Hackers Take Aim at GOP

[Nambe]

Wired News

Online protests targeting GOP websites could turn out to be more than symbolic during this month's Republican National Convention, possibly blocking a critical communications tool for the party. ..

"We want to bombard (the Republican sites) with so much traffic that nobody can get in," said CrimethInc, a member of the so-called Black Hat Hackers Bloc. It's one of several groups planning to distribute software tools to reload Republican sites over and over again. These FloodNet programs are similar to hackers' distributed denial-of-service attacks, which overwhelm a server with thousands and thousands of simultaneous requests for information.

But some activists are condemning the planned attacks, saying they violate the principles of free speech that protesters rely on for their demonstrations.

"If you feel that you must shut up someone through intimidation or false accusations or any other method -- you are not relying on the superiority of the truth," The Pull, co- founder of the online political action group Hacktivismo, wrote in an e-mail. "People can not condemn censorship and then embrace it." ..

The Black Hat Hackers Bloc is hoping to cause a whole lot more trouble when the Republicans start to gather in New York. The groups will be targeting not only GOP computers, but "e-mail, faxes and phones, too," CrimethInc said, as well as unspecified "financial disruption." ..

Ride Don’t Drive * * It’s Global Cool

[Beetwasher]

1. I Don't Necessarily Approve Of This Tactic, But

I do think it would be cool if someone hacked into the electronic sign in front of Madison Square Garden and re-programmed it to say shit like "Stop Politicizing 9/11! NYC Should be Repub Freee!"

[homegrownLeaf]

47. NYC Should be Republican Free?

Nobody in their right mind should ever hope for one party rule. That would destroy all hope for democracy and likely turn into a shooting war.

[denverbill]

2. This stinks. This isn't activism. It's illegal and unethical.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Retaliatory attacks, anyone?

As ideas go, this one sucks the biggest one yet,in this young week.

[w13rd0]

7. Retaliatory attacks?

Here's a news flash, they've been using DDOS and such tactics to shut down dissent for a while. Plus there's that whole PATRIOTACT/Carnivore thing where they can flip a switch and essentially shut down all cross-bigpipe traffic by slowing it to a crawl.

no further comment

[denverbill]

14. Hey, some asswipe Republican got caught a couple years ago.

He had some telemarketing firm deluge Democratic phone lines so they couldn't call to offer people rides to the polls. IIRC, he's doing some jail time.

I hope these dumbasses get caught too. This is stupid, undemocratic, and illegal. If we can't win without cheating, then we should accept defeat. What the hell? Why not go all the way and start stuffing ballot boxes and voting multiple times?

[w13rd0]

15. I would hope it wouldn't come to that...

...but I'm not sure how willing I am to gamble on the "ethical nuance" of the GOP. We know what's happened for the past 12-24 years. They cheat, they cheapen the dialogue, they work overtime to keep the electorate ill-informed. We can keep relying upon the uphill struggle of pushing the boulder up the hill, hoping people "wake up", or...

I'll say this much, with the way things have been moving, one could be tempted to say that the GOP is pushing this nation toward a covert civil war, and they have been for years. Just listen to them. On TV, they even say things like, "If it weren't for the 'black vote', Bush would have won in a landslide." Or how about Uncle Keyes and his desire to see the decision on Senators taken out of the hands of the people. Keep cheapening the dialogue until no one pays attention, then just do whatever you want in the plain open.

And why would we use the same hyperbole that they do. We're not talking about the equivalent of stuffing ballot boxes and voting multiple times. That's the same nonsense "this extreme is the logical effect of this action/cause" that led Santorum to equate homosexual unions with dog sex and sex with box turtles.

[denverbill]

17. You'll get no argument from me on Republican ethics.

God knows they have none where getting power is concerned. Nothing is too devious or illegal, from Watergate to Iran-Contra to the Florida recount. And God forbig they ever have an honest, open debate on meaningful issues.

But if you had told me one year ago that Kerry would be even or leading in this race, I would've said you were nuts (even given that I was a Dean supporter at the time:)). I think Democrats and liberals are finally coming out from under their protective shells and starting to actually fight back. THAT is what has given Kerry his support.

I want to win the war of ideas, not see who can run the most insidious, devious campaign in history, because we know who will win that one.

