South may not back Bush -- support for Iraq war slides

[LizW]

Birmingham (Alabama) Post Herald:

http://www.postherald.com/me081403.shtml

(scroll down to about the middle of the page)

WASHINGTON — Southern support for Operation Iraqi Freedom is eroding, according to a new poll.

Forty-two percent of Southerners now question the administration's decision to commit troops, according to a poll by the Scripps Howard News Service and Ohio University. The poll found a broad drop in Southerners' commitment to U.S. involvement in Iraq since early May, when President Bush declared an end to major military operations there.

At the time, less than one-third of Southerners were uncertain about the war. But as the postwar occupation drags on and the promised weapons of mass destruction fail to appear, doubts are increasing.

"Back when it's an easy fight with little or no resistance, people get kind of wound up in the cheering and flag-waving," said David Gespass, a lawyer and anti-war advocate with the Birmingham Peace Project. "Now that troops have been there for a year, we're worrying about when they'll get home."

More...

[bamademo]

1. This is good news

I work at an army base in Huntsville, Al and the military here are not happy with Shrub and Rummy. I have a picture of Clark on my bulletin board and have gotten positve reponses to it.

[goforit]

56. Your news is outstanding news!

I salute those whom recognize a tyrranny when they see one!

[gratuitous]

2. Strategy 2004

Even a group perceived to be as dumb as Southerners gets their dander up when a bunch of their people get killed for no good reason. Bush is going to need every penny of campaign funds he's raised. It doesn't take a whole lot to put a state in play once they've gotten a good look at the kill-happy bastard currently squatting in the White House.

Democrats shouldn't rule any state or region out of play, and they should vigorously support candidates all over the country. Since Democrats don't have the sheer money power of the Robber Baron Republicans, that will mean getting volunteers out, staffing phone banks and knocking on doors. Get out the vote -- we certainly outnumber those greedheads even if we can't outspend them!

[diplomats]

4. "Democrats shouldn't rule any state or region out of play"

I couldn't agree more.

[Iris]

6. I wonder if more Southern boys (and girls) who join the military

than in other parts of the country.

[mac56]

8. I think they do, in Georgia at least.

I've lived down here in GA for almost two years, and I can honestly say I don't know anyone who doesn't "have someone in the service". Lots of military bases in this state, which are a great boost to the surrounding communities.

edit typo

[SharonAnn]

21. And in Tennessee, lots of military from Tennessee

eom

[HawkerHurricane]

15. I couldn't say, but it sure seems like it sometimes!

I'm sure there are more Texans than anything else, and Southern accents appear much more often than any others.

[jumptheshadow]

34. From the South and the West

The Times had a very interesting article about military demographics, and yes, a very significant percentage of the military is made up of men and women from the South and the West. They are mainly from the working class and have higher reading scores than their contemporaries. Easterners, the rich and the very poor don't account for many enlistments (and interestingly enough, the percentage of vets in Congress is plummeting).

The article is in the paid archives of the Times. You can probably access it by entering the terms "military" and "demographics" in the search function.

[KoKo]

7. "A group perceived to be as dumb as Southerners?" Do you have a link for

your comment. That seems quite harsh....and is insulting to those of us who are Southern. There are dumb people everywhere, not just in the South.........sheesh..........:-(

[Iris]

9. I'm from the South as well, but thought the key word was "perceived"

which acknowledges that this is what people think of Southerners even if it is not true of all Southerners.

[goforit]

58. Yes there are alot of crafty bright and good southeners?

I'm from the Northeast

I know a few sotherners my self.

Some just have a different way of going around the tree(bush).

I have been everywhere + overseas, and I have learned to
never underestimate people.(even handicapped)

The only exception to this is the folks holding up the WH!

LOL!!!

[gratuitous]

11. The key word is indeed "perceived"

I don't believe I need a "link" to state my opinion, do I? Or am I badly misinformed that a lot of people perceive Southerners to be dumb?

The point I was trying to make (and clearly made badly) was that there are any number of Democratic "strategists" -- even some here at DU -- who think that the party should just write off the South, and the "Sagebrush Rebellion" western states, and large chunks of the Midwest simply because the citizens there are perceived to be in the GOP's hip pocket. It ain't necessarily so, and the fact that a lot of Southerners are losing friends and family members to a poorly-articulated and possibly bogus "threat" from Iraq might make them amenable to listening to Democratic candidates who can present an alternative.

