Clark: Crank It Up

[goobergunch]

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark "appears to be getting close to throwing his stars into the 2004 Democratic presidential nominating contest," the National Journal reports.

more...http://politicalwire.com/archives/002710.html

[Voltaire99]

1. Dear retired generals: stay the hell out of politics. Thank you.

Better that these old killers content themselves by showing up on Fox and CNN to provide color commentary on our wars. Plenty of pension-padding opportunities there.

[halley]

2. Agreed

[Trajan]

6. The FACT that Clark is a retired General ...

cannot hide the fact that he is a masterful student of philosophy, having received a Masters at Oxford under a Rhodes Scholarship ... as well as graduating TOP of his class as West Point ...

This man is SO well read and learned that he simply cannot be ranked amongst the other candidates: ... perhaps you speak rashly of another person .... THIS Clark is WELL SUITED for leading the US .....

Clark is an excellent choice: ..

[JoFerret]

18. An excellent choice - perhaps

but he will be demonised as "the perfumed prince".

[NNN0LHI]

9. Every Republican I know says the same thing as you

They are scared to death that there is no way their AWOL bunker boy can beat him.

Don

[indictrichardperle]

30. i dont trust Clark

hes made some carefully calculated statements, which i liked, but i think theres alot we dont know. I think he has made some pretty neo-con like statements on the middle east.

Im not against him necessarily, not yet.

[private_ryan]

10. a professional politician is better, right?

get in and get in soon.

[Liberal Veteran]

15. Should Gen. George Washington taken that advice?

Just wondering?

[Sandstorm]

17. Nice stereotype there

Sound like a Republican. Calrk is a well-qualified, and extremely intelligent individual. Look through his bio before you dismsss him like that.

[schultzee]

31. I don't agree ....he could pull in the pro-war dems and he is sensible

because he was against Bush going to the war pre-emptively.

[OBrien]

33. Clark

dear V stay out of politics

[neuvocat]

34. Dear citizen: please stay the hell out of the voting booth. Thank you.

Brought to you by the BFEE to help streamline our election process.

[alfredo]

37. He is not a chickenhawk

He is also well liked by a fellow Oxford alumni, Clinton.


I would rather have a vet in charge than a chickenhawk that knows nothing about being a soldier.

If Bush stays in much longer he will destroy our military.

[Voltaire99]

50. Even deceitful imperial wars don't dull your taste for the boot, do they?

I had imagined that calling for military leadership at a time when the nation fights a war based on lies and has turned the planet against it with its imperialism might strike even the most callow person here as, well...ironic, to say the least.

But irony hasn't invaded every precinct in the Democratic Party.

[tameszu]

51. You conflate a leader who has military background

with military leadership. From Thucydides to Eisenhower, history has been filled with men of military backgrounds who have been much better than their civilian counterparts at respecting the line that separates military from the social virtues.

Clark was pushed out of his SACEUR command early in part because his worldview was too liberal and too multilateralist for the Pentagon.

Clearly, the last thing America and the Democratic Party need to defeat Bush and put the country back on the right track of making allies and respecting international cooperation is a Democratic candidate with very strong defense credentials and an internationalist outlook.

As for callowness and irony, I'm I don't entirely follow. It seems to me that often the young and immature have a very good sense of irony--it's arguably their primary redeeming feature...

[ewagner]

3. Time for fun & Games

to begin..........

[kanrok]

4. Clark

Gen. Clark is KKKArl Rove's worst nightmare. I look forward to seeing him throw his hat into the ring. 4-Star General, Rhodes Scholar, from a Southern state, what more could we ask for? Anyone but Bush. Still, before I get all googly-eyed, I need to hear more about his positions.

[DrBB]

7. He's more progressive than Dean

...on a lot of issues. I can't cite chapter and verse off hand, but if you look into it I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[schultzee]

32. He is also honest and not a warmonger like Bush.

Only fools like Bush who have no idea what war is really like are willing to say dumb things like "bring em on" and put on jump suits that squeeze their balls and look like idiots while they are craven cowards.

