering to some degree to "Christian" interests) were essentially into the pagan Norse Gods. Their runic symbols and the swastika (not the cross) spoke to their propagandist and "s
"Christinaity, according to Hilter. should be more concerened with preserving the Aryan race than with anything humane or compassionate.

Jesus is not even mentioned in Mein Kampf"

The references to Christinaity speak more to its use as an organizing principle in service to an anti-Semitic and racialistic justification for inhumanity and depravity (to destroy the Jews and preserve the Nordic-Aryans). It has nothing to do with Christianity.

Hitler's praise of Christianity goes mainly to its INTOLERANCE of other religious or world viewpoints and, therefore, it was a good model for Naziism.

So - unless you can do what I did and find some wuotes from Mein Kampf to support your statement - I can say "Bullshit" back.

The myth that Hitler was a "Christian" is a pervasive one. Hitler was no more of a Christian than Bush is a or than Sharon is a dvout Jew or Saddam is a Muslim. They may USE religion to keep and use theri power. But they are really much more supporting the antiChrist than the Christ - if you use those terms.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

158. "Hitler was no more of a Christian than Bush is"

So, my point is that he, like Bush, advertised himself as one, aligned himself with them, and jumped into the "holy war" mindset. In no way I implied that he was in any way a "good Christian".

The first four words of your quote (it's real, I checked) -- "the greatness of Christianity", and he means it -- how can it be not considered a praise?

And practicing Christian was never a reason for prosecution in Nazi Germany. That Goebbels quote (which I'm 99.999999% certain is BOGUS) -- where does it come from?

Hitler bashing Jews while praising Christianity in Mein Kampf, from one of the links above (WARNING: EXTREMELY PUKE-INDUCING BS BELOW):

His <the Jew's> life is of this world only and his mentality is as foreign to the true spirit of Christianity as his character was foreign to the great Founder of this new creed two thousand years ago. And the Founder of Christianity <wasn't that Jesus?> made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes.

(...)

<bashing modern churches' lack of intolerance -- like Phelps does today>

How devoid of ideals and how ignoble is the whole contemporary system! The fact that the churches join in committing this sin against the image of God, even though they continue to emphasize the dignity of that image, is quite in keeping with their present activities. They talk about the Spirit, but they allow man, as the embodiment of the Spirit, to degenerate to the proletarian level. Then they look on with amazement when they realize how small is the influence of the Christian Faith in their own country and how depraved and ungodly is this riff-raff which is physically degenerate and therefore morally degenerate also.

(...)

Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts' content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.

He was high on Christian Ecumenism. He argued that Catholics and Protestants should stop fighting and unite against the perceived "real enemy". Sounds familiar?

[seventhson]

160. Hitler was not praising the teachings of Jesus

he was obliterating them.

Praising the institution and the church is not the ssame thing as praising the teachings of Jesus.

His take on the use of religion id hateful and insane - that is all I'm saying.

I am trying to find the source for that Goebbel's quote but it struck me when I read it and , as a researcher, it made a big impaCT --- BUT i DID not MAKE A NOTE OF THE EXACT SOURCE. SORRY.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

162. Googled. It's NOWHERE.

So, my assessment remains.

Bogus.

My guess is whoever wrote what you read pulled it from his ass.

[seventhson]

167. No - I could not find it in google either. I read it in a history

of the third reich and I believe it may have been a biography of Goebbels. Something like that wouild not easily appear on a web search unless the text was cited somewhere.

As for pulling it from their ass - I was really dumbstruck as a researcher when I read it. It was in a book on a friend's bookshelf (a US Attorney) in Washington DC who is Jewish. We discussed the quote and I found it a pretty stunning event because I too had always heard that Hitler "used" Christianity or was a Christian.

But I do not get anything from Mein Kampf to support the notion that Hitler thought anything more of Christianity or religion in general as a means to promote fascism - and that it was a very useful tool for that purpose in the same way that Stalin felt religion was an "opiate" for the masses , Hitler used it as a propaganda tool solely for the "religion" of Aryan supremacy (which is the absolute antithesis of the teachings of Jesus IMHO)


Abyway - If I ewver track the 4exact source down I will let you know. It was a reputable source as I TRY to be (altho like anyone occasionally screw things up).

[reorg]

155. without the church Hitler would have been nothing

While there were few, very few oppositional Protestants like Niemoeller, the majority of German Christians supported Hitler and Nazism.

>> ... Going by what the Christian clergy teach about the virtues that the faith inspires, Nazism, Hitler's wars, and the Holocaust should not have been possible. Not only did they occur, but with insignificant and wavering exceptions, neither theologians, clergy, nor ordinary Christians as individuals, nor churches as corporate bodies, objected. In fact they overwhelmingly supported them. Look at three of the most distinguished German Protestant theologians--Gerhard Kittel, Paul Althaus, and Emanual Hirsch. These men were highly respected, extremely erudite, uncommonly productive, and internationally known professors, each at a different, first-class university.

Professor Robert P. Erickson did an unusually comprehensive investigation of the three theologians' writings, utterances, and activities as they pertain to Nazism and the Jewish Question. He reports his findings in a book, Theologians Under Hitler. If anyone should know whether submission or opposition is demanded of the followers of the living Christ when confronted with a regime as totally reprehensible as that of the Nazis, surely it would be these theologians.