[primavera]

30. I sure hope you're right

I so very much want to believe that truth, ethics, and the moral high ground can still win electoral victories. But I don't know, there's a part of me that worries that, if only one side of a contest agrees to be bound by rules while the other side does not accept any such constraints, it's going to make for a very lopsided contest.

[homegrownLeaf]

48. I have heard that very same line too

What do you honestly think the result would have been without the African American votes for Gore? Did't Gore get like 92% of the AA segment?

[hlthe2b]

26. BAD idea... I don't condone any interference with electronic communication

Very very bad idea, which can come back to bite any of us, dependent on computer systems.

[GHOSTDANCER]

38. Kinda like the Repukes ease dropping in on Dems computers

for the last couple of years???

[akitamata]

43. Illegal, yes

but unethical? I disagree. After nearly 4 years of constant lies being spewed by the mainstream media all in order to support the illegitimate boy-king, anything that stops the process is an ethical act. Liars and propagandists take advantage of the freedom to speak, hackers are playing the ball that the rightwing spin-machine has lobbed into their court. Denial of service? Shit, I thought that was THE republican social agenda for the poor. Hack 'em to pieces I say, and now to look for the proper software;p...akita

[gatlingforme]

46. I agree. This is a blatant attempt to curb free speech.

[benburch]

4. This is just so wrong.

Any of you out there who are thinking of helping with this, please don't!

We have the GOP on the run. We are already going to win this thing fair and square. There is NO need for this sort of tactic any more than there is the need for rioting.

[Kinkistyle]

5. I don't support denial-of-service and hacking attacks.

But it just goes to show that the Internet is still very much a "Wild West" type law-less environment, and the sharp-shooters and quick-draw artists very much lie on the rebellious end of the spectrum.

[wildeyed]

6. wrong answer

I hate what the repugs are saying, but will defend to the death their right to say it and all of that. Seriously, this is cheating. I know that the repugs routinely cheat, but that is one of the reasons I am a dem, 'cause I care about fairness. I want to win, but I want to do it fair and square.

[w13rd0]

13. Would it be anything like...

...staging a riot in a facility being used for a vote recount?

Or bum rushing news shows to present the pro-war and the more pro-war sides of the issue and shutting out all other perspectives as a "zany focus group".

Those involved in this are well aware of its illegality and the risks. If they choose to engage in this sort of activity, well, the willingness itself, given the positions of many of them, on electronic privacy and the integrity of the internet, is a statement...

[frylock]

27. excellent response..

while I don't condone this act, I'm certainly not going to condemn it. It's dog eat cat people. While y'all might want to win fair and square, the other side doesn't. So we can all play nice nice, and wring our hands for another 4 years and talk about how we all got effed over AGAIN, or we can stoop to their level, and even out the playing field. And no, I am not going to participate in this.

[wildeyed]

33. Maybe this is why people say there is

no difference between dem and repugs and get real cynical about politics.

Seriously, I am working my ass off to beat bushco on Nov 2 because I believe we have better ideas and better values. I am working to defeat the "politics of anything goes" and I am not doing it so I can BECOME the same as them. Nice-nice my ass, we are talking about hypocrisy here. They can do it and they are lying scum freepers, but we do it and it reasonable. Please.

[fob]

16. I want to do it fair and square <--- Does that mean if all 48,000 DUers

logged onto the official b*/c website during the convention and "blocked" their message through "e-grass roots" it would be okay? Cause that seems like a fair and square way to react to their "message".

[Bake]

37. Some of us just might be interested in HEARING their ideas ...

Surely the Pukes want to communicate their ideas to EVERYONE, right? And that would surely include all 48,000 DUers. And surely their IDEAS are so overwhelmingly logical and powerful and their truth self-evident that they couldn't possibly object to as many people as possible being exposed to those ideas. Right? Right?

Therefore, I think EVERYONE who is interested in a genuine debate of ideas should log onto as many Repuke sites as possible, as often as possible during their convention. But you all do what you want, of course -- I'm not advocating that anyone do anything that might actually disrupt anything.

Bake

[Q3JR4]

8. ...

Censorship in any form is wrong (unless some valid national security concerns exist). That being said, the Repubs can get around this in so many ways that it shouldn't even be an issue. Yes, they'll have to put up time and energy, but you can't expect one political party to control all of the fringe groups that are associated with it.

