Expand travel to Cuba, Kerry says

[Judi Lynn]

Posted on Sun, Jun. 06, 2004


CUBA POLICY


Expand travel to Cuba, Kerry says

Sen. John Kerry, disputing President Bush's actions on Cuba, told The Herald that he would open Cuba to 'principled travel' and lift a restriction on sending money to people on the island.

BY LESLEY CLARK

[e-mail]


Denouncing President Bush's crackdown on Fidel Castro as election-year politicking that ''punishes and isolates the Cuban people,'' John Kerry told The Herald that he would encourage ''principled travel'' to the island and lift the cap on gifts to its people.

In his first detailed remarks on Cuba policy since clinching the Democratic presidential nomination, the Massachusetts senator sought to carve out a middle ground in what has been a dicey subject for him. He embraced the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba and support for dissidents, but criticized Bush's restriction of travel and cash gifts to Cubans on the island as a ``cynical and misguided ploy for a few Florida votes.''

Kerry said in the telephone interview Friday that Bush's new hard-line policy restricting travelers to a single visit every three years ``punishes and isolates the Cuban people and harms the Cuban Americans with relatives on the island while leaving Castro unharmed.''

''Selective engagement, not isolation, is the best way for the American people to send real, not just rhetorical, hope for a better future to the Cuban people,'' he said.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/nation/8848574.htm
(Free registration required)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Posted on Sun, Jun. 06, 2004

CUBA

Catering to anti-Castro group not key to votes
ANA PEREZ


There is a growing constituency ... that want the United States to engage amicably with Cuba. In its haste to undermine the Cuban government, the Bush administration may be sowing the seeds of its own demise. The administration's tougher-on-Cuba policy announced in May is already backfiring. Many Cuban Americans are opposing the latest changes governing travel and remittances to the island. Even many famous dissidents in Cuba have asked the Bush administration to reconsider.

The administration is tightening travel restrictions for U.S. citizens and limiting the number of family visits Cuban Americans can make to Cuba. As for remittances, the president's plan calls for more-closely supervising cash transfers and restricting them to direct family members who are not Communist Party officials.
(snip/...)

Unlike other immigrant waves of poor, uneducated and disenfranchised people from Latin America, most of the 200,000 Cubans who came to the United States in the early 1960s were members of Cuba's upper-class elite. These were the people who could send their children to Ivy League universities. They took regular trips to Miami and New York to catch up on the latest U.S. fashion.

Thanks to decades of preferential treatment, Cuban-American political elites get away with incredible deals like the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1996. This law gives Cubans arriving in the United States expedited and unrestricted permanent resident status, as well as access to housing, education and welfare programs. Any Cuban (regardless of whether he or she arrived in the United States legally or illegally) qualifies for government programs. No other immigrant group enjoys such a welcome.
(snip/...)

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/opinion/8852341.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On edit:


Posted on Sat, Jun. 05, 2004


Kerry says Bush's Cuba policy `punishes and isolates' Cubans

BY LESLEY CLARK

Knight Ridder Newspapers


MIAMI - (KRT) - Denouncing President Bush's crackdown on Fidel Castro as election-year politicking that "punishes and isolates the Cuban people," John Kerry told The Miami Herald that he would encourage "principled travel" to the island and lift the cap on gifts to its people.

In his first detailed remarks on Cuba policy since clinching the Democratic presidential nomination, the Massachusetts senator sought to carve out a middle ground in what has been a dicey subject for him. He embraced the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba and support for dissidents, but criticized Bush's restriction of travel and cash gifts to Cubans on the island as a "cynical and misguided ploy for a few Florida votes."

Kerry said in the telephone interview Friday that Bush's new hard-line policy restricting travelers to a single visit every three years "punishes and isolates the Cuban people and harms the Cuban Americans with relatives on the island while leaving Castro unharmed."

"Selective engagement, not isolation, is the best way for the American people to send real, not just rhetorical, hope for a better future to the Cuban people," he said.
(snip/...)

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/election2004/8848996.htm?ERIGHTS=-1596686135541700752philly:KRD_RM=7nwosnnutnrupurrwnnnnnnnnn
(Free registration required)

[Judi Lynn]

1. U.S. Doctors Offer Expertise in Cuba

Posted on Sat, Jun. 05, 2004


U.S. Doctors Offer Expertise in Cuba

VANESSA ARRINGTON
Associated Press


HAVANA - It's been four years since a car knocked Cuban firefighter Rinaldo Villalon off his bicycle and threw his hip out of whack.
Afterward, he quit work because the pain was too debilitating and had to depend upon his wife to help him shower and sit on a toilet. After much physical therapy and laser treatments, his doctor concluded surgery was the only option.

The 37-year-old was all smiles Friday after bypassing a long waiting list for patients needing prosthesis implants to receive a top-of-the-line hip replacement by American doctors working in Havana as part of Operation Walk.

"I am so happy!" Villalon said, accompanied by his beaming wife as he recovered days after the seven-hour surgery. "I can walk like a normal person again!"
(snip)

Cuban doctors are well-trained, but suffer a shortage of resources.
"There's no lack of know-how here; it's a lack of materials," said Dr. Lawrence D. Dorr, the Los Angeles-based founder of Operation Walk. "They just don't have the implants."
(snip/...)

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/8845653.htm?1c
(Free registration required)

[Mika]

2. Kerry wants to keep failed policy that hurts Americans and Cubans

He embraced the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba and support for dissidents

:puke:
___

From the Miami Herald
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

He said Friday, though, that he would lift only the ban on Cuba travel that is not ''pure tourism,''

Its still a ban.


Kerry first says this,

Kerry said he would also lift the restriction on remittances to allow gifts to ''households and humanitarian institutions.'' Bush has restricted gifts to only ''immediate family members,'' but Kerry said the money can be a ''powerful tool'' to help Cubans on the island start small businesses ``and thereby gain a measure of autonomy.''

Then he says this...

`I think you want to begin a process that engages on a principled, measurable goal rather than just going to the Hemingway bar somewhere and spending some money.''

Does this make any sense? I thought that he wants to encourage small businesses.. like the hemmingway bar somewhere.

:wtf:


A turd by another name is still a turd.


Kerry policy on Cuba:

Cuba will remain under US sanctions.

We are still travel banned unless our travel is deemed worthy by US gov jackboots.


:puke :puke:

[Judi Lynn]

3. That's the pits, isn't it? The bone he's tossing to the hardliners?

It maintains the lies which should be retired.