What conclusions did Erickson reach as to the stance of the three men who would be expected to exemplify the ultimate in the embodiment of those noble values that millions of Sunday school children are taught attach to Christian folk? They are grim:

"They each supported Hitler openly, enthusiastically, and with little restraint." In fact, they deemed it the Christian thing to do. They "saw themselves and were seen by others as genuine Christians acting upon genuine Christian impulses." Furthermore, all three tended "to see God's hand in the elevation of Hitler to power." Hirsch was a member of the Nazi party and of the SS. The Nazi state, he said, should be accepted and supported by Christians as a tool of God's grace. To Althaus, Hitler's coming to power was "a gift and miracle of God." He taught that "we Christians know ourselves bound by God's will to the promotion of National Socialism." ... <<

http://members.aol.com/IslamTeam/hitler.htm

[bloom]

163. Here's are quotes for you:

"Thus, Protestantism will always stand up for the advancement of all Germanism as such, as long as matters of inner purity or national deepening as well as German freedom are involved, since all these things have a firm foundation in its own being..." pg. 113

----
"Is the preservation of German-Austrianism possible under a Catholic faith or not? If yes, the political party had no right to concern itself with religious or denominational matters; if not then what was needed was a religious reformation and never a political party.
Anyone who thinks he can arrive at a religious reformation by the detour of a political organization only shows that he has no glimmer of knowledge of the development of religious ideas or dogmas and their ecclesiastical consequences." pg.114
----

"The greatness of every mighty organization embodying an idea in this world lies in the religious fanaticism and intolerance with which, fanatically convinced of its own right, it intolerantly imposes its will against all others. If an idea in itself is sound and, thus armed, takes up a struggle on this earth, it is unconquerable and every persecution will only add to its inner strength.

The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine." pg. 351

Mein Kampf
-----

Note that he refers to Christianity in the past tense.


It certainly isn't my impression that he wanted to kill all the Christians - esp. the ones that seemed to embody "Germanism" - but Christianity does not seem to be esp. important to him either. And he despised pacifism.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoFerret]

37. here is Salman Rushdie on yesterday's hotheads ie. Stevens et al

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/rushdie/yes_its_about_islam.htm

[hlthe2b]

53. I can certainly understand where Rushdie is coming from....

If I were him, I doubt I would give any Muslim benefit of the doubt...

Nonetheless, he does acknowledge a change in Stevens and others, even if he continues to believe they were originally buying into the "hothead" rhetoric.

[gottaB]

164. he acknowledges a "repackaging" not a genuine change

Yesterday's hotheads (among them Yusuf Islam, aka Cat Stevens) are improbably repackaging themselves as today's pussycats.

The word "improbably" signals Rushdie's scepticism regarding the true sentiments of Islamsists like Yusuf Islam.

According to Rushdie's formulation, Yusuf Islam is a seller, not a buyer of Islamist rhetoric.

[leesa]

121. You're lying. Is that christian?

[Lerkfish]

123. Its amazing how repeating something false over and over...

inserts it into the public psyche as truth.

[quaoar]

124. 'Slap in the Face'

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3531469

[mountainvue]

13. This is bullshit!

John Ashcroft and the Neocon cabal must go. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

[hlthe2b]

14. Ahhh Jesus! How ridiculous!

I am so friggin over this muslim hysteria.....

[MeinaShaw]

95. It is not all hysteria

That Armstrong guy just had his head cut off on video by Muslims didn't he?

[quaoar]

97. Did Cat Stevens cut his head off?

[hlthe2b]

142. Tim McVeigh was "Christian" and a Terrorist.... So what's your point?

:eyes:

[UpInArms]

16. more proof that this stupid mal-administration has

absolutely no credibility or judgment.

:puke:

[SineOfNothing]

17. Did Cat Stevens really support the death of Rushdie?

What on Earth would possess him to support such an act of murder?

[Radius]

21. Fundie Islam(nt)

[hlthe2b]

25. If you read the thread above there are at lest five posts dispelling this.

[JoFerret]

38. ...and here is Rushdie himself

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/rushdie/yes_its_about_islam.htm

[hlthe2b]

54. see my post #53

[MeinaShaw]

98. Interesting article.

Rushdie is certainly convinced. He, of course, has had to spend the last 20 or so years looking over his shoulder about what he wrote about them. Should we all be careful what we write about the Islamists or are they going to kill us anyhow because of what we did in Iraq?

[Radius]

19. supported hamas

http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/s/stevenscat-foreigner.shtml
http://www.npr.org/programs/wesun/features/2000/jul/000730.yusufislam.html

Hamas is classified as terrorist organization..

[DenverDem]

26. Hamas was started by Israel.

Palestinians do deserve a place to live, however.

[Radius]

47. They can thank arafat..

Clinton's envoy's quote was that he had NOTHING to contribute to the entire peace process.

He figured he'd do better with the intifada.

[funnymanpants]

78. Stop repeating propaganda

Clinton was hardly honest in this regard. The envoy Malley (sp?) refutes Clinton's claim.

As to Arafat starting the intifada, that is pretty ridiculous. Ariel Sharon marched to the Temple Mount with a thousand armed troops in what the UN called "provovactive." The Palestinians responded with stone throwing.

The Israelis responded by *firing live amunition* at the Palestinians. Over 100 Palestinians were killed in the first month; only around a dozen Israelis were killed in the same time frame, and none by suicide bombers. The actions of Israel caused the passage of Security Council Resolution 1322, passed on October 19, 2000, a resolution which condemned Israel for their brutal actions.

The idea that Arafat started the intifida is refuted both by the UN human rights report and by the US-Mitchell report. Both independently scoffed at the idea that Arafat planned the attack.

Arafat continued to negotiate with Israel and both sides met in Tabba in I believe February of the following year (2001); negotiations were broken off because Sharon got elected and refused to negotiate.

As to your claim later that Hamas blows up innocent Isralis, well, of course they do and this is terrible, but keep in mind that Israel has killed over 3 times as many Palestinians in what the UN called "deliberated killings" and "torture." This wording is from a UN General resolution that passed in December 2002 by a vote of something like 142-2, with only the US and Israel voting against it.

