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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 05:54 PM
Original message
'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate
'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate
By RACHEL L. SWARNS

SILVER SPRING, Md., Aug. 27 - For a moment, the Ethiopian-born activist seemed to melt into the crowd, blending into the sea of black professors, health experts and community leaders considering how to educate blacks about the dangers of prostate cancer. But when he piped up to suggest focusing some attention on African immigrants, the dividing lines were promptly and pointedly drawn.

The focus of the campaign, the activist, Abdulaziz Kamus, was told, would be strictly on African-Americans.

"I said, 'But I am African and I am an American citizen; am I not African-American?' " said Mr. Kamus, who is an advocate for African immigrants here, recalling his sense of bewilderment. "They said 'No, no, no, not you.' "

"The census is claiming me as an African-American," said Mr. Kamus, 47, who has lived in this country for 20 years. "If I walk down the streets, white people see me as an African-American. Yet African-Americans are saying, 'You are not one of us.' So I ask myself, in this country, how do I define myself?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/29/national/29african.html
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just want to be sure I understand this, Kheph
since I'm not registered to read NYT and don't especially care to, right now.

The point of contention here is that this gentleman is an immigrant from Africa who is a naturalized citizen, when the term 'African-American' is being said to apply only to those of African extraction who were born in the U.S. -- is that the 'lede' of this article?

Just want to make sure I comprehend the concept fully before I start nibbling on any of my toes!
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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. That's how I read it too
I don't have any stake in this matter though. I just posted it, as I do many pieces, because I felt others would have an interest in it.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. This would have been a much, much better article, IMHO,
if it had discussed at length the inter-generational psychological and sociological effects of slavery, jim crow and the civil rights movement. I have seen the occasional oblique reference to this issue elsewhere, and I would be interested in reading more about it.

Is anyone else surprised that 2/3 of Harvard African-Americans do not have two parents whose ancestors at some point experienced slavery?
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Reminds me of an experience I had

years ago in the Caribbean. I was at a bar, sitting next to
a African American from Los Angeles. He was trying to get the
attention of the bartender (a African Caribbean) and was totally
unsuccessful. I was getting drink after drink. Finally, I asked
the gentleman from LA what he wanted, and ordered it. The
bartender served it to me, I gave it to the LA guy... and that
was IT for me... bartender would no longer serve me either.
Found out later that they (the Caribbean blacks) have absolutely
no use for "continentals", but I never understood why.

Anyway, a very weird experience.
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. IMO this is a really stupid and unnecessarily divisive article
At various points in their histories, every nationality in this country (except for Native Americans) has undergone some conflict between their "first generation" (eg Kamus), "second generation" (eg Obama) and earlier generations. In the case of African-Americans, shared experiences may differ especially drastically:

Did they grow up in the US? In white-run schools? African-Americans who did not may not understand the distrust of white authority bred during vulnerable childhoods by dealing with many teachers who say one thing and do another when it comes to helping African-Americans achieve.

Were any of their ancestors slaves? Slaves in the US? Slaves in the South?

Did their ancestors experience legal segregation under Jim Crow laws?

"Hispanic Americans", "Japanese-Americans", etc. similarly denote groups of people with more or less in common when it comes to shared experiences. And Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans and other ethnicities have gone through periods when they differed drastically by generation in their experiences of America. But the author of the Times article ignores all these obvious truths.

At least the article doesn't spend time debating whether or not Teresa Heinz Kerry is an African-American!
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yorgatron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. i'll be glad when every citizen is referred to as just plain
"american" i really liked those commercials after 9/11 where all different kinds of people would come on and say "i am an american"
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. my wife and my boss are both "african-american" -- and white!
my wife was born in nigeria, but only because her father was on a work assignment at the time. she left at the age of 3 weeks, had to be evacuated at the start of the biafran secession, and has never been back to africa.

my boss was born in south africa. he came to the states in his teens as his parents sought to leave the emerging unrest. south african wealth cannot leave south africa, so they had to leave everything behind.

both are white. so the term "african-american", which parallels "italian-american" and "irish-american", etc., would seem to apply to both of them, but, of course, no one would think they were or would consider them "african-american".

the fact of the matter is that blacks in this country are discriminated against because they're black, not because they're from africa (possibly many generations ago).

if "african-american" is really just a code for "black", why not just use the term "black"?


anyway, that's just my perspective. no offense to anyone who prefers to be called "african-american". of course, i am always happy to use the term someone prefers to go by, even if it perplexes me. consideration of someone else's feelings is more important to me than insisting on my own views.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. I use the term black.
As a Hispanic in my particular neck of the woods most refer to blacks as black. I dont think I've personally known anyone to use the term "african-american."

