Rueters: Russian Plane Sent Hijack Alert

[iconoclastic cat]

From Rueters

Missing Russia Plane Has Sent Hijack Alert-I'fax

MOSCOW (Reuters) - A missing Russian passenger plane Tu-154 with more than 40 passengers and crew on board sent a hijack alert before disappearing from radar screens late on Tuesday over southern Russia, Interfax news agency said.

It quoted an unnamed government source on Wednesday as saying that the alert was received as the plane was flying from Moscow to the Black sea resort of Sochi.



*****

Not another one.

[nodehopper]

1. yeah, I just read on Russian news, lenta.ru

That the Russian embassador to the UN said this was being considered as a terrorist act.

[krkaufman]

2. I suspect Saddam Hussein was involved. n/t

[rooboy]

17. Yep, has his fingerprints ALL over it... n/t

[lottie244]

26. There was also an explosion at a Russian bus station that killed four

Either its Islamists or Georgians blaming Islamists. Thanks to Bush's war on terra the world is going to go up in flames very soon. After we kill all the people we don't like, we will turn on ourselves once again. The total of all American war dead in all the wars since the Civil War doesn't equal the number of dead from our own civil war. And for what?
People start wars to maintain evil.

[politicat]

3. see these threads

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=774391&mesg_id=774391


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x773959

[iconoclastic cat]

5. Thanks, poli

[DemWitch]

4. I was afraid of this when I first saw two planes down in Russia...

I really, really hope that it's an erroneous report.

Either way, our prayers should go out to the families and friends of those aboard the planes.

[iconoclastic cat]

6. It's not an error. dKos has much more on this thread:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/24/175417/574

[nodehopper]

9. Technically it's still one down

The second one is still missing, as of two minutes ago, according to lenta.ru and utro.ru. The teams dispatched to the presumed crash site of the second plane found nothing. I know there is very little hope, but I can't help hoping that everyone on board of the second plane might still be alive...probably not, though.

[nodehopper]

7. apparently it still is missing

they thought they found crash site but no plane there. just read it on lenta. ru

[Sugarbleus]

8. Just saw report on CNN.......... hmmmmmm

What does this portend, I wonder. I know Russia has been dealing with "Terrorist" attacks for a long time. It doesn't seem to be getting better. So, is this connected to their upcoming elections?

How do we, as American's, feel about these tactics/bombings/hijackings?

[nodehopper]

11. how do we feel?

horrible. More acts of evil, more proof of the kind of evil Imperial politics seem to breed.

[DemWitch]

13. I can tell you how this American feels...

If in fact it is what we all think it is...

I'm sick of people who have no reguard for other human beings and their innate right to exist, despite their diffrences... HEAR THAT OBL AND SHRUBYA...

I'll kill you because you don't beleive in my God... And you'll kill me becasue I don't believe in yours. Horseshit... all of it... If your so goddamn sure of your place in Paradise, then do all a fucking favor and go there... here's the gun... pull the fucking trigger...

For crissakes, we're killing each others children, for what? Wake thefuck up already... Goddess I just want to scream at the top of my lungs for it to all stop already... insanity with weaponry... what is wrong with us as human beings... maybe we don't deserve to have this planet, this gift, after all...

[Sugarbleus]

22. Thanks for the input..... I was "fishing"....

I feel the same as most on this thread.....their grief is no less real than anyone else's. Those attacks in Russia are abominable.

I too am very very sick with all the killing going on around the world.