[hlthe2b]

29. Hamas is classified today by the US as a terrorist organization for

obvious reasons...It has not always earned that reputation and many in the Arab world view the good that they had traditionally done for the poor (like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt) as reason to support them financially.

I'm not saying it is right, just that it is more complicated than we tend to view it as westerners.

[Radius]

33. They

blow up women and children on public transportation and restaurants, on purpose. No accident, intentional, repeated murder. That is their tactic to punish Israel, kill civilians.

I can't remember if it was hamas or the al aqsa who shot the pregnant lady and her kids point blank. Including an infant in child seat, with an AK. Pretty black and white for me.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[jdj]

42. they didn't say they didn't hate Likud as well.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[SidDithers]

71. There have been a few M-60 rounds going into kids in cars too...

Nothing is ever cut and dried.

Sid

[leesa]

117. You are not behaving like an adult if you cannot see that the US and

Israel both do the exact thing you described in your above post. THAT is the mark of a bigot.

[brentspeak]

83. Well that's a logical conclusion

Someone points out the undeniable murderous activities of Hamas, and you conclude that he or she hates Muslims. Your accusation would be better directed at Hamas, since besides killing Israelis, they also seem to enjoy executing suspected Palestinian collaborators and dragging their corpse throughout the streets.

[leesa]

118. Thank God us Murkins don't torture and murder innocent people!

[hlthe2b]

43. I'm not defending their actions now, though one could certainly draw

parallels with Israel's retaliatory actions. There are no clean hands in the PI conflict.

The fact is that Hamas has populist roots, which (ignoring for a moment its goals for a Palestinian homeland), explains why many throughout the ME support them.

My tax dollars went to support US terrorist activities in Latin America, including efforts to depose elected governments. My tax dollars are going today to support a war that the world community views as illegal and supported torture at Abu Ghraib. Yet, I do not consider myself a terrorist. I support what the US is supposed to be, just as many Arabs support what Hamas (and the Muslim Brotherhood, and many other such organizations) were originally meant to be. That the actions of both have veered so far from those original noble goals is fact. But the supporters of both should not be painted with such a simplistic paint stroke.

[Cheswick2.0]

73. and the Israelis have killed 3 times as many Palestinians

to say nothing of takeing their land and bulldozing their homes.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

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[The Stranger]

159. Likud-led Israel does the exact same thing.

Dropping 2,000 lb. bombs on apartment complexes knowing full well that innocents will die is murder.

No accident, intentional, repeated murder. That is their tactic to punish the Palestinians, kill civilians.

It happens nearly every day.

[gottaB]

165. Yes, it is complicated

Did the Muslim Brotherhood emerge primarily as charitable organization, or did it emerge as a hijacking of Islam and Arab nationalist sentiment by a group of fanatical antisemtic fascists?

In order to understand what the similarities between Islamist and Nazi imaginations are based on, we have to look at the history of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood which was founded in 1928 and which established Islamism as a mass movement.

The continuing significance of the Muslim Brotherhood for Islamism is comparable to the significance of the Bolshevik party for Communism in the 20th century: The Muslim Brotherhood is the organizational as well as the ideological core which successfully inspired all subsequent Islamist groups and tendencies. No other organization has influenced the ideology of the al Qaida cadres more strongly than the Brotherhood and its leading members Hassan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb and Abdullah Azzam have.

In addition, the Muslim Brotherhood has been the organization which first created the concept of a belligerent jihad for our modern times and which turned the longing for death into an Islamic ideal . This is of particular importance, since Islamism stands for a fundamentalist understanding of Islam combined with the explicit purpose of creating a belligerent jihad. As early as 1938, Hassan al-Banna, the charismatic founder of the Brotherhood, presented his own version of jihad in an essay called “The industry of death”. In this article, he did not describe the horror of death but instead depicted death as an ideal to long for. Hassan al-Banna wrote: “To a nation that perfects the industry of death and which knows how to die nobly, God gives proud life in this world and eternal grace in the life to come.”

The concept of belligerent jihad was welcome with enthusiasm by the “Troops of God” as the Brotherhood referred to itself. Whenever their battalions marched down the boulevards of Cairo in semi-fascist formation, they sang: “We are not afraid of death, we desire it... Let us die in redemption for Muslims.” This particular interpretation of the meaning of jihad did not come about until the 1930´s. It should be noted that its concurrence with the arrival of a newly virulent antisemitism is verified in no uncertain terms.

Islamic Antisemitism And Its Nazi Roots

Hamas acknowledges its connection to the Muslim Brotherhood and "the Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory." What are their views regarding "the industry of death"? Is their view of jihad consistent with a more general understanding of jihad as devotion to God's work, or is it specifically geared towards antisemetic violence?

Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

Charter of Hamas

That is the slogan of Hamas, according to its charter. In addition to exhortations to kill Jews, the charter also expresses humanitarian concerns and reaffirms the organization's commitment to human rights. It is indeed complicated.

[peacetalksforall]

30. Supported Hamas? With money? Most people of faith believe in

equal rights for Palestinians. If we state that, are we put on a list?

[Radius]

41. If you support Hamas with money

you are a Federal criminal in the US.

Give to the red crescent if you have want but Hamas is classified as a terrorist organization and therefore illegal for you to give money to.

[hlthe2b]

48. Tell that to Dick Cheney who was funneling money through Haliburton

subsidiaries to Iran, among other outlawed countries.

[Radius]

52. I don't know dick about that.

But the law is simple if you fund Hamas you are a criminal in the US. You will be prosecuted and jailed in a federal facility.