[The Stranger]

20. What if it is "fair and balanced" censorship?

With millions of dollars behind it being beamed into every television in the country?

[napi21]

9. I don't like it either! I'm constantly fighting spam & viruses, and

I disagree with all "hacking". Fight the opponents with everything "legal" that you've got, but stay out of this hacking arena. We'd all be really pissed if someone would have dont this to the Dem siteseither during the convention, or any other time.

There's so many topics the Dems can fight on, none should resort to this junk.

[A_Possum]

10. Kerry's campaign should warn in strongest possible terms...

that they consider any sort of attack like this to be an attack on everyone, including themselves. These are outlaws whose actions will be used against us. Do Not Do It.

[Blue_Tires]

11. 1337-h4xor0z?

lol

[amber dog democrat]

12. Not smart.

This is not justifiable, ethical or legal.
Its also a federal crime.
These folks are on their own - but they need to stop it from happening.
This can be used against us too.

[msmcghee]

19. The problem is . .

. . that it probably will be. Just as it has in the past.

That's the problem with adopting the position that your side is right - therefore whatever you do to make sure your side wins is OK.

Once you take the first step down that road, the other side has to adopt a similar view or lose. Which is what the left has been, and still is, so reluctant to do.

That's what Bartcop rages about every day - the Dems inability to take off the gloves.

It's like a fight on the playground. You gotta do everything you can to avoid it. But once that line is crossed, you better not pull any punches.

Punches shouldn't be part of a democratic process. But once they start flying, you better make them count - or get used to being a permanently marginalized, abused and despised minority.

[amber dog democrat]

21. still for me, The Ends Don't Justify

the means. And i love Bartcop. I just think things need to be done ethically and legally.

I can't sanction the use of a denial of service attack. Not here, Not now.
possibly not ever.

[Eloriel]

24. I disagree

That's the problem with adopting the position that your side is right - therefore whatever you do to make sure your side wins is OK.



Doing anything to win is NOT a function of the position that your side is right. It's a function of "winning is the ONLY thing that matters," which is itself a function of those who value power (and its exercise) over anything and everything else.

That's what Bartcop rages about every day - the Dems inability to take off the gloves.

I don't go to Bartcop, got turned off by that site after only 1 visit and don't intend to go back. So I have to take your word on his/their "rages."

However, there is still a difference between fighting and fighting dirty. If my side doesn't fight, that's bad (and I've been unceasingly angry with them for NOT fighting and not fighting back as powerfully and consistently as they could for years now), but I do NOT want to be a member of any party that fights dirty.

If Bartcop is advocating "taking the gloves off" as fighting dirty, it just confirms my original assessment of what I didn't like about the site. If Bartcop wants to fight dirty, let him join the party of the dirty "winning is the only thing" fighters. That's where he really belongs. There's enough fascism going on already in this country -- we surely don't need to adopt their tactics ourselves.

We've got the Truth on our side. NOTHING is more powerful than the Truth -- it's just a matter of getting the Truth out there (unleashed).

[msmcghee]

32. Actually, I agree with you both.

(Eloriel and Yellow Dog Democrat)

But it's a bitch. It's like people voting for Nader who believe strongly that in a democratic system they should be able to vote for the person who most closely represents their values.

Yeah, they are right - but because of the way the system actually works they work against their values by doing it.

I hate the idea of Dems using dirty tricks. And I would never do that myself. OTOH - I can understand when someone sees how the last four years, the denial of our rights as citizens and voters, is largely the result of repuke dirty tricks in Florida.

I can understand when they want to fight fire with fire. But I hate that that's what we've come to in our democracy.

When our nation is committing war crimes in our name - and when the RW is pulling every dirty trick in the book - do we let the war crimes go on for another four years so that we can tell ourselves we only fight fair?

I'm not saying I know the answer to that. I don't even like the question.

Also, Eloriel - I do believe that most people on the right including Bush* and most of his advisors believe that God is on their side and therefore whatever they do to win is OK in the end.

I believe everyone holds beliefs that feel good to them. We are all programmed to be "good" people. People will easily convince themselves that what they want is what is right. Even criminals convince themselves their victims deserve what they get. That is probably the greatest of all human weaknesses.