But the Democrats surely won't win if we don't field candidates or present a credible alternate vision. I've seen posts about how "invincible" Tom DeLay supposedly is because his district is more Republican than Bohemia Grove. Well, former Speaker of the House Tom Foley looked pretty tough, too. Until the Republicans ran a mealy-mouthed puppet, depressed the opposition base, and turned their own people out in 1994.

[duid12]

22. If I move from Mass to Georgia, how much does my IQ drop?

>>I don't believe I need a "link" to state my opinion, do I?

No you don't need a link to backup your faulty perception that people are dumb based on where they live....are people dumb based on their sex and race too? Which states are the smartest? I'd like to move their so it makes me smarter...

>>Or am I badly misinformed that a lot of people perceive Southerners to be dumb?

Maybe its a common misconception because people keep repeating it?

[Abigale Applewhite]

62. Intelligence in the South

Many working class boys and girls in the south took the Democra's help in getting their education, climbed the ladder, decided they were paying too much in taxes and also thought they were wealthy enough to join the republican party...One day they will learn if you want to live like a republican,you had better vote for a democrat.

Many in the south vote republican because of the selling job that has been going one with the republican party on the subject of religion and morals....When their children get hungry and they loose their homes, they will be democrats again, sort of like after the three republican..Harding ,Coolidge and Hoover...Those three made democrats that wouldn't vote republican again untill three generations had died off

[polpilot]

77. good post.

.

[Maddy McCall]

80. And this is sheerly a SOUTHERN phenomenon?

Doesn't happen in the north, where everyone is wealthy and can afford Yale and Harvard without having to take pell grants or student loans, eh? And, of course, there are no nouveau riche, educated Republicans in the north who possibly accepted financial aid to get their doctorates, eh?

Yeah, it's just us southerners who ride the system, become a burden to other regions, and then turn coat and become republicans....Uh huh.

Fucking stereotypical bullshit is getting OLD OLD OLD.

[liberalpress]

86. Living in Tennessee...

I can asuure you, those who vote republican do so because they believe the republican Party will keep African-Americans opressed.

[SayitAintSo]

74. No shit ... like on this thread ....

Sick of the South bashing ....

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishnfla]

27. Maybe you should

If you cant understand the distinction he was trying to make, then you fit the stereotype perfectly.

[alfredo]

35. oppossum is too greasy for my tastes

[chesley]

36. Do not apppreciate

the bigoted remark aabout southerners

[Catherine Vincent]

38. Some southerners are indeed dumb....take a look at your president.

eom

[Heddi]

40. uh, Bush is from Conneticut

hardly an area that can be considered "Southern" (Unless you're talking about South of Canada...or south of the north pole...)

[goforit]

60. And so is Lieberman!....LOL!!!....Two bozos from CT.

The only thing is, with all due respect to the well educated and bright southerners, it is the southerners of lesser intelligence that
chose to follow two bozos from CT blindly and religiously.

[mike6640]

61. I have lived in

Hawaii, Georgia, and California. Believe me, there are small minded people everywhere. Georgia and the south certainly do not have the monopoly on "RedNeck" attitudes.

[LiberalFighter]

75. Too many in Indiana

nt

[goforit]

57. They are out there!

As soon as there is a running cand., I am sure you'll be able to find them breaking down the door!!!

[saigon68]

71. CURRENTLY SQUATTING IN THE WHITE HOUSE

Sitting on the stool no doubt.

[Maddy McCall]

79. "dumb as Southerners"? What a SHITTY, condescending thing to say

Anti-Southern elitists on this board continue to amaze me. As if the only states to be pro-Bush or pro-War are southern ones? As if there are no liberals or peace advocates in southern states??

[kskiska]

3. It's not just the war

Here in the Carolinas, people are pissed that the textile jobs are all going overseas and the industry is just about dead. Bush* has refused to meet with governors of textile states and is doing nothing to help. They've just issued a sort of ultimatum threatening to withdraw textile workers' support if nothing is done.

[Abigale Applewhite]

63. Right to work law

The first thing people from North Carolina should do is get rid of the right to work law, or should I say the right to stay poor law.

[KoKo]

5. Thanks for posting this. The break down of the poll is really interesting

also. It verifies ethnically the groups most opposed to the war, that I noticed when I stood with the 'Honk for Peace" groups at "Anti-Invasion" protests here in NC. The breakdown of those honking most were African-Americans, Hispanics and Asians.. Most white folks didn't honk. And those who yelled curses were always caucasian in appearance.

Yet, most of those protesting were white, in the places where I was part of a protest. Others may have had a different experience. I think most ethnic groups were afraid to be seen standing in protests, but honking for peace, was a way they could give their support.