[hlthe2b]

64. Obviously not... Take a look at the investigations of Greg Palast

www.gregpalast.com

Karl Rove and his best bud, Grover Norquist were intimately associated with several Muslim Charities that have since been formally investigated for terrorist activities. Yet, prior to 911, Bush spiked these investigations (needed those Muslim Votes). Take a look at this article and several others in Palast's archives:
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=103&row=4


As for the Cheney "misdeeds" take time to read:
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8498
The Greed Factor
Sanctions against rogue regimes would have been abandoned if Dick Cheney had had his way.

By David J. Sirota and Jonathan Baskin
Web Exclusive: 09.15.04
Beyond blatantly mischaracterizing Democrats’ positions on defense, these shameless attacks serve to distract from the vice president’s own proclivity for undermining American foreign policy. The record shows that over the last decade, Cheney was willing first to do business with countries on the U.S. government’s terror list, then to travel abroad and condemn U.S. counter-terrorism policy when it got in his way. In the process, Cheney proved repeatedly he could be trusted to put Halliburton’s bottom line ahead of his country’s national security.

As Secretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush, Cheney helped lead a multinational coalition against Iraq and was one of the architects of a post-war economic embargo designed to choke off funds to the country. He insisted the world should “maintain sanctions, at least of some kind,” so Saddam Hussein could not “rebuild the military force he’s used against his neighbors.”

But less than six years later, as a private businessman, Cheney apparently had more important interests than preventing Hussein from rebuilding his army. While he claimed during the 2000 campaign that, as CEO of Halliburton, he had “imposed a ‘firm policy’ against trading with Iraq,” confidential UN records show that, from the first half of 1997 to the summer of 2000, Halliburton held stakes in two firms that sold more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was in charge. Halliburton acquired its interest in both firms while Cheney was at the helm, and continued doing business through them until just months before Cheney was named George W. Bush’s running mate. --more--

[hlthe2b]

65. Grover Norquist was actively working through a Muslim "charity..."

later found to be a terrorist front, in order to deliver Arab votes to Bush in 2000. See Greg Palast's excellent investigations with BBC. Though Illegal, Bush* et all conviently looked the other way. More:

Karl Rove and his best bud, Grover Norquist were intimately associated with several Muslim Charities that have since been formally investigated for terrorist activities. Yet, prior to 911, Bush spiked these investigations (needed those Muslim Votes). Take a look at this article and several others in Palast's archives:
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=103&row=4


As for the Cheney "misdeeds" take time to read:
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8498
The Greed Factor
Sanctions against rogue regimes would have been abandoned if Dick Cheney had had his way.

By David J. Sirota and Jonathan Baskin
Web Exclusive: 09.15.04
Beyond blatantly mischaracterizing Democrats’ positions on defense, these shameless attacks serve to distract from the vice president’s own proclivity for undermining American foreign policy. The record shows that over the last decade, Cheney was willing first to do business with countries on the U.S. government’s terror list, then to travel abroad and condemn U.S. counter-terrorism policy when it got in his way. In the process, Cheney proved repeatedly he could be trusted to put Halliburton’s bottom line ahead of his country’s national security.

As Secretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush, Cheney helped lead a multinational coalition against Iraq and was one of the architects of a post-war economic embargo designed to choke off funds to the country. He insisted the world should “maintain sanctions, at least of some kind,” so Saddam Hussein could not “rebuild the military force he’s used against his neighbors.”

But less than six years later, as a private businessman, Cheney apparently had more important interests than preventing Hussein from rebuilding his army. While he claimed during the 2000 campaign that, as CEO of Halliburton, he had “imposed a ‘firm policy’ against trading with Iraq,” confidential UN records show that, from the first half of 1997 to the summer of 2000, Halliburton held stakes in two firms that sold more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was in charge. Halliburton acquired its interest in both firms while Cheney was at the helm, and continued doing business through them until just months before Cheney was named George W. Bush’s running mate. --more

[allemand]

109. He denied supporting Hamas

"Islam was denied entry into Israel several years ago out of concerns that his charitable contributions had funded militant groups. He denied knowingly contributing to any such groups."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39772-2004Sep21.html

[johnfunk]

56. Hamas? I support Babaganoush...

... there;s no reason they can't coexist in my falafel!

[Gregorian]

20. I was expecting this. No kidding.

And to think that he converted decades ago. America is beneath him. I mean, just listen to his music. What a sad comment on the state of our country.

[peacetalksforall]

24. I don't know the subtleties of the Rushdie thing, it seemed a little

contrary to the persona that came across the airwaves and through his albums prior to his conversion...but I'll always liked his music. I think the stations should go on an old song blitz.

At least he's not in jail.

I'd like to know more details about Ashcroft's list.

[DenverDem]

27. "I'd like to know more details about Ashcroft's list."

That statement just got you on it.

[David Zephyr]

28. Wow! We Really Have Become a Fascist Nation. How Very Sad.

This will reverberate around the world folks. Bush has made a mockery of our beloved country. A mockery.

Cat Stevens prohibited from entering the U.S. because of "national security reasons".

Now I've seen everything.

[anarchy1999]

80. Cat Stevens denied entry to the us of a. My heart is broken, beyound

repair.

"Everybody knows"

Leonard Cohen

[Conservativesux]

108. No you havent....

Not until you see FOUR MORE LONG YEARS of Bushco, you havent!

IMO, the goose-steppers in the WH are giving the Nazi's a bad rap.

[hlthe2b]

31. Mods: this thread has the potential to degenerate into a racist flame

especially given the RW lurkers that these kind of threads often attract. Please keep an eye on it.....

We have enough Muslim hatrid in this country as a result of the Bushies and their RW fundie core-- I'd like to think we could avoid it here...