A lot of Americans don't even know that we finance the careers of Cuban "dissidents." They are unaware that these same dissidents travel to third countries and meet with members of the Miami hardline "exile" community."

A lot of Americans are unaware there are different political parties there, and that a Miami Cuban "exile," Eloy Gutierrez-Menoy, a Bay of Pigs vet, has returned to Cuba to start his own political movement.

There's SO MUCH Americans aren't allowed to know to maintain the illusion which benefits the Cuban "exile" extremists, and their corrupted American politicians, like Dan Burton, and the previous Jesse Helms, and Robert Toricelli, and Bob Smith, etc., etc.

What a pity.

In the meantime, the Americans who can still connect with Cuba are working hard on maintaining the ties they have and creating new ones. New sister cities are being created to serve as outreach, person to person programs with Cuban towns, and American farmers and business men are still working hard at developing good trade relations, however limited they are at the moment.

Also, our Congress critters, and Senators are likewise engaged, (except, apparently for John Kerry, momentarily) on getting the veto-proof amendments needed to remove BOTH the embargo and the travel ban.

[Just Me]

18. It may not be the 180 turn we want, but it is one big step,...

,...in the right direction. Change, real change, takes times and lags far behind the visionaries.

We must embrace every step closer to equality and unity and fully reject every step away.

[Mika]

19. Its not a "big step"

Its a step back to the failed policy of 2000 - late Clinton era Cuba sanctions, laws written up by the CANF/Otto Reich and crew.


Gee.... wonder why Clinton did that.....


CANF founder and Clinton fundraiser Jorge Mas Canosa & Bill Clinton



Makes me nervous as to what kind of devil's deal Kerry is signing on to.

[Just Me]

20. Okay, Mika.

I guess, these days, I just view any step away from the down-hill slide for humanity,...as a BIG step.

I can accept the pain and passion that backs your anxiety since I am quite familiar with it myself.

[Mika]

24. Thanks

Thanks for understanding my frustration. I have many friends in Cuba and they're hurt by the continuation of failed US embargo politics. The Cuban people have done NO ONE any harm (as a matter of fact they've done plenty of good the world over w/their medicines, doctors and teachers) and its disappointing to see them get so little solidarity by the Dem party.



Kerry policy on Cuba:

Keep the US embargo

Continue to limit American travel
:puke:

[Just Me]

33. I know the Cuban people have done no harm,...

:cry:

But, take heart at the fact that, there are now seeds of hope in the US Congress that are taking a historical stand for Cuba and Venezuala and Haiti. They are a sign of a growing opposition against corporatism and towards human dignity.

The road towards healthy change is a long and difficult one,...but, belief IN change is the ammunition which carries us through these difficult times.

[sandnsea]

4. "selective engagement"

Which means for every step we take, we require Castro to take a step towards opening the country to the outside. Do you think that if the embargo and travel were lifted, Castro would suddenly open the airwaves and let the Cubans vote for their local leaders and let dissidents speak freely?

[Mika]

5. Hello? Cuba is open to the "outside"

Every country in the world has fully normal relations with Cuba, except the US.

Cuba hosts millions of guests every year, except Americans.



"Castro would suddenly open the airwaves and let the Cubans vote for their local leaders and let dissidents speak freely?"

You haven't a clue what is going on in Cuba NOW.


__


Here are some of the major parties in Cuba. The union parties hold the majority of seats in the Assembly.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html

* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

Plenty of info on this long thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6300&forum=DCForumID70


http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

--

The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books

[sandnsea]

7. "end the Castro dictatorship"

Read it and then get back to me about what you think you know about Cuba.

All about the ULC

"There was no doubt of what had to be done in the short term: contribute to the end of the Castro dictatorship."

http://www.cubaliberal.org/archivo2002-old/ulc-02.htm

[Mika]

12. Yet another "Cuban" party in "exile"? lol

http://www.cubaliberal.org/archivo2002-old/ulc-02.htm

The coalition, furthermore, was created not only to overthrow Castro in the political arena, but also to contribute in the guidance of the transition to liberty. When the change occurs, there will be the democratic influences of dozens of governments and hundreds of allied political parties spilling all over the Island, given that almost all of the nations of the free world are governed by parties linked to one of these political inclinations.

--

The Cuban Liberal Union is a political party founded in Madrid in 1989 by a group of Cuban exiles with writer Carlos Alberto Montaner as President. He continues as leader, with Juan Suárez Rivas as Vice-president. The CLU has headquarters in Miami, Caracas and San Juan.

Sounds just like _Bush* policy (and has the same players).

[sandnsea]

15. It's YOUR example

It was in YOUR list of parties in Cuba to prove there's democracy there. I guess you should have checked into the parties to see what they were actually about.

[Mika]

17. Not the same party

The domestic Unión Liberal de Cubana isn't the same as Carlos Alberto Montaner's "party" in "exile" on foreign soils.

[sandnsea]

22. Oswaldo Paya

Fine, we'll use another one of YOUR examples.

I hope this message is published in Cuba and that these questions are answered openly:

- Why do the Cubans have to request permission to enter and to leave their own country, and many times the permission is not granted?
- Why if we all are the same, there is an enriched governing class while there is a poor majority that cannot even say that they are poor?
- Why does the privileged class live in residences in luxurious neighborhoods, called legally frozen areas and Cubans are persecuted for trying to build a shack or a room?
- Why do the police request identification, humiliating the blacks and the poor in the tourist areas?
- Why is there a humiliating apartheid for the Cuban nationals, who do not have access to many beaches and tourists facilities?
- Why did they tried to eliminate the name of God from the society and the culture and imposed the atheism to a nation with religious roots?
- Why the murderers that sank the tug boat 13 of March the 13 of July 1994, where they sadistically drowned 42 people, among them 22 children, are treated as heroes by the authorities?
- Why they deceived the Cubans speaking against capitalism, if many of the big communist leaders have become the new and only capitalists while they keep on telling us "socialism or death", when all that we Cubans want is freedom and life."

When denying the citizens their civil rights, the government of my Country is denying the Cuban people the right to self-determination.

http://canf.org/2004/&in/desde%20cuba/2004-abr-01%20MESSAGE%20FROM%20OSWALDO%20PAYA%20SARDINAS%20TO%20THE%20UN%20COMMISSION%20OF%20HUMAN%20RIGHTS.htm

[Judi Lynn]

25. You demand answers to a piece of propaganda provided by the CANF

which has been sponsoring terrorist attacks on Cuba over the decades?

