Students suspected of drugging teacher (marijuana cookie)

[PfcHammer]

http://www.dailybulletin.com/Stories/0,1413,203~21481~2193424,00.html

Students suspected of drugging teacher
Educator's collapse leads to arrests
By LISA B. McPHERON, Staff Writer

CHINO HILLS - Two 17-year-old students face felony charges on suspicion of dosing an Ayala High School history teacher with a marijuana-laced cookie.

The teacher, Frank Palminteri, 53, collapsed during an afternoon class May 28 after eating the cookie. The teacher, who declined to comment about the incident, spent a few days in the hospital and has since been released.

"He's still recovering," said Julie Gobin, spokeswoman of Chino Valley Unified School District. "He is at least at home."

The teacher has an existing medical condition of narcolepsy, which can cause sudden sleep, so foul play was not suspected until one of the suspects began bragging about the pot cookies earlier this week, a San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department press release stated.

[Mnemosyne]

1. hogwash!

No one has EVER been known to od on straight pot, some laced crap is another story however. Remember the government spraying paraquat in the 70's? Many were poisoned and even died. This is just more propaganda. No wonder kids end up dead from hard drugs, gov lies about pot so they aren't believed about more serious things.

[Soloflecks]

2. Yeah, gotta wonder.

Well, if anything, it would merely suggest people with narcolepsy might want to exercise caution with intoxicants, and it may have had nothing to do with it. They'll probably show the class Reefer Madness or something. Not very nice to slip anyone anything without their knowledge, though.

[leesa]

7. People with narcolepsy occasionally do this on their own too

I remember working with some a while back in a research center and one guy fell asleep while walking, holding coffee.

[kimchi]

10. Wonder if the teacher drinks beer?

I'm having a hard time believing this, also. Unless "collapse" really means "fall asleep".

[progressivebydesign]

30. I'm sorry but your comment reaks of blaming the victim..

.. like asking if a rape victim was sexually active. It doesn't matter. They drugged this man.. there are laws against that.. for good reason. Marijuana could be very dangerous to people with a variety of illnesses.

[kimchi]

47. And your later response reeks of propoganda.

Later on in this thread you use the term "poisoned". I mean, technically, you could "poison" someone with aspirin, too, which has more demonstrated health risks than marijuana.

I'm not condoning what the kids did; but I doubt they thought he'd keel over, and probably didn't know he had narcolepsy. Some people act like they sprinkled strychnine on his food.

[mulethree]

40. I think smoked is a different matter

Smoked the effect is close to immediate and people will stop smoking long before they OD.

Put a high concentration in a brownie and you gobble down the whole thing long before the effects hit. No self-regulation there unless you know its in the brownie and know to wait a while for the effects before you decide you want more or not.

[bhunt70]

42. but there are no known reports of anyone ever od'ing on marijuana

in any form or under any amount of consumption. Whether it affected a narcoleptic fit or not is a different story and I don't have any information on that. Could be possible though.

edit-spelling

[Longhorn79]

199. But if he didn't expect anything

I can imagine somebody having a serious panic attack or even heart attack if they are just minding their own business and all of a sudden they feel stoned, especially if they've never had the feeling before.

[abelenkpe]

89. such a large concentration would make one yucky

brownie.

[Dr Fate]

98. No- sometimes those cookies can be VERY STRONG...

...I'm no stranger to weed- but I've had cookies that really knocked my dick in the dirt- and this was when I was smoking daily. I was at a party and EVERYONE got sick becuase they were just too strong.

If someone has no tolerance of any amount, much less high, concentrated doses, and I imagine the narcolepsy didnt help either...

Well, I believe the story.

[stickdog]

144. A brownie that strong would taste like eating a pine tree. (nt)

[discordian]

125. For some people, pot can be dangerous

I've had friends with varying types/degrees of Diabetes, they can't smoke pot because it would send their blood sugar levels into a dangerous zone. I'm not sure how it works, but they definitely couldn't smoke pot or drink alcohol. I think that even though pot is relatively harmless, we still want to send a message to these kids that it is not funny and potentially dangerous to taint someones food for a prank.

[Turley]

129. Who said anything about OD-ing?

I've seen an entire Busload of kids who were knocked out flat for five hours after using high-grade stuff in a recipe meant for brown pot (This was years ago before all of the stuff was high-grade). I do mean knocked out as in unconscious and took it us a day to get right again.

Considering they had no idea if the victim had any sort of medical condition which could have compounded the problem, I see no reason why these idiots shouldn't be given a stiff sentence.

[JohnLocke]

221. He was narcoleptic; nacroleptics have unusual repsonses to pot.

[Beaker]

3. "...a few days in the hospital?"

THAT'S what i'm talkin' about, man...that had to be some ass-kickin' weed...that's it, i'm headin' to chino hills, man...

[JohnLocke]

223. He was narcoleptic (nt).

[dsc]

4. those students should see the inside of a jail cell

upclose and personal. That is assult and should be treated as such.

[leesa]

6. What crap.

[dsc]

11. I am sober for four years

If someone did that to me I would be back at square one. I would rather be hit by a student than have alcohol slipped to me. These 17 year olds should be in jail.

[shanti]

24. it wasn't alcohol

but i see your point

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

45. GIve any drunk booze and he will revert to being a drunk

and while you are on the subject of AA there is somethinga about not working other people's programs. Evidently your big book left that out. Those kids poisoned the man's food and that is despicable. Remember the outrage over our feeding those prisoners pork and booze, why is this any different at all?

[TexasMexican]

52. Nice Stereotype...

some people just need to learn moderation.

[dsc]

55. If one can learn moderation

then one isn't an alcoholic. That is what being an alcoholic means. That would be like accusing someone of promoting sterotypes for saying Christians worship Christ.

[JohnLocke]

115. How is that a sterotype?

Observant Muslims don't eat at pork or drink alcohol. How is that a sterotype? :shrug:

[TexasMexican]

51. Yes because its other people's fault...

that if you get a drop of alcohol into you, you turn into a crazed drunk.

[dsc]

54. I think even drunk I could read better than you just did

[TexasMexican]

57. In other words...

(this doesnt apply to this article but to your comment)

Lets say its legal for someone to own alcohol, I assume its legal for you to consume alcohol.

If someone gives you something with alcohol in it, it wouldnt be thier fault for your condition, it would be your fault. Your the one that has a problem, not them. Your the one who cant control your liquior consumption.

Its your responsiblity to make sure you dont consume alcohol, its not responsibility of others to make sure you dont get it.

[dsc]

59. If they give it to me without my knowledge

that would be their fault. Just like if someone served peanuts to a person with an alergy to peanuts and seriously harmed them. These 17 year olds, assuming they have the right ones, drugged this man's food and it should be treated seriously, not as some sort of cute prank.

[TexasMexican]

61. So what laws are you refrencing?

As far as I know its not illegal to serve alcohol to someone who is legally able to consume it.

Also if someone didnt know someone was allergic to peanuts and gave them a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich and the person ate it how would that be illegal?

You cant tell someone is allergic to something just by looking at them. It is the person with the allergic reaction to make sure they dont consume something that they are allergic to, not the responsibility of everyone else to know who is allergic to what.

[dsc]

63. I think you need to check a law book

If you serve something to someone and it is something other than what you claim it to be then you are indeed guilty of fraud at the least. In the case of an intoxicant you become responsible for what happens to the person. Nearly every state holds a host responsible for letting drunk people drive for example. The responsibility would increase many fold for someone who did that without the person's knowledge.

[TexasMexican]

64. I made no claims that I would conceal what the item is.

[dsc]

73. The whole thread is about

giving something to someone without their knowledge. So concealment is a part of the bargain.

[TexasMexican]

101. There is no evidence of that.

The article makes no mention of whether the teacher asked what was in the cookies or if the students lied about it.

It is possible that the students gave the cookies and the teacher ate it without ever questioning what type of cookies they were.

[dsc]

103. You are joking, right?

I mean the very first question you ask someone who gives you a cookie is "Is this a marijuana cookie?" That is claptrap.

[TexasMexican]

128. Well you are making an assumption

You assume that he asked what type of cookie it was and that the kids lied about it.

That information was not given in the article so we dont know if he asked what type it was or not.

I propose an alternate scenerio maybe they gave him the cookies and maybe he saw a chocolate chips (or whatever) on them and he made the assumption that they were harmless cookies without ever questioning it.

In that situation the teens didnt mislead him because they were never asked. Perhaps they would have lied if asked, but if they were never asked there was no lying.

The teens would still face trial for possessing marijuana (which I personally think is stupid, as marijuana was only made illegal for racist reasons. The thinking at the time was that Mexicans smoked it so if we make it illegal we can harrass and deport the Mexicans), however they would not be culpable for misleading the teacher as he would have been the one that made the assumption.

[dsc]

132. So if McDonalds serves a new sandwich

they call mystery meat and it turns out to be rat they would be fine. That is such a crock. You are nothing short of bizarre in your reasoning.

[TexasMexican]

134. No but if...

some random person comes up to me giving me what appears to be a hamburger and I eat it assuming its a hamburger, but it was really rat meat is the person who gave it me a criminal because I assumed it was something that it wasnt.

[dsc]

135. a student isn't some random person

This teacher had this student in class for over 160 days (given when in a school year this happened0 for 45 minuters each day. That is 120 hours of contact. That isn't a stranger. That isn't a random person. If a student brought me a cookie my first notion wouldn't be to ask if pot was in it.