[rooboy]

32. Yet Richard Perle continues to travel internationally. How ironic. n/t

[anarchy1999]

88. Don't forget Armitage, Wolfowitz and all the rest including Negroponte.

I have a feeling my days are numbered here and every where else.

Just google for yourselves, Iran/Contra

See you all on the other side of many veils.

[teryang]

34. Next homeland security will check on family trees

...for impure Islamic blood.

[amber dog democrat]

45. Our govt no longer represents me -

when it does things like this. I will always rever his songs. We need to regain our sanity. Maybe his statements were taken our of context or were distorted.
I would prefer to thing that freedom of expression is respected. It seems otherwise.

[johnfunk]

50. Oh, baby, baby, it's a wild world...

... and it's hard to get by when you're a Muslim convert who's critical of the United States who gets lumped in with heretics to Islam like that Osama thug.

[peacetalksforall]

51. I wonder how many people made a living selling his music.

Studios, agents, mega stores like Best Buy, musicians, technicians, musicians, stores, royalty agents.....I don't know the business, but I can imagine the scope of the business of his portion of the music world.

He's contributed a big chunk to the U.S. economy over decades.

I will always believe in the Peace Train.

[truthisfreedom]

57. c'mon everybody, let's not let this thread deteriorate into one of those

that the moderators move away from the news section. at least cat managed to get into the news, right? and he didn't even have to make any music to do it! 8^) smile everybody! 8^D

[AuntPatsy]

60. Im surprised no one has wondered why Swaggart who openly

stated he would shoot a gay man for looking at him is still getting national air time as well as being a friend to our president, I would have to conclude that was a terrorist threat of extreme proportions..

Is our country not in danger of having a bit of a problem by defining terrorists of being strictly of Muslim faith?

[Furity]

61. Wow

When I was a kid, I attended Camp Christian (yes, that's the real name). They used his song "Morning has Broken" as the wake-up song every morning. Now he's a "terrorist". Wow.

~Furity

[DemBones DemBones]

90. "Morning Has Broken" was written in 1931 by Eleanor Farjeon

(lyrics, that is) and the tune is a Gaelic melody.

Some 40 years later, Cat Stevens recorded it.

On edit: It's in a lot of hymnals, including the one used in my Catholic parish. Don't know how often it's used elsewhere but we sing it in our church.

[mmonk]

63. Bwaha ha ha!

[dweller]

66. jeez, i'm going back to live in the trees

this cat is serious trouble :eyes:

I'd like to live in a wigwam
Yes I'd like to live in a wigwam
I'd like to live in a wigwam and
Dance round the totem pole

I'd like to live in an igloo
Yes, I'd like to live in an igloo
I'd like to live in an igloo and
Fish from an icehole

I'd like to ride on a caravan
I'd like to take a ride on a caravan
Yes, I'd like to ride on a caravan and
Sing with the gypsies

I'd like to live on a commune
Yes, I'd like to live on a commune
I'd like to live on a commune and
People can call me a hippie

I don't want to live in a palace
No, I don't want to live in no palace
Oh I don't want to live in no palace
There's too many empty rooms

I don't want to live in a barracks
I don't want to live in a barracks
Oh I don't want to live in a barracks
And wake up to the bugle tune

I'd just like to live in a treehut
Yes, I'd like to live in a treehut
Yes, I'd like to live in a treehut and
Listen to the sound of the birds

I don't want to live in a jailhouse
Don't wanna bide my time in no jailhouse
No I don't want to live in no jailhouse and
Be fed bread through the bars

I'm glad I'm alive am I
I'm glad I'm alive am I
I'm glad I'm alive
I'm glad I'm alive
I'm glad I'm alive am I

We gotta get our heads up in the sky
We gotta get our heads up in the sky
We gotta get our heads up
Gotta give it time
We gotta get our heads up in the sky

Gotta get to heaven get a guide
We gotta get to heaven get a guide
We gotta have a guide
We gotta get to heaven get a guide
I Want to Live in a Wigwam-Cat Stevens

dp

[indie_voter]

67. ROFLMAO! n/t

[madfloridian]

70. I thought he was Buddhist?

Now I am really confused.

[truthisfreedom]

75. from google

... with a number of top selling albums including "Tea For The Tillerman" and "Teaser And The Firecat." In 1977 Cat Stevens embraced Islam and became a Muslim. ...

http://www.catstevens.com/features/ontheroadtofindout/

[54anickel]

79. I loved that song...Yes the annnswer lies within, so why not take a look

now. Kick out the devils sin, pick up, pick up a good book now.

[struggle4progress]

84. Another link

The Former Cat Stevens Gets Plane Diverted
Wednesday September 22, 2004 4:31 AM
AP Photo NY132
By LESLIE MILLER
Associated Press Writer

<snip> In a statement on his Web site, he wrote, ``Crimes against innocent bystanders taken hostage in any circumstance have no foundation whatsoever in the life of Islam and the model example of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.''

After the Sept. 11 attacks, Islam issued a statement saying: ``No right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: The Quran equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity.'' <snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4506076,00.html

[Gregorian]

87. Peace Train. Not Peace Plane, you dummies.

Peace Train, you idiots. Not Peace Plane.

You know, these morons who are running the show, remind me of the kinds of kids I knew in high school who were the egghead science geeks. They did everything by the letter. I was terrible in science. But in music, I excelled. And there they were, playing music like it was a science exam. These same kinds of people are now going through lists of names and deciding who is and who isn't dangerous. Oh, Cat Stevens became a muslim? (sorry, I don't know). So they put him on the list. These people don't have a fucking clue what they are doing. Put Cat Stevens on a list, yet don't spend funds in order to secure the Holland Tunnel. Bozos!

