Massive explosion in US base in Kirkuk

[Kipper58]

Just announced on Channel 4 News here in UK - Rocket hit arms store in US base - details to follow.

[sniffa]

1. i immediateLy thought

this was in afghanistan. sometimes i can't teLL these cities apart.

[KoKo]

15. Here's a map of Iraq and description of Kirkuk. While we wait for news,

it's good to know where it is.


City in Iraq with about 730,000 inhabitants (2002 estimate), near the foot of the Zagros Mountains, about 350 metres above sea level, in the Kurdish region of Iraq, and about 230 km north of Baghdad.
Kirkuk is the largest city in one of Iraq's most important oil producing areas. Oil pipelines run from Kirkuk to the coastal cities of Tripoli in Lebanon and Yamurtalik in Turkey. The region around Kirkuk has also a rich agricultural output like grains and fruit. Sheep are raised here, and the meat is sold from Kirkuk. In town, textile manufacturing is one of the most important industries.
Kirkuk's population is a mixture of Kurdish, Assyrian, Turkomen and Arab origin. The majority are Sunni Muslims, but Kirkuk has also a sizeable community of Christians of the Nestorian branch.
Kirkuk is an old city, with ruins as old as 3,000 years. There are several historical monuments, with the citadel situated on a natural mound, as the focal point.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/kirkuk.htm






http://havenworks.com/world/iraq/maps/iraq-map.htm

[wellst0nev0ter]

2. So Much For The Kurdish JEWEL of The Bush Doctrine

having sustainable peace

[Just Me]

3. Oh, shit. n/t

[maddezmom]

4. here's a link

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=1&u=/ap/20040602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_explosions

[Kipper58]

7. BBC News 24 now reporting Katyusha missile

According to Reuters reporter on the scene. Not yet on BBC website - link will follow ASAP

[nycmjkfan]

8. ?

What's a Katyusha missile?

[Kipper58]

10. Info here -

http://www.veteranen.info/~cedarsouthlebanon/kat/kateng.htm

[Kipper58]

17. BBC website now has story -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3771551.stm

[MidwestTransplant]

18. They come from Iran I believe. Syria and Hezbollah use them.

[htuttle]

20. Nope

They are a fairly common Russian muntion dating back to the Soviet era. Iraq had it's own fairly large supply of them. They were deployed in over 50 countries.

So no, it's not proof that either Syria or Hezbollah or Iran is involved in the attack, if that is what you were getting at.

[MidwestTransplant]

22. Didn't know the Russians made them. Wasn't suggesting that

Iran or Syria were involved, only that the weapons could have been smuggled in. If Russia originally made them it makes sense all of their client states in the ME would have them too. I only know that Syria and Hezbollah get them from Iran.

[alfredo]

25. If bush had allowed enough soldiers to secure the munition

arsenals, and secure the borders, such events would be rare.

[Poiuyt]

28. Sucg events would be even more rare if

we hadn't invaded Iraq in the first place.

[Bandit]

31. How do you secure something from a missle?

:shrug:

[NickB79]

39. I think he meant securing them so arms couldn't be stolen

From the ammo depots. From what I've read, there are dozens of ammo depots, some covering square miles of land each, that are essentially unguarded. Missiles, explosives, bombs, RPG rounds, bullets, all are coming from these depots.

[alfredo]

51. Thanks. Even our gang fights back in the sixties

were better planned, it appears.

[paulk]

37. for all you history buffs -

The Soviet Union first deployed Katyusha rockets during World War Two.
The Red Army immediately nicknamed the new weapon "Katyusha" after a popular Russian song at the time, which was about a young woman pining after her betrothed, who was off to war. The name Katyusha is a diminutive of "Katherine".

The Germans called them "Stalin's Organ" because of the distinctive sound they made.

[VolcanoJen]

5. On CNN now... no initial reports of injuries.

CNN confirms the explosion was at a US arms dump in Kirkuk.

