Some soldiers cry foul over medals

[Kadie]

Some soldiers cry foul over medals
By Pamela Martineau -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PDT Wednesday, May 26, 2004


snip...
For most members of the armed forces, the Bronze Star is a symbol of valor and meritorious achievement that is awarded to the nation's finest soldiers.

But some soldiers across the country - and locally - are complaining that too many of the military medals being handed out to soldiers in Iraq are going to people who don't deserve them.

"I feel you have to do something exceptional to earn an award, going above and beyond your job," said Sgt. Dain Miskamen of Auburn, who served with the Sacramento-based California National Guard 270th Military Police Company in Iraq. "But now we've got individuals who put themselves in for a Bronze Star just because they can."

Too often, the critics say, the medals are being given to troop commanders, rather than lower-ranking soldiers placed in harm's way on a near daily basis.

"We've got one kid who saved two lives and actually got nothing," Miskamen said.



much more.... http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/9430246p-10354512c.html

[Dover]

1. Are they running low on incentives to keep the commanders in Iraq

or what's the deal?

[Oaklander]

10. Pretty standard fare, actually.

It's seen by promotion boards as a career enhancing award so many career officers are "earning" them in order to further their career. Nothing new, really. I worked for a Navy Captain, serving as the senior aid to a four-star Admiral, in Naples who was awarded the Bronze Star for sitting behind his desk during the NATO bombing of Serbia. He was never in combat or jeopardy of any sort, unless you call paper cuts a combat wound.

[Luvpurp]

2. Is anyone surprised of this in Dubya's America?

In Dubya's America those at the top of the chain take credit for the work their peons and blame all failures on their peons as well.

[Salviati]

3. it's just like their economic policy...

Socialized risk and privitized profit...

[mmm]

6. I love that phrase: Socialized risk and privatized profit

this is what Bush is all about

[kimchi]

15. Great phrase!

Gotta remember that one.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. a NEW medal flap?

Oh well.... it only helps Kerry in the end.

[saigon68]

5. It's Medal CREEP

Some of the military---Certain officers in particular have so many medals festooned on their uniforms.

THEY LOOK LIKE TIN-HORNED SOUTH AMERICAN DICTATORS

[underpants]

7. In '92 we had a platoon Sgt. (E-8) who refused to wear his Bronze star

He was an E-8 but there was no "top" spot for him so they gave him a platoon, he was in another troop in our squadron. We had a dress greens inspeciton and the Capt. (all happy to have a Vietnam Vet in his troop) asked where his Bronze star was and the E8 said," I refuse to wear it they gave them out for Desert Storm like candy so it doesn't seem to mean as much as it did, I guess"

Something like that. The Capt. apparently turned ghost white when the E8 went onto to tell him how slack ass his unit was and the whole Army had become for that matter.

[saigon68]

8. I can believe that

A Bronze Star isn't meant to be chump change.

They (THE ARMY) gave one to Jessika Lynch. That frosted my ass.

[OneOneBravo]

13. 2 kinds of Bronze Star Medals (BSM)

With the "V" it's for valor or combat.

Without the "V" it's for meritorious service. EVERY Army soldier who was awarded the Combat Infantryman's Badge (CIB) or the Combat Medic Badge in WW II, was awarded the BSM after the war, to put this in perspective. Many only had the CIB or perhaps a Purple Heart, so it meant something to them ( My uncle was one ). Any Army infantryman worth his salt, including yours truly, will tell you that the CIB and the Purple Heart are the ones that count.

Major difference.

The BSM w. "V" ( Valor in the Army, the "Combat Distinguising Device" or "Combat V" in the USN/USMC/USCG, not sure on the USAF ) means less the higher you go up in rank. It was often awarded as a "downgrade" when a Silver Star recommendation was not approved.

The Meritorious Service Medal was created during the Vietnam War as too many BSM's were being awarded then, as now, for just doing your job.

BSM's were and are often given to Commanding Officers at the end of tours.

The Air Medal was a bit more of an "honest" decoration - you got it for a certain number of missions, combat hours, or combat helicopter assaults - could also have the "V" or could be awarded as an individual award, often when a recommendation for the Distinquished Flying Cross was not approved.

The whole "Awards & Decorations" thing is and always will be a collosal can o' worms - you kind of have to read the individual citation and know the story to judge the award.

The attack on Kerry's decorations is a "dog that won't hunt" - it ain't going nowhere. The "B" folks will try just about anything, 'cause they're a bit scared, as they should be.

[TahitiNut]

16. Yup.

[Bandit]

18. CIB is worn on top of all other medals including Medal of Honor

Nothing is worn above a CIB and medals are worn in order of ranking.

EDITED BY ADMIN TO REMOVE IMAGE WHICH WAS CAUSING A SECURITY POP-UP.

[saigon68]

19. Thank you -- You are absolutely correct

I guess Jessika got hers as an EOT (End of Tour) gift.
I know lots of people (ex-soldiers) who never got anything-- but then again, to be alive and get back was worth it in itself

without that I would not be here raising HELL.

[newyawker99]

25. Hi OneOneBravo!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[0007]

24. Where did you find or hear this quote by Gillepsie?

'Unfortunately for angry Democrats like Tim Johnson, Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy, terrorists aren't responsible for the deaths of U.S. soldiers, their commander-in-chief is.' " -RNC Chair Ed Gillepsie

Another classic.