[DemBones DemBones]

92. Doesn't it occur to anyone besides me that

the feds may have made a wise choice not to allow Yusuf Islam, the former Cat Stevens, to remain in the U.S.?

He sang some nice songs thirty years ago but that's no guarantee of his character or intentions then, much less now. Who really knows anything about this man today?

[quaoar]

93. Here are his comments about the Beslan tragedy

Doesn't sound subversive to me.

http://www.yusufislam.org.uk/beslan.shtml

[regnaD kciN]

105. Well. obviously YOU "don't know anything about this man today"...

...but if you wanted information, you could always check out the web-site mentioned on this thread. Lots of info about his post-music-career life there.

[leesa]

119. Get real! Not ONE person arrested by Ashcroft's blackshirts

for terrorism has had any charges stick and there has not been ONE successful prosecution (out of 5000 arrested). What are the odds??

[elf]

94. a little bit to remember............

http://www.hhstarr.addr.com/cafex/cafex011.ram

[quaoar]

96. Thanks

I enjoyed that.

[quaoar]

100. Here is Yusuf Islam's statement:

http://catstevens.com/articles/00236/

< snip >

So…back in February 1989 I was delivering a talk about my journey to Islam at Kingston University in London, when somebody (probably a disguised journalist) mischievously posed a question about Islam’s view on apostates and blasphemers. As a student who had studied the issue for the first time, I simply did my best by answering direct from legal texts which I had read.

Instead of reporting my response in context, which I naively expected, suddenly the headline in next day’s paper read “Cat Says Kill Rushdie!” Well, needless to say, all hell then broke loose and my political education had really begun. Thank God the newspaper responsible, Today, has since folded and is now out of circulation; unfortunately the monstrous myth it created still survives.

What I actually tried to do at the lecture in Kingston, and subsequently during other interviews, was to quote ‘from the book’ what Islam says about the legal consequences for someone who commits blasphemy within the context of Islamic law where it is adopted and applied, I never ever sanctioned people taking the law in their own hands or overstepping the laws of the Britain which is what the Fatwa of Ayatollah Khomeini proposed. The truth is I never once stated support for the ‘Fatwa’

I was simply a new Muslim who had stated something which I considered quite plain and obvious and if you were to ask a bible student you know what the Ten Commandments were you would expect him to repeat them honestly, you wouldn't blame him for doing so; the Bible is full of similar headlines if you’re looking for them.

< snip >

[DemBones DemBones]

101. Still, for all we know, Cat/ Yusuf is a

wolf in sheep's clothing, and the government had legitimate reasons to deport him.

This rush to defend him because he sang "Peace Train" is silly.

[regnaD kciN]

106. A prime example of the paranoid mind at work...

Sure, he was over here four months ago, raising money for war orphans, but we can't prove he isn't a terraist, so we need to be on the safe side...

Just the same rationale as those who would claim that Democrats should be treated as potential traitors, since no one can prove that we don't "hate America."

:puke:

[merh]

136. So Prince Bandi and his family can fly in and out of our country

for all sorts of shopping sprees and can sit in the WH and smoke cigars with no problems at all (15 of 19 terrorists on 9/11 were saudis). Our country can go to great pains to fly the Bin Laden family out of the country after 9/11, but Cat Stevens is evil.

Sure it makes sense to me!

[tinanator]

154. couldnt the same be said of you?

and you didnt write Peace Train. Who will defend you?
Yes, the government is truly deserving of faith and trust.
Especially in the terrorism department. Were so lucky to have brave steadfast leadership, etc etc

[MisterP]

166. why in hell and damnation should we trust the Chimpire?!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

102. Yusuf Islam quoted in NYT 5-23-89:

<snip>
The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-cat.html

Article linked from the Salman Rushdie listing on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie

[54anickel]

111. 1989? Man, I KNOW I said some stupid things 15 years ago, I would

hope that they wouldn't be held against me enough to DIVERT an entire flight! People do grow and change, his inaction when he made that comment, put together with his actions since that comment should be taken into consideration when you pass judgement - should they not?

Makes you wonder what Ted Kennedy has said in the past to hold that "coveted" position on the Dept of Homeland Insecurity list.

Should they be keeping an eye on this man for his comments 15 years ago in light of what's going on in the world today? I dunno, maybe. But to divert the flight? Isn't there something a bit less drastic in the list of options available to Asscroft's department? If there's not - why the hell not?!

[kcwayne]

126. Will you hold Jerry Falwell's accusation that 9/11 was due to gays

and human secularists against him in 15 years? How about Swaggart's statement that if a gay man looked at him "wrong" he would shoot him on sight? Do you think Trent Lott's Klan association from the 60's might still influence his thinking today?

Cat Steven's statements about Salmon Rushdie, such as the one where he said he would call the Ayatollah to tell him where Salmon was if Salmon came to his doorstep are in this same category of religious insanity.

If you are the security analyst making decisions about who should be put on a watch list, wouldn't you consider someone who made threats to murder on the basis of their religion to warrant consideration?

If I were that analyst, I would have made the same decision unless I was aware of other information about the individual that clearly showed those motivations and "thinking" were no longer relevant based on repeated observed behaviors.

[54anickel]

129. IF they continued to spout it for the next 15 years, sure. And as you

stated in your last sentence...

If I were that analyst, I would have made the same decision unless I was aware of other information about the individual that clearly showed those motivations and "thinking" were no longer relevant based on repeated observed behaviors.

It does appear from other post here that's exactly what has happened. As I stated, in lieu of where we are today, surely they may be justified in his being on the list - but to divert an entire flight? Is this the only option DHS has in their toolkit? If so, they should probably expand that toolkit a bit, don't you think? Shouldn't there be a bit more balance between civil liberties and DHS?