I'm afraid I'm pretty much fed up with religious zealots, whomever they are/represent. If people have a beef with others...use a different tactic. All this ambusing and bombing (etc) is chickenshit!


~~~I hope to see Peace in my lifetime~~

My deepest sympathies to innocent lives lost in Russia

[Doosh]

10. god bless those passengers and there families

clearly this war in Iraq has made the world a safer place.

[Zynx]

12. Indeed.

[qanda]

14. Maybe we can start talking about something else now

[nodehopper]

15. oh, right. Because those crashed planes and the people that died

aren't important. If you want to talk about something else, go to a different thread.

[qanda]

16. Ah, I was referring to the swift boat issue...

In other words, maybe the press will begin to talk about something other than the swiftboat stupidity.

Perhaps I should have been more clear, but that's still no reason for you to be so nasty. If you didn't understand, you didn't have to assume the worst-- you could have asked.

[nodehopper]

20. ok, sorry

I am really upset. I am from Russia so I am feeling this personally as well as generally.

[qanda]

21. No problem....

And I understand you being upset, I should have been more clear. My thoughts are with you :hug:

[ahimsa]

18. so they didn't learn from our experience?

Nobody else "hardened" their cockpit doors? Made everyone take their shoes off? Etc., etc.?

Or.. are these examples of how weak the new security measures are?

Can it happen here? :scared:

(edited to fix typo)

[Gore1FL]

23. They are Tupolov

Hardening the cockpit doors would entail adding a whole new layer of paper mache'

OK Tupolovs are THAT bad, but Valuejet would have passed up an offer to buy them for safety reasons.

[Robb]

28. Ha!

Boy you got that right! :D

I'm surprised how slowly this story is developing... I expected to wake up to much more news about it. :shrug:

[HereSince1628]

42. I flew a Tupolov from StP to Paris in 2001...

My dominant visual memory is that the overhead was a shelf composed of a system of chromed rails, rather similar to that found in a Greyhound bus in the US. I had a sense that ANY turbulence would send the contents tumbling onto our heads...yet, we didn't experience turbulence and nothing fell on anyone's head...

The flight attendants were professional and courteous, and my impression from my seat behing the wing was that the cockpit door was no less protected that any western aircraft.

[bobthedrummer]

19. This American sends his deepest regrets about hearing this to Russia.

:hug:

[sofa king]

24. Lord help us all if it the Georgians did it.

My condolences to Russia and the families of the victims.

Two different models of aircraft randomly going down in different places after originating from the same airport seems to support the early conclusion that the crashes were a result of terrorist acts.

Unfortunately for Russia, they have their hands full these days with terrorism. It could be a domestic act--politically or criminally motivated. It could be the Chechens again. Worse than that, it could be the Chechens with the support of international Islamic terrorists--Osama and his boys, maybe.

But even worse than that, it could be Georgians trying to send some sort of misguided message about the separatist fighting in Ossetia--or someone else trying to pin it on the Georgians.

If that's the case, well, I'd rather not speculate where that might go. But it would be very, very bad.

[MercutioATC]

25. They didn't really crash. They were "replaced" by Global Hawks with

missile pods and hologram generators and fuel sprayers. Then, they landed at some secret government base, but we have no idea what happened to the passengers and crew (the planes are still being flown by the military at major Russian airports). They both flew at 400 knots with their engines turned off (by remote control).

Hijackers couldn't have been involved, because they're all "patsies". The Warren Report and the fact that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor are proof of this. If you don't agree, you're related to Arlen Specter.

If any wreckage is found, it was obviously planted. The craters they made were actually made by shaped charges. Any DNA evidence claimed is a government lie.

Any eyewitness that don't confirm my story are "PR flacks" and members of the "Truth Ministry".

Sorry, I've obviously been spending too much time in the DU 9/11 Forum...

:tinfoilhat:

[RivetJoint]

27. LMAO

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Funny Stuff!

Thanks. The 9/11 stuff sometimes makes my head hurt, too!
The Professor

[GliderGuider]

31. What IS kind of odd to me...

is how many big identifiable pieces there were on the ground after the crashes in Russia. There are pictures of whole engines, big chunks of fuselage, etc. etc. I thought airliners pretty much vaporized on impact. At least that's what they apparently do in the US. Or are Russian airliners just built stronger than the 757s that hit the Pentagon and crashed in Pennsylvania that didn't leave any big chunks hanging around to be photographed ???

[MercutioATC]

33. The Pentagon crash was characteristically different...

...a 757 hit a reinforced concrete structure. There was plenty of debris, it was just mostly in little pieces.

The UAL93 crash pictures don't show a lot, but there was plenty on the ground, from what I've been told (I believe "hamburger in the trees" was the phrase that was used).

Either way, unless you believe that everything the government says is a lie, there was positive DNA identification made at all four sites and the radar returns don't support any of the "replacement" theories.

Sure, I'd like to see more evidence, but I've yet to see anything credible that refutes the hijacking theory.

[GliderGuider]

37. More evidence would help

"unless you believe that everything the government says is a lie"

That is one option, isn't it?

The problem is that their total lack of transparency in this matter has made it very difficult to determine whether they're telling the truth or not. It comes down to belief - on both sides. I, for instance, have yet to see anything that I feel concretely supports the hijacking story as currently told. More actual evidence would help put the conspiracy theories to rest - they thrive in an environment of confusion and secrecy.

[MercutioATC]

38. Agreed. More evidence WOULD help.

I guess we're just coming at it from different directions. The vast majority of conspiracy theories have huge gaps and factual errors that destroy the premises for their arguments. I've yet to see anything concrete that refutes the "official version".

I'm always open to new information, though, and I would definitely like to see more evidence released by the government.

[JHB]

32. You forgot the footprints...

It's just not complete without something "mysteriosly" falling "in its own footprint"...