Cuban "exile" Luis Posada Carriles told the N.Y. Times reporters interviewing him that he had been finance by the C.A.N.F., had been paid by them during his years as a bomber/murderer.

CANF has no credibility.

You should weigh the wisdom of throwing their entire list of twisted statements out all at once. No one's going to take the time to write a complete answer to each one, which would involve a LOT of time.

You'll have to leave it to people to read for themselves.

By the way, most people don't know what the 13th of March is, and the "exiles" got a big bang running with the story which was related by one Cuban "exile" who claimed to have interviewed one of the survivors. That's where it stands. The story itself is just as preposterous as the stupid claim made that dolphins protected Elián Gonzales, and that the Virgin Mary was seen in Lázaro Gonzalez's bathroom mirror.

On edit:

Forgot to post this link:

A Cuban exile who has waged a campaign of bombings and assassination attempts aimed at toppling Fidel Castro says that his efforts were supported financially for more than a decade by the Cuban-American leaders of one of America's most influential lobbying groups.

The exile, Luis Posada Carriles, said he organized a wave of bombings in Cuba last year at hotels, restaurants and discotheques, killing an Italian tourist and alarming the Cuban Government. Mr. Posada was schooled in demolition and guerrilla warfare by the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1960's.

In a series of tape-recorded interviews at a walled Caribbean compound, Mr. Posada said the hotel bombings and other operations had been supported by leaders of the Cuban-American National Foundation. Its founder and head, Jorge Mas Canosa, who died last year, was embraced at the White House by Presidents Reagan, Bush and Clinton.
(snip/...)

http://blog.zmag.org/rocinante/archives/000237.html

[sandnsea]

39. It's a statement from Oswaldo Paya

Everybody is just a tool against Castro? Even those considered for the Nobel Peace Prize? :eyes:

[AP]

41. Doesn't Kissinger HAVE a Nobel Peace Price?

[sandnsea]

42. Let me get this straight

The fact that he got a statement out of Cuba is PROOF that Cuba is free. But the fact that he called for freedom in Cuba in that statement makes him an American tool. Is that it?

I just don't understand why people have to be so black/white about this stuff. Just because Cuba isn't as bad as the U.S. makes it out to be, doesn't mean Castro is running a democracy with freedom to dissent. And it doesn't mean we can't use diplomatic means to open trade and travel as leverage to get a more open society for Cubans. It seems like the logical way to go to me.

[AP]

44. The US doesn't want to open travel and trade with Cuba. The US wants to...

...own private industry in Cuba.

In fact, we don't opent trade with Cuba because we don't want that economy to work and we're afraid it would at least do what it claims to want to do (distribute wealth relatively evenly with nobody living in poverty).

[sandnsea]

45. THIS thread

Is about John Kerry. He WOULD open trade and travel, he has only said it makes sense to get something in return at each step along the way. "selective engagement, not isolation".

Why in the world would you support a one-party system that represses freedom of dissent when that's the exact same thing the left is complaining about in this country?

[Mika]

47. Make up your mind. If Cuba has one party, which party is Paya head of?

"THIS thread Is about John Kerry. He WOULD open trade and travel.."

Not according to him. He is returning to the Clinton policy that exists right now (June 30th is the date that the new _Bush* restrictions, that Kerry is lamenting, will take effect).

Kerry is trying to reap rewards for staying the same old failed course, while some Dems feign that its some kind of big step.





"Why in the world would you support a one-party system that represses freedom of dissent when that's the exact same thing the left is complaining about in this country?"



You seem to be saying that either a)- there's one party in Cuba, b)- Cuba is not a one party state as evidenced by your posting of Oswaldo Paya's party platform, c)- all political parties in Cuba are the same party. Which is it?

[sandnsea]

49. Read more

Yes he would and he's said so. Provided moves were made in Cuba towards a freer society as well.

You can kid yourself into thinking all is well in Cuba if you want to, but that statement is evidence it's not. "That Cubans can choose their deputies. (Now, there are 609 elected deputies out of 609 candidates. What kind of elections?)" You call this a multi-party system?

You cannot hold up a party as an example of freedom and then ignore everything the person representing the party has to say.

Cuba is not free.

[AP]

51. I wasn't talking about Clinton and I wasn't talking about Kerry.

I'm talking about Republicans and Floridians, and the policy that results because ultimately they always seem to get their way.

[Mika]

26. That's a bold political statement from Paya....

.. and its good to see he's free to make such grandiloquent statements as the head of a domestic political party, the Cuban Christian Democratic Party, and that Cuba's political spectrum is wide and varied.

[sandnsea]

40. Are you serious???

He has international notoriety, that's the only reason he isn't in jail.

This message was sent from Cuba by Oswaldo Payá Sardiñas

"What we want is to defend the right of the Cubans to choose and to design a system with rights."

"In the Cuban Penal Code there are supposed crimes of "Contempt ", enemy Propaganda and law of dangerousness. Any citizen, arbitrarily, can be sentenced to years of prison according to these laws, which do not even have an accurate definition for those crimes.

In the trials against the 75 Prisoners, they were accused of acts against the national independence and the territorial integrity "¿What crimes they committed? Not a bomb, not a bullet, not an act of espionage, not a physical aggression, not a conspiracy. They are prisoners for defending the human rights. And also for sending information to the Commission of human rights of the United Nations."

If it's so free, why do they need to ask for:

1. The freedom of speech and association.
2. The liberation of the peaceful political prisoners.
3. The right of the Cubans to have their own businesses and of the workers to be hired freely.
4. That Cubans can choose their deputies. (Now, there
are 609 elected deputies out of 609 candidates. What
kind of elections?)
5. The convocation to free elections.

[Mika]

43. Paya's platform= standard political platform anywhere

It has elements that appeal to his party's underwriters (NED, Cubanet, CANF, etc).

1. The freedom of speech and association.

Kinda wish the Dem party would stand up for our same rights here too. (Y'know - Patriot Act and 1st Amendment zones, gestapo crowd control tactics against citizens exercising their "free speech", and all.) Its good to see that Paya's free speech demands can be freely spoken & made part of his party's platform.

2. The liberation of the peaceful political prisoners.

Its a good point, and a fair demand. The US government should do so also, except I don't see many prominent politicians pushing for it. Hey, its the US running a worldwide political prison kamp system. Good to see that Cuba has politicians with some balls.

3. The right of the Cubans to have their own businesses and of the workers to be hired freely.

Cuba does have limited privatization, and it's expansion is constantly being modified to best suit Cuba's limited resources, after all.. they are under severe sanctions and the Cuban people have overwhelmingly supported socialism for decades and continue to do so. The transition will come on their terms, and Paya is part of the democratic process that will be part of it.