[TexasMexican]

138. So you would eat it making an assumption on what it was?

If you asked and they lied well then you would have a case that you were mislead as to what it was.

If you dont ask at all well then you would have no case.

[dsc]

143. that is such bullshit

No one could be as dense as you are pretending to be.

[rinsd]

139. Omission isn't a lie?

Especially when related to substance you give to someone under the guise of normalcy(in this case cookies)

Girls who have been date raped via the use of roofies and GHB may have some quarrels with your ideas. I believe the law says something about it as well.

I am as big a supporter of decrim of marijuana as anyone. But knowing people with various chemical imbalances(from narcolepsy to anxiety) I consider it the height of idiocy to "dose" someone for kicks. The kids can go to jail for poisoning or whatever the law is for passing on a sunstance without knowledge.

[toopers]

81. A few years ago McDonalds was sued

They were using frying oil with animal fat in it to cook the french fries. A vegetarian group sued McDonalds, and won, because McD did not disclose this fact. The vegetarians thought they were eating all veggie, when if fact, they were not.

I am not sure if there was a law broken, but the maryjane case is certainly more dangerous than the McD's case.

[AP]

136. I think it was a Hindu group. The problem was that it was beef fat.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

153. And McDonald's falsely claimed it was all-vegetable.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. What if they are innocent? Shouldn't that be a factor?

:eyes:

[dsc]

20. If they didn't taint the food then yes

but if my innocent you mean he could have collapsed anyway, then no.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. By innocent I mean innocent of the charges brought against them in court.

Whatever those turn out to be.

You know, presumption of innocence, the right to confront their accusers, the right to a fair and speedy trial, all those pesky details.

[dsc]

23. You have a point

I should have said if they did it.

[Bandit]

25. Where have you been? this is Bush* Amerika

Those pesky details were thrown out because they were to pesky. If Bush* says you're guilty then by god you're guilty and you don't need no stinkin' lawyer or phone call or speedy trial or ????????? Long live Bush* Amerika

[dsc]

26. and I assume

you have never, not even one time, said something similar to what I have said about a famous case before the trial. Not about OJ or Kobe or Scott Peterson.

[progressivebydesign]

27. I agree... the studenst broke the law.

.. I guess because this is DU, the majority of posts will be of the standard 'drugs are good, police are bad' variety. Lacing someone's food with drugs is illegal. If you ingest enough marijuana, it can be dangerous... it could have been pcp laced marijuana.. we don't know. The "kids"s should be expelled and charged. This story should be a no-brainer.. I can't believe people would defend the students.

I guess the posters here who are defending these students would be okay if someone gave their child a drug laced cookie, or perhaps their grandparents.

[Speed8098]

69. "That is assult and should be treated as such"

This is no more of an assault than spiking the punch. In fact, it is less so. Alcohol has been known to kill, marijuana has not.

When you offer an uneducated opinion, you look uneducated.

[dsc]

112. So when our soldiers force fed alcohol and pork to Iraqi prisoners

that wasn't assult either? How about someone who gives a girl GHB and then for whatever reason chooses not to rape her? How about if I piss or spit in your food?

[Speed8098]

131. Apples & Oranges

That's what people do when they have no real arguement.

How about if I piss or spit in your food?

How about quoting facts instead of stupid remarks.

[dsc]

133. No it isn't

In both cases people took upon themselves to decide what a person should eat. In neither case is harm likely to come from the activity (though in this case some did). So again, answer my question. When our soldiers decided for those prisoners that pork and alcohol wasn't too bad, were they just playing a harmless prank?

[mare]

5. We had a similar case here...

just that it was a marihuana-laced cake and there was a whole bunch of teachers who ate from it, one of them pregnant.
The pupil was 18 and a few months from his Abitur (german entry for Universities) and since the school and teachers and police/district attorney didn't want to mess up his future they decided that he wouldn't be prosecuted. Instead he had to stand in front of the whole school and tell everybody he was sorry and they forced him to work with drug addicts for a while.

And Hi! :)

[kimchi]

8. Hi mare, welcome to DU!

:hi:

[gristy]

9. Well that sounds like a good solution for everyone

Kudos to the teachers. And welcome to DU! :hi:

[mare]

17. Thanks.

Long time reader of DU. :)

Everytime I hear about what Bush has been up to now I come here to read some postings... ;)

[Beaker]

12. that's not how we do things here in the U.S....

anytime someone commits even a minor offense, everything possible to mess up their future is tried.

[dsc]

13. this is not some minor offense

As you pointed out above we have no clue what was actually in that marijuana which those students chose to put in the teacher's food. Evidently they didn't care.

[chenGOD]

14. Or maybe the teacher fell asleep...

all by himself? He has a history of narcolepsy. Narcolepsy is a serious disease, or at least that's what Stanford would have me believe.

http://www-med.stanford.edu/school/Psychiatry/narcolepsy/

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_medical/disorders/narcolep_doc.htm

And for the record, I've eaten and smoked lots and lots of pot. I've never had it cause me to collapse suddenly.

[dsc]

15. the fact he was sick already is irrelevent

They drugged the mans food which is just evil. They took no care whatsoever to make sure it was pure marijuana. For all they know it could have contained rat poison. The act is the problem, not the fact he collapsed.

[Zhade]

157. "They took no care whatsoever to make sure it was pure marijuana"

There's nothing in this story to back up that claim.

I agree with your point that lacing someone's food is wrong because of the potential risks (even though marijuana by itself does not kill people), but you're making assumptions you can't prove. That's why a fair trial and presumed innocence are far better than trials in the media.

[sazdem]

16. ....and of course

everyone reacts the same way to weed that you do, right? The argument that "it never did that to me" is not valid. The issue here is not everyones tolerance to drugs or whether the teacher had some other medical condition. The point is that these students put a foreign substance in someones food without their knowledge. Thats wrong and they should be punished.

[mare]

19. of course they should be punished...

but imo everybody can make mistakes, especially at 17, and I don't believe in punishments that mess up teenagers life's because of one mistake they made.

[chenGOD]

22. Yeah punishment is fine...

but something appropiate...

Apologizing in front of the school, and doing some community work with drug addicts maybe (not that marijuana is addictive).


AS for "it never did it to me"...well my anecdotal evidence is stronger than yours... so nyahhh :P :hi:

[Baltimoreboy]

41. Poisoning food is a felony

If guilty, they deserve prison time and it should stay on their records for life. They were 17 not 7.

[chenGOD]

82. Except marijuana is not a poison.

Seriously. If you can find me one recorded case of someone dying from the effects of THC, I'll...eat a marijuana laced brownie.

[dsc]

83. The same can be said of DDT

yet no one in their right mind wants it in their food.

[chenGOD]

85. Except... DDT is a poison.

DDT can kill people. THC? Don't think so.

As I said in my other post, an appropiate punishment should be meted out to the students who did this (if they are guilty). An appropiate punishment does not mean screwing up their lives with a prison sentence and a permanent record.

[dsc]

86. not using the standard you laid down

DDT is a carcinogen (sp) but it doesn't kill people immediately which was your sole critera for being a poison.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chenGOD]

114. Umm how did you get that my sole criteria for being a posison was...

that it must kill people immediately?

THC is not a poison, and will not kill you even after years of use.

DDT is a poison, and can kill you. Not immediately.


Edited for atrocious grammar.

[dsc]

117. Pot is 10 times as likely to cause cancer than cigarettes

so either you standard is killing in the present or else pot is one too.

[chenGOD]

126. Not pot...

The smoke and burn off from the paper is the carcinogenic component. Eating marijuana, or using a vaporizer is a perfectly safe method of ingesting THC.

[stickdog]

146. You actually believe that?

Come on. I realize that you have a point here, but please.

[Zhade]

158. "Reefer Madness" is still strong propaganda, even to this day.

The funniest posts in this thread are the ones arguing about marijuana's "effects" and that it's "poison" when (I'm very confident in guessing) they have little or no firsthand experience compared to those of us who know the effects firsthand.

It's really quite humorous!

[gulfcoastliberal]

168. Who's your source on that, Gabe Nahas?

I'd like to see something in a peer-reviewed scientific journal that backs your insane assertion.

[Baltimoreboy]

119. Doctoring food is a felony

You could put semen in food and while it might not be poisonous, you would go to jail. Of course, you would also have the living crap beaten out of you which, if guilty, these kids deserve.

[progressivebydesign]

28. Misdemeanor? Umm.. this is hardly a minor offense.

Lacing someone's food with drugs is not a minor offense. If this happened to a member of my family, I'd insist on harsh sentences.. this is not a stupid mistake.. it's an assault. I can always count of the pro-drug DU crowd. sheesh.

[sazdem]

31. I don't know...

If it qualifies as assault. I suppose the legal eagles would have to figure that one out.Apologizing to the teacher in front of the entire school could be more effective then a worthless sentence handed out by our failing justice system.
I suppose knowing the background the kids involved would be helpful. That is if they have shown a history of mis-behavior.

[progressivebydesign]

29. Not enough punishment..

.. if this guy had no college lined up, then he would have done jail time. Isn't this what everyone here screams about when Bush was always given a free pass?

That story reminds me of the football player in high school last year. he committed a violent assualt, but was given probation instead of jail time.. because it would have ruined his chance to take advantage of a football scholarship, and ruined his life.