[bvar22]

5. Who said....?

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold, and are not clothed..."

I wish our Democratic leadership and professional politicians would speak like this.

[Julien Sorel]

8. It must have been Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich.

No chance that it could have been a retired general, because military people only know one thing, killing, only think about one thing, killing, only have an interest in one thing, killing. Retired military people do not make speeches warning against the military industrial complex, or point out the destructive nature of military spending. It isn't as if, having seen firsthand the barbarism of war, they know better than anyone that it should be a last resort.

The so-called 'father of our country' was nothing but a killer, who relentlessly sought to start new wars, so that he would always be in his own environment: killing.

[Emillereid]

12. Also, it was retired General

Eisenhower who warned us about the growing menace he named the military-industrial complex.

[TacticalPeek]

47. Ike's original speech read "military-industrial-Congressional complex",,,

because he wisely recognized, as had Willie Sutton, the importance of "where the money is", the enabling link between the military and industrial.

He probably left out the Congressional reference to tone it down, like only so much medicine per spoonful.

However, generals in war routinely set soberingly crucial priorities and strategy, so the omission could also be viewed as a flanking maneuver.

[stanwyck]

36. How wrong you are

"retired military people don't make speeches warning against the military industrial complex?" The greatest speech EVER warning the U.S. about the military industrial complex was made by Dwight David Eisenhauer, retired general and President of the United States. Read it. Amazingly prophetic. He speaks of the dangers of getting into wars just to satisfy industry. Really. You should know this speech. It's one of the most famous in American history.

[ixion]

53. not true

many ex military people have come out in opposition to the military industrial complex. Here are two:
Hunter S. Thompson
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

There are many more.

[Julien Sorel]

54. OK, enough's enough. Sarcasm:

Function: noun
Text: a savage bitter form of humor usually intended to hurt or wound <a speech full of personal jabs and sarcasm>
Synonyms acerbity, causticity, corrosiveness, sarcasticness
Related Word humor, irony, raillery, satire, wit; jest, repartee; gibe, lampooning; mockery, ridicule, scorn, sneering; acrimony, invective; rancor, sharpness

A better word would be Irony:

The use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance.

[Benhurst]

11. It sounds like

Dwight David Eisenhower; five-star general and president of the United States.

He also said:

"I think that people want peace so much that one of
these days governments had better get out of the
way and let them have it."

August 1959, in Public
Papers of Presidents 1959
(1960)

[Prodemsouth]

14. Its good to see the thinkers are not in short supply on this thread.

Only two defeatist elitist, so far. What? You want spoil their fun sitting around all day bitching on a web site.

[bvar22]

16. Dwight Eisenhower 4/16/53

Retired general and Republican President of the US.

I'm glad I'm old enough to have some perspective. At one time the Republican Party was led by honest men with integrity. I may have disagreed with their policies, but respected most of them. That was before the Nixon era. Now the Repubs are lead by vicious greedy psychopaths who appeal to the lowest and most bigoted common denominators of the Human race. I find nothing to respect in today's Republican Party, and, with a few exceptions, have steadily been losing respect for the the Democratic Party as a whole.....no co-ordinated opposition to insane agenda of the bush* evil machine.

I welcome Clark to the primaries, though will support another candidate to be disclosed later.

[bahrbearian]

21. Eisenhower

[roguevalley]

26. Eisenhower?

*

[robbedvoter]

13. Clark - the kind of general the Pentagon hated - read The Clinton Wars

for more backround. I for one will be signing for the meet-ups if he jumps in! And now, after the emercence of the lies that lead to war, it's a great time for the guy who said that the war on Iraq was one of the greatest blunders since the cold war.

[juajen]

19. I need to know more about him, for instance

anybody know anything about a Mrs. Clark? I am really tired of a do-nothing, deaf and dumb First Lady. This has got to be the most boring White House Administration in history; no parties, no state dinners, no press conferences, no peeks into the children's lives, etc. Of course, I guess they're just too busy scaring hell out of everybody to understand that the American people actually enjoy watching the personal lives of their presidents and the Washington scene. I'm sure the Washingtonians are sick of it too. Talk about a dull administration!