[Frances]

10. Thanks for the reports of DUers from Alabama and the Carolinas

I was born in the south and my siblings still live there. My gut tells me that Southerners would not go for Kerry in spite of his military background because he looks too Boston (a city a love, by the way). However, I think Dean may have a chance. The reason is that I think he could be perceived as being from a rural state and a man with a plan for an economy that would help them. Am I deluding myself?

[wryter2000]

16. I love Dean, but

He's an extremely wealthy New Yorker. I don't think Bush can use that much (as an extremely wealthy kid from a family from Maine whose father went and carpet bagged in Texas). However, Dean isn't any kind of down home rural guy.

I think he must have a Southerner as a running mate. As a Yankee myself, I cringe when people put down the South. (The post above didn't, though, as others pointed out.) We can't afford to write off any part of the country. And I do believe the good people of Texas have pretty good BS detectors. I think with an intelligent Southerner on the slate, Dean could take that state.

[styersc]

28. Kery's doing great in SC.

We have a strong veterans contingent that are fed up with Bush and Kerry has made in roads with the states Dem establishment. During the Sanders/Graham senatorial fight Kerry sent staffers to SC to work on the campaign (smart move) and Kerry has been successfully courting the well organized African-American activists in the state.

[Eloriel]

33. Nope, you're not deluding yourself

You wouldn't BELIEVE the reception Dean got in Oklahoma earlier this week, his very first trip there. http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/001034.html

Many of his positions are quite rural -- and South -- friendly. I think he's got a great chance in some southern states.

Eloriel

[pansypoo53219]

12. oh,

i dreams of the dems takin texass.

[MGKrebs]

13. My guess is that Edwards has a built in advantage

down here, just because he's a homeboy. But if he doesn't start getting some people together, he's going to squander that advantage.

I've never really paid as close attention to a campaign this early as I am this year, so I don't know if Dean is starting organizing earlier than candidates have historically, or if he's just been able to get it going faster (because of the internet), but I see very little activity by any other candidates here in Georgia at this time. Lieberman's got a fundraiser coming up, but that's about it.

I think Dean also could be an attractive candidate for normally conservative Southerners. He's pretty straightforward in what he says, he is somewhat conservative in some ways (balanced budget, gun laws). The civil unions thing will hurt him, perhaps enough to prevent him from actually winning any Southern states. I'm not sure how him being a doctor will play out.

Graham should be able to run strong here too, but if I recall correctly, he doesn't have any significant money.

[MidwestTransplant]

14. The strongest candidate in the South would surely be Clark

Oh and I am not bias...Pay no attention to the Avatar ;)

[MGKrebs]

18. If Clark were a candidate,

I would likely agree. But the thing about being a candidate is that you've got to take a position on so many things. Non-candidates get to just take voluntary potshots and then retreat, so we shall see.

[SharonAnn]

23. He's going to be in Knoxville on Sept. 13 with the candidates

at our Truman Day dinner.

Think he might be a candidate by then?

[underpants]

17. This really doesn't surprise me from what I hear in Va.

Granted there is still a lot of true believers around here (or at least they would never say other wise) but I can tell you the war is not going over well especially with the middle of the roaders of BOTH parties. People don't like be lied to and they do remember.

Mark Warner literally delivered the blue print of how a Dem can win this state and the Dems had better follow it.

[Atlant]

19. "Bush does the lyin', the South does the dyin'"

If you'll permit me to rip off Paul Verhoeven
(who probably ripped-off someone else), may I
suggest the following as a campaign slogan:

"Bush does the lyin',
the South does the dyin'"

This might be quite effective.

Atlant

[Frances]

30. I think your slogan is true

My husband is a Korean War veteran, and he told me 15 years ago that the military uses Southerners for cannon fodder. I was truly offended when he made that remark, but, unfortunately, I think he is right.

[mjb4]

20. please...will they count the votes?

that is the question...these mf'ers have stooped to stealing elections and laughing at us scramble in the aftermath...

[phatkatt]

24. What's with this line:

"less than one-third of Southerners were uncertain about the war"

Well, that wasn't me. I was CERTAIN that it was a horrible misstake and as unjust an action as this country ever contemplated.

I guess they meant less than one-third were AGAINST the war. Liberal media, I reckon.

[grasswire]

26. maybe a southerner could...

.....mount a primary challenge against George?

Please?