The one that has always stuck with me is the one junior made right after 911.

"If ya see a person you don't know getting into an airplane (cropduster) he doesn't own. Please call the police." -- President George W. Bush

[jmowreader]

29. Now how do you do that?

If you don't know the person, how do you KNOW it's not his airplane?

[MaineDem]

9. My first thought, and I apologize for conspiracy-thinking...

They, the BFEE, are trying to make Kerry's medals look inconsequential.

It demeans all those who earned these medals legitimately. It stinks really.

I don't like thinking this way.

[sandnsea]

26. Mine too

Sucks thinking the worst of your fellow citizens all the time. But there are such a bunch of fucktards in this country, I think we'd be foolish not to be suspicious.

[Tempest]

11. Non-Military personnel (contractors) also receiving Bronze Stars

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A22547-2004May12?language=printer


While on missions in Iraq last year, 35-year-old Todd Drobnick was
attacked by small-arms fire, grenades and makeshift bombs. Yet he
continued to go out day after day, until he died in a vehicle crash on
his way from one U.S. military base to another. For his loyalty and
dedication, he was posthumously awarded a Purple Heart and Bronze
Star.

Thousands of Americans in Iraq have received such honors, but
Drobnick's case was unusual: He wasn't a soldier. He was a private
contractor working with a translation company.

[Bandit]

21. Now that really sucks

I heard that they may rescind the award because he was not in the military. Probably happen the same day Cheney releases his energy task force records.

[maxrandb]

12. Let me give you a perfect example

Basically, the policy was that if you were a Commanding Officer of a unit that even remotely participated in Operation ENDURING FREEDOM (Afghanistan) then you got a Bronze Star. I know, because I processed some of the awards.

One of these was for the CO of an F-18 squadron. Here is what the SECNAVINST 1650.1G says about the Bronze Star.

"awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity with the Armed Forces of the United States, distinguishes him/herself on or after 7 December 1941 by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, NOT involving participation in aerial flight." (emphasis mine on the NOT).

Now, how a CO of a squadron, who's job it is to fly a plane, qualifies for a Bronze Star was beyond me, but that was the policy. If you were a CO, you got the BS. Pilots normally get the Air Medal, which they did, but this CO also got a BS, basically for being a CO.

Flying and landing an F18 or any plane on the deck of an aircraft carrier is pretty dangerous stuff, but to say that just because you were there and happened to fill the billet of CO you get one of the highest awards in the military, well.....I just held my noise and typed it.

Real hero's that left limbs on Omaha Beach, should justifiably be rolling over in their graves.

[Zech Marquis]

14. so if I was a an officer in charge of say...

the mes hall for officers at a post in or near Iraq, I'd get a bronze star just for being there, without dong anything really pecial.

Oh yeah, that's heoric :eyes:

and that civilian getting a Purple Heart?! :wow: Oh come on :argh:

[displacedtexan]

17. They handed them out like candy in Bush War I.

Why should Bush War II be any different?

[Twillig]

31. absolutely goddam right.

In my battalion all Platoon Sergeants and above got the BS medal in 'Bush War I.'

I, as a E-5 on the platoon leader's tank, got an ARCOM (army commendation medal) along with the E6 tank commanders.

Buhahaha!

I'd been an E5 for maybe 5 days before the ground 'attack.' (other guy got fired) Buahahahaha!

Anybody without some sort of medal was on somebody's shitlist somewhere.

The only medal worth a damn (ok. excluding purple heart and CMH) is the Soldier's Medal:

For heroism by those serving with the Army in any capacity that involves the voluntary risk of life under conditions other than those of conflict with an opposing armed force.

Established in 1926 and one of the Army's most distinguished awards, the Soldier's Medal denotes acts of heroism in a non-combat situation. It is awarded for such heroic actions on behalf of either fellow soldiers or civilians.

PS. I do thank George H.W. Bush, despite everything else he did, for not fucking up everything like DimSon has by 'conquering' Iraq.

[TrogL]

20. I got hit with a strange popup when I came into this thread

from www.perscomline.army.mil

:scared:

[saigon68]

22. SO DID I---- WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?

THEY CAN KISS MY ASS--- MOTHERFUCKERS

[Skinner]

23. It's okay.

Someone linked to an image over there. I edited out the link. We can all calm down now.

[Bandit]

27. Sorry about that I didn't realize it would cause a problem

:shrug: just another dumbshit thing I did.

[No Passaran]

28. I saw it first hand

I have to agree with everyone. After Operation Iraqi Freedom, all the officers and Senior NCOs were put in for a Bronze Star. None of our lower enlisted got anything higher than ARCOM. It's a shame. I think some of those soldiers deserved it since they were wounded and participated in more missions than some Senior NCOs (one of them) and officers (two of them) who did nothing and sometimes their whole platoon didn't even go on a mission because our Commander didn't think they could handle it.

Our Commander got a Silver Star and deserved it. He was amazing in every situation.

[OneOneBravo]

30. Original intent of the Bronze Star medal

http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/B/Bronze-Star-Medal.htm

I would note:

while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States"

The "with the military" is the clause that allows awards to civilians - it is not common, but is done. I would suggest that a civilian getting the award might well have deserved it more than many company and battalion commanders I once knew.

Joe Galloway, co-author of "We were soldiers once...and young", received a BSM for the Ia Drang as a UPI war correspondent.