Then again we also have the question of what we call ourselves, which we usually use a combination of Mexican, Mexican-American, Hispanic. Some use Latino but I dont think its as common in Texas, but I've heard its more common in say California.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. I knew this was coming.
Our people have been here 400 years. It's a bit stretchy to name themselves like second and third generation Americans. ESPECIALLY when we now have a real African immigrant generation.

Can't wait to see who wins the fight for that awkward appellation.
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I've been thinking about this, too
I'm white, but you can't help noticing that things have changed since the black population in the US was largely made up of the descendents of slaves or more rarely, of free people of color who go back just as far in this country. Used to point that out quite often to white racists of more recent European origin. Now that's not at all the case. There are lots of Caribbeans and more and more African blacks in this country who have a very different heritage. I guess it's just one of those changes that are always happening, but the African-American appellation doesn't seem to work in exactly the same way as it did a few years ago.
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Alenne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is not an issue for most blacks.
Ask most black people what their top 100 issues are and this wouldn't even get on the list.
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's kind of what I was thinking ....
and why I wanted to make sure that was the tenor of the article. I can't imagine most of the people of color I know, when they encounter issues that have to do with their race (and most do, regardless of their demographic), that it occurs to them to ask if the other people who are encountering the same issues were born on U.S. soil or not; have an originating history of slavery or not. What most of them are concerned about is having the world treat them fairly regardless of the color of their skin.
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. George Carlin had a few words about this...
... how he uses the word "black" instead of "African-American". One is because it uses one syllable to six, and how "African-American" is an inaccurate term. Technically, Teresa Kerry is an African-American, but that is clearly not what was intended with the term.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. They are trying to snip at Mama T


She of course was born in Africa and now lives in America. So some say she is African American.

While I would love to claim her as one of our own, it is a play on words IMO.

Yes, she was born in Africa. To my knowledge, her parents were not Black/ Negroid or how ever you want to describe it.

Blacks in the United States were identified as Black if they has even a touch of African blood. The whole thing is so stupid, it still makes me angry.

My grandfather's family looked more White than most White people that I know.My grandmother was dark brown. When I (brown of skin) would go anywhere with him as a child,Whites refused to believe that I was his grandchild. He was proud to be Black and told them so.

Of course we lived in a Black neighborhood. Today we would be called African American.

Theresa Heinz Kerry, as far as I know, was not identified as a child as African in features. From what I know, her family would have been Whites that LIVED in Africa, not Blacks that LIVED in Africa.

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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. We're all African Americans!
Straight outta Africa!

The "out of Africa" hypothesis, forcefully advocated by Dr. Stringer among others, had gained wide support in the two decades since molecular research on the genetic diversity among human populations pointed to a common ancestor in Africa, which inevitably became known as the African Eve. The research was based on evolutionary changes in mitochondrial DNA, which is passed from mother to daughter. Other studies of the male Y chromosome reached similar conclusions.



Fossil Skulls Offer First Glimpse of Early Human Faces

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD -
NY Times June 2003

In the 160,000-year-old fossilized skulls of three Ethiopians — two adults and a child — scientists think they see for the first time the faces of the immediate ancestors of modern humans.


...the 160,000-year-old fossilized skulls of three Ethiopians — two adults and a child — scientists think they see for the first time the faces of the immediate ancestors of modern humans.

"We can conclusively say that Neanderthals had nothing to do with modern humans," said Dr. Berhane Asfaw, a co-leader of the discovery team from the Rift Valley Research in Addis Ababa, the Ethiopian capital.

The second skull was of an even larger adult with modern human characteristics. The third was the skull of a child who died at the age of about 6 or 7 years. All the specimens are being studied at the National Museum of Ethiopia in Addis Ababa.

Except for a few archaic characteristics, they are as recognizable as Hamlet's poor Yorick. They are longer than those of earlier ancestors or any contemporary Neanderthals in Eurasia. Their midfaces are broad, but the nasal bones are tall and narrow. The brow ridges are less prominent than the glowering visages looking down from earlier branches of the family tree. And the cranial vaults are higher and within modern dimensions.

The discovery of the oldest near-modern human remains, announced today, is considered a major step in establishing the time and place for the emergence of anatomically modern Homo sapiens — probably about 150,000 years ago, as genetic studies have suggested, in Africa.
"We can now see what our direct ancestors looked like," said Dr. Tim D. White, a paleoanthropologist from the University of California at Berkeley, who is a leader of the international team that excavated and analyzed the skulls.

That had been impossible until now because of the frustrating gap in fossil evidence between 100,000 and 300,000 years ago, the presumed interval of transition from prehumans to modern humans.
Dr. Christopher Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London, who did not participate in the research, hailed the findings as "some of the most significant discoveries in early Homo sapiens so far."
Another independent observer, Dr. Richard G. Klein of Stanford University, said, "These are basically modern people, remarkably modern in appearance."