[al bupp]

48. True Justice

This strikes me as an example of an intelligent and compassionate response to a very bad and potentially harmful decision by a young person.

Unfortunately, I think the chances of something like this happening in this case are vanishingly small, given the prevailing attitude of zero-tolerance these days.

Welcome to DU :toast:

[Sean Reynolds]

32. I think it's funny.

[last1standing]

39. Was it funny when the military made Muslims eat pork?

I respect a lot of what you say, Sean, but I don't think you've thought this one through.

Any time we remove the rights of others we subjugate them to less than human status. This isn't a bad teen movie, it's real life. In real life a man had his rights taken away from him and that's just not funny.

[last1standing]

33. We're always talking about how our rights are being taken away...

But when, allegedly, someone is fed a substance against his volition, so many here think it's either funny or a minor offense of no importance. Where is the concern for this man's right to not be drugged? If his vote had been taken away everyone here would be screaming, but now that his right to choose his own lifestyle has been compromised, so many are giggling. What a hypocritical shame.

If these kids are found guilty, then they should be punished. It's that simple.

[Cooley Hurd]

34. I munched a brownie a few weekends ago...

...at a friend's house. 3" x 3" and let me tell you, I was messed up for hours! However, I think the teacher's narcolepsy had much more to do with his fainting spell than the cookie did...

[DoktorGreg]

35. I OD'd on pot brownies once

It was a new recipe and we steeped the butter (THC is fat soluable) like three times, instead of yellow it was deep dark green. Everyone who ate a whole brownie, gasp, fell asleep for a few hours, and felt it for about two days. I would say, if you didnt know what it was, it would have been scarry.

Im thinking something like that happened here, and an emergency medical person would be deeply concerned about not being able to keep someone awake, because they wouldnt know what was causing it.

Dosing people against their wishes seems like a deeply anti-social thing to me, especially in the context of a semi-professional environment like a school. The funny thing is, if the students gave the cookie to the teacher anonymously with a note saying what it was, the teacher probably would have enjoyed it. If not, then they gave it to an ass hole teacher, who didnt deserve to enjoy a pot cookie anyhow.

[dsc]

36. or maybe they would have given it to a teacher

who fought tooth and nail to get his sobriety back and wouldn't have wanted to give it away again.

[DoktorGreg]

38. If the teacher was working an AA program...

And was actually 'Sober' he would have just droped the thing in the garbage.

[stumblnrose]

43. You are whack, DOKKK

How does he know what is in the brownie? And your take on AA is the kind I hear from people who are in some sort of denial of their own. People in AA have all kinds of opinions on everything under the sun.
Tradition 10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

[dsc]

44. Not unless he was psychic

The whole point of the stunt was that the teacher didn't know what was in the brownies.

[abelenkpe]

92. I'm sorry

I respect your argument for not wanting to have food laced with a substance unknown to you because of your experience with addiction. But there is no way in hell that a single brownie could have enough pot in it to make one pass out that it wouldn't taste like pot. Or worse, like dirt. If one was truly innocent and didn't know what was in it they would just spit that nasty tasting thing right out. Now I agree that it is wrong to put any substance into a food or drink and serve it to someone without their knowledge. The kid should be seriously reprimanded. I cannot say what the proper punishment should be as I am not familiar with the law.
There are many examples that support your point of view of why people should have the right to know and trust that the food and drinks they are served are not laced with harmful ingredients. Why do you think so many choose to purchase organic food? Because they are worried about harmful pesticides and antibiotics. Or worse, how about the poor women who were served drinks that were spiked with a drug that made them pass out and oddly woke up the next morning in an unfamiliar man's house. (This has happened to several of my dancer friends.) So yes, there should be a punishment attached to this case IF this kid is found guilty. Spiking food is not something anyone should encourage. Of course, it is not unreasonable to expect that this kid may just have been making stuff up. Teenagers are notoriously foolish. And I think that's why so many people tend to lean towards being more lenient. There is certainly nothing wrong with being open minded.

[dsc]

94. several people who are far more knowledgable than I

have disputed this on this thread. I admit to not knowing myself just how much pot it would take to make something taste bad. But remember this guy had narcolepsy so making him pass out would presumedly have been easier. I am not saying they should get life or something, but jail time is warrented. Considering this a joke seems out of line.

[abelenkpe]

121. don't worry

I definitely don't consider this a joke. If guilty those kids truly deserve some sort of punishment.

I read some of the replies from those who claim to have more experience with this and understand that they may think they can disguise pot. I"m open to the idea that they know something I don't.

[Crunchy Frog]

58. So are you saying that

if you don't like pot, it means that you're an asshole?

The one time that I tried pot, I had a terrible reaction to it. I went into a state of panic that lasted several hours. The experience may actually have contributed to my development, shortly after, of a full blown panic disorder that lasted for several years.

If someone were to slip me a mind altering drug without my knowledge or consent, I would regard it as tantamount to being raped.

Most people don't have any problems with pot, and handle it just fine. Not everybody does, especially if they have an underlying neurological problem. That's why putting mind altering substances into your body should be your own personal choice, and doing it to someone without their consent is a profound violation.

I think if these kids are guilty, they should do some jail time at least, and I'm disgusted with people here who think this is funny. Somehow it reminds me of Rush Limbaugh's sniggering about the torture of Iraqi prisoners.

[DoktorGreg]

95. So you are saying????

You smoked some pot and it made you paranoid???

Bwhahaha, That is one of the side effects of pot. It probably wasnt the pot that gave you a nervous disorder also by the way, you probably already had that.

On another note, I drank like 6 shots of rum in an hour once, and I had a terrible reaction to it. Puked all over the place. Now whenever I smell that smell of rum, It makes me feel like I want to puke. I havent drank rum since then.

And comparing my suggestion that a pot brownie dose of a teacher is not really that big of a deal (certainly not meriting jail time) , to Limbaughs rationlization of rape murder and torture, suggest to me you have nothing rational to say on this issue.

No, a pot brownie is not like being raped, no matter the circumstances. You defame rape victims everywhere, and demonstrate your ignorance of both rape and pot.

Finally you, Stumblinrose, and Dsc remind me of the "Liberal as victim" that limbaugh is always railing against. The kind of liberal that has nearly totally destroyed the Democratic party. The kind of liberal that saddled us with losers like Kerry, Dashel and Lieberman. Only picking people because they are safe.

[Crunchy Frog]

104. You impress me very much with your compassion.

No, I did not become "paranoid" from smoking pot, I went into a full blown panic. I actually do know the difference. And if I had an underlying unknown mental disorder that was triggered by my pot usage, that only shows that it really is a more serious and dangerous substance than people give it credit for. This only confirms how truly serious a matter it is to give it to someone without their knowledge or consent.

I do hope that you are not one of those people who likes to snigger and joke about people with mental conditions.

I disagree with your contention that being given mind altering substances without your knowledge and consent is unlike being raped.

My guess is that I know a good deal more about rape victims than you do. As a male,(I presume) you are unlikely to ever be raped. As a female, I always live with the possibility of being raped. Moreover, I have a very close family member who experienced childhood sexual abuse and rape over a period of several years, so I think I do know a little bit about the subject of rape, and would never try to minimize it.

I still contend that robbing someone of control of their own body, or mind by slipping them mind altering substances is comparable in many ways to rape.

And yes, I do find your sniggering dismissal to be very reminiscent of Rush Limbaugh's take on the prisoner torture.

Finally, from your final statement, it sounds like you actually are a regular listener to Limbaugh, therefore, I shouldn't take anything that you have to say too seriously, and will not in future.:)

[DoktorGreg]

116. Im not tolerant of liars

And by your own admission, and you presumed correctly, I know far more about rape than you do.

And no, Marijuana is NOTHING like rape, even an involuntary dosage.

[dsc]

118. speaking of liars

you provided two links that purported to show teachers advocating the drugging of kids and neither one did. Is that your idea of honesty?

[Crunchy Frog]

123. How do you know so much about rape?

Done it much? And what exactly are you accusing me of lying about?

As I said before, I have never been raped, but I have a close family member who spent years of her childhood being raped on a regular basis, so I do think that I know a little bit about it. I would certainly never minimize it, and that was not my intent.

I do believe that being involuntarily dosed with mind altering substances is a major violation.

I don't know which I would find worse, having my sexual organs violated, or having my brain violated.

Anyway, I'm pretty much through with having anything to say to you.

[Zhade]

159. "I went into a full blown panic."

I'll back you up a little here, with the caveat that 1) I think marijuana is a wonderful plant and 2) I think you're wrong about your attack causing you to develop a panic disorder.

A long while ago, shortly after I smoked for the first time (maybe two weeks later or so), I did have a small panic episode. So it can happen to some people. It only happened once, never again.

I do think you were predisposed to panic attacks before your smoking attempt. I myself have clinical depression and ADHD, and found marijuana to be very helpful, not at all harmful.

[gulfcoastliberal]

171. In all seriousness,

my dad is a very well known and respected psychiatric researcher. He said the phramceutical companies are actually beginning to take a clinical interest in marijuana to treat a wide variety of psychiatric disorders. My dad did human sleep study research back in the late 60s/early 70s with hash oil and marijuana. It is the ONLY substance known to man that actually sedates you and allows full delta-cycle (stage 4) sleep. Ambien, xanax, all "sleeping pills" greatly reduce your stage 4 sleep, which is the deepest and most rejuvenating part of your sleep. For a good nights rest with plenty of delta wave sleep, smoke pot!

