The Social Security Trust Fund is Empty, Economist Says in New Book

[patriotvoice]

WINTER HAVEN, Fla., May 18 /PRNewswire/ -- Every penny of the $1.5 trillion generated by the 1983 Social Security tax increase is gone, says Winter Haven-based economist Dr. Allen W. Smith, who says the crime amounts to "the greatest fraud ever perpetuated on the American people."

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/05-18-2004/0002176472&EDATE=

[unblock]

1. yup, raiding the pension fund.

the oldest trick in the book for crony capitalists. he DID say he was gonna run the country like a ceo. he just didn't say what KIND of ceo....

[acmavm]

2. If, in fact, this is true, then there has been massive criminal activity

going on by every administration since Raygun. And that includes Clinton, IF he had a hand in it. And if it is the truth.

[patriotvoice]

3. Every administration since Reagan has plundered it.

More articles, eg:

GREENSPAN'S SOCIAL-SECURITY QUACKERY
http://www.jimhightower.com/air/read.asp?id=11354

Don't Get Duped Out of Your Social Security
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Mar04/Sklar0311.htm

Alan's America
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10047

[warrior1]

4. What the

fuck?

[shraby]

6. If this is the case... when

the social security checks stop going to senior citizens then every person should start a lawsuit to get every cent they paid into the system back in one lump sum. They paid in good faith and it should be returned.

[JayS]

5. Didn't it start even before that? It started the year it was moved...

...into the general budget. Basically, every year that you do not run a surplus equal to or greater than the surplus funds collected for social security...you are raiding the fund.

[papau]

10. The move "into the general budget" changed nothing as to the economics

The strain on the capital markets caused by gov borrowing needs is the "old" method deficit netted with the SS surplus - since the gov borrows first from SS - giving the Trust fund bonds in return.

The total National Debt does not change by one cent because of this change in presentation of the numbers. The Unified - as the current presentation is called - budget is just useful if you need to avoid the simple netting calculation as you evaluate the current and projected strain on the capital markets caused by current and future gov borrowings.

The Gore BLACK BOX for the SS surplus was just another way of saying that all SS surplus would have the effect of paying off prior debt - making room for future SS borrowing if needed - rather than buying bombs because the rich refuse to pay enough taxes to cover the defense department.

The Dems in 1940 wanted to avoid the discussion by having SS buy real assets - stocks and real estate - and the GOP screamed SOCIALISM BY THE BACK DOOR - so we ended up with gov bonds as place holders for future tax hikes on the rich.

AND BUSH WANTS TO AVOID THOSE TAX HIKES ON THE RICH - SO WE GET THIS CRAP ABOUT SS IS BROKE SO AS TO CONVINCE US TO DROP SS FOR INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTS!

[JayS]

12. Thanks Papau. I remember some of the rants my old FIN374...

...Prof used to go on about social security. If I had not paid so much attention to the lady in the row in front of me I might have learned more. :)

[patriotvoice]

15. Dropping SS on individual accounts would be catastrophic.

Raise taxes on wealth (taxes on wages are as far as they can realistically go), stop spending the retirement funds, and implement the whole plan gradually.

The government has spent money it didn't rightly (maybe "legally") have, but you have to fill the hole caused by that mismanagment; raising taxes is a good start.

--
On edit: grammar.

[JayS]

17. I created private social security accounts for all my employees.

We call it a 401k plan though. :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. We're so lucky to have you around every time this issue comes up

[papau]

31. Thanks -this is after 40 years like talking about the weather -easy to do!

:-)

[0007]

25. Excellent post

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Thank you very much...makes clear what they try to muddy.

[mistertrickster]

19. That's exactly right . . . this is money used as a tax like all the other

taxes.

There is really no huge problem with SS that a little tinkering can't fix.

[crossroads]

21. TAKE BACK THE COUNTRY

from this band of lying thieves!
:puke:

[papau]

9. It is not the "Truth"- an attempt to sell the GOP's individual accounts is

all that is going on.

As Ackerman said today - it is amazing that folks treat crap like this as if it was real peer reviewed research! The GOP has an agenda - and crap like this shows up even on a progressive site like DU.

Anyone have an questions please email or DU mail me.

[papau]

7. Bull - - implies all government bonds are worthless

Granted a gov bond is just a promise to tax in the future so as to get cash to pay off the bond. but full faith and credit means something to most folks.

Shows an amazing lack of understanding for our friend Smith and his Ph.D. in economics from Indiana University, Bloomington, and his experience teaching economics at the university level for 30 years/

I was on NPR telling the Boston University clone of Smith that this was Bull last April 21st (the on point program).

I'm sure Smith and I would agree on much - it is just the conclusion that is wrong - the idea that the US can not raise taxes to pay off bonds is nuts.