[daleo]

11. They rarely report injuries or deaths right away

So I would not assume anything just yet, based on CNN.

[VolcanoJen]

14. I'd say most DUers don't assume anything they hear on CNN!

:D :D :D

CNN is Bad News,
Jennifer

[TahitiNut]

32. The base's ammo dump would be isolated.

It's ALWAYS a target for mortars or rockets. Hell, the VC nailed ammo dumps fairly regularly with few US casualties.

[nolabels]

36. Must of been a piss poor set up though

Letting a rocket take it out means they must not of dug it in. I feel sorry for them kids over there, these folks running the thing are such idiots.

http://www.ww2pacific.com/friendly.html
Pacific War, WW2
Friendly Fire.


Friendly fire is an oxymoron. It means one unit firing upon another unit from the same side. War is deadly. There were casualties from mistakes of identify. In combat, all but your nearest buddies become a treat, and even buddies have been killed in a fire fight. A PT boat on patrol in enemy waters is likely to be attacked by Army aircraft searching for enemy in the same waters. The PT boat may have to drive off the aircraft with machine gun fire. It has happened: that story was my first exposure to the concept of friendly fire. In the reoccupation of Kiska, Alaska, to retake that island from the Japanese, 35,000 US Army and Navy units along with Canadian attacked and fought for three days in fogbound crags suffering 25 killed, 31 wounded. The Japanese had already evacuated their 5,000 men from the island. All the fighting was between friendly units.

Ease of combat identification is a trade off. The bright red coats of the Tory infantry identified them to their own artillery, but were certainly easy targets of colonial marksmen. Modern units hiding in radio silence can understandably be considered hostile.

The anti-war press made much of friendly fire casualties in Vietnam, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and now Iraq. A proximate cause can always be found in the rational aftermath and a guilty party pilloried. Yet, war remains a hell on earth. It is fought in under pressure of imperfect information with the urgency where one must kill or be killed. The faster one destroys the enemy, the fewer friendly lives will be lost. If the odds are 50/50 that the unit you are facing is enemy, do you fire or not? 80/20? 98%? After the battle, military statisticians with computers might be able to make a reasoned decision; prosecutors certainly can. But they had neither a threat nor a trigger.

The number of acceptable friendly deaths has been reduced and must continue to be. In WWI, going over the top entailed an acceptable risk from ones' own supporting artillery of 15% in order to keep the enemy from machine gunning the troops (100% fatal) as they advanced through no-mans land.
(snip)

[TahitiNut]

40. There're some very real limits to how effective/realistic ...

... it is to "dig in" the ammo dump. Things change. Units move. The amount and power of munitions is such that it gets nearly impossible to keep one cache from lighting up another adjacent cache. If every cache were that isolated, a major munitions dump could cover hundreds of acres. Something that size takes more time and effort to create than is worth it. It's better to have multiple distrubuted dumps and good supply and distribution. Remember, some of these dumps have all kinds of very potent munitions. Artillery, demolition, mines, tactical rocketry, napalm, etc. It ain't just bullets.

[nolabels]

55. Logistics and Signal Corps

I am only extrapolating by means of the rest of the poor planing and doing things on the cheap from Brown & Root or the promoting of yes men done by Bushco.

Done my share of walking the perimeter of them enough to know you just don't pile them in somewhere. But who knows what the hell goes on over there. Between keeping things covered up just for the plain political reasons put the regular G.I. at risk alone. The ordinary of military operations dictates of protecting these things were probably undermined even for them reasons. By simple logic you can only cover and hide so many things till everything becomes vulnerable.

Having heard about the treatment for executive type washrooms for the generals out in the field I am sure things have been compromised for the wrong reasons.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20030805-9999_1n5bomb.html#
Officials confirm dropping firebombs on Iraqi troops
Results are 'remarkably similar' to using napalm

By James W. Crawley
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

August 5, 2003

American jets killed Iraqi troops with firebombs – similar to the controversial napalm used in the Vietnam War – in March and April as Marines battled toward Baghdad.