[Beaker]

88. My wife had an "O.D." type of experience from some fudge i made...

I did the same thing- making the green butter first, and then using that to make fudge, which turned out to be extremely potent.
I smoke daily, so it didn't have as much of an effect on me, but my wife, who hardly ever smokes, got knocked on her ass, and was really kind of freaking out about it...it was a saturday evening, so she just went to bed, and slept thru most of sunday.

[stickdog]

148. Sorry about your loss. (nt)

[Cronus Protagonist]

46. That is ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

They should have brought enough to share with the whole class. Fucking cheapskates.

Click here for "FUCK BUSH", and other fair and balanced yet stunning buttons, magnets and stickers

[chenGOD]

50. Finally...

someone who's talking some sense.

[TahitiNut]

62. (Hmmm...) I was just wondering why ....

... my students didn't do this for me when I was teaching. :cry:

[Cronus Protagonist]

66. Heck, I'd get a job as a teacher if my students did that for me :)

Click here for "FUCK BUSH", and other fair and balanced yet stunning buttons, magnets and stickers

[Pathwalker]

218. Thanks for the link, Cronus!!

Off to buy some buttons - they're wonderful! KEWL!

[TexasMexican]

49. Sounds like bullshit to me.

I think his collapse was because of his disorder not because of marijuana in the cookies.

This definately doesnt deserve a felony charge.

[wickerwoman]

53. If true, this seems like straightforward bullying to me.

And it's a pretty sad day when students feel free to bully teachers and it's written off as harmless pranks.

Here's a poor shlum with a thankless job, miserable pay and a serious medical condition. And two assholes drug his food just for the hell of it.

And in a few days he has to go back to work and face a classroom full of more sniggering assholes who know that nothing very serious is likely to happen to the kids that drugged him. It's sad.

And it's even more depressing that so many "democrats" don't see anything wrong with drugging someone against their will in an attempt to humilate them on their job.

What if he wasn't narcoleptic but the pot led him to say or do something that made him lose his job. Wow, that's fucking hilarious.

[TexasMexican]

56. Seems like someone ate something

without bothering to find out what was in it.

[dsc]

60. Do you take all your food to a lab?

I mean really. Do you?

[janx]

65. That's strange. Pot must be awfully strong these days.

Twenty-five years ago, eating one cookie with some indiscernable pot in it (meaning there must not have been very much) wouldn't do much to anyone. I mean, this teacher would have noticed strings of stems and lumpy buds in the cookie otherwise, no? Yes, I know that people grind the pot before they put it into the brownie/cookie batter, but it's still obvious.

But maybe things have changed. And the fact that this teacher was narcoleptic could not have helped matters any. (Teaching high school these days would make anyone that way, probably.)

In any case, the kids tried to drug the teacher, so they should be summarily punished, and to the full extent of the law. While I doubt that the teacher crashed because of the pot in the cookie, the principle of what the kids did is the same, and they should have to deal with the consequences.

[Zhade]

160. Actually, if you read other posts on this thread, you'll note differently.

Usually, the marijuana is used to make THC butter, which is not visibly different after cooked with (beforehand, yes, it's yellow or green).

So it's definitely possible to load up a recipe with a lot of THC.

[daleo]

67. Drugging someone's food without informing them is just wrong

And certainly some kind of punishment is in order. The strength of the medical reaction is surprising, though. It seems likely that his existing condition (narcolepsy) did exacerbate the situation. Interesting that narcolepsy and narcotic start with the same 5 letters:

narco-, narc-, -narcotic, narcotico-, -narcosis, -narcoticism (Greek: numbness, dullness; sleep, stupor, torpor; benumb, deaden).

http://www.medicalassistant.net/glwordlist.htm

[Guaranteed]

68. You're goddamned right it is.

The women here at DU at the VERY least should be pretty angry.

Roofies, anyone?

It's fucking WRONG.

[Cronus Protagonist]

70. Are you gonna eat that?

Just wondering....

Click here for "FUCK BUSH", and other fair and balanced yet stunning buttons, magnets and stickers

[bitchkitty]

71. Silly, silly, silly

News flash: marijuana does not cause a person to suddenly collapse. If the teacher was not living in a bubble, he would have known the feeling of being stoned already. They didn't even find out about this until the kids bragged about it. If he didn't know he was stoned, then it must have been some shitty pot. Or it was just teenaged boys talking trash.

on edit: narcolepsy, on the other hand, will cause a person to collapse.

[R Hickey]

75. America has a predatory legal system that grinds up kids.

Its a slam dunk that our harsh drug-war laws will ruin these kid's lives.

This sounds like a stupid, teen-ager's prank to me. If they'd had a sinister, criminal intent to rob or rape the teacher after he'd passed out, then it would be worse, and worthy of prison, but I don't think this rises to that level.

But in Amerika, where since Saint Reagan, our government has decided to lock up ten times as many people as any other nation on earth, in their effort to purify society, perhaps our government should kill these lads, and make an example of them.

If we gas, hang, be-head, or electrocute these two kids, then it will send a clear message to teens, all over this land: "If you pull a childish prank, and think its funny, big brother will kill you."

The punishment should fit the crime. And living in a nation possessed by an hysterical "pot-witch-hunt," precludes those kid's chance at a fair trial, or anything like a just sentence.

I'm sure this thoughtless, adolescent prank will get these kids raped so many times in the Reagan gulag, that they'll never think anything is funny again, for as long as they live, which won't be very long, since they'll probably have contracted AIDS before they leave Amerika's cancerous drug gulag.

[Crunchy Frog]

107. Oh, but prison rape

is just a childish prank as well. Rush Limbaugh has already clearly established that.

What, are these kids so sexually uptight that they can't handle a little good natured sodomy?

[dsc]

80. Do you have some citation of all the numerous studies

done on narcoleptic pot smokers? If so I would love to see the proof that people with narcolepcy aren't made to pass out by smoking pot.

[bitchkitty]

137. I'd love to see the proof that they do,

but that wouldn't leave a lot of room left for righteous indignation. I repeat - silly.

[dsc]

167. The man was in the hospital

there is another message here saying that essentially the same thing happened to an epileptic. So you need to back up your claim (it is your claim not mine that the marijuana had nothing to do with this).

[rinsd]

141. Must be nice in that bubble....

Jesus......even as a smoker I find that attitude to be close minded at best.

Perhaps you are unaware that nacrolepsy involves quite a heavy drug regimes to treat it. And that an intoxicant like marijuana may not react so well with said meds let alone that man's standing medical condition.

I love it . I fight for people to put what they want into their own bodies. You blame a man who was unknowingly dosed for kicks. No wonder med marijuana has so much PR trouble.

[Speed8098]

72. I replied earlier but after reading the whole thread....

I'm appalled at the ignorance being displayed here.

1. MARIJUANA HAS NEVER BEEN PROVED TO BE HARMFUL TO ANYONE!!!!!
2. What about the kid that spikes the punch at a party or a dance? Well....what about it? None of you anti-weed people have said a word about that. Is it okay in your opinion?
3. The guy was narcoleptic.
4.What was the diagnosis from the hospital?
5. Were the cookies tested? Do we know for sure that they were laced?

Get down off your high horses. It was a stupid prank and should not be treated as if it were a felony. Give the kids a suspension with some detention and get over it.

The punishment should fit the "crime".

I'll believe weed sent him to the hospital on the day that pigs fly.

Before you flame me, address the spiked punch question I posed.
The consequences are far worse than a little weed in a cookie.
Can you say D.W.I.?


The thing wrong about marijuana is the fact that it's illegal. Hey, it's illegal to break the speed limit, but prominent Americans do it every single day.

[dsc]

74. Yes I thnk spiking punch should also get

17 year olds jail time. As you point out the potential may be worse though DWI can be marijuana as well. But you have no idea if that marijuana was pure or tainted and neither did those boys.

[R Hickey]

76. So your main arguement is that the marijuana may have been tainted?

I'm sorry but this was a childish prank, and should be treated as such.

[dsc]

78. No it isn't

Or was it a childish prank when our troops forced Iraqi prisoners to eat pork and drink alcohol. I have made a conscious decision to live without the benefit of mind altering drugs. Just because I am a teacher I shouldn't forfeit that right for some childish prank.

[Crunchy Frog]

108. I like how nobody on this board

has bothered to answer that question, though it's been asked more than once.

What about slipping pork to an Orthodox Jew? Would that be a hilarious childish prank as well? After all, there is no evidence that pork is harmful, as long as it's properly cooked.

[dsc]

113. of course not

They know how utterly hypocritical they will look when they do.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

152. I wonder

Although we do know for sure that someone with narcolepsy may pass out for no reason - that's the definition of the condition - it's only speculation that THC may cause someone with narcolepsy to pass out. It doesn't seem unlikely to me, however.

So, to extend your analogy, would slipping pork to an Orthodox Jew cause him to pass out? Without passing out, how would the victim know they were a victim?

[Pathwalker]

224. As someone who is VERY allergic to pork, it would

most certainly harm me. I could very well end up hospitalized. For this reason, I don't eat at very many restaurants, unless I know for a fact that pork will not be mixed in any way with anything I eat. And, yes, people have "tested" me on this, much to their chagrin - and my anger.