The discovery team and other scientists said in interviews that the research appeared to confirm the idea that modern humans originated in Africa and then spread into Asia and Europe. In that case, they said, the enigmatic Neanderthals, which became extinct in Europe 30,000 years ago, could not have been direct forebears of today's humans.
In a report in new issue of the journal Nature, released online this morning, Dr. White and his collaborators concluded that the Ethiopian skulls "represent the probable immediate ancestors of anatomically modern humans" and that "their anatomy and antiquity constitute strong evidence of modern-human emergence in Africa."


But scientists had been unable to pin down the time of origin or find supporting fossil evidence. The earliest fossils of modern Homo sapiens, from Ethiopia, South Africa and Israel, are not much more than 100,000 years old.

If correct, Dr. White's group emphasized, the new research ruled out the alternative multiregional hypothesis, held by a minority of scientists. They proposed that modern humans evolved in different parts of Africa, Asia and Europe at roughly the same time from ancient local populations. The Homo erectus species, which had migrated out of Africa much earlier, were thought to have evolved into Asian humans and European humans, possibly through intermediate stages, including Neanderthals.

Dr. Milford Wolpoff of the University of Michigan, who is a leading proponent of the multiregional theory, questioned whether the skulls had any bearing one way or other on the Neanderthals' place in human evolution. "All the specimens show is that there was a trend of evolution in Africa toward modernity, just as there was in China and Europe," Dr. Wolpoff said.

But Dr. White's group said the fossil skulls showed that Homo sapiens with almost entirely human characteristics had already evolved in Africa before Neanderthals evolved into their classic form. Soon afterward, fully modern Homo sapiens entered Europe, presumably from Africa by way of the Middle East, and the Neanderthals went into their fateful decline.


In a background news release to the journal articles, the discoverers said that even if descendants of the transitional people from Ethiopia "interbred with surviving Neanderthal populations, the latter appear to have contributed very little to the modern human gene pool."
The team concluded, "In this sense, we are all African."
The skull fossils were found in 1997 in an arid valley bordering the Middle Awash River near the village of Herto, 140 miles northeast of Addis Ababa. The fossils were buried between layers of volcanic ash, from which project geologists determined their age to be about 160,000 years. When the people the skulls belonged to lived there, paleontologists said, they hunted and fished on the shore of a shallow freshwater lake teeming with catfish, crocodiles and hippos.
The fossils were so badly fragmented, however, that it took years of cleaning, reassembling and analyzing before the discoverers felt they could report their findings. They also kept hoping they would gather more remains. They collected more than 600 stone tools, including hand axes. But they never uncovered the lower jaws to the skulls or any parts of the skeletons.
Anthropologists suspect that the skulls had been deliberately removed from the bodies as part of some ancient mortuary practice. Close inspection revealed parallel incisions around the perimeter of one skull, more cut marks on the other two. Similar modifications have been observed by anthropologists in societies, including some in New Guinea, in which the skulls of ancestors are preserved and worshiped.
The three skulls, all missing the lower jaws, were excavated a few hundred feet from one another. The most complete one, probably that of an adult male, especially impressed scientists with its humanlike size and shape, very nearly modern.
So the discoverers decided the specimen belonged in the same genus and species as modern humans, Homo sapiens. But there were just enough differences, the scientists concluded, that the fossils were probably a subspecies, Homo sapiens idàltu, to differentiate them from fully modern humans, Homo sapiens sapiens. Idàltu is a word meaning "elder" in the local Afar language.

snip ...

"When we compared the cranium to thousands of modern human crania, several dimensions and characters were outside the modern range," Dr. White said in an interview. "If we just called it homo sapiens sapiens, that implied it's the same thing, and it's actually not the same, though very close."

snip ...

In a commentary accompanying the journal reports, Dr. Stringer said this fossil "helps to clarify the pattern of early Homo sapiens evolution in Africa, as it shows an interesting combination of features from archai, early modern and recent humans."
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I remember seeing that article!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. I tutored Somali immigrants in Portland, and
they were quite emphatic about considering themselves "not the same" as black Americans, not surprisingly, since they come from the opposite side of Africa as the ancestors of most black Americans.

One of the big changes in Minneapolis in the past twenty years has been the arrival of noticeable numbers of Somalis, Ethiopians, and Eritreans, as well as smaller numbers of Nigerians, Liberians, and other West Africans. By this point, there may be as many of them (or nearly so) as of black Americans.

It all makes the appellation "African-American" awkward if the East Africans (and perhaps the West Africans) consider themselves "different" from the descendants of the slaves.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Don't really care. Black folks have much bigger problems, atm, than
a divisive debate over terminology. But, maybe that divisivness is why some folks are pushing this crap.
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