4. That Cubans can choose their deputies. (Now, there are 609 elected deputies out of 609 candidates. What kind of elections?)

This is pure propaganda for foreign consumption (gotta earn their N.E.D. money). Cubans do choose their deputies.

http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

The process of ratification of the elected candidates from the 609 assembly district runoff elections and final elections is part of the Cuban democratic process. The winner of each district seat has to undergo a ratification election that requires at least 50% +1 of the electorate to ratify the winner of the election for the seat in the assembly. Last election in 2003 all 609 winners of their respective seats were ratified.

5. The convocation to free elections.


Cuba has free elections, with the candidates they select (no smoky back room deals).



The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.



Because we Americans are travel banned by own own dictatorial government and can't see this in person readily, you can read these if you're really interested..


You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books

[sandnsea]

46. This is unbelievable

Paya sneaks out a statement about the lack of freedom in Cuba and then you turn around and use that statement to pretend there's freedom in Cuba. That is so bizarre, it's absolutely impossible to have a debate. The quotes I gave you, people being put in prison for speaking, is absolute PROOF that there is NO free speech in Cuba. Or freedom to elect somebody from whatever party you want either.

It's great for you to harp about the Dem Party and the lack of participation for third parties here in the US. Too bad Cuba doesn't get that right. They don't even get freedom to access the internet to bitch. I just don't get how supposed freedom loving lefties can continuously support freedom suppressing regimes around the world. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Mika]

48. Paya sneaks out a statement???? roflmao He world toured w/his Nobel.

What planet are you from?

You need to do some basic research into Oswaldo Paya if you are going to hold him up as an example. The man hasn't had to "sneak" any message out of Cuba. Good lord man, he is an internationally recognized politician (except in the "free press" laden USA) who has won a Nobel for his writing.




"The quotes I gave you, people being put in prison for speaking, is absolute PROOF that there is NO free speech in Cuba."


So, I guess some group with a political agenda should tour US prisons and publish supposed claims made in interviews of prisoners as THE absolute unbiased measure of free speech here too then. Right?

By any measure, the US has many more interviewees then.

[sandnsea]

50. He's YOUR example

How do you ignore what he has to say, when he says there's no freedom, then turn around and use him as an example of freedom??? It defies logic.

He may have enough notoriety to not be arrested, as I stated. But most people who "send messages" to the UN Human Rights Commission, as he did, end up in prison. He didn't get where he's at today without facing the kind of real tyranny that U.S. citizens can't even imagine. Not even now.

"In 1988, Payá, an opposition leader, founded the Christian Liberation Movement (Movimiento Cristiano Liberación, "MCL"), which would serve as a basis to enact the ground-breaking Varela Project. By 1990, State Security had detained, interrogated and threatened Payá with prison if he continued his defiance."

Come on, take your head out of the sand. Two wrongs do not make a right and things are not right in Cuba.

[Mika]

52. Not my example. That's your fabrication

How do you continue with your line that there is no political freedom nor freedom of speech in Cuba while ignoring the fact that Mr Paya is the head of one of the many legitimate outspoken political party leaders, with a wide range of political platforms, in Cuba.




One shouldn't go around telling the neighbors to clean, mow, edge, weed and trim up their yard while one's own yard is piled high with refuse and garbage.

[sandnsea]

56. Paya's platform is there's NO FREEDOM

But never mind that, you know better.

[Mika]

72. Paya says it freely, openly & as part of a legitimate political platform

But never mind that, you know better.

Its easy. Cuba = bad, USA = good

[Sean Reynolds]

30. You're quoting CANF?

That's like quoting the Aryan Nations on true, equal rights for all.

[Judi Lynn]

34. Isn't THAT the truth! They have their own version of reality

It's the official version in Miami, or you're in trouble with them!

In Miami, free speech is selective

Warren Richey, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

MIAMI - The heated custody battle over Elian Gonzalez is shining a bright light on the Cuban-American community in Little Havana.

Television images beamed around the world show a community passionate about the welfare of the six-year-old boy - a tight-knit neighborhood in almost universal agreement that the child should stay with his Miami relatives to enjoy freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution.


But those same television cameras have opened a window to a darker side of Little Havana. Critics say those who disagree with the hard-line opinions of Cuban-exile leaders routinely face intimidation, threats of violence, or outright censorship.


Two weeks ago, police arrested a seventh-grade social studies teacher after, he says, he spat on the ground and told the spokesman for the boy's Miami relatives that "Elian should go home."
(snip/...)

http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2000/04/21/p1s3.htm

[Judi Lynn]

23. I've heard about Montaner for years, but only from "exiles"

who cruise message boards looking for the opportunity to commune with their fellow citizens.

I heard about him first at CNN's old board, from a Miami right-wing extremist nutjob who threw himself at that board daily until he flipped out. He believed Montaner was God's voice on earth.

I found out that the "exile" was a complete slave to Montaner. He kept bringing up two officer brothers in the Cuban military who were discovered to be dealing drugs on a grand scale, which was explicitly illegal. Apparently Montaner was a friend of one of the brothers who was executed, and Montaner wouldn't shut up about it until he exhausted himself.

The "exile" posting threw absolute tantrums about the execution of this guy, and kept dragging Montaner's name out to demonstrate the
horror of Cuban violence after the revolution, while conveniently overlooking the world's awareness of the former Batista death squads, torture, political murders, even dismemberment, bodies thrown out into the streets, and assorted fiendishness perpetrated upon the Cuban people which brought on the Cuban revolution.

Looking into Montaner, I learned he's a phenomenal gasbag, a pompous, right-wing literary version of Rush Limbaugh. Totally full of hot air, and self-importance.

The Miami Herald kicked their old, faithful editorial writer, Max J. Castro, and hired Montaner, who only writes in Spanish. That's truly a questionable decision for an American newspaper. He is described as a "rightist idealogue," and a "xenophobe."

He appears to believe his opinion is desperately needed on all Latin American matters, as simply allowing the people of each country to create their own society and government won't be good enough for a right-winger like Montaner. He's got to get some heavy duty bloviating done, 24/7, or nothing will ever be right again.



I just don't find anything worth noting about right-wingers. I've known right-wing people all my life, don't care to know anything more about them. They are desperately wrong. They deteriorate the quality of life.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Description of the government structure........