I was also, twenty-plus years ago, given LSD without my knowledge by a psychopath who wanted to have sex with me. He thought it would undo my "reservations" about him. I was newly divorced at the time, and he wouldn't take no for an answer.

Silly fool - he unleashed my inner lunatic.

To say that it "altered" my life doesn't do it justice. I had never taken LSD, didn't have a CLUE that it had happened. Well, to make a bitter long story short, let's just say; he not only didn't succeed, but he ended up in the hospital and spoke soprano for a month. After my release from a different hospital, I went into therapy for a DECADE to "repair the damage" done to me that night.

As someone who favors the legalization of pot, I must say that all pranks are not created equal; those that HARM another person ARE an assault - IMO. To treat this as harmless is mistaken, AFAIAC.

[Speed8098]

77. What does the tox report say?

There would be a toxicology report if drugs were suspected, what does it say?

You have obviously never smoked or even seen a bag of pot. If you had, you would know that laced weed can be identified with 1 good whiff.

Shitty smell.

I'm not saying this was a good thing to do. I'm saying it was a harmless prank that is being blown out of proportion by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Don't fall for the anti-weed propaganda. It's all lies.

[dsc]

79. The man was in the hospital for three days

Gee, wonder how that could have happened. As to the smell issue, the pot was in cookies the whole point was to sneak it into the guy. BTW I have smoked pot before. But I made a choice, and supposedly liberals are big on this notion, to live drug free. I shouldn't have that overruled by some prank. Was it OK when our soldiers forced the Iraqi prisoners to eat pork and drink alcohol?

[stickdog]

149. And if somebody spiked the punch and you drank it, wouldn't that be

even worse than a 3 day hospital stay?

If they kids actually spiked the cookies, they should certainly be punished.

However, jail time is not appropriate. Not even close.

[dsc]

154. I think I said

that spiking the punch I found just as bad. I do think age matters in that if we are talking about 12 year olds that is different than the 17 year olds here. But otherwise the penalty should be substantially similar.

[Sanctimonious_Liberal]

84. Show your bias much?

Marijuana has never proved harmful to anyone? In any way whatsoever?

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Look, I've been steeped in marijuana culture for over 25 years. I've seen it all, from Columbian imported into the southeast to the most potent bud on the planet cultivated right here in Humboldt County, where I've lived for the last decade.

To say that you can't OD by eating pot is just plain ignorant.

You can. And people do all the time.

Maybe it doesn't kill them, but one heavily dosed brownie can easily render unconscious even the most chronic smoker. The moments leading up to unconsiousness will be accompanied by extreme nausea and sheer panic at the loss of control. Upon awaking the victim won't feel much better. And, as others have pointed out, since THC is fat soluble, it's not difficult to mask its content in a cookie or brownie if you render the pot down with butter first. It is no challenge to get the majority of the THC content of an 1/8 or more into a single brownie if you know what you're doing. Think about that. Think about pot today that can get you blotto off a single bong hit, and think about how loaded you'd get if you did 20 or 30 in a single sitting. You couln't do it! After a half dozen or so you'd be so wasted you wouldn't be capable of holding the thing to your face any longer. But by eating it all at once, you'd never even know it was in your system until it was too late.

I'm not in the business of running around convicting pot smokers. I'm quite liberal about it. But I am also realistic and I don't harbor any illusions that it can cause no harm. There are deadbeat jerk-off waste cases all over the place who will never be anything but a wart on the ass of society because all they do is smoke pot all day long. Like anything, it has to be consumed in moderation, and when moderation goes out the window, much harm can and will be done. Dosing somebody with marijuana against their will or without their knowledge can easily result in a situation where the victim loses control over their own reality, if only for a day or two. That is CRIMINAL, and should be treated as such. I'm not suggesting we lock these kids up for years, but they should be made to understand the harm they've caused, and all you idiots who are so adamant that nobody was ever hurt by marijuana are only hurting your own cause by insisting otherwise.

[dsc]

87. Great post

It is amazing that a board which prides itself on individual freedom seem not to value the freedom not to do drugs.

[R Hickey]

90. Do the kids have freedom not to have drugs forced upon them by teachers?

It seems we have a double standard here.

It is alright to lock up kids when they dose their teacher, yet where is the outrage at the pharmaceutical companies which are drugging millions of kids everyday?

The pharmaceutical industry has discovered a new cash cow. Children. And they drug them with their psycho-drugs for every reason from smarting off in class, to...well, more smarting off in class.

DSC, where is your outrage on that drugging situation?

If I were a kid in school nowadays, they'd probably have me hooked, addicted, on so many psycho-drugs that by the time I graduated, I'd need to wear six straight-jackets under my cap and gown.

These drug corporations are in business to make money. Corporations don't give a shit about your kids. When these corporations advertise, claiming that they are only trying to "save the children," they are lying. Their corporate help comes in the form of addicting boys and girls to Ritalin, or to some other mind-altering drug, and the companies always tell you that the greed isn't their motive.

They are lying. They are telling you a bigger lie than ever told by the baddest crack-peddler in the worst slum in the country. So lets view this matter in its proper perspective.

[dsc]

93. teachers are rarely behind this

Yes, some teachers on occasion recommed it, but most are as appalled as you are. In the overwhelming majority of these cases there are only two places to affix blame. One being the drug/doctor industry the other being the parents. I have worked in many different schools and I have never seen, nor heard of a school making kids take drugs.

[DoktorGreg]

97. Actually Teachers are the ones turning kids onto drugs

They get them started early, on ritalin and other dangerous stimulants. The most nefarious aspect of this is they convince the parents that taking the dangerous stimulants (far more dangerous than the alleged pot in the alleged cookie anyhow) will somehow help them. Even though in most cases it does not.

[dsc]

100. blatently false

I work in several elementary schools and teachers do no such thing. First teachers can't prescribe meds. Second, very few teachers ever would suggest things like that to parents (maybe special ed teachers but even then most don't). Most teachers are appalled by the extent to which drugging kids has become common.

[DoktorGreg]

105. Here is a page that guides teachers in turning kids onto drugs

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/learning/teacher.shtml

[dsc]

110. You quoted nothing from that page

I looked, admittedly not super carefully, but found not one word about drugs.

[DoktorGreg]

106. Another page teaching teachers how to get kids hooked on drugs

http://www.newideas.net/p0000570.htm

[dsc]

111. One of us is 0 for 2

Yet again, not one word about drugs. This one I did read carefully since it was considerably shorter.

[Sanctimonious_Liberal]

173. Straw man.

This thread isn't about pharmaceuticals. By trying to twist it into that, you're a) suggesting that all teachers are hellbent on getting all childred dependent on Ritalin, which is horseshit, and b) that since we're not not more outraged at a) than we are at what this thread is actually about, then it's OK for kids to dose teachers because they're doing it in self defense or something.

Actually, both a) and b) above are horseshit as well. How do you like having your arguments mischaracterized and then painted back on you? Sucks, don't it?

I'll grant you that far too many drugs are foisted on kids to ill effect for the wrong reasons. My wife, a teacher, and the vast majority of her collegues would agree as well, rendering your straw man point moot.

The fact is that this thread is about some KIDS who dosed a TEACHER with a drug without his knowledge and against his will. Where is the logic in asking someone who thinks that's wrong why they are insufficiently outraged over a completely unrelated issue?

[dsc]

180. He or she lied to boot

There are two links below which he or she purports to show teachers doing this. Neither one has even one word about drugs. Not a single, solitary word. It has now been close to 2 days since that has been pointed out with nary a word of apology or explanation.

[Speed8098]

130. Delusional

Think about pot today that can get you blotto off a single bong hit, and think about how loaded you'd get if you did 20 or 30 in a single sitting. You couln't do it! After a half dozen or so you'd be so wasted you wouldn't be capable of holding the thing to your face any longer.

I'm a 32 year smoker, and I've Never ever seen anyone so stoned that they couldn't control their bodily functions.

You know not of what you speak.

Dosing somebody with marijuana against their will or without their knowledge can easily result in a situation where the victim loses control over their own reality,

Please show me ANYTHING ANYWHERE that documents even ONE CASE of someone losing control of reality from smoking or eating weed.

Look, I've been steeped in marijuana culture for over 25 years

:wtf: does that mean??

Sounds like something an undercover cop might say.

It looks to me as if the propaganda has worked on you.

I guess that spiking the punch with Bacardi 151 is just fine with you then.

[Sanctimonious_Liberal]

170. "I guess that spiking the punch with Bacardi 151 is just fine with you"???

What the hell is that supposed to mean? I believe it's wrong to dupe somebody into consuming marijuana without their knowledge and against their will, so you assume that I'm perfectly OK with somebody doing the exact same thing only with a different drug?

Riiight.

I have SEEN no fewer than four adults, two of them regular smokers, rendered completely unconscious by eating pot. I've gotten way more stoned than I ever wanted to be eating it myself once. It can happen, and it does. Just because you've never seen it doesn't make you an expert by exclusion. You're the one buying into your own propaganda trying to justify something that can't be justified.

[Sanctimonious_Liberal]

177. Eating too much

It took me less than a minute of Googling to locate three pro-marijuana oriented websites that warn against the dangers of eating too much pot even as they offer up recipes for doing so.

