A strident minority: anti-Bush US troops in Iraq

[seemslikeadream]

Though military personnel lean conservative, some vocally support Kerry - or at least a strategy for swift withdrawal.

By Ann Scott Tyson | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

WASHINGTON – Inside dusty, barricaded camps around Iraq, groups of American troops in between missions are gathering around screens to view an unlikely choice from the US box office: "Fahrenheit 9-11," Michael Moore's controversial documentary attacking the commander-in-chief.
"Everyone's watching it," says a Marine corporal at an outpost in Ramadi that is mortared by insurgents daily. "It's shaping a lot of people's image of Bush

The film's prevalence is one sign of a discernible countercurrent among US troops in Iraq - those who blame President Bush for entangling them in what they see as a misguided war. Conventional wisdom holds that the troops are staunchly pro-Bush, and many are. But bitterness over long, dangerous deployments is producing, at a minimum, pockets of support for Democratic candidate Sen. John Kerry, in part because he's seen as likely to withdraw American forces from Iraq more quickly.

" 9 out of 10 of the people I talk to, it wouldn't matter who ran against Bush - they'd vote for them," said a US soldier in the southern city of Najaf, seeking out a reporter to make his views known. "People are so fed up with Iraq, and fed up with Bush."

With only three weeks until an Oct. 11 deadline set for hundreds of thousands of US troops abroad to mail in absentee ballots, this segment of the military vote is important - symbolically, as a reflection on Bush as a wartime commander, and politically, as absentee ballots could end up tipping the balance in closely contested states.

more
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0921/p02s02-usmi.html

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. 9 out of 10!?!? Troops?!

That's an awfully high percentage and cannot include any marines.
Still, that is great news however stretched it may appear.

[dolstein]

8. No, that's 9 out of 10 people the quoted anti-Bush soldier talks to

It's not a scientific sample.

[DS1]

13. Why can't it include any marines?

:shrug:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. I bet quite a few Marines are disillusioned with FratBoy...

...because holding ground and getting pot-shot is not in the original mission statement of the Marines.

The Marines were originally designed to be a light infantry force with the ability to travel light, strike quickly with overwhelming firepower, secure the objective, and then move on to the next one.

[Jane Austin]

23. We have a friend who is

a lifelong Republican, keen on the second amendment, who is an ex-Marine.

He has two motor bikes: a BMW and a Harley.

He can't stand Bush and there is no way he will vote for him.

He did vote for him in 2000.




(edited for incomplete sentence)

[loathesomeshrub]

29. My husband is an ex marine. Voted for Bush in 2000. Will not do

so again.

[Jane Austin]

35. I'm starting to think that Kerry's base has a lot more

white men than Gore's did. And more and more every day.

Meanwhile, it appears that more women are wanting all this bad stuff to go away so we can enjoy tailgate parties, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Hanuka and Christmas.

It's much more fun to bake Pumpkin-shaped cookies that to think about how this country is going down the tubes.

[patdem]

2. So now, 9 out of 10 or 90% is a minority if it is AGAINST bush*?

but a 6 point lead for Kerry is a DEAD HEAT?

[Flailey]

3. That ain't no poll, son

recognize

[alcuno]

11. No one said it was a poll. Still, the idea that a soldier would seek

out a reporter seems somewhat novel.

[Radius]

14. Col. Hackworth, Vietnam(NT)

[alcuno]

16. I LOVE him!

I think he has an article in Playboy Magazine this month.

[Radius]

17. About Face is an amazing book

I'll check into the article, may pick up the mag "just for the article" ha.

Thanks

[alcuno]

19. It's supposed to be excellent. Happy........reading.

I haven't read any of his books, but I'll check it out at the library. Hope it's not one of those "guy shoot 'em up" books that lose me on page 10.

[Radius]

21. You may get more from the last 3 chapters...

Basically kid joins the army and eventually becomes disillusioned with the failures in the system once he has reached rank of Colonel.

Does contain a good bit about tactics, etc, but the message is excellent.

[alcuno]

25. Thanks.

If I can get through a Tom Clancy novel, I can read that.

[denverbill]

4. I don't understand how 90% constitutes a minority.

I guess that Marine hangs with some elite group.

[Jacobin]

9. What makes Kerry supporters "strident"?

I hate the Fucking American Media.

[PATRICK]

33. Strident means vocal

which is unusual and risky for someone in the military. Of course few officers could afford to be too public. And for every outspoken critic there are probably more cautious less than "strident" ABB soldiers.

Most strident Bush warriors would likely not go to see the film.

However someone could do an "exit strategy" poll to protect the absentee ballots from a change of heart as they go across the ocean?

[Rose Siding]

5. I hope they know we want to bring them home

God bless 'em.

[AntiFascist]

6. That's fantastic news....

and I hope its true. With the military on OUR side, the gutless wonders in Washington have little power, except from the damned media.

[Tempest]

7. The writing on the shithouse walls

The Writing on the Latrine Walls

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_080904A.shtml

I sat with a photographer from Reuters who had just returned from a six-month tour of Iraq. He had been tagging along with the Kellogg Brown & Root operation, subsidiary of Halliburton, and saw everything there was to see. He went from new military base to new military base, from the oil work in the north and back to the south, observing how busy were the contactors for Halliburton.