[booksenkatz]

28. Hey, what about

them big ole pig roasts down at the "ranch" in Crawford? What about the twins' drunken binges, fake I.D. cards, and court appearances? Woo-hoo, talk about a fun administration!
:crazy:

[Nashyra]

45. Go to

http://www.wesleyclark.us it is a very comprehensive site with articles going back to 95

[inthecorneroverhere]

20. Please, Gen. Clark, do it!

I hope he enters the election. He is one of the few who can win. :dem:

[LEFTofLEFT]

22. MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX

Is this man smart enough to fool the left?

He says the things that many on the left want to hear - is this by chance?

I would want to see past actions that support his words.

I say let him prove himself as sec. of def before we support him for higher office.

[private_ryan]

24. he doesn't need 100% of the votes

some people would rather have us dismantle the entire armed forces so an ex-general is not going to convince all the anarchists, communists, Marxists etc.

You can't make everyone happy, some people just can't be convinced.

[magatte]

27. he may be talking up, but it is the political game, ain't it

He is smart. VERY smart. And absolutely cold blooded and ruthless, as well. Yet, I trust him. Wesley Clark come guide this country out of this mess.

[MaineDem]

23. He'll make one hell of a great VP (n/t)

.

[dansolo]

43. Secretary of Defence would be better

n/t

[sendero]

25. If he is gonna run...

... he better do it soon IMHO. Other candidates are gaining momentum while he bides his time. Popping in at the last minute has worked sometimes before, but every election is different....

[zekeson]

29. I haven't decided if I will support him or not

I like a lot of what he says, I like his elocution, his poise and intelligence. I like the cut of his jib, Smithers. :) I will be interested as he has more to say.

All that said, it is in no too late. Have you noted the attention span of the American public? Hell, I wonder if July next wouldn't be too late. No one besides those who would read a board like this are paying attention yet. And, of course, look when Clinton entered in 1991. He has plenty of time.

[Mz Pip]

35. Gaining momentum?

Like who?? Other than Dean, all the other candidates seem to be stalled. No one seems to have a lock on this. Even Dean.

Clark will enter this race as a fresh face. Besides, other than some of us who has really taken the time to watch any of the debates. Nobody is excited about this race. Clark could just ignite a spark.

MzPip
:dem:

[Pastiche423]

38. A lock on what?

Clark is not running for president, as of August 9, 2003. Wtf does he have a lock on?

The spark has already been ignited by Governor Dean.

[Mz Pip]

41. Dean has no lock on this

He's the only candidate who seems to have any traction but his support is not broadbased.

That said I will support him if he is the Dem Candidate. I just don't think he can beat Bush.

MzPip
:dem:

[Pastiche423]

42. My, my my

your denial of Dean's broadbased support is enlightening.

Their is a huge difference in Dean and Clark.

Dean is a Democratic candidate for president.

Clark is not.

[saoirse]

48. True, but...

That could change at any time. And it's looking
like it will.

Nothing wrong with having a bunch of candidates
duking it out - whoever's strongest will get the
honor of challenging Smirk.

And no matter who that is, they can count on my
complete support.

Even (sigh) Lieberman.:D

[Pastiche423]

49. How is it looking that way?

Clark has not declared his affliation or whether is he running. Does he have any money? If he does, where does it come from? Is it Democratic based or repug based? He has stated both sides of the aisle have showed interest.

[tameszu]

52. Reports from aides...

...have indicated that Clark is ready to step in--probably right around Labor Day. I would say the odds are now better than 50-50. But I'm not asking you to support him. We just think it's cool that a person who might energize a lot of people to participate in the primaries and get people who wouldn't normally vote Democrat to do so might step into the race...and, of course, that you'll keep an open mind, even if you've already committed to a candidate.

