Private Lynndie wants her abuse confession thrown out

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/196521p-169745c.html

Lawyers for one of the soldiers accused of abusing prisoners in Iraq said Monday they will ask a military judge to throw out her confession, because they contend military investigators pressed her to talk after she had asked for an attorney.

Pfc. Lynndie England is one of seven soldiers facing military charges in connection with the abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison. She appears in several of the most well-known photographs from the prison, including one where she is holding a leash attached to a collar around the neck of a naked prisoner.

One of England’s civilian lawyers, Rose Mary Zapor, said Army agents had violated England’s rights by questioning her after she had asked for an attorney. Zapor said England’s legal team would seek to have the confessions thrown out.

“She had invoked her right to counsel, and those statements are illegal. In a civilian court, those would be immediately suppressed,” Zapor told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Monday. Defendants in military courts have the same rights to lawyers that criminal defendants have in civilian courts.

[TahitiNut]

1. So, it's a question of "rights" huh?

D'oh! :eyes:

[wtmusic]

2. Turns out they beat it out of her

Ha! :D

[UpInArms]

3. I wonder if they tortured her to get her to confess

nah - they just denied her an attorney.

Torture? What would Lynddie know about that? :mad:

[Bridget Burke]

4. The more active her legal team gets.....

The more likely she's going to name some names.

Convicting half a dozen enlisted men & women is not enough--as richly as they may deserve it. "Only following orders" is not a good excuse. But let's see who gave those orders.

[mondo joe]

5. Good Headline for todays NEWS OF THE IRONIC

Is her defense that information retried by coercion is unreliable?

Or just that it violates some fundamental right?

[Shadder]

6. They violated her rights?

Well, she sure should be an expert in that field......

[Stew225]

7. This does not portend well for her

aspirations to matriculate at Smith College after her hitch.

[TahitiNut]

10. Maybe not, but Scripps College would take her.

:evilgrin:

[Rebellious Republican]

15. Bwahahaha.........

:toast:

[Bandit]

17. Curious about your AM

Did you receive it for CAs or hours in the air?

[Rebellious Republican]

22. Hey Bandit, here you go.........

Breast Insignia for Naval Aircrew
Navy officers and enlisted personnel wear various gold, silver or pewter insignia over the left breast to indicate special qualifications. Some insignia are worn above the ribbons; some are worn below. In this case they are worn above the ribbons on the dress uniform.

Naval Aircrewmen are enlisted personnel who perform duties in-flight as permanent (career) crewmembers and temporary non-crewmembers on a variety of Naval aircraft. The Naval Aircrew program is strictly a volunteer program - its members must remain volunteers for flight duty at all times. Permanent crewmembers usually remain in the Aircrew program for the length of their careers as long as they remain volunteers and qualified. All designated Naval Aircrewmen undergo formal training and must be NATOPS positionally qualified. Designated Aircrewmen (crewmembers) may be authorized Career Enlisted Flight Incentive Pay (CEFIP) and are authorized to wear the Aircrew breast insignia upon completion of all requirements.

Naval Aircrew wings were hard earned and not easily taken away. One of the proudest accomplishments of my life. I attended Naval Aircrew Candidate School at NAS Pensacola, it was not Navy Seal Training however some portions of the training was done by Seals. It was designed to be both mentally and physically challenging, and thats putting it mildly. Out of an initial 60 some odd students that entered only 28 of the original class members graduated together. After NACCS we still did not get our wings, we were sent to our perspective squadrons. Once we completed our NATOPS training and became very intimate with our assigned aircraft we then could pin on the NAVY WINGS of GOLD.

[Bandit]

24. I was referring to the Air Medal

You have an Air Medal displayed so it aroused my curiosity. In the Army there are a couple of ways to earn one. At least thirty years ago that was the case. You can earn one as an infantry soldier for a number of Combat Assaults. I think that number is three but not positive. You can also earn one as a crew member on an aircraft for a certain number of Combat Hours in the air. It used to be twenty-five Combat Hours. Then of course you can have a V-Device added to the award or some oak leaf clusters. It is a familiar award for me.