This should be just as much an indictment on DHS procedures as it is on "Cat Stevens".

[kcwayne]

135. If they are on the list, the action is appropriate

Obviously the system failed to keep Stevens off the plane, which would be the preferred action.

But if a threat assessment says someone should not be on a plane, and then the individual(s) hijack the plane as it gets over New York and crash into the downtown killing another 3000 people, the security system would be absurdly flawed, and you might as well not have any security.

The prudent thing to do to minimize the risk would be to divert it from high value targets, hopefully causing the terrorists to abandon their plan. They may go ahead and blow up in the plane, but in the process, the security system saved thousands of lives.

In this case there were no terrorists, so the action might look foolish if one does not consider what the scenarios by which a terrorist might operate once in the air.

[DenverDem]

143. Bullshit. The list is flawed, the intelligence is flawed,

the point of the administration is to demonize all Muslims to justify their slaughter in the busholini inc holy war for the new world corporate globalist order.

[54anickel]

131. Bit more available in answer to your last statement...

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6306615&pageNumber=0

snip>

"When internationally respected Islamic personalities like Yusuf Islam and Professor Tariq Ramadan are denied entry to the United States, it sends the disturbing message that even moderate and mainstream Muslims will now be treated like terrorists," said Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR.

Homeland security officials recently revoked the visa of Ramadan, a Swiss-based Islamic scholar who was due to begin teaching at the University of Notre Dame in Indiana. No explanation for the abrupt move was given.

In Britain, Muslim groups also decried the deportation of Islam, who heads a trust that oversees Muslim schools in the country. He has met with Prime Minister Tony Blair, Home Secretary David Blunkett and heir to the British throne Prince Charles.

"This incident comes only to confirm the farcical and ultimately draconian standards and practices exercised by U.S. immigration authorities," said Anas Altikriti, a spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain.

[kcwayne]

138. Osama Bin Laden is internationally respected

so that is a low bar. As quoted in post 102, Islam had made very radical statements that would take him out of the category of being a moderate.

Awad wants to frame Islam as though he is being persecuted for his religion, when it would appear that he is being scrutinized for his threats to Rushdie, and the suspicion that his contributions are being funneled to Hamas, not for his beliefs. His meeting with British aristocracy and government officials does not necessarily say anything either. Rumsfeld met with Hussein, Bush I met with Noriega, and every western official has met with Arafat.

I am not saying that the suspicion of his supporting terrorists is verified, or that he is a terrorist, because I don't know. But if the statements attributed to him are true, I sure as hell wouldn't want to fly on the same plane with him.

[deacon]

103. He set up a fund for the families victimized by 911 and calls suicide

bombers madmen. So, I dunno why this stuff is going on.

[western mass]

104. I despise Cat Stevens, but this isn't about him

It's about how our lives are being made minutely more miserable in a thousand different ways by these pinheaded fanatics. The "how would you feel if YOUR plane was diverted by these morons" talking point should be on the lips of every Dem pundit and politician from now to November...(like that's going to happen).

[leesa]

120. Why do you despise him. Perhaps because he's a Muslim?

[MaineDem]

107. Bush is due at the same Bangor airport tomorrow

Maybe we can transport him back where he came from, as well!

[peacetalksforall]

127. Yes, to some manor on the moor since he is of British royalty lineage

[lil-petunia]

110. this makes sense

This is so Homeland security.


First Bobby Fischer. Now, Cat Stevens. Obvious threats to the american way of rife.

[AspenRose]

122. Attention Kareem Abdul-Jabar, Ahmad Rashad, etc.

Hakeem Olajewon, Muhammad Ali

Y'all are next....

:eyes:

[autorank]

125. Lets put ABBA on the watch list. n/t

[hang a left]

130. I'm being following by a ........

n/t

[54anickel]

132. More details on making the watch list here -

The mods locked my posting of "the rest of the story".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x845712

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6306615

snip>

"Why is he on the watch lists? Because of his activities that could be potentially linked to terrorism. The intelligence community has come into possession of additional information that further raises our concern (about Islam)," Doyle said.

snip>

Islam was denied entry to Israel in 2000 after the authorities there accused him of supporting Hamas. The former pop star strongly denied the charges and said his charitable donations were for humanitarian causes.

snip>

Homeland security officials recently revoked the visa of Ramadan, a Swiss-based Islamic scholar who was due to begin teaching at the University of Notre Dame in Indiana. No explanation for the abrupt move was given.

In Britain, Muslim groups also decried the deportation of Islam, who heads a trust that oversees Muslim schools in the country. He has met with Prime Minister Tony Blair, Home Secretary David Blunkett and heir to the British throne Prince Charles.

"This incident comes only to confirm the farcical and ultimately draconian standards and practices exercised by U.S. immigration authorities," said Anas Altikriti, a spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain.

more...

[HuckleB]

141. More vagues statements, you mean.

No proof is offered to anyone, as usual. It's the same old generalities that have, thus far, all turned out false, in other cases.

If you are on this list, the US should have to give you every piece of information that "justifies" your being on the list, and it should allow you to make that information public, if you so choose.

Without homeland security accountability, the terrorists win!

:)

Meanwhile, we charge Poles and others $100 to apply for a Visa that we, more often than not, are likely to deny without giving the cause. It's like we don't want anyone to visit the country.

[54anickel]

145. Absolutely, thanks! I stand corrected. "Details" was a poor choice of

wording on my part.

[muriel_volestrangler]

149. British government have actually complained about his deportation

Straw Protests Stevens Deportation from U.S.

Cat Stevens should never have been detained and deported from the United States, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told his American counterpart tonight.