Marine Corps fighter pilots and commanders who have returned from the war zone have confirmed dropping dozens of incendiary bombs near bridges over the Saddam Canal and the Tigris River. The explosions created massive fireballs.


Mark 77 Firebomb
"We napalmed both those (bridge) approaches," said Col. Randolph Alles in a recent interview. He commanded Marine Air Group 11, based at Miramar Marine Corps Air Station, during the war. "Unfortunately, there were people there because you could see them in the (cockpit) video.

"They were Iraqi soldiers there. It's no great way to die," he added. How many Iraqis died, the military couldn't say. No accurate count has been made of Iraqi war casualties.
(snip)

[htuttle]

6. Oh no!

They've blown up the rest of our bullets!

[KoKo]

9. Don't worry. Congress will do an "emergency" appropriations for more,

and it will help our "unemployment" numbers. sigh...

[htuttle]

12. From what I've read, it's not the money that is the problem

The issue is that there simply aren't any extra bullets to be had right now.

[krkaufman]

27. Right. Need 1.5 billion per year; can only make 1.2 billion

So we're *already* looking for new sources of bullets.

Currently, all our bullets apparently come from a single source in Independence, Missouri -- which can only produce 1.2 billion bullets per year, 300 million short of the current requirement.

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthtribune/2004/05/27/business/8771670.htm

Alliant Techsystems is churning out 1.2 billion bullets per year at the Army-owned plant it runs in Independence, Mo. -- but it's already working 24 hours a day. So the Army has given contracts for 70 million rounds each to Israel Military Industries Ltd. and the Winchester unit of Olin Corp., said Lt. Col. Matthew Butler, who buys bullets for all branches of the armed forces through the Army.

[samsingh]

33. its unpatriotic to hoard bullets

all hunters or citizens with guns and ammo are now officially unpatriotic. these could be used to protect the homeland.

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Maybe the freepers

can organize a bullet donation. I'm sure some of those guys have fairly large stockpiles.

[KoKo]

24. "Win the War Donate your Bullets!" Somebody should definitely post it

over there in Freeperville. After all they want to compare this to WWII, then they need to make some sacrifices. Sheesh...while they're at it they can "hug their neighbor" as Bush says.

[VolcanoJen]

16. LOL huttle!! (n/m)

:+

[bleedingheart]

29. snort!

[PaDUer]

34. Great---send ALL the troops

home NOW!

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. So the candy and flowers

have now grown rocket engines?

::rolls eyes:: the only good thing is that most ammo depots
are not that close to the troops... so I pray casualties will be
somewhat light.

Damn so now bush will come out and tell us that this is just
another sign of how much we are loved by all in the region?

[bullimiami]

19. maybe they were just

trying to get the us soldiers dancing in the streets like bush said would be going on.

[Claire Beth]

23. yup! n/t

[MGKrebs]

26. Wow! We're really making progress now!

This HAS to be taken as a good sign. The fact that they are desperately resorting to ROCKETS and attacking innocent ammunition dumps, when they KNOW that this will likely result in casualties, shows that they are now at the end of their rope, and victory is just around the corner.

But we must be vigilant. The days might get worse before they get better.. blah blah blah.

:eyes:


edit: "muct"? How the heck did I get a "c" instead of an "s"? Jeez.

[maddezmom]

30. Updated link: rockets flying and landing all over the base

KIRKUK, Iraq (Reuters) - Massive explosions rocked a major U.S. military base outside Kirkuk on Wednesday, shrouding the northern Iraqi city in smoke, after what police called a rocket strike on an arms store.



Shells and rockets screamed into the night sky over the base at the main airport for the oil hub.


The initial blast at around 10 p.m. (2 p.m. EDT) was followed by sirens on the base and mayhem that was still going on nearly two hours later.


"You can see rockets flying and landing all over the base," reporter Adnan Hadi said from a vantage point some 500 meters (yards) from the base's perimeter.