And YOU accuse ME of not knowing of what I speak?

http://www.hempfiles.com/php/section.php?id=3

"While it is not possible to overdose on weed, the effects of eating too much cannabis are not pleasant. You may feel sick, confused, unable to move or talk, and your coordination may be heavily affected. These effects may last long, much longer than when smoked. It is therefore important not to eat too much. Start with a low dose, and increase it the next time, if needed. Experiment to find the right amount. If you eat too much, a high dose of vitamin c (200mg or more) may help to make you feel better."

http://www.drugs-plaza.com/marihuana_eating.htm

"Eating marijuana has a different effect than smoking it. It not only takes longer before the feeling starts, but it stays longer as well. This makes it more difficult to dosage the stuff. It's easy to get too much of THC in your blood which can give you a very good trip or a very bad trip. You wouldn't be the first one ending up in the hospital. So before eating marijuana you should have some experience. "


http://www.marijuana.com/420/archive/index.php/t-5706.html

"Bongzilla
Just put some peanut butter on a cracker, and put either a nice fat bud or ground weed in it.

Ech cheese, I couldn't eat that with weed!

I love eating marijuana, I just wish the effects came on sooner. Usually I eat a few grams and depending on the bud, am stuck to my bed or am totally tripping out.

Last weekend I ate about 4 grams of MJ, smoked a bit, and had one beer because everyone else was eating a certain fungus and I don't really like that stuff. I was tripping so hard I was running around the park at 2.00am trying to see what it's like to be an animal. :D

Eating marijuana affects me A LOT differently than smoking it does, so I make sure not to eat too much, it can get a little intense.

[stickdog]

150. Dude, if you put an eighth in a dozen cookies, they would all taste like

eating a pine tree. Literally.

[rinsd]

140. Stupid prank?

"1. MARIJUANA HAS NEVER BEEN PROVED TO BE HARMFUL TO ANYONE!!!!!"

Ahhh even as a med marijuana, decrim marijuana supporter I find this statement laughable. Say "nobody overdosed weed" and I'm with you. But marijuana can ceratinly be harmful indeed brining along with the many maladies of other intoxicants. Certainly people on serious medication such as that to control narcolepsy could be adversely effected by an intoxicant.

"2. What about the kid that spikes the punch at a party or a dance? Well....what about it? None of you anti-weed people have said a word about that. Is it okay in your opinion?"

Ohh a strawman. Who the hell said that was okay? Because it isn't. It's not anti-weed. It's anti-passing substances onto unknowing people.

"3. The guy was narcoleptic."

Yes, which means the interaction of drugs may have made him ill.

"4.What was the diagnosis from the hospital?"

We don't know from this article.

"5. Were the cookies tested? Do we know for sure that they were laced?"

We only have this from the article:"Medical examiners found traces of THC, tetrahydrocannabinol, the intoxicant in marijuana, in the U.S. history teacher's system after they knew to look for it, a sheriff's press release stated." And the statement that the kids were bragging about the cookies being laced with marijuana.

[Speed8098]

161. ":"Medical examiners found traces of THC"

Traces???

[RememberTheCoup]

163. *after* they knew to look for it

From the article: "Medical examiners found traces of THC, tetrahydrocannabinol, the intoxicant in marijuana, in the U.S. history teacher's system after they knew to look for it, a sheriff's press release stated."

So this was several days after the incident occurred. The teacher collapsed on Friday, May 28th, and the students allegedly started bragging about it early the following week.

[stickdog]

166. Marijuana, marijuana

LSD, LSD
all the teachers use it, all the teachers use it
why can't we? why can't we?

[RememberTheCoup]

169. Not sure exactly what your point is.

Please elaborate.

[stickdog]

172. Just that finding traces of pot in a teacher's blood stream doesn't

necessarily mean he was unknowingly dosed.

In this case, though, I'm inclined to side with the prosecution even though I think the "few" days in the hospital claim was either overstated or wholly unnecessary.

And the "he's still recovering" claim is completely ridiculous. He could have eaten a pound of pot, and he'd be fully recovered in a week.

[rinsd]

175. When mixed with meds taken for nacrolepsy?

That is the likely cause of his hospital stay, not the pot itself.

I have an uncle with nacrolepsy and he has to be very careful with alcohol. Even at his size (he's 6-3, 300lbs), more than one drink can make him very ill. He has also gotten ill when exposed to marijuana smoke(at Shea Stadium).

[stickdog]

178. I'm not disputing that this guy got sick. But no pot cookie stays in your

system at a perceptible level for a week. It's just not pharmacologically possible.

Sorry.

The guy is just taking a well deserved paid vacation.

[rinsd]

182. I agree. It's the combo not the cookie alone. (nt)

[dsc]

183. that is horse hockey

if that were the case drug tests wouldn't work. From what I have heard the standard is 6 months with an ability to detect.

[stickdog]

187. You have no idea what you are talking about.

If you are talking about blood testing, the standard is 45 days from heavy, constant users and 15 days for a one time episode.

Hair testing is another matter. Your hair holds almost a complete history of your drug habits if it is examined closely enough.

[RememberTheCoup]

189. 15 days? Then why are you insisting...

...the pot would not be perceptible after a week?

[stickdog]

192. You've obviously never smoked or eaten pot.

Unlike other drugs, it can be detected by a blood test much, much longer can it can be detected experiencially -- even by the most sensitive individuals.

The amount of cannabinoids left in this guy's system today is like the amount of alcohol in a sip of non-alcoholic beer.

[dsc]

195. I will give you that

but that isn't what you said. You said perceptually which means detectable.

[stickdog]

200. Perceptually as in psychoactively detectable by the dosed person

is what I meant.

Look, I agree with 90% of ewhat you are saying.

I am picking two nits here.

1) Nobody -- not even Mr. Burns -- would be laid up from the direct effects of devil weed 10 days later.

2) Unless these graduating students are habitually dangerous to others (or unless they were aware of their teacher's health problems and were trying to hurt him) an educational punishment like enforced drug counseling and community service would be more appropriate than a jail sentence.

[RememberTheCoup]

205. Who said anything about 10 days?

He was hospitalized for several days and spent a few more days recovering at home. The article was written a week after the teacher collapsed. However, I am not at all certain that marijuana ingestion couldn't cause a person who already had some existing medical condition to be "laid up" for 10 days, and I don't know why you are so insistent that you do know.

[stickdog]

208. It was 10 days between the time the guy was dosed and the time the article

came out.

Meanwhile, the teacher was still at home, ostensibly "recovering" from the safest drug in the world.

[RememberTheCoup]

211. No, the article came out June 4th - one week later (nt)

[stickdog]

215. And we're still arging about it in LBN?

Whoops ... I musta been high or something.

[dsc]

190. and of course hospitals would never test hair

After all it isn't like they have medical equipment and all (no wait, it is like that).

[dsc]

191. I do know what I am talking about

and every marijuana user I know will not take an honest urine test unless they have not been smoking for 6 months. Presumedly they would know.

[stickdog]

196. You are nuts. Any user can pass a standard test by laying off for 45 days.

One time users can generally pass by laying off for 15 days.

You want to raise your metabolism and lose weight during the "drying out" period, then lower your metabolism and start gaining weight before you come to the period in which you might be subject to testing.

Of course, the longer you have, the more sure you'll be. And, of course, there are several levels of drug testing, and the barest of pot traces will remain locked in "dead" parts of your body forever.

[dsc]

197. maybe they are all paranoid

though it should be noted that even you are suggesting dishonest means of acheiving the end of passing the test. So evidently you don't really believe that pot passes through in the time you say it does.

[stickdog]

201. Dishonest?

Please. The only dishonest thing is that drug tests aren't called pot tests because unless you are a constant drug user that's all they are.

[dsc]

203. I am not saying I wouldn't do it or encourage other to do it

but it still is dishonest in the scientific sense and what I meant in my post. If you really believed that all traces of pot were gone when you said the were, then you wouldn't resort to those means to pass the test.

[RememberTheCoup]

184. How long do you think pot remains perceptible?

Presumably the teacher did not have occasion to use pot for the several days after he collapsed and was hospitalized. Yet the pot was at a perceptible level at least several days after the collapse because they found it in his bloodstream. You hypothesized that the guy could have been using pot on his own before the cookie incident, so you apparently think pot can remain perceptible for even longer than the several days between the time he ate the cookie and the time they tested him for THC. Yet, you are certain all traces would have disappeared after a week?

Beside, how long the marijuana remains in his system is not the point. Marijuana could have led to another medical problem that did not disappear as soon as the effect of the marijuana wore off. If someone comes into the ER with alcohol poisoning, is that person automatically discharged as soon as the alcohol level goes down to a "safe" level?

EDIT: spelling

[stickdog]

188. Once again ...

All I'm saying is that he could have eaten a pound of pot, and his body would have removed all but the barest traces within 10 days (unless, of course, he was an active user).

Almost all drugs are effectively eliminated from the body within 3 or 4 days. Because most cannabinoids are fat soluable, pot is an exception to this rule. For constant daily pot users, it could take up to 45 days to remove all traces of cannabinoids from one's system. This is why one of the reasons why pot isn't classically "addictive" -- because it has its own embedded weening system.

However, it's the FREQUENCY of use and not the AMOUNT that determines how long it takes to eliminate cannabinoids from one's system. For a one time user, almost any level of consumption would be eliminated to almost unmeasurable levels (and certainly WELL below psychoactive levels) within 10 days. That's just the basic pharmacology of the substance. Nothing more and nothing less.

[RememberTheCoup]

179. The point I was trying to make...

...was that the reason only traces were found could have been due to the fact that they did not look for it until several days after it was allegedly ingested.