[JackDragna]

29. Utter bilge.

There is no way any Dem is carrying any Southern state. I live in the South and people here would sooner elect a bucket of warm spit than a Dem. If the Dems win the election, it'll be because we make inroads in the Rust Belt and west..I wish it were different, but I think any state east of Texas and south of Virginia is dead to us until the racist boomers there die off.

[Frances]

31. Which state do you live in?

Do you see any differences between one southern state and another?

[phatkatt]

37. There are differences; my pathetic and flame-baiting attempt:

... not counting Florida (not really a southern state ;) ...

Georgia may the first state a dem might carry because of Atlanta (and
to a lesser degree, Athens).

Tennessee maybe second

Viginia, might be higher if not for the fundies

NC, AK, LA, KY somewhere in the middle of the pack, never lived in
any of these

Alabama (my state) somewhere in the middle (or lower middle)

South Carolina second to last

Mississippi dead last

[JackDragna]

42. I live in Louisiana

..and travel frequently to other Southern states. They're different, but not enough to make a difference. The combined effect of promoting a mellow racist platform along with the coddling of religious fundamentalists has been an enormous boon to the GOP here. People in LA say that a "small-government" Republican could win an election against Jesus in the South and, disturbingly, I'm starting to believe them.

[OHdem10]

45. Yet Louisana has two Democratic Senators.

I have Southern Roots and have enjoyed reading all the comments.

I loved the comment re Louianan's would vote for a small government
Republican over Jesus Christ. Some probably would but somehow each state is allotted 2 Senators and both of Louisian's are both Democrats. Conservative Democrats but nevetrtheless, Democrats.

I continue to say and believe in my heart the biggest mistake the Democratic Party is making is continuously ceding the South and now the West to the Republicans. The Republicans to their credit have
worked hard( I do not agree with their tactics) to cultivate the south. If we put some work in there we could turn it around. It is
easy for the Republicans because the Dems just acquiesce. Until we start spelling out in plain talk just what the Republican Philosophy really is and therefore when they vote Republican they
vote against their own interest--we will never win. Illustrate how the Rep. Party uses Morality as a wedge issue to entice the Religious Right while at the same time goinmg against them
on economic issues. When it is down to the Crunch the Republicans will favor business over the ordinary citizen, the upscale over the middle and lower class. This is the very essence of Republicanism
We permit them to muddy the water. Furthermore, more and more people from Northern and other states are moving south. southern
states are reciving more and more immigrants. A vibrant Democratic
Party could make inroads --it would take yearround work--not just showing up before a campaign. I think Kerry might have a chance
in the southespecially if the party organkizes some workers to get busy. I have heard some SC Party Types say --Kerry is more liberal--Iam a Jack Spratt Democrat(Conservative) but I pick Kerry because I think he can beat Bush. Enogh of my ranting. Just a subject afer my own heart.

[JackDragna]

46. Both of which are very conservative.

..and Landrieu has won in a squeaker. The South is done as a voting bloc: every advertising dollar spent there is a dollar wasted in national campaigns.

[avtho]

53. I don't know it would do any good to turn it around

Southern Democrats were more conservative than midwest Republicans.

[Abigale Applewhite]

65. Beg to disagree

The south has taged behind the republican party mainly because of religion...with their families hungry...they will vote democratic in numbers, remember back in FDR's time in Georgia, I bet you didn't have one family out of 1000 vote for Dewey..The South was solid untill Ike's time...Goldwater was a factor in turning Georgia,Republican, He wrote for one of the Atlanta papers. And they will be again,if the economy slides, they will be begging for Hillary.

[QuietStorm]

32. First Cubans and now Southerners

Perhaps Americans are waking up! Which means Bush&Co will have to steal the election. Or create some kind of havoc to rally America once more.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

39. I doubt that they will abandon their favorite SON!

:eyes:

[Fenris]

43. That yankee sonofabitch is no Southerner!

:D

[pearl]

52. Yes

He just plays one on tv

[AbbieLives]

59. agreed

& I love the Morrissey pic.

[RamboLiberal]

44. But just maybe they'll be pissed enough

they'll find something better to do on election day. I like that some Southern states may be back in play for the Dems.

[PaDUer]

55. true, and they're

priming up the other one in FL and then the nephew!! They're getting the whole gang of them ready..what's that tell you?!

[Stuckinthebush]

41. We have a lot of military and retired military here in Bama

They are pissed.

[tom_paine]

47. Unfortunately, ALL states with Electronic Voting

will vote for the Emperor.

For some strange reason a vast majority of those are in the South.

The Busheviks have had this planned for quite awhile.