[sofa king]

39. That energy could be used to expose, rather than exploit.

If the black hatters simply directed their efforts toward identifying and exposing those same tactics instead of employing them, they might realize a far more effective goal--putting criminal election stealers behind bars, rather than risking the same outcome themselves.

While I firmly believe that corruption pervades both political parties, I also believe that the Republicans are the ones who have dared to systematically employ criminal practices in order to consolidate political power. Those glorified script kiddies could be the key to Republican downfall. Instead they are the sort of friends you wind up with when you think you know your enemy.

[Walt Starr]

18. Anybody else who agrees with me on this one?

This is a COINTELPRO activity by the Repugnants in order to generate sympathy support.

[amber dog democrat]

22. don't know.

even if so, what then. I won't sink to their level. That does not mean I don't despise them.

[annabanana]

25. sounds more than possible...

It's the ol' provocateur gambit...online.

[bobbyboucher]

28. I always consider this type of news pre-emptive.

Just like the things they were saying about the Dems "reinventing" themselves at their convention. You see, if they scream "REINVENTION" ENOUGH TIMES, then when they reinvent themselves as moderates at their convention, which they surely will, claiming they are doing so just doesn't stick.

Pre-emptive, pre-meditated, message massage.

[alittlelark]

31. That was my first thought when I read it.

n/t

[Noodleboy13]

23. Seems to be a headline grapping tactic more than anything.

I haven't heard of BHHB, but I have read about CrimethInc before, I forget which group he was part of a few years ago. I can see them disrupting major GOP sites, that would be fairly easy, but disrupting intrapersonal communication devices used by RNC delegates is a whole different kettle of fish.
Ultimately, I think this sort of disruptive hacktivism is counter-productive because it is stifling in nature. For example, 5 years ago a hacker group (cDc i think) opened up one of the gateway servers in china. As a result, for a day or so, some people in China were able to get non-restricted, non-censored access to the internet. That is cool,liberating type of hack. Shutting down gwbush.com is silly in comparision. If this group really wanted to be helpful, they could use their skills to crack a DOD or WH server and get us some classified dirt to use on getting these bush bastards out of office.


Ice CREAM!!!!!!
Noodleboy

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sendero]

34. Catch-22

Anyone smart to carry out an effective campaign of this sort would also be smart enough to keep his mouth shut.

These are stupid wannabees.

[Tight_rope]

35. WoW...The GOP that loves to play tricks gets tricked....no sympathy here!

[ibegurpard]

36. Hacking is not only enraging, it's counter-productive.

You do nothing to convince anyone of your point of view and succeed only in pissing people off.

[Cookie wookie]

40. When does the time come from true nonviolent protest?

message removed

[MRDU]

41. Take The High Road In A Low Valley.

And the valley is low!

[kodi]

42. if they can't defend their own websites, how can they defend america?

.

[Swamp Rat]

44. Some of the Black Hat Hackers Bloc may be GOP infiltrators trying

to make the rest of the anti-Bush majority look bad. This smells fishy to me, though I do realize that some folks may be feeling desperate to excise the cancer from our White House.

Peaceful and legal action is the only choice if we want to win in November.

[BlueCollar]

45. I doubt any freepers would have opposed

hackers going after the Democratic Party websites...

Frankly, at this point I don't give a shit what happens the Republican party, their websites, or their supporters...

[homegrownLeaf]

49. I guess you have no family or friends that vote republican

Casting concern for the well being of someone to the wind because of the way they vote is beyond the limits of human compassion. I pity you.

[FlaGranny]

50. I hate to say it, but EVERYTHING

the republicans do seems to be "beyond the limits of human compassion." I'm to the point of: if a republican (including the president) says it, it must either be a lie, or someone somewhere is going to be hurt by it, probably many someones.

[Dems Will Win]

51. You should care. We are taking our country back because 2004 is the year

OF THE DEMOCRAT!

We need to restore civility to the political scene. Where have I heard that before??

YOU WOULDN'T WANT THE OTHER SIDE PULLING A DENIAL OF SERVICE ON OUR OWN DEAR DU, WOULD YOU?

Many of us here would get the screaming DTs within about an hour and a half, wouldn't we??