<snip>

The Reuters photographer I spoke to couldn't get any soldiers to talk about how they felt when surrounded by their fellow soldiers. "They don't talk in the ranks, or just about anywhere on base," he said. "You have to go out to the latrine area, to the Port-O-Potties. For some reason, they talk there. You can read how they really feel - all the anti-Bush stuff, all the wanting to go home - in the writing on the shithouse walls."

[Career Prole]

10. I saw the thread title and remembered CNN's Anderson Cooper who

was reporting from Iraq at the time. He was asked about troop sentiment and he said he was in a latrine that had a Kerry/* running tally featured on most of one wall.
He said "It seems to be running about 50-50. Of course we must remind you that this is not a scientific poll."
Cracked me up. :)

[Eye and Monkey]

27. did the door to the latrine have a sign that said "Freep this Poll!"?

[zbdent]

12. 11/3/2004 - Anti-(president-elect)Kerry militants gathering

In:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
...

you get the idea . . .

[Cocoa]

18. no doubt this sentiment has come to the attention of Rumsfeld

and Wolfowitz. If it's this strong, then surely those two have noticed.

I've been seeing stories about changes to the way military voting will be done this time around, anyone know if this is being watched carefully?

[Bush was AWOL]

20. These guys need to get some more media coverage

The boys on active duty, once informed of all the facts (ie Saddam not behind 9/11, no WMD's, etc) will be overwhelmingly against Bush.

[highnooner]

22. The boys on active duty

were not planning on this a year ago. They thought that they would be home by now. They are pissed that they are in the middle of this mess and want others to know. The war is simply not working out as they were told it would.

[JoFerret]

31. Unlink Saddam and 9/11

That is Bush's magic bullet - the sleight of hand trick/ lie that deceives and dupes. I am always seeing these interviews with soldiers who are full idealism about doing good in the world plus avenging 9/11. With the right leadership imagine the force for positive.

[NNN0LHI]

24. I support these troops

:bounce:

[Zorra]

26. If I were a soldier in Iraq I'd be campaigning fast and furious for Kerry.

" 9 out of 10 of the people I talk to, it wouldn't matter who ran against Bush - they'd vote for them," said a US soldier in the southern city of Najaf, seeking out a reporter to make his views known. "People are so fed up with Iraq, and fed up with Bush."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0921/p02s02-usmi.html

[JusticeForAll]

28. Will these people truly get their votes counted?

I hope they will, but how many will get lost during the journey from the Iraq quagmire to each of the fifty states these troops call home? How many will get intentionally lost, now that stories like these are begining to surface?

"Nobody I know wants Bush," says an enlisted soldier in Najaf, adding, "This whole war was based on lies." Like several others interviewed, his animosity centered on a belief that the war lacked a clear purpose even as it took a tremendous toll on US troops, many of whom are in Iraq involuntarily under "stop loss" orders that keep them in the service for months beyond their scheduled exit in order to keep units together during deployments.

[oasis]

30. An eye opening article. (eom)

[sattahipdeep]

36. "e-y-e," eye-popping article

"We shouldn't be here," said one Marine infantryman bluntly.
"There was no reason for invading this country in the first place.
We just came here and and killed a lot of
innocent people," said the marine, who has seen regular combat in
Ramadi. "I don't enjoy killing women and children, it's not my
thing." http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0921/p02s02-usmi.html

[MadcityRock]

32. They are tools of a * family vendetta

When they watch F911 and hear the shrub say "Besides, Saddam tried to kill my daddy" they'll recognize the real reason they were sent to Iraq. American soldiers are smart, and can see they're not "defending America" but stuck in the desert protecting Halliburton and the * Family's Saudi pals. Let's hope their voices are heard and they get home safely. We need them HERE to raise their families and help US rebuild.

[ElementaryPenguin]

34. Great article! Misleading title

Military must absolutely hate Bushler by now! This Iraq tour is becomming a shittier gig than Vietnam!

:puke:

[0rganism]

37. Whoa! Sen. Kerry needs to hear these guys

One Marine officer in Ramadi who had lost several men said he was thinking about throwing his medals over the White House wall.
...
Specialist Swink, who comes from a family of both Democrats and Republicans, plans to vote for Kerry. "Kerry protested the war in Vietnam. He is the one to end this stuff, to lead to our exit of Iraq," he said.

-------

Sound familiar?

Sen. Kerry, these men want to get out of Persian Hell and back to protecting America from enemies foreign and domestic. Some of them even RESPECT you for protesting the Vietnam war, and are going to do the same things you did when they return from Iraq.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. Just make sure they all get their absentee ballots

we don't want their votes getting lost now, do we?

[Paradise]

40. we need election minders for the military vote! n/t

[JoFerret]

39. Remember the troops who came home

to the UK in 1945 and booted Churchill out. Different scenarion I know. It wasn't from disgust with him but they had their hearts and minds set on a better world.
But always - a great historical precedent to consider.