[Rebellious Republican]

27. Where do you see an Air Medal?

All but two are what we referred to as Geedunk in the Navy, the only two that I consider special are of coarse my Navy Wings of Gold and the Naval Expeditionary Medal, thats why I purposley placed the Expeditionary Medal out of order. I was in Beirut in 83, it has special meaning to me, but no Air Medal.
:shrug:

Navy Aircrew Breast Insignia


Naval Expeditionary Medal

Navy Unit Commendation

Meritorious Unit Com.

Navy E Ribbon

Good Conduct Medal

National Deffense Service Medal

SeaService Deployment Ribbon

Expert Pistol Shot Medal

[Bandit]

28. It may be a bit different

I thought I knew it well but :shrug: It appears the gold is slightly different color

[Rebellious Republican]

31. Ah, I see where the confusion lies.........

The above JPEG is what I have been using, it was a JPEG that I copied from a different source and is an artists rendition, yes I see the similarities. The rest are actual photo's from the chinfo site. Poor photo quality I might add, here are the photo's of the the two from the chinfo site, I included the link at the bottom, however notice the blue space in between the yellow bars. The artists rendition is actually more color correct then the chinfo photo of the Expeditionary photo. Now I understand, hope that helps to clear it up.

:toast:


Air Medal


Nav-Exp

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ribbons/navy_ribbons.html

[TahitiNut]

30. "Good Conduct Medal"?

:puke: I never got one of those. :evilgrin:

[Rebellious Republican]

32. I was in for ten and only recieved one, my first few years I was on

a fisrt name basis with the Skipper, I called him Captian at all the masts that I attended!

:toast:

[seemslikeadream]

33. May I ask the Rebellious Republican a question?

Did you ever grace the Great Lakes Naval Base? Maybe Club 42 or the officers club?

[Rebellious Republican]

35. Yes, I went to "Great Mistakes" for boot camp, never had the

opportunity to do Club 42. However I did do the Pink Pagoda upon graduation. I believe that was the name of the dive just outside the gate a little ways. They had some of the finest stale beer anywhere. Then I was off to A school in Pensacola, Fl. Yep,I felt sorry for those black shoes that were stuck there. Enginemen and Corpsman schools if I remember correctly.
:beer:

[hlthe2b]

8. Umm, what about the television interviews, the taped incident footage,

the still photos, and her own public admissions? Sort of seems her confession to military authorities would be rather superfluous.....

I know many here have sympathy for this woman, not wanting to see her take the blame for higher ups. While I too want to see that the Generals (and Rumsfeld) take any appropriate "hits," I dearly hope they throw the book at her(assuming there is no better defense than seems apparent to date). I have no sympathy for her and think a very strong message needs to be sent to her and all found to be guilty in this debaucle.

[lebkuchen]

9. John Walker Lindh should have had it so easy

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2002/04/13/story46355.asp

...as part of a written court filing, Lindh’s lawyers last month released a picture of him in Afghanistan, blindfolded, strapped to a stretcher and naked. Defence officials have said that while that photo may have appeared shocking, it was taken out of context because he was naked as part of his preparation for medical treatment.

In the newly-revealed incident, Lindh has an obscene, derogatory word written across his blindfold, a senior defence official said.

The Pentagon has repeatedly limited the media in the kind of photos it can take of prisoners from the war in Afghanistan on the argument that photos subjecting the prisoners to humiliation violate Geneva Convention provisions on treatment of prisoners.

The photos troops took of themselves with their prisoner were found when the Pentagon did a computer search for documents and other materials ordered by the court hearing charges against Lindh, another official said.

Existence of the photos were first reported on CBS Evening News, a television programme.

Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld said he did not know if the photos were being held at the Pentagon and that he hadn’t seen them.

‘‘You know, there’s hundreds of detainees, and about every day somebody says something,’’ he said in response to reporter’s questions.

‘‘I guess if you ask me when I got up in the morning - and we’ve got people being killed in the Mideast and we’ve got a war going on in Afghanistan - if I am going to change my schedule and go chasing after rumours on things like that, it’s unlikely,’’ he said in impromptu comments in a Pentagon hallway.