December 22, 2003
Understanding Cuba
Revolution and Misinformation

Cuba: A revolution in motion
by Isaac Saney
Fernwood Books 2003

(snip)...Saney points to the last three elections--in 1993, 1998, and 2003--which were open to observation by foreign and domestic journalists. These three national elections ended up being plebiscites for the revolution. Over 90 per cent of the Cuban electorate--who cast their vote in secret and are not required to vote--turned out in each election, and each time over 90 per cent votedall 601 national candidates "up", in a gesture of solidarity with the government and revolutionary constitution (explanation of the process follows). This, while US-funded radio stations in Miami (broadcasting illegally into Cuba) were exhorting Cubans round the clock to spoil their ballots or boycott the election. After each election, prominent dissidents conceded that the Cuban revolution had a renewed mandate from the people of Cuba.
(snip)

Saney writes: "The 1991 congress was preceded by discussions involving 3.5 million Cubans... more than a million people in 89,000 meetings directly raised more than 500 issues and concerns," ranging from the structure of the party to foreign policy.

The Cuban electorate is divided into 14,946 circumscriptions, each consisting of a few hundred people. In street meetings that typically see a high degree of participation, each circumscription elects a representative. These delegates, along with representatives of a variety of "mass organizations"--civil groups, student associations, and unions--form commissions which spend over a year selecting from thousands of candidates to ensure that all of Cuban society is represented in the provincial and national assemblies. The Communist party is prohibited from participating in the selection process.

These recommendations are then submitted to municipal assemblies for approval. Each Cuban citizen is presented with a list of 601 candidates which they can vote either for or against. To be a representative in the national assembly, each candidate--including Fidel Castro--must receive at least 50 per cent of the vote in her constituency.

Critics must at least concede, argues Saney, that the current system is more democratic than any other in Cuba's history. Fidel Castro has said that this movement towards the "parliamentarization of society" sidesteps the divisiveness of the "dominant model" of western governance, creating "a democracy that really unites people and gives viability to what is most important and essential, which is public participation in fundamental issues." Saney, it seems, agrees. He ends the chapter with an observation that must read as truly bizarre to Canadians and Americans: "those who have the most money do not have political power, as they have no support among the masses and, thus, do not offer up candidates in the elections."
(snip/...)

http://dominionpaper.ca/features/2003/12/22/understand.html

[Mika]

37. What do ya think the reaction to Al Queda calls for a boycott of elections

What do ya think the reaction to Al Queda calls for a boycott of elections in the US would be?

Its a great 'get out and vote in Cuba' strategery Radio/TV Marti had. :-)

[Judi Lynn]

38. Isn't that odd?

It's stupid, it's rude, it's damned odd.

Your comparison is apt! Absolutely.

Here's just another day at Radio Marti, some dazzling chit-chat from popular Miami cretins whom Director Salvador Lew imagines will captivate people on the island.




Salvador Lew

It really is heartwarming seeing them blow this money on such important stuff as having hack actors or other "celebrities" gibber about themselves, and their news people tell Cubans to boycott their elections or "spoil" their ballots, and we get to pay for it! Wowie!

[Judi Lynn]

6. A little reading would help a lot.

The airwaves are open. Cubans get radio and tv from the States via ordinary ways.

The PROPAGANDA blasted at Cuba 24/7 by the right-wing "exile" stations funded by U.S. taxpayers, and programmed and managed by Cuban "exile" extremists ARE blocked, as anything similar being blasted at the U.S. would be blocked, as well.

The Cuban dissidents speak, write, and operate freely. Are you NOT aware that when U.S. government officials, as in Congressmen and Senators, even Jimmy Carter, etc., etc. go to Cuba, they usually make a point of going to visit them? Even Oliver Stone made a point of getting them in a film he made there recently.

[sandnsea]

8. Yes, please do read

See post #7.

[Judi Lynn]

10. Mika, don't you think these guys could do a better job

if they simply WENT to Cuba, for crissakes, and got to the bottom of things, like some of our high-ranking retired military officers have done, rather than standing in Miami and yammering about what they should do about Cuba?

Unbelievable.

They have the ability to travel there, just like all other politicians, talk to the dissidents, just as the Congressmen and women do, and get a little more light on the situation. Democrats like McGovern from Washington, Max Baucus from Montana, etc., etc. even go and have multi-hour discussions with Fidel Castro, and anyone else they want to meet.

[Mika]

28. It would be so easy to dispel so many false myths: End the sanctions

Lifting the US travel sanctions on Americans to allow open and unencumbered travel would do so much to dispel the many false myths about Cuba as it is right now, but instead, Kerry wants to limit American's travel to Cuba to allow only "political travel".

If Kerry is to be taken seriously when he says,

``Instead, I will work to craft a policy toward Cuba that our allies can join and support.'' ``Instead, I will work to craft a policy toward Cuba that our allies can join and support.''

.. then he should call for an end of all forms of the sanctions on Cuba, as the UN has overwhelmingly voted each and every year, instead of supporting sanctions.

---

Kerry policy on Cuba (so far): http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Cuba will remain under US sanctions

We are still travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots

[Judi Lynn]

31. Thanks for making that point.

To tell the truth, it really hadn't quite come through for me that "political travel" was precisely what he was talking about.

UNBELIEVABLE.

Well, it would surely help if he availed himself of a little "political travel" like so many of our OTHER Representatives and Senators, and got busy and went to Cuba and took a look around, himself, wouldn't it?

Thanks for your latest comments. It's really hard to get the information in front of people when they have been so conditioned by propaganda. It's like trying to awaken people from a deep sleep, isn't it?

They need to ask themselves why Cuban "exiles" want to come and go from Cuba if Cuba is the hell hole we have been told it is. Some Cubans even move back.

[peacetalksforall]

9. What Kerry has said is not progressive.

His words only address travel and remittance - two recent reversals. The entire embargo issue is 40+ years old and should have been disbanded with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

It is a complete mystery to me that Democrats would support an embargo. If anyone could explain it to me, I would welcome it.

So, in the meantime, I will show my disgust with Kerry about Cuba, Haiti, and Venequela. Who the heck is advising him on the Western Hemisphere.

ABB, but with a sad and unenthusiastic heart.

[sandnsea]

11. Let's just think that through

If we trade with a country, and then ten years later the leader is discovered to have jailed and slaughtered its citizens, we're capitalist pigs who don't care about anything but money. If we don't trade with a country, then we're capitalist pigs who want to make the world do everything our way. If we had been trading with Castro the last 40 years, I guarantee, you would be saying we were propping up a puppet dictator.