[MercutioATC]

34. Damn! You got me!

Of COURSE! The towers collapsed from a controlled demolition (never mind that each tower would have taken literally thousands of individual charges each planted in its own hole drilled into the reinforced concrete supports to bring them down that way).

[The Magistrate]

35. Thank You For The Laugh, Good Mercitio!

Amid such grim and sorrowful news it is a relief....

[MercutioATC]

36. Thanks. That's the way it was meant.

I deal with the possibility of a crash every day (thankfully, it hasn't happened). I don't mean to make light of the subject. It's definitely a tragic event.

[Aidoneus]

30. There is something lost in translation here, it seems

I read a wire piece in the original Russian (which I read extremely poorly at best, but some words I can make out). The phrase used is "distress" for the signal, not "hijack". More recent reports and statements from Russian officials suggest mechanical failure of some sort.

There were reportedly two thousand people combing the crash sites and they cannot find evidence that suggests "terrorism", however much Pooty-Poot's nazi fanbase would like another excuse to let loose another holy patriotic pogrom.. Those who slander the Chechen moqawama with baseless accusations should wait first for the facts before leaping onto the conditioned response, but it is hardly surprising.

A more recent piece with statements from Russian officials (never the sort to hesitate when it comes to heaping scorn and blame upon Chechens, whether the accusations are based on falsehood or, on occasion, truth):--

-----------

MOSCOW, Aug. 25 (Xinhuanet) -- Investigators have yet to find any evidence of terrorism links to Tuesday's crashes of two Russian passenger jets, a Federal Security Service (FSB) spokesman said Wednesday.

Spokesman Nikolai Zakharov said that operational mistake is themost likely cause of the crashes which killed all 89 passengers and crew members aboard the Tu-154 and Tu-134 planes Tuesday nightin southern Russia's Rostov region and the Tula region, about 200 km south of Moscow.

"Malfunction of aircraft systems, the use of poor quality aviation fuel, violation of fueling regulations and piloting regulations are being checked," Zakharov was cited by Interfax news agency as saying.

Another FSB spokesman Sergei Ignatchenko also confirmed the preliminary conclusion, adding that other possible causes of the crashes are under consideration, Itar-Tass reported.

--snip--

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-08/25/content_1882480.htm

-----------

[daleo]

39. The only one of these that seems remotely believable is bad fuel

I tend to think the Russians don't want to admit to terrorism in this case, if another explanation can be framed to fit the facts. Governments seem to like to keep us afraid of terrorism, but they don't like to admit it actually happens on their watch. I still have my suspicions about the New York plane that crashed supposedly because its tail fell off, about a month after the WTC event.

The theatre killings in Moscow were an example where terrorism was readily admitted, as it could hardly be denied.

Who knows, maybe the Russians shot down these planes after they were hijacked, and they don't want to admit to that (much like the U.S. government wouldn't want to admit that it shot down a civilian plane if it had to).

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. Both crashes happened suddenly

the first just disappeared from radar; the second set off the 'distress/hijack' signal; but neither sent out a radio message. How could 'bad fuel' cause two catastrophic failures in mid flight?

[daleo]

43. Well, I did say "remotely" believable

I suppose if they were both fueled at the same airport with the same batch of bad fuel and took off at nearly the same time, that could explain the fact that the crashes happened nearly simultaneously. Still, that's a stretch, and you would expect radio messages to that effect to be quite explicit about fuel. There have been some conflicting reports about the "distress/hijack" signal - maybe this has now been confirmed by the Russian authorities.

I remember an Air Canada pilot who ran out of fuel (the ground crew used the wrong imperial/metric gauage) some years back and glided his plane down safely. A friend of mine who is a long haul trucker once got bad fuel, that contaminated his engine and put his truck out of commission for a few days. So, things can happen with fuel.

But personally, I lean much more to the sabotage or hijacking explanation.

[Sufi Marmot]

40. Can you post a link to the Russian wire report?

Thanks! -SM

[Aidoneus]

44. Yeah, here it is..

http://www.vor.ru/news/index.phtml?act=9630
To my eyes and from the context it looked like distress, and Babelfish translates it as "one of them transmitted signal SOS"; from the English language version of VOR:

A Moscow-based federal lab is examining the contents of flight recorders from two Russian airliners which crashed on almost simultaneous domestic flights from Moscow on Tuesday night. One incident killed all 43 people on board on their way to Volgograd on the Lower Volga and the other, all 46 on their way to Sochi on the coast of the Black Sea. The Sochi-bound airliner was reported to have exploded in their after putting out a distress signal. The Federal Security Service says it has no evidence of a terror attack and believes criminal negligence was the cause.

http://www.vor.ru/news/index_eng.phtml#28

The general phrase--'distress'--seems now to be the term used in reports (as in this search, for example), rather than the specific phrase 'hijack' to describe the signal. I'm having a hell of a time sorting through the statement by ChRI Rep. Umar Khanbiyev over at the Russian-language site of Kavkaz Center (not up at the English yet), but the general tone is a very strong denial. It would seem that the usual sloppy early reporting caused a lot of guns to be jumped. :shrug:

[Sufi Marmot]

46. Thanks

If I can get the Russian fonts to show up on my computer I will look into the exact wording used.

-SM

[Zerex71]

45. Keep this in mind before everyone jumps to the "terruh" conclusion...

Trained pilots are supposed to squawk emergency codes, and anyone in that amount of duress might squawk the wrong code -- or just as likely emit the wrong distress signal. In that quick instant of panic, anything like that's bound to happen. So just because a plane sends out a hijack alert does not mean it was actually hijacked.

Which brings up a point that's been stewing for me for the past few years -- every time there's an aviation accident now, all the sheeple assume it was terrorist-related, and the media monoliths do the same. Their first impulse is to print "Officials: Terror not likely". Umm, whatever happened to the occasional metal fatigue or pilot error? Why does everything have to couched in the language of fear?

Mike