[seemslikeadream]

11. Abu Ghraib Soldiers Were Properly Trained

The soldiers at Abu Ghraib were following orders and were "properly trained." They were so proud of their training that they took pictures of it.


by Laura Santina
A young Marine told me that his unit's cadence chants were "Rape and pillage, burn the village," and his commanding officer described the training as "learning to kill without remorse."

If we call the pre-military training "humanizing," then we have to call the military training "dehumanizing." The training may work for the battleground, but it doesn't work for functioning for the rest of their lives within any society. Many soldiers who train to fight wars never recover from this state of dehumanization or from the war experience itself. I have uncles who were never able to talk about their war experiences, and another relative who became a hopeless alcoholic, unable to bear his own memories of war. According to the Department of Veteran Affairs, thirty-three percent of homeless men are Vietnam and Gulf War veterans. The Bureau of Justice verifies that thirty-five percent of the veterans in state prisons were convicted of homicide or sexual assault.

more
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/santina.php?articleid=2598

[saigon68]

12. They are coming back to a street in your town near you

The Fun soon to begin in the streets of AMERIKA

[lebkuchen]

13. Imagine, a country without spousal abuse....

as per Ashcroft's new legalese "blowing off steam" definition.

Wouldn't it be loverly~.

[seemslikeadream]

16. Goodnight Saigon

Goodnight Saigon
-B. Joel

We met as soul mates on Parris Island
We left as inmates from an asylum
And we were sharp, as sharp as knives
And we were so gung ho to lay down our lives

We came in spastic like tameless horses
We left in plastic, as numbered corpses
And we learned fast to travel light
Our arms were heavy, but our bellies were tight

We had no home front, we had no soft soap
They sent us Playboy, they gave us Bob Hope
We dug in deep and shot on sight
And prayed to Jesus Christ with all our might

We had no cameras to shoot the landscape
We passed the hash pipe and played our Doors tapes
And it was dark, so dark at night
And we held on to each other like brother to brother
We promised our mothers we'd write

And we would all go down together
We said we'd all go down together
Yes we would all go down together

Remember Charlie, remember Baker
They left their childhood on every acre
And who was wrong? And who was right?
It didn't matter in the thick of the fight

We held the day in the palm of our hands
They ruled the night and the night
Seemed to last as long as six weeks On Parris Island
we held the coastline they held the highlands

And they were sharp as sharp as knives
They heard the hum of our motors
They counted the rotors
And waited for us to arrive

And we would all go down together
We said we'd all go down together
Yes we would all go down together

[Rebellious Republican]

14. Excuse me, say what! The shit just gets deeper everyday.....

take it like the soldier you are, a bad one! Private Lynndie should count her blessings that she is not receiving the same treatment that she dished out. I hope it does not stop there and they keep working their way up the food chain, oh but we no that will never happen!

[TryingToWarnYou]

18. Well, just like all the others involved...

She is a fucking coward.

Look at the latest picture with the guy beating on some Iraqi who is bound and blindfolded....What a man it takes to do that to someone who cannot defend themselves. Be proud of our armed forces. While I support the troops that are there doing a great job, the ones like these need to catch the first IED they can.

[Disturbed]

20. She will get the max punishment!

The Video of her having sex with several male US soldiers while detainees had to watch is what will sink her. Yeah, that is not the worst she did and that Video is not supposed to be relevant but the Court Members know about it even if that isn't brought up at trial. That will be in their minds as they vote for her guilt and punishment.
The "just following orders" defense will mean zero.

After she gets out of prison maybe she will have a career in S&M sex films.

[Rebellious Republican]

23. She and the others have tarnished the image of all that wear their

uniforms with pride. Whom also have served with honor and distinction. Had I ever been put in that situation, I most certainly would have going up my chain of command and refused to obey obviously unlawful orders. I may have been reassigned to cleaning latrines or mess cooking, but that would have been far more honorable! I wonder if any did refuse and what has happened to them?

[seemslikeadream]

26. A soldier in Haiti refused

He's being brought up on charges. I'm looking for the link.

A bit of what is going on there now.