[Mika]

14. Castro Castro Castro Castro Castro Castro Castro Castro Castro Castro

Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that Castro did this Castro did that

:boring:


Doesn't leave much room to give credit where credit is due..... the Cuban people.

[Kinkistyle]

55. Says who?

If you are truly a psychic or a master of human psycho-sociology and divine their innermost thoughts then I defer to you. But I doubt it, and if thats the case you are constructing straw-men.

Your guarantees hold no water. There is no argument that we embargo a country just because their leadership is considered authoritarian or else we wouldn't be trading with China would we?

[Imperialism Inc.]

63. "Who the heck is advising him on the Western Hemisphere?"

A: Rand Beers

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Rand_Beers

Rand Beers resigned his National Security Council (NSC) position as special assistant to President George Walker Bush for combatting terrorism five days before the start of the Gulf War.<1>

Beers is described as a "lifelong bureaucrat, unassuming and tight-lipped until now. He is an unlikely insurgent. He served on the NSC under Presidents Ronald Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, Bill Clinton and the current Bush."

However, on June 16, 2003, "Eight weeks after leaving the Bush White House, he volunteered as national security adviser for Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), a Democratic candidate for president, in a campaign to oust his former boss."<2>

"When asked about Beers, Sean McCormack, an NSC spokesman, said, 'At the time he submitted his resignation, he said he had decided to leave government. We thanked him for his three decades of government service.' McCormack declined to comment further."<3>

"However it was viewed inside the administration, onlookers saw it as a rare Washington event. 'I can't think of a single example in the last 30 years of a person who has done something so extreme,' said Paul C. Light, a scholar with the Brookings Institution. 'He's not just declaring that he's a Democrat. He's declaring that he's a Kerry Democrat, and the way he wants to make a difference in the world is to get his former boss out of office.'"<4>

--more--

====
There are many other sources for this, but this was the first that came up in a google. Contains a link to the specific , ummm "corrections" he made to his testimony.

Edit: maybe this is why he quit, or maybe he is just a POS.

http://www.anncol.com/september_eng/1209_TOP_US_OFFICIAL_LIED_ABOUT_AL_QAIDA.htm
TOP US OFFICIAL LIED ABOUT AL QAIDA-FARC LINK

US Assistant Secretary of State Rand Beers has admitted that he did not speak the truth when he last November declared under oath that Colombian guerrillas had received training in terrorist camps in Afghanistan

12.09.2002 (By Maria Engqvist, ANNCOL Stockholm) Top State Department official Rand Beers, who heads the US Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement, has rescinded a statement made under oath before a federal court that claimed that guerrillas from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) had trained at Al Qaida camps in Afghanistan.

Beers committed perjury in an attempt to support a motion to dismiss a civil suit against US mercenary company DynCorp, the largest State Department contractor. DynCorp's mercenaries performs a host of military and support functions for the US and Colombian forces who are fighting left-wing insurgents in Colombia's civil war.

According to the UPI news agency, DynCorp and the State Department are trying to convince US District Judge Richard Roberts to dismiss a class-action lawsuit filed last September by an estimated 10,000 Ecuadorians against DynCorp because a trial could compromise the wars on both drugs and terrorism.

--more--

[Judi Lynn]

64. This is a huge developement, isn't it?

First I've heard of this.

It's tremendous hearing a man in his position actually is walking away to help Kerry get _Bush.

From your second link:

One point in the original proffer made the case for links between FARC and al Qaida, including the presence of FARC personnel in Afghanistan as part of a close relationship between the two groups. "It is believed that FARC terrorists have received training in Al Qaida terrorist caps in Afghanistan," Beers says in the original document. "I wish to strike this sentence," the new version filed by Beers in August says.

Terry Collingsworth of the International Labor Rights Board, which is co-counsel for the plaintiffs, told UPI that the State Department "are so desperate to keep this suit away from a jury that they'll say anything to convince the judge it's related to terrorism."

Washington has previously made bizarre claims of connections between Muslim fundamentalists on one side and left-wing insurgents and popular movements in the Amazonas region on the other, to justify increasing its involvement in Colombia's civil war. On April 18th US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage announced that elements from the Al-Qaida and Hizbollah groups were operating in remote jungle regions near Ecuador's border with Peru and Colombia and that Ecuador was in desperate need of US help to combat them.

According to Armitage, who was speaking to the House Appropriations' Foreign Operations Subcommittee in an attempt to get further financing for the US campaign in Colombia, "We have got in the tri-border area a bit of a problem with al-Qaida itself and some Hizbollah elements."
(snip/...)

Fascinating!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Found a pertinent article:

January 30, 2004

Imperialists? Who Us?
Cuba High on Neo-Con Hit List
By SAUL LANDAU


Thanks to the Bush bravado, a new office pool game in Washington national security circles emerged. Organizers take bets on which country the United States will next invade. The inventors of this new boredom-cutting exercise still seek a name for their amusement: "Jeopardy" and "Survivor" are taken. How about: "Who's Next?"

In December 2003, Libyan President Muammar Gaddafi narrowed the possibilities by removing his nation from competition when he eschewed nuclear, chemical and biological weapons ambitions and invited UN inspectors to Tripoli. Office bets now range from Syria and Iran in the Middle East to North Korea in the Far East, to Cuba, ninety miles south of Key West.

These "rogue nations" share the characteristic of having refused to fall into line behind Washington's dictates. Using "rogue" to describe disobedience plays well at home. It allows the Administration to convert lies into axioms. For example, Washington labels Havana "terrorist," despite the fact that the United States has launched thousands of terrorist missions against Cuba and has no evidence of Cuba initiating any retaliatory terrorist acts.
Between Spring 1961 and Fall 1962, the CIA dispatched hundreds of agents to Cuba to assassinate, blow up and burn property and cause mayhem. Terrorism against Cuba continued sporadically for decades -- well into the 1990s -- under the guise that somehow this would help the United States restore democracy to the island.

In 1952, the US supported General Fulgencio Batista after he staged his electoral coup and removed democracy from the island's political structure. But serious national security mavens rarely ruffle their aggressive feathers with facts. By repeating cliches about US motives being noble and democratic while Presidents authorize illegal wars and overthrows of foreign governments, the Administration induces the mass media to follow the line whatever it is; at least temporarily.
(snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/landau01302004.html

[Imperialism Inc.]

67. It is certainly is pretty huge.

In both good and bad ways. Beers is noone I would want to see in a high level position in a Kerry administration. He really does support the fumigation wars, even if he was surely pissed at being forced or tricked in to perjuring himself. Other CounterPunch articles label him as a biowar zealot.