~snip~
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=716&e=13&u=/nm/20040602/ts_nm/iraq_kirkuk_dc

[Just Me]

35. Can we leave now? eom

[maryallen]

41. My son is in Kirkuk ...

He's scheduled to leave June 17 ...

I hope he makes it.

[Just Me]

42. Good Lord. So, do I, maryallen!!!

You and Mari333 are always in my thoughts.

[maryallen]

50. Thanks ...

I didn't know your son was in Kirkuk. I have read Mari333's about her son being in Iraq, but didn't know yours was, as well. Hopefully, they'll all return safely.

Regarding the "stop-loss" decree (further down the thread) -- The report I heard today referred to the Army. Bo (my son) is in the Air Force and they don't always do things the same way that the Army does. Their (AF) hardship tours are much shorter, usually 3 or 4 months at a time; however, after 6 months back at their home bases, they are eligible for another hardship tour. Bo has already completed two: Oman, at the beginning of Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan) and now, Iraq. So, the answer as to whether he might have to stay in Iraq longer, I don't know for sure.

[maddezmom]

43. maryallen, I'm so sorry

hope he makes it, too along with the rest of them. :hug:

[Barrett808]

46. Do you know if the latest stop/loss order will affect him? n/t

[Don_G]

38. No Patriot Missile Batteries Nearby?

Silly me, they're all at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue guarding a chicken-shite.

[frankieT]

54. well, patriot missiles

would do nothing against Katushas, which are closer to artillery than to missiles.
it's truly an amazing attack. so far, the largest weapons used by Iraqi resistants were RPG, mines, mortar.

[KoKo]

44. Kick...there's so much news from every source except CNN/MSNBC..

:kick:

[KoKo]

45. Has anyone heard anything yet? On the Network Nightly New? Whaterver

I can't believe all these sites are reporting this and there's such SILENCE! :shrug:

[maddezmom]

47. CNNI covered it, but nothing new

[KoKo]

48. This story must be BIG! No coverage...and the post is sinking on GD and

here. Yet...it's reported on Salon and most major foreign Newsites. Something is up, here...can't be bogus because too many Google links.

I've never seen a story like this die here on DU either...why? what's up? :shrug:

[Just Me]

49. Sometimes, no news is really bad news.

I haven't seen any further updates on damage or casualties.

[maddezmom]

52. all the reports end in "no reports of casualites", but earlier on CNNI

one of the anchors said a nearby neighborhood seemed to be in flames...not sure if it's valid or not, just passing it on.

[KoKo]

53. It's very werid. All the news reports and yet...no new news or mentions

except drips and drabs here and there on this post. There's something "afoot" as Sherlock would say. I've been on DU a long time, and never seen a story like this die so fast with so many links.

:-( :scared: Because look how many links there are!


Fire rages at US military base
02/06/2004 20:48 - (SA)
Print article email story

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Kirkuk - A huge blaze raged at a US military base in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk on Wednesday after insurgents hit the base's weapons storage area, police said.

"Unknown assailants fired mortars or missiles, hitting an arms depot at the airport in Kirkuk.

"The shells hit the storage area and there was a huge explosion at the base," said police chief Turhan Yussef.

Yussef said the initial explosion triggered a succession of blasts.

The base is regularly hit by mortar strikes and rebel attacks.

Explosions could still be heard almost one hour after the attack, which happened at about 22:30 (18:30 GMT), and heavy black smoke covered the night sky over the city, a correspondent said.

Sirens were heard initially going off at the base and a voice over loudspeakers was urging soldiers to go into bunkers.

The base is regularly hit by mortar strikes and rebel attacks.

The US military had no immediate comment of the attack on the base, where the landing strip is used for charter and military flights.

A civilian was found burnt to death with his hands tied to his back inside his car in the vicinity of the base, according to Yussef.

Separately, two Iraqi policemen were killed when unidentified assailants drove up next to them and showered them with gunfire.

Edited by Elmarie Jack
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1536790,00.html