Haitian Police kill peaceful demonstrators
by Anthony Fenton Thursday May 20, 2004 at 12:18 PM
[e-mail]

Chile is part of an illegal occupation that has overseen the slaughter of as many as 3000 Haitians since February 29th. Emerging evidence shows that the destabilization and coup d'etat began in 2000, planned and executed by the US, UN, Canada, France, EU, and the Dominican. Empires and vassals. The same forces that helped overthrow Allende have repeated history in Haiti!!!

by the Haiti Information Project

May 18, 2004
Port-au-Prince, Haiti

Special Forces units (CIMO) of the Haitian National Police (PNH) killed Lavalas demonstra-tors today in Port-au-Prince as a larger U.S. Marine "peacekeeping" force of about 50 soldiers stood by.

About 6,000 Lavalas demonstrators in one of many separate marches tried to converge near the Champ De Mars for a larger demonstration. The march had been planned for some time and the organizations that planned the march received written approval by the PNH to hold this demonstration on Haitian Flag Day.

It is hard to estimate the actual size of the demonstration but figures of 30,000 to 60,000 different demonstrators in various parts of the city seem credible.

A contingent of about 50 U.S. Marines patroled every hour at the start of one march in Bel-Air trying to intimidate the population there. One of the marines officers in command tried to threaten an American journalist who was filming the action. Whenever, any of the groups of marchers tried to reach Champ de Mars a CIMO unit would "appear out of nowhere" and commence shooting into the crowds of demonstrators.

Reports of similar killing is coming in from different areas of the city. At 10PM in Haiti, there were nine verified dead by the U.S. trained killers. The Marine's seem to be coordinating this carnage, and are standing by with heavy artillery in case the population tries to stop the killers.

Recently the U.S. Marines have been directly involved in the current violent political repression of Lavalas activists. Last week the Marines used explosives to gain access to Annette Auguste's home before they arrested her and her family on the pretense that she was arming Lavalas militants to attack the Marines during Haitian Solidarity Week. No weapons were witnessed or found in possession of any of the protesters today.

Even though the demonstrators were rather angry no rocks were thrown or violence was witnessed to provoke the shooting.

One demonstrator who was shot 30 yards in front of the journalist lay dying of a gunshot wound to the head. The only item in his possession was a Walkman disk player. The CIMO unit that shot the non-violent Lavalasien drove up in a red truck license plate: 1-0060.

Later reports indicate that the U.S. Marines have begun reprisals for the large show of solidarity, once darkness descended on Port-au-Prince

More details on this tragic event later.
http://chile.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/18974.php
fair use

[Stuckinthebush]

19. Well, unfortunately, if her rights were violated...

then the confessions must be discarded. Ironic is the word of the day.

Even though she took part in civil rights abuses, she still has her rights which need to be protected.

Sucks sometimes...but that's the way we should do things in this country.

[seemslikeadream]

21. Tell her to get in line!

The lynching of Garfield Burley and Curtis Brown. October 8, 1902, Newbern, Tennessee.

Cardmounted gelatin silver print. 4 x 5 1/2"

Photographer's imprint on mount, "Photo By Taylor Dyersburg, Tenn."

An account of the lynching in a Tennessee paper reads: "Newbern, Tenn., Oct, 8- Garfield Burley and Curtis Brown, negroes, were lynched here tonight by a mob of 500 persons. Burley shot and killed D. Fiatt, a wellknown young farmer, near Dyersburg, last Saturday. Fiatt had traded horses with the negro, and later Burley demanded that the trade be declared off. Fiatt refused, and while on his way home was shot down by Burley. A posse located the murderer at Huffman, Ark.

While being brought to Dyersburg Burley confessed, implicating Curtis Brown as an accomplice. Both men were lodged in jail at Dyersburg today. A mob appeared and demanded possession of the prisoners. Criminal Court Judge Maiden pleaded that the law be allowed to deal with the case, saying that the negroes would be placed on trial tomorrow. The mob would not listen to this and brought the two men to Newbern. The prisoners were taken to a telephone pole, where they were securely tied face to face and strung up."


more
http://www.musarium.com/withoutsanctuary/main.html

[daleo]

25. I wonder how long until she finds Jesus

And claims that she is born again, so she ought to be forgiven. I believe that tactic was used a few times during Watergate.

[Bluebear]

29. She'll be at every revival telling her "story"

[stepnw1f]

34. F* You

and when your time is up, hide!