That he resigned on the day Bush gave his ultimatum to Hussein shows that the Iraq war was probably his main complaint. He said Bush was "making us less secure, not more secure," because of a pattern of neglect and homeland security budget cutting, for example in the area of port security or border security.

That he could sit through all the republican administrations he has sat through, and not resign earlier, gives a very good idea of just how whacked out the current Bush administration really is. On the other hand, Kerry's sometimes whacked out take on the western hemisphere can likely be attributed to Beers, a fellow Monsanto crony.

I have been proceeding under the idea that Kerry has simply hired him because of the defection. Also, so that he can run as an almost republican on foreign policy , since the electorate seems to prefer right wing foreign policy (have never understood that).

I am hoping he drops him after he is elected.

[diamond14]

13. GO KERRY !....the rich Cubans demand to take their land back...

land that was seized by Fidel from slave-drivers Barcadi Rum and others....

the extremely wealthy decendants of the slave-drivers in Cuba are holding up any relations with Cuba...until they can become slave-drivers again...

once again, Kerry is 100% correct....the current bush* Cuban policies are simply pandering to a very few wealthy decendents of slave-drivers, who want the torture to continue for the average impoverished Cuban....

GO KERRY...send those bushies out of OUR Capital...all of them

http://www.JohnKerry.com

[Mika]

16. amen1234, why the celebration? Kerry supports the embargo & travel limits

I don't get it?



Kerry policy on Cuba:

Cuba will remain under US sanctions.

We are still travel banned unless our travel is deemed worthy by US gov jackboots.

[Sean Reynolds]

32. He also probably supports the notion if instilling a Batista like tyrant

[paulk]

53. so... do you have anything to back up your reasoning

or is this just another of your gratuitous Kerry smears?

[Mika]

54. poster, not kerry

n/t

[Sean Reynolds]

57. Well he supports the embargo....

Which was placed after Batista left office and Castro's revolution pushed him into power.

So I think so.

[mtnester]

21. We have always wanted to visit Cuba...

thought about it when we went to Mexico, but worried about the stamp on the passport.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

70. I hear Cuba doesn't stamp American passports

so people don't get hosed when they go back to the USA. I'd make some research, though.

[Mika]

73. The Bush admin is cracking down on US travellers to Cuba

Here on DU there were several threads on the revelation the the Justice Dept had 24 agents cracking down on US toutists who had gone to Cuba, and only 4 tracking the Bin Laden family. Plus, all of the new US transportation/Big Brother tracking, you WILL be busted.



The Latin American Working Group www.lawg.org is a good resource on this.


Victims of Cuba Travel Enforcement Speak Out
http://www.lawg.org/countries/cuba/victims.htm

They traveled through Canada believing that the travel restrictions were not enforced against Americans who traveled through third countries. When they returned from Cuba, the McCarthys chose not to lie to the border patrol agents and are facing a $15,000 fine.

If you lie you face additional charges by the _Bush* regime.

[Judi Lynn]

27. Here's an analysis of an event called the "13th of March" by Miami"exiles"

written by a woman who has had extensive connection with this community. I read this several years ago, right after she wrote it.

Fidencio Ramel Prieto Ramos was director of operations at the port authority of the Ministry of Transport in Havana. He devised a daring plan to finance his retirement by exploiting his familiarity with the port to become the all-time champion coyote. The small harbour tugs usually dock overnight with crew aboard, but the 13 de marzo was dry-docked for repairs and unoccupied on July 13, 1994 when Prieto drugged unconscious (or colluded with?) the night watchman and loaded some 70 people onto the tug. (No record was made of the people who boarded.)

When the 13 de marzo got under weigh, the crews of three neighboring tugs at the dock woke up and set out in pursuit. They overtook the hijackers about six miles outside the harbor and tried to turn the stolen tug back. In the course of this effort, the 13 de marzo collided with the pursuit tugs and sank. The Cuban coast guard arrived on the scene when people were already in the water, and succeeded in picking up half of them. The rest drowned.

The Cuban authorities interviewed the survivors the following day and released all but the ringleaders. Prieto himself was among the fatalities.

The first hurdle to be jumped to characterize this as a "human rights abuse" was to cast it as a government action. Vigilante action by civilians doesn't qualify.

In pursuit of this aim, survivors' accounts began to surface that displayed a familiar brand of nuttiness. The crews of the pursuits tugs were identified by the survivors as Cuban G2 agents in disguise. They could tell because, drowning in the dark in a storm-tossed ocean, they observed symptoms of seasickness in the crews.

This may have been a bit too much to swallow even for the human rights agencies, although they published such claims in their findings. They gave the additional ground that the tugs were owned by the Ministry of Transport and therefore anything done by its employees was a government action.

(On this theory, the U.S. is guilty of major human rights violations every time a civil servant "goes postal".)

Honorable mention should go to the witnesses who reported that the tugs sailed very rapidly in circles around the people in the water, creating a whirlpool that sucked them under.

Then there are the conflicting accounts of exactly how the 13 de marzo sustained the damage that sank her. The Cubans say one of the tugs cut across her course trying to stop or turn her and was rammed by the hijackers. The survivors say the pursuit tug deliberately rammed the 13 de marzo in the bow.
(snip/...)

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ204.html

[lpricanprynces]

58. So sad.

Did you know that Cuba has a higher literacy rate than the U.S.?
So sad that such educated people would risk their life to be able to live in freedom.

What really pisses me off is that we will take out an "evil dictator" who poses no immenent threat to the U.S., yet we will not take out the evil dictator in our own backyard. Too bad Cuba doesn't have any oil.

I have mixed feelings on the U.S. sanctions against Cuba. Cuba already has tons of tourists from democratic countries, and nothing has changed. In fact, if Cuban citizens are caught socializing with tourists, they can be imprisoned for it. One more country (ours) added to the list of tourism will not change anything. We will only be making Castro richer, not the Cuban people.

[Mika]

59. Its easy - Cuba = bad, USA = good. End of story. {not}

"Did you know that Cuba has a higher literacy rate than the U.S.?"


Yes. You must know that great universal health care and an excellent education system is the hallmark of a brutal dictatorship. Castro forces Cubans to send their children to good schools. Castro forces high quality health care on their children and elderly also. There is zero homelessness in Cuba also, because Castro forces citizens to live in proper housing.

We all know that nobody on earth wants any of these things, but Castro forces it upon the Cuban people.

<end sarcasm>




"So sad that such educated people would risk their life to be able to live in freedom."