Clark will only run as a Democrat. His close family members have confirmed this. His personality and thinking excludes running for a third party or spending resources on hopeless causes. His worldview on most issues is distinctly left of centre and he has been an extensive critique of Bush. His family leans Dem and he has only participated in politics as Democrat. He spoken to DNC leaders but not RNC ones, and has personally consulted on this decision with his friend Bill Clinton, who said that he would make a good contribution to the race. I'm not sure if it gets much clearer than this.

Does he have money? Well, not that any that can be legally registered yet. But his supporters (with whom he has no formally connection and who have acted without him asking) have collected around $400K in pledges and have raised enough money to set up and run several significant offices, hire advisors, and develop an impressive Internet and radio campaign. You can ask www.draftclark.com where their money comes from.

Clark has said that both sides of the aisle have shown interest in him because (i) one of the key "Draft Clark" leaders has a site called "Republicans for Clark." This fellow does not expect that Clark will step in as a Republican (in fact, one of the taglines on his site reads: "It's safe to vote for a Democrat? Would you have voted for Eisenhower if he were a Democrat?); (ii) Clark is aware that he has huge crossover appeal. His background and profile make him very well suited to attracting conservatives and moderates who want to be strong on defense but who didn't like the war.

[Nashyra]

39. I hoping by mid August he gets in the race

People who label him a "killer" will not consider him no matter how good a candidate he might be, they are what you called close minded and one dimensional. So far I have followed all he has had to say and I have watched him closely, he has a progressive message and knows national security and diplomacy. He also has a broad appeal. I think he would make a fine partner with Dean, Kerry or Edwards at the top of the ticket or as veep. I think he the Dems key to outing *

I will hard for Clark in the primaries if he runs and if does not get the nomination then I will work hard for the candidate that is. Nothing is more important than removing *

[Donna Zen]

40. Clark Seton Hall Speech

Rather, yours is the daily responsibility of citizenship, carried on through open debate and exercised at the ballot box on a hundred different issues and candidacies.  And this will require dissent, dissent that cannot be silenced through charges of comforting the enemy without surrendering the very freedoms we say we are fighting for. 

Note: This speech was delivered long before a draft Clark movement.

http://academic.shu.edu/commencement/highlights_2002/clark.html

[Nashyra]

44. The bashing of the candidates and would be

candidates is so unappealing. Those that are so harh make their own candidate less attractive. I was impressed when Clark had a chance to take a swipe at Dean during one of his interviews and he did not do it. I think more of a candidate or should I say would be candidate that is confident enough in his own views and values that he does not have to mock another candidate to make himself look good. Like wise here it is not necessary to badmouth someone elses choice to make your choice of candidate look good.

[saoirse]

46. Sounds like he's going to run!

This is the best possible news.

There is nobody who is better able to be the standard-bearer for
resistance to Bush and his gang of looters. It's gonna come down
to Bush and his Evil Empire versus Clark and the restoration of
the American republic.

People are yearning for an alternative to this spoiled brat of
a madman - and Clark provides the starkest contrast possible. He's
articulate, smart, attractive, and courageous - while Bush is none
of those things.

Karl Rove must be soiling himself.

[goforit]

55. Well it is a hell of lot better than the chosen royals in the DLC!!!!

I still prefer Kucinich and DEAN ,

If Clark does run well he may oust Bush for good.

[Nashyra]

56. I watched live on C-SPAN

the two founders of draftwesleyclark.com it was a very good segment, what I had not realized is that the founders are 1 Republican and 1 Democrat. They both seem to be saying that he will be running as a Democrat and it reinforces my belief that it is a calculated move on the part of Clark to not reveal his party affliation so that there is optimal exposure to his goals which are progressive. There are so many people both left and right that will not listen to a person of the other party and for the most part I can not stand to listen to a Repug because most are shrill about the party line, but then they do have moderates like Chaffee and Jeffords before he became an independent. I think this approach makes it "safe" for moderate Repugs who have no choice in the Repug party to cross party lines and get involved with a progressive candidate.

I hope Clark throws his hat in the ring soon.