Why do you think the teacher was kept in the hospital for several days if it was "wholly unnecessary"? Do you think his insurance company was just in a generous mood? Do you think hospital staff just wanted the pleasure of his company? Do you think the man wanted to be in the hospital for that long? I don't know what you mean by "overstated." He was either kept in the hospital for several days or he wasn't.

Why are you so certain that you know exactly how marijuana would have affected this individual? Are you a medical professional? Are you an expert on narcolepsy? Do you know what prescribed drugs this person was taking and exactly how they interact with marijuana (of which there are many different varieties and strengths)? People are not kept in the hospital for several days for no reason. What if the teacher had struck his head when he collapsed?

The doctors didn't know what caused his collapse. What if they had administered some treatment that was counterindicated where marijuana was in the system? What if they failed to administer a treatment that could have helped because they didn't know about the marijuana? Suppose the teacher was kept in the hospital for nothing more than observation. What if he had contracted a secondary illness from his hospital stay (actually a very common occurrence)? At the very least, he was greatly inconvenienced and probably frightened.

But of course that's all irrelevant because you can state definitively that even if the students had slipped the teacher marijuana without his knowledge, that the marijuana would have had no bad effects. Are you a medical professional?

[stickdog]

186. The story says " a few days." That could mean anything over 18 hours.

Furthermore, the doctors probably wanted to find out what was causing this guy to be all zonked out before they released him.

Why are you so certain that you know exactly how marijuana would have affected this individual? Are you a medical professional? Are you an expert on narcolepsy?

No, but I am an expert on the how long it takes for more than the tracest levels of cannabinoids to be eliminated from the human body.

All I'm saying is that he could have eaten a pound of pot, and his body would have removed all but the barest traces within 10 days (unless, of course, he was an active user).

Almost all drugs are effectively eliminated from the body within 3 or 4 days. Because most cannabinoids are fat soluable, pot is an exception to this rule. For constant daily pot users, it could take up to 45 days to remove all traces of cannabinoids from one's system. This is why one of the reasons why pot isn't classically "addictive" -- because it has its own embedded weening system.

However, it's the FREQUENCY of use and not the AMOUNT that determines how long it takes to eliminate cannabinoids from one's system. For a one time user, almost any level of consumption would be eliminated to almost unmeasurable levels (and certainly WELL below psychoactive levels) within 10 days. That's just the basic pharmacology of the substance. Nothing more and nothing less.

[RememberTheCoup]

193. No. They didn't test him till after the students started bragging.

He collapsed on Friday. The students allegedly started bragging early the following week. The earliest that could have been is Sunday, which is two days. But it probably meant a school day which would have made it at least three days. If the students bragged on a Monday and the hospital tested in him that same day, that's a best-case scenario of 3 days. If there was not pot in the cookie but the guy had used pot prior to that -- let's say Thursday -- we're up to 4 days.

You didn't say anything about "barest traces" before. You said that pot from a cookie would not be "perceptible" after a week. And you just stated 15 days for one-time use, and now you're saying 10 days, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

"Furthermore, the doctors probably wanted to find out what was causing this guy to be all zonked out before they released him."

[stickdog]

204. So, you are saying that he couldn't have gone back for testing?

Whatever.

This isn't worth arguing about.

My only point here is that there isn't single safer psychoactive drug than ingested marijuana.

Not tobacco.

Not alcohol.

Not aspirin.

Not ibuprofin.

Not Sominex.

Not Nyquil.

Not Pseudofed.

Not Dramamine.

None.

[RememberTheCoup]

209. And any of those, while generally safe,...

...can be dangerous if consumed by people with specific medical conditions or under specific circumstances. One beer is not very dangerous. Unless you have something like vicodin in your system. Unless you are alcoholic. Unless you are a small child. Unless you are allergic to alcohol. Unless... who knows? I don't pretend to know the effects of drugs on every single person that might consume them and neither should you.

EDIT:
And yes, I suppose it is possible that this teacher could have come home from spending several days in the hospital, consumed marijuana recreationally within a day or so of being released, and then voluntarily gone back in to have his blood tested for THC. I just don't think it's very likely.

[stickdog]

210. Of course.

That's why nobody should ever be dosed with ANYTHING without knowing what it is.

But suppose these kids handed their teacher a laxative in the guise of chocolate? He could have been hospitalized by this prank as well, depending upon his previous medical conditions.

But would anybody be recommending a jail sentence for them?

[RememberTheCoup]

213. I don't think I ever said anything about jail time.

I don't think I ever made any suggestions at all as to what would be an appropriate punishment if these students are found guilty. Some posters have recommended jail time, and some have said they would feel the same if the students had spiked the teacher's drink with alcohol. You are assuming some posters would recommend a more lenient punishment for putting a laxative in the brownie, but you have not identified any posters who have stated this themselves. If you do, you can discuss it with them.

[stickdog]

217. Cool, bro. It's all good. (nt)

[tridim]

91. A friend's dog ate a 1/2" diameter ball of hash

and was fine. She was majorly stoned for 24 hours, but other than that, just fine. I smell BS.

What I want to know is why the teacher didn't notice the cookie was laced. Pot cookies taste very much like pot. Even if he didn't know what pot tastes like, it certainly doesn't taste like a normal cookie.

[Crunchy Frog]

109. Did the dog have narcolepsy?

Should we observe exactly the same standards for how we treat people, as for how we treat dogs?

[Dr Fate]

99. Drugging someone with anything is wrong.

IF those kids really did this, then they need to go down.

And for those who doubt a pot cookie cant be this strong, you are wrong. I was a t a party where a whole room full of veteran pot-smokers got sick (including me)because the cookies were just too damn strong. We had people puking, acting like they were on acid, and it lasted well into the next day.

[stickdog]

145. Sure. But they tasted like eating a pine tree, didn't they? (nt)

[Logansquare]

102. Look--narcolepsy is a condition that is very sensitive to drugs

Many narcoleptics experience a condition where their muscles suddenly relax and they collapse. It can be induced by strong emotions, insufficient nighttime sleep, or substances that relax muscle tone, i.e. alcohol or marijuana, among others. The poor man was not given the choice as to whether he wanted to take a muscle relaxer, and he could have been seriously injured if he had happened to be on a stairway, or even worse, behind the wheel of a car. I hope the kids are truly remorseful, and that the whole school gets an education in how unfunny a practical joke can be when it involves giving someone a mind-altering substance (and that includes alcohol) without consent.

[Hekate]

120. Meds for narcolepsy + street drugs = Bad Idea

For gods sake, folks, hospitals toss sick people out extremely fast nowadays, and he was kept for three days.

Narcolepsy is a brain disorder the same as epilepsy is a brain disorder, and specific drugs are used to control it so people can live a relatively normal life. If uncontrolled, one certainly could not drive or operate machinery, and even teaching would be out of bounds. I'm certain his principal was developing contingency plans for his replacement...

To his students this was a practical joke (and like most practical jokes it was cruel), but it could have permanently harmed the man. Stupidity and ignorance are no excuse.

Prison? No, but certainly let them migrate through the juvenile justice system's courts for awhile. Expulsion from school for a year? Yes -- split up the little darlings' group and send them to separate schools for a year.

Hekate

[despairing optimist]

122. Gee, there are enough flames on this thread

to light a pound of weed!

Can't we all just get along? Or am I just a dumb newbie?

(I'm looking for cover now.)

Here's a way to unite us: let's all think of how Uncle Ron would have handled this one. I don't know about you, but I couldn't stand reading or hearing about how wonderful and great a president he was. I lost my best friend in '89 because he wouldn't utter the word AIDS for seven years and thus only AZT was available for treatment. Ask Nicaraguans how wonderful they think he was. Or those people whose disability benefits he summarily cut off. Or those homeless people who, he said, are homeless because they wanted to be--this remark coming shortly before he joined in a Hands Across America action in support of the homeless.

It's enough to make anyone light up, turn on, and tune out.

As for the issue at hand: The kids in this case probably thought they were playing a cool trick and got in over their heads when their teacher collapsed. Not funny at all. Funny people, or people trying to be funny, must assume the risk that their words or acts may have the opposite effect. If they hurt someone, they have to pay for it. How they pay for it is a matter for school and other authorities to decide. The teacher himself can sue the kids' parents for civil damages too regardless of the criminal court decision.

It's a good thing the teacher wasn't permanently harmed as a result of an innocent prank. I'm sure the kids are awfully sorry now. Maybe some sort of community service agreement can smooth things over.

[Norton]

124. Getting someone stoned

without their knowledge, especially while they're on the job, is the mark of someone who has gotten away with too much for too long. If they get jail time, maybe they'll learn to respect the rights of others... like the right to not be out of your mind without your knowledge or consent! Those kids are creeps for what they did, end of story. Maybe the idiots posting here that think the teacher should've been more careful about what he ate, (really stupid argument by the way), should consider the kids carelessness instead. Maybe they should've checked into the possible charges before they did the crime? If they were willing to do the time, by all means... do the crime! I had LSD slipped to me and will never forget it... not amusing. I can only imagine how terrifying being that high with no prior experience would've been. Again, the kids are brats who are likely long overdue for a lesson in respecting the rights of others. I'd feel this way even if the teacher hadn't gotten sick at all. DSC, you're "right on"... Doktor Greg and Texas Mexican might be cut out for prison gaurd duty somewhere???