The South, like anywhere else, does not really get a vote in National Selections anymore.

Uncle Karl's "election eve downloads" will be tallying the "votes".

[MGKrebs]

49. Well, we're working on that too.

We Southerners may be slow, but we ain't stoopid.

[DemBones DemBones]

67. And we're only slow to conserve energy in the heat -- it was a

strategy evolved back in the pre-air conditioned South.

Trivia question: Who wrote a book criticizing America titled "The Air-Conditioned Nightmare"?

[MasonJar]

48. The South and shrub

I am from Kentucky. We do have two of the most ignorant Senators ever elected to office: Mitch "no campaign reform" McConnell and former baseball star, Jim Bunning. However, almost everyone I know is quite educated and presentable. The state certainly has its share of close-minded pugs, but the right candidate could definitely take this state. Many pugs in fact are starting to notice. A friend who was pro-war is shocked, I say shocked, that Cheney's company, dear Haliburton, is getting bids. Another friend of mine who is democratic like moi said that all of her family, mother, brother, sister, etc. who were hardcore pugs are so mad about the war that they refuse to vote for GWB. The teflon may be about to come loose. We must keep the pressure on, however. Graham is a typical, good, down home Southerner; Kerry can definitely pick up the military vote; Clark can do both. Dean can be competitive also by going grass roots. Liebermann is dead here, I think. Edwards' accent should do the job in Kentucky; we gals are crazy about men with a Southern accent.

[MGKrebs]

50. ^^^ My vote for post of the week ^^^

(if only there were such a thing)

That was funny and clever, And not nasty.

Nice to meet ya' MasonJar.

:toast:

edited for a smiley

[Ramsey]

81. Hi Mom!!

:hi:

Great post! Nice to hear some optimsim! I also read that Ben Chandler is attacking Bush and Ernie Fletcher for their mismanagement of the economy!!

[inthecorneroverhere]

51. Yes, we're ticked down here

The South is losing jobs to outsourcing and cheap overseas labor. It's finally being admitted on NPR stations down here that *shrub's policies are contributing to this.

People are really starting to get mad!

We need a candidate who isn't fussy over 'political correctness' regarding trade with countries like India and China, and who is willing to stand up for American working folks, and who is willing to implement laws and regs, or at least tax penalties against the big corporations that are trying to make the U.S. into a third world country.

[PaDUer]

54. Did it take...

all this time for the people there to realize what was going on? What can we do for the people to be REALLY, REALLY, REALLY MAD and take to the streets and do whatever is needed??--know what I mean?

[DemBones DemBones]

68. Have people in Pennsylvania taken to the streets? If they have,

I haven't seen the reports.

[PaDUer]

73. I haven't seen anyone anywhere

take to the streets except in DC at the marches. The south will go along w/ * when the time comes. Look how they got away w/ the redistricting also. Where's all those immigrant votes going and why?

[stevedeshazer]

82. Really? Here ya go...

New York
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:c58ZhXADIqoC:

Boston:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:M962g1pDfHcC:graphics.boston.com/images/daily/13/dubious.jpg

Chicago:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:_hlyQIOSlqYC:

Portland:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:72BDZBDOQ9gC:geoffbugbee.com/content/images/reportage/REP1035.jpg

Seattle:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:imOTnJaMljoC:

San Francisco:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:sXyotEyGJnkC:

Los Angeles:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:9B_tcPJlooMC:news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1360000/images/_1360017_protestap300.jpg

Phoenix:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:XzLg6mErRfIC:

Denver:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:qDQq-i8xHsoC:

Detroit:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:ZqaiLkIPbEcC:

Atlanta:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1YzKvhNmSwwC:images.indymedia.org/imc/atlanta/biker-thumb.jpg

There are many, many more.

[union_maid]

64. Things change

Different things drive people at different times. The south used to be Democratic and the Democrats used to be a different party and the issues that motivated the Southern Strategy are pretty much dead. Segregation/States Rights were real issues. Neither major party is now espousing genuine support for either and there is no serious advocacy group for segregation. States rights is left to the conservatives who are currently out of favor and power in DC as the powers that be expand the role of the federal government in the most invasive ways possibe. All the rest of the things that the neocons have used to demonize the Democrats are essentially..how to put it..bullshit issues. It's all just marketing - things that they've inflated and coalitions of diverse and divergent interests that they put together have given them a lot of power, but like support for war in Iraq it's a mile wide and an inch deep. No one group that makes up the conservative base really cares about the core issues of the other groups. The free market, cheap labor conservatives don't, in their heart of hearts, give a damn about abortion or gay rights. The Christian Right is made up of people who need employment and they aren't so interested in wars of aggression. Sure, you can make war on heathens look attractive for a while, but they've got plenty of us heathens here at home to deal with. So what I guess I'm saying is that there's no real reason why the Democrats can't make inroads into the south.