Mr Straw, in New York for meetings at the UN, told Secretary of State Colin Powell that the action “should not have been taken”.
...
US Government sources have claimed that Islam had financially supported the terrorist group Hamas.

But British officials, speaking anonymously, said there was no evidence in the British intelligence community that Islam posed any danger.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3533835

[ChrisK]

133. So they can get Mr Stevens but not..

A young collage-age man from "planting" razors, putty, and a few miscellaneous items on board a plane(s)?

Do they really think a terrorist is going to use a common plane to enter the US?...Maybe they ought to look a bit more south like Mexico or north like Canada where the borders are frayed and easy for one or a group of persons to enter the US unseen.


This is what this "supporter of terrorism" had to say after the September 11th attacks:

I wish to express my heartfelt horror at the indiscriminate terrorist attacks committed against innocent people of the United States yesterday.

While it is still not clear who carried out the attack, it must be stated that no right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: the Qur'an equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity.

We pray for the families of all those who lost their lives in this unthinkable act of violence as well as all those injured; I hope to reflect the feelings of all Muslims and people around the world whose sympathies go out to the victims at this sorrowful moment.

Yusuf Islam

I'm not trying to say he is Mr Clean, Yes he said he supported the Ayatollah )If i remember right) and he answered a question in relations to that Salman Rushdie fella and his book but really..is he a terrosist?...I'm sorry I just don't see it.

I guess McCarthyism is back, just not so "Red" this time

[Laughing Mirror]

134. Paging Dolly Parton! Paging Dolly Parton!

Does anybody know if any performer who has either worked with Yusuf Islam or recorded his songs (as Dolly did Peace Train) have stepped up to defend him? Somebody from the music world should.

[ElementaryPenguin]

140. Bushler: "Maybe we haven't caught Bin Laden - but we did nab Cat Stevens!

That should go over really well in the debates! Kerry can say, "yeah, Bush is making America safer, alright - catching the likes of singer Cat Stevens - gee, I feel safer already, don't you, folks? How 'bout rounding up Elton John, Billy Joel, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen? Let's bring in all them dangerous old pop/rock/folk singers - perhaps we could smoke 'em out, huh war prez?!"

[chookie]

146. " Oh, if I ever lose my rights...."

" Oh, if I ever lose my rights,
And cannot board airplane flights,
If I ever lose my rights,
Hey-eh-eh-eh, hey-eh-eh,
I won't wage jihad no more."

Saw this "debated" on CNN. A security representative -- a token Muslim -- insisted that the government could only have done this because they know something that no one else knows, so we shouldn't question this.

Or anything.

I know I feel safer :eyes:

Cat Stevens may be an asshole, but that is no reason to deport him.

This is faux war on terrorism theater, like John Walker Lindh, and everyone else the Crisco Kid has targetted. They put on show trials of the meaningless, and assure us that progress is being made.

This has implications. The "charity" shit is something they pull out from time to time to justify arresting someone, or deporting them, or even invading their country (Saddam Hussein had made charitable contributions to families of suicide bombers whose homes had been destroyed by Israeli counter-attacks).

Sure, no doubt there are suspect charities. But there are many more legitimate ones, and considering that charity is one of the pillars of Islam, my friends, laugh at this case if you will, but it has implications. I guess charity to Muslims can only be "safely" be carried out by US Christian and Jewish organizations, who of course have no ulterior motive :eyes:

[54anickel]

147. Ewww, especially love your last point! n/t

[MrSlayer]

148. Good, he should be banned from the country for his music alone.

Not to mention his ties to terrorists and extreme Islamic maniacs. Didn't this jackass also support killing Salman Rushdie?

[LynnTheDem]

156. No.

But that's the cut & paste job the US State Media did.

[tinanator]

157. again with the music criticism?

so far your tastes are leaving a bit to desire.

[seventhson]

152. For the record - On Hitler and Jesus

Up in this thread a ways there is a reference to Hitler being a Christian.

I would say that he is no more a Christian than Bush is. Both men use(d) Christianity to prmote hatred because the institutions of Christianity are very effective for that. Hatred of Muslims. Hatred of Jews. Hatred of different "Christian" sects.

From Mein Kampf:

"The greatness of Christianity did not arise from attempts to make compromises with those philosophical opinions of the ancient world which had some resemblance to its own doctrine, but in the unrelenting and fanatical proclamation and defence of its own teaching."


Above in a post their is a refernce to Hitler praising or espousing Christianity in Mein Kampf. There is NO mention of Jesus in Mein Kampf and most of his references are to the instution of the Churches and how they should be focussed on promoting and preserving the Aryans or Nordic "race" and promoting the subjugation and slavery of all other "races".

Christianity in its fundamental teachings is NOT, in my humble opinion, a spiritual tradition which promotes hate - but is quite the opposite: it promotes love and compassion. It has been bastardized and the messages of the Hillelian Rabbi Jesus twisted into depravity by men for the subjugation of others and for the greed and envy of many of its "leaders". As an institution it was useful to Hitler. As a religion, though, it had no place in Naziism. Naziism was anti-religious - or, rather, a religion of hatred and depravity.

Christianoty has BECOME that in many forms as an institution.

But to call Hitler a Christian is like calling Cheney a Buddhist.

[FredScuttle]

153. 'Bout bloody time!

As far as I'm concerned, we've been far too lax in letting U.K. celebrities into the country. Now, how about doing something about that Dame Edna?

[Zhade]

161. This turned at least one Republican away from b*sh.

I was eating lunch in a restaurant yesterday and overheard a Republican ("I've voted Republican all my life, but not now...") talking about this with his friend. Apparently, this was the last straw for the guy.