[stickdog]

151. Hopefully they'll be raped in jail!

THAT'D LEARN 'EM GOOD!

Do they deserve to be punished? Sure.

Make them do 500 hours of community service for drug addicts.

But send minors to jail because they annoyed a teacher with a couple of pot cookies?

What would you suggest if they gave the guy laxative cookies?

[dsc]

155. the man was in the hospital for 3 days

that strikes me as more than an annoyance.

[stickdog]

156. Is he OK? Will he suffer ANY permanent damage of ANY kind?

No.

He was in the hospital for observation and you know it.

[dsc]

162. Have you been to a hospital lately?

They don't leave people in for observation anymore. People only spend a few days in the hospital for bypass surgery. The man must have been quite sick.

[RememberTheCoup]

164. And even after he was released...

...he was still "recovering." The article is dated a week after the incident, and at that point he was still unable to return to work.

I admire your patience, dsc. It's mind-boggling how some people can let their devotion to one cause (marijuana decriminalization) blind them to the extent that they seem unable to apply basic logic to an incident which really has nothing to do with their pet issue and everything to do with the physical violation of another person's body.

[stickdog]

174. It's not a devotion to a cause. It's just a finely tuned bs detector.

If you really think this man is "still recovering" from a pot cookie a week later, you need to bring yours in for a check up.

Seriously.

It's like saying he was laid up for 10 days because he took 4 Sominex or drank a bottle of Nyquil.

[rinsd]

176. I don't think it was the pot cookie alone....

I think it was the pot cookie in combination with whatever he was taking for nacrolepsy.

[stickdog]

181. The level of cannabinoids left in this guy's system after 10 days

would be almost unmeasurable (unless, of course, he's an active user) even if he ate an entire pound of primo pot "by mistake."

I'm not disputing the fact that he got sick. I'm not disputing the fact that dosing the guy was a horrible thing. But unless he's got his own stash, he's been back to his normal narcoleptic self for several days now.

[dsc]

185. I would have serious trust issues

if it were me. I am not sure I would come back for the rest of the year. That is apart from whatever other reasons he may have.

[stickdog]

206. Come on. Does he work in an inner city public school?

You are blowing this out of proportion. If he's made it this far as a high school teacher, I have a feeling he's seen or at least heard of worse.

He's fine. Some idiot kids pulled an idiot stunt on him. Because of a previous medical condition, the experience (which would probably not have been pleasant in any case) was both very scary and extremely uncomfortable.

But he's fine now. Pot is not alcohol, he's not a potaholic, and he's about to get three months off.

[dsc]

227. I haven't a clue where he works

but I have worked in city schools (Cleveland Ohio) and I haven't had my food doctored by anyone. I also haven't seen a teacher assulted. There are plenty of misconceptions about inner city schools. A well run one will have mostly the same problems as other schools only slightly more kids being problems. But degree is about the same.

[stickdog]

165. Well, you have a point there about the length of hospitalization.

To be honest, I don't know what to make of that.

However, when eaten, weed has ZERO long term health effects.

Once again, I think these dirt balls deserve to be punished, but the punishment should fit the crime. Something like 10 hours of community service for every hour that teacher spent in the hospital would be fair.

[salin]

212. and cover monetary costs

all hospital bills... lost wages, etc.

Kids are responsible for their actions - food tampering can wreak havoc on the victim. There should be restitution (the dude shouldn't have to pay) - as well as serious community service (serious as in its not like a little prank...)

And to whoever was suggesting it is the teachers fault for not asking what was in the cookie... I doubt there would be any legal standing on that. There is no reason to presume that a cookie would have toxic or mind/mood altering substances... only reason to ask is if one has food alergies to ingredients typical to cookies.

All of this said, of course, depends upon whether or not the students are found guilty.

[stickdog]

216. Agreed. (nt)

[Solon]

127. I could understand the reaction...

Let me say this, individuals react to drugs in different ways, period. When I smoke weed, I'm mellow as hell, then take a nap, no big deal. My buddy, who has epilepsy, brakes out in seizures when he tokes. He took his meds as prescribed, and it happened within seconds after ONE hit. Don't know if there is causation, however, a preexisting medical condition can cause adverse effects from the most harmless drugs. Whether the kids' lives should be ruined for a felony or not is up to the courts to decide. I believe everyone has the right to choose what they will or will not put in their bodies, as long as it is THEIR choice. What these kids did was fucked up, they should have asked him first, it is that simple.

[rinsd]

142. Bingo!

Their choice, not someone else's.

I feel for your friend. I have an uncle with narcolepsy who actually got very ill once because he was around marijuana smoke. I also had a friend with a brain tumor who had seizures and marijuana was helpful in countering some of her med reactions. To each his own but with consent.

[stickdog]

147. I saw that Barney Miller episode, too.

[Frangible]

194. I think MJ should be legallized

But it's still wrong to put something in something deceptively like what was done here.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

198. I love pot

and i would love for someone to slip me a mj cookie, but giving it to someone without their consent is plain wrong. i do doubt that they guy needed to be in hospital days after the incident. the kids should be punished but i think prison is a little too much.

[RememberTheCoup]

202. Why do you doubt it?

"i do doubt that they guy needed to be in hospital days after the incident."

Why do you doubt it? The story says he was hospitalized for several days. Do you think this journalist is lying for some reason? Do you think she is being lied to by others? Or do you think the teacher was hospitalized for several days but just didn't need to be.

I don't understand why some people are so skeptical of this claim.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

207. well....

being as there is a concerted effort to make marijuana out to be much worse than it is, that is why i doubt it. i don't understand how marijuana alone could have such an effect on the man.

so to answer your question directly with one of your choices, i lean towards: "the teacher was hospitalized for several days but just didn't need to be"

that is of course assuming that marijuana alone was responsible for his condition.

is there any information on why it effected him in such a manner? It would clear alot up for me.

also the story says he was hospitalized for a "few days" not several. how many days is a "few"?

[RememberTheCoup]

214. Didn't you read the article?

The teacher had narcolepsy. Whether or not this was common knowledge to the students is not known from the article. And I really don't think that hospitals and insurance companies keep patients hospitalized for longer than is necessary in order to create false perceptions about marijuana use.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

219. i did read the article

but it did not explain 'why' marijuana would have such pronounced effect on an individual with narcolepsy.
we are both entitled to our opinions about the incident, but neither one of us have the facts, all we have is some article with little detail. i agree, i believe it is silly for hospitals and insurance companies to keep patients hospitlized for longer than necessary in order to create a false perception. however, the article did not say how long the patient was kept in the hospital, for all we know a "few days" is being admitted one afternoon, then staying the night, then leaving the next day.

the bottom line is: we do not have the details. read it however you want.

[JohnLocke]

220. He was narcoleptic; pot has unusual effects on those with narcolepsy.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

222. what effects does it have?

i am curious as to the physiological effects marijuana causes narcoleptics and why it does such.

edit: i can't find any decent documentation googling. any help would be nice.

[JohnLocke]

225. Well...

The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_medical/disorders/narcolep_doc.htm?format=printable">describes narcolepsy as "a disabling neurological disorder of sleep regulation that affects the control of sleep and wakefulness. It may be described as an intrusion of the dreaming state of sleep (called REM or rapid eye movement sleep) into the waking state. Symptoms generally begin between the ages of 15 and 30. The four classic symptoms of the disorder are excessive daytime sleepiness, cataplexy, sleep paralysis, and hypnagogic hallucinations." In other words, narcolepsy causes abnormal sleep patterns, which are treated with stimulants. The opposite of stimulants are depressants. Since pot is a depressant, it seems that taking pot would cause narcoleptics to have their symptoms exacerbated to a dangerous, life-threatening level. I'm not a doctor, that's just what it seems like to me.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

226. cool, thanks for the info.

how is narcoleptic sleep different from normal sleep? ie. why would it be more dangerous for a narcoleptic to be 'put to sleep' by a depressant vs. his regular sleep. i always figured sleep is sleep. i am curious as to how it would harm the persons body. i am not trying to be contrary, i am just interested in the details.

i think i remember seeing/reading something about a certain chemical in the brain that is basically responsible for keeping us awake, it was hypothisized that this chemical is lacking in narcolpetics.

edit: i think this was it, a neurotransmitter called 'orexin'
here is a linke to a show's transcript about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/narcolepsytrans.shtml

[RamblingRose]

228. My mother has narcolepsy and cataplexy. She cannot drink alcohol, and I

can't imagine what smoking pot would do to her.

Snip from the link above:
"Gary's collapses are what scientists call a cataplectic attack: a sudden and total loss of muscle control causing complete paralysis. He could hear and see everything, but couldn't move a single muscle and when doctors studied cases like his a pattern emerged. The attacks were triggered by emotions: happiness, anger or sadness."

Cataplexy is very serious, and people often mistake the symptoms for someone being drunk. It was very embarrassing as a child, as my mom could not control her emotions, and would lose control of her muscles and almost collapse. I cannot leave her alone with my girls cause she cannot stay awake and watch them. She has been on Ritalin as long as I can remember. I don't know what the effects would be of Ritalin combined with pot, but I do think it could be very serious.

I have lived with a narcoleptic, and am someone who has smoked pot. I would NEVER let my mom smoke pot!!!

If you have any other questions about narcolepsy, I'm sure my mom will be happy to answer them. Also, thanks for the bbc link. I'll share that info with her.