[Abigale Applewhite]

66. South ripe for picking

If the economy keeps up it's downward slide the south will go democratic....

[jamesinca]

69. Bush and co. seems to think it is theirs

They are focusing on CA and NY, they say it is ripe for the picking. Notice how he has not been campaigning to much in the south. He has been in CA more than his home state, or the south for that matter.

[union_maid]

70. CA is quite a prize

No one is going to be able to fix the problems there without some pain to someone. The right's premise has seemed to be that we can fix it all by cutting services to the poorest has its limitations and they might be running up against them at last.

[Mari333]

72. Good news.

I have had 2 Veterans in MI give me the thumbs up (my numerous bumper stickers)..this county went repug and we are up to our eyeballs in guys with loud trucks and confederate flags , and poverty ...Wal Mart Superstore, etc...Michigan has its uneducated , but I still see a change in the wind about Bush ...a Dem party has formed here , and for this town THAT is amazing.......
Yes, my son went thru boot camp to be in the MI National Guard...(even tho he had a college trust, thats what he wanted to do)...
He was sent to Ft Benning, in GA, and he found out most of the guys from the south in his unit were from the south, and were planning on active full army...when they found out he was in the Guard , they called him "Nancy Girl"...in good humour of course..
sadly, some of those same friends of his are dead now thanks to the Chimp and his friends.

[Corgigal]

76. Don't count SC out yet

My little current hometown (I'm a New Yorker) was put into the top 10 places to retired in the United States. My best friends is from California and the other is from Ohio. This area is SLOWLY turning Dem and the state is becoming more progressive because it needs to keep pace with the rest of America.
Old fat white guys still vote race but they are dying out. I say within 5 years we will be in the Dem column.

[jody]

78. It's not just the war. Republican oriented multinational corporations

are exporting jobs from the South and unemployment is severe in many sections.

When a person is unemployed, they, their family, and friends have time to discuss how effective the Republican's form of capitalism is for our economy. Like other states, Alabama has a budget deficit and Republican Governor Riley says we need a $1.2 billion tax increase to stimulate the economy, fund education, and other things. At the same time, AWOL says he cut taxes in Alabama to stimulate the economy. My friend Forrest Gump says either Riley or AWOL is lying.

The following letter from today's Montgomery Advertiser suggests that AWOL should not take Alabama or other Souther states for granted.

QUOTE
"Bush's actions warrant impeachment"
President Bush lied to the people and to Congress about weapons of mass destruction and the purported "grave and imminent" threat Iraq posed to the United States.

As a Vietnam-era Navy veteran and subsequent officer in the Army Reserve, I am distressed by the ploy to use American troops as security guards for the likes of Halliburton, et al, which have obtained no-bid contracts to rebuild what we destroyed. Support the troops; bring them home.

Impeach Bush for the lies he's told, manipulating the public in order to reward his contributors. His handlers need to go with him for the lives and finances they have cost us. The project for a New American Century needs to be exposed in truth.
UNQUOTE

[schultzee]

83. I hope your right! Fundamentalists fruitcakes would back Satan

if he said he was anti-abortion, and a good Christian.

[snippy]

85. They already back the spawn of Satan.

[kayell]

84. People who think Dems can't take back the South need to look at this

at Dave Leip's Atlas http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/frametextj.html



On this map the RED states and counties voted Democratic, the BLUE states and counties voted Repuke. You will quickly see that the support for the Democratic candidate is primarily in more urban (added: or heavily minority) counties. Notice also that the depth of color equates to the depth of support. The support for repukes in the South is far less intense than in the western midwest and mountain states. Add this to rising population in the south, very high unemployment rates leading to dissatisfaction with the * administration, and a growing level of disturbance about the war and I think we have a recipe for success in the south IF the Dem candidate will concentrate on labor and economy issues. Also might be wise to run someone who doesn't look down on the little guy. That attitude, which many southerners sense from some Dems, would surely prove disastrous.

Added: note that there are deep red (dem on this map) counties even in SC, AL and MS, all noted as hopelessly repuke states. There are also quite a few light blue (weak repuke support counties). We need to concentrate on upping the number of actual voters in the dem counties, and campaigning well in the more populous light blue counties.