Now Bush has tried to destroy Soc Security by generating a huge debt and no tax income so as to crisis us/move us into a drop all programs because we can't raise taxes mode.

Basic problem is the money the rich stole from SS can be repaid via a tax increase in the next administration (which would be used to pay down the debt, stabilize the economy and the markets, and indeed allow for some borrowing from the capital markets rather than raising taxes if the rich play nice in the future).

But there is no Soc Sec fraud. The unified budget is just a presentation - and reflects no real change in the economics - and indeed gives an easy answer to those looking for a single number to measure the current years drag on the capital markets. The fraud is the Bush gang pretending bonds backed by a taxing power are worthless because everyone knows taxes on the rich will destroy this nation and we can not therefore raise the money to pay off the bonds when the SS system needs to cash them in so as to pay benefits with real money.

I can not get over the concept of a book publisher being able to convince a Phd in econ that making a few book sale bucks via a lying title and lying statements was worth the trashing of his reputation.

:-(

:toast:

:-)

[patriotvoice]

11. Agreed, it is not "fraud."

It's more that the government has, demonstrably, been buying services using money "reserved" for pensions. This is not the government's money; it's the individual's. Consequently, the government must get permission to spend it.

Being elected is not carte blanche' to spend a taxpayer's investment money. Depending upon the arrangement, it can be said the government gets a percentage of the interest earned on my money, but that's not in effect.

The government is, essentially, using citizens' retirement money under the assumption that the next generation that comes along will pay into it. If you send all the next generation off to war, well, oops.

[AndyTiedye]

20. The Military Doesn't Pay into Social Security, do they?

so if they draft everybody, there won't be any more money going in.

[cliss]

18. Papau, you are very knowledgeable about

this stuff. You certainly know more than the Average Bear. Thanks for all the interesting information. Have you written any books?

[papau]

30. No books - indeed only write-ups for clients - a Will Pitt I am not!

Indeed I have only chaired or been on national actuarial meetings panels for this topic a few times.

I am not a "name" although most of my peers (of a certain age) do know of me.

:-)

[crossroads]

22. Thanks for the info, papau

good to know!

:hi:

[lastknowngood]

8. Well they do call it a "trust" fund so just trust them it'll be there

sure it will and pigs fly.

[Nlighten1]

13. Stay the course!

[markses]

14. LOCK............BOX

Oh hahahahaha...he's so boring! I'd never want to have a beer with him! LOCK.................BOX! Oh hahahahahaha.....:eyes:

[Scooter24]

27. I remember

a hilarious SNL skit where Bush and Gore debated and how Gore went on about the LOCK BOX...it was quite funny.

"You may think you know the location of the Lock Box. And maybe you do. Or maybe that's a decoy, or a dummy Lock Box. Only the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, myself, and Tipper would know for sure"

[bleedingheart]

28. I was thinking the same thing...

oh Al was so boring...but he was at least intelligent.

[Stuckinthebush]

16. And the Bush people say...

Mission Accomplished.

[dbt]

24. !kciK

Back to the front page with yet another ex-parrot!

:evilgrin:
dbt

Baawwwwwk! Lock box! Baaaaaawk! Lock box! Pretty Bird!

[wicket]

29. this burns me up

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[denverbill]

32. The Reagan tax increase on the poor.

They are a bunch of unspeakable fucks. We need to cut social security taxes back to the level needed to fund current benefits. Right now, the poor are financing the general budget which the wealthy get off scot-free.

[struggle4progress]

33. kick

:kick:

[dawg]

34. DO NOT LET THEM DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are trying to default on the government bonds issued to the Social Security Trust Fund. They know they will be forced to raise the income tax (the tax rich people pay) whenever the time comes to start redeeming the bonds (around 2018).

They are trying to lay the groundwork for defaulting on these bonds through some kind of "reform". That is why they say the trust fund is empty, nothing but IOU's, etc. Bullshit.

The robbery of Social Security hasn't taken place yet! We must not let them get away with it. Educate yourselves about this issue, it is extremely important that we not allow ourselves to be swayed by their misleading rhetoric.

[stevebreeze]

35. THE definitive book on Social Security is still "The phony crises"

by Dean Baker and Mark Weisbrot. As the title implies, much of what passes for common knowledge is just hooey to scare you into higher taxes.
:kick:

[papau]

36. Any person that makes CATO fall back on "but private ownership is good"

as it's only real response, are great folks!

So how do I get a job there at the CEPR?


In any case the link to the CPER is

http://www.cepr.net/

The Society and the Academy of Actuaries both have a few more conservatives than DU is used to - but their conclusion are similar to Dean Baker and Mark Weisbrot (but expressed more clearly - IMHO!!!) Now to teach the media!

:-)