The USA offers over 20,000 LEGAL immigration visas per year to Cubans (and Bush just announced that the number would increase despite the fact that not all 20,000 were applied for in the last few years). This number is more than any other single country in the world. Its the US interests section in Cuba that does the criminal background check on the applicants.

The US's 'wet foot/ dry foot' policy (that applies to Cubans only) permits Cuban criminals and felons who arrive on US shores by illegal means to remain in the US despite having failed to qualify for a legal US immigration application.

Cubans who leave for the US without a US visa are returned to Cuba (if caught at sea - mainly in smuggler's go-fast boats @ $5,000 per head) by US repatriation law. But IF they make it to US soil, no matter who they are or what their criminal backround might be, they get to stay in the US and enjoy perks offered ONLY TO CUBAN IMMIGRANTS (via the US's Cuban Adjustment Act and a variety of other 'Cubans only' perks). Perks like instant work visa, instant green card, instant access to sec 8 taxpayer assisted housing, instant social security, instant welfare, free health care, and more.

These perks are not offered to any other immigrant group, but yet, without the perks offered to Cubans, immigrants still pour into the US from all over the Caribbean and the Latin Americas - many taking greater risks than Cubans to get here.


Get it? There is no such thing as a Cuban illegal immigrant. Plus, they get perks that no other group is offered.


___


"In fact, if Cuban citizens are caught socializing with tourists, they can be imprisoned for it."


What an utter lie.

You are making shit up.

Only a travel banned American would believe such a ridiculous thing.

[Judi Lynn]

65. Unbelievable! Where do you start?

Do any of the people you know in Cuba ever get tossed in the slammer for knowing you?

Simply beyond belief.

You're a patient person, Mika! Please accept this fine trophy, with our thanks.

[Mika]

71. Thanks, JudiLyn

That's a fine trophy you've given, thanks.
I accept in on behalf of the good people of Cuba, who's patience out-endures any I've seen.

---

Kerry policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Cuba will remain under US sanctions

We are still travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots

[Sean Reynolds]

29. But you're still going to keep the embargo on, huh Kerry?

Worthless!

If you really want to help Cuba, lift the embargo!

[goforit]

36. Way to go Kerry!!!....Knock down the Western Iron Curtain!!!!

About time!!!!

Pearle is grabbing for his alka-seltzer now!!!

[Imperialism Inc.]

60. What is Kerry's voting record on Cuba?

Are there any indications in his record he might go even further once elected?

At any rate, at least it is something . I like when he panders my segment of his base. :)

[Mika]

61. So you embrace the embargo too?

Kerry policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Cuba will remain under US sanctions

We are still travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots

[Imperialism Inc.]

62. No I don't.

That is why I asked if he might go further. Until I read the whole thread I thought he was lifting the travel ban completely.

[Judi Lynn]

66. Cuban Americans brace for new travel policy

Posted on Mon, Jun. 07, 2004


MIAMI-DADE


Cuban Americans brace for new travel policy

Cuban Americans with relatives on the island are preparing for additional restrictions on travel to Cuba, though some question how or if the rules will be enforced.

BY ELAINE DE VALLE

[e-mail]


Sonia Fandiño is in Havana with the 15-year-old son she didn't dare put on a raft 10 years ago when she fled Cuba. She has to make every moment of this trip count: The next time she sees the boy, he could be an adult.

Under proposed new restrictions announced by the White House last month, Fandiño would not be able to return to the island until 2007.

Legally, that is.

But, like many who visit family still in Cuba, she doubts the new rules can be enforced.

''I will go however I can,'' said Fandiño, a 54-year-old secretary.

``I will swim if I have to.''

She could go through a third country, such as Jamaica or the Bahamas -- a loophole used by many Cuban Americans to skirt the current once-a-year rule.

Pedro Fernández has gone through Toronto and Merida, Mexico. And that's what he will do again -- though it costs him more -- to visit relatives in Santa Clara.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/8856578.htm


WAITING: Mercedes Hidalgo of Miami awaits her flight to Cuba on Friday at Miami International Airport. Hidalgo was going to visit her niece, who lives in Sancti Spiritus, Cuba. Hidalgo is unhappy with the proposed travel rules. 'It's so unfair,' she says. MARICE COHN BAND/HERALD STAFF

[struggle4progress]

68. Trade with Cuba! Good for Business!

[ozone_man]

69. Principled travel?

What does Kerry have against pure tourism? Does he take a bold stance on anything? Another one of Kerry's nuances.

He said Friday, though, that he would lift only the ban on Cuba travel that is not ''pure tourism,'' suggesting that democracy efforts in Poland, Russia and China were aided by similar ``political travel.''

[JPZenger]

74. Marketplace: Bush Screws Up With Cuban-American Vote

The following is based upon a story on last night's Marketplace show on Public Radio:

The Bush Administration did some calculations and decided they needed to control the Cuban American vote to win in Florida. Cuban Americans are also large campaign contributors. So they decided the best way to secure that vote was to tighten the financial screws on Cuba.

So they proposed new rules that would outlaw Americans sending money to relatives in Cuba unless they were immediate family. They also proposed to prohibit Americans from visiting Cuban relatives more than one time in any 3 years.

Guess what? The Cuban Americans were furious. They treasure their relationships with uncles, aunts and cousins. They also know that many relatives would be in complete poverty without the dollars they send them. So now the Bush Administration has put the proposals on hold.

As Jeanine Garafalo said, we think of these guys as evil geniuses, but they are really just evil incompetents.

[struggle4progress]

75. kick

:kick:

[Alexander]

76. This is better than nothing.

You take what you can get, and this policy, although not perfect, is at least a step in the right direction.

I myself would like to see a lift of the travel ban and an end to the ridiculous embargo. This was a failed policy from the start. Kerry may simply be returning to the Clinton plan, but at least a Kerry administration won't be as gung-ho about crackdowns on travel to Cuba as the Bush administration. I think Kerry also realizes this is a failed policy, however true to his nature, he is taking a middle-of-the-road stance, so as not to offend certain voting blocs. But that's just my two cents.

It's either this or the Bush policy, folks, so you can take your pick.

[Mika]

77. He's offending a large voting block - the majority

.. by not just openly calling for ending all of the sanctions, as the majority of Americans prefer, and a majority of the house and senate prefer.

Why doesn't the Dems party get with the majority of their constituents?


Poll: Americans on Cuban Sanctions
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=770




Mr Kerry, Tear down the wall!

---

Kerry's stated policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Cuba will remain under US sanctions

We will still be travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots