American airstrike hits insurgents near mosque in Karbala

[JoFerret]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/17/international/middleeast/18KARBAL.html

KARBALA, Iraq, May 17 — In its riskiest attack yet against the forces of a rebel Shiite cleric, the American military called in an airstrike today to kill fighters standing about 160 feet away from one of the holiest shrines in Shiite Islam, military officials said.

The strike came after nearly a week in which tenacious insurgents supporting the cleric, Moktada al-Sadr, fought daily battles in downtown Karbala against soldiers of the First Armored Division. The insurgents have killed three American soldiers and wounded at least 55, frustrating American commanders who had hoped to break the insurgency by raiding a mosque used as a rebel stronghold last Tuesday.

After hours of debate on Sunday, commanders called in an AC-130 gunship, which began pounding away at insurgent positions with 40-millimeter cannon fire around 12:30 a.m. today.

An American officer on the scene said the insurgents had clustered on a street corner about 160 feet from the golden-domed Shrine of Hussein, dedicated to the martyred grandson of the Prophet Muhammad.
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[htuttle]

1. The return of Yazid

The parallels are starting to make my head spin.

[Aidoneus]

3. Cole's short remark for the day

...snip...US aircraft bombed Karbala overnight. Now that is a story.

I can't believe I just wrote the words above. I would not be writing them if Bush had any idea whatsoever what he was doing in Iraq. Bombing Karbala. It must be being seen by Shiites as like a sci-fi Terminator sort of Yazid.

Every time I think things cannot get worse, they do....snip...

http://www.juancole.com/2004_05_01_juancole_archive.html#108480543906286869

[movonne]

2. This is bad. Oh why, oh why are we still there...Why have we

not got the message they don't want us.

[keithyboy]

22. If the insurgents had the same weapontry the US had, they would be

kicking our arrogant asses. Same for the Palestinians. If they had the weapontry Israel had they would be kicking their asses too.
Or maybe there would be no more insurgencies into the Palestinian territories and maybe we would not have invaded Iraq. I think we knew all along that Saddam did not have the weapons we said he had...other wise we would have not invaded.

[leftchick]

4. oooooooh.....

Fuck! I see lots and lots of dead people very soon.

:(

[gottaB]

5. don't worry, be happy

"Things blow up when they engage targets"






"And they blow up pretty big,"






Captain Byrns said of the AC-130.






"But," he added,






"those things are extremely accurate."

[Just Me]

6. How many My Lai's in Iraq does it take to drag the neocons,...

,...to the HAGUE?!?!?!

The stories about the majority of casualities in Fallujah being women, children and the elderly have not yet hit the hot button. But, I'll bet they will!!! Then, Najaf and Karbala!!!

After the WMD and 9/11 BS didn't pan out, the last excuse was to topple an evil dictator.

Well, HE'S TOPPLED!!! SO, WHY THE HELL ARE WE KILLING THE PEOPLE WE WERE SUPPOSEDLY SAVING FROM HIS REGIME!!!

*ahem* i'm kinda emotional tonight,...please forgive :cry:

[wubbathompson]

7. Well

from what I can tell, Kerry would do absolutely nothing differently, so would you advocate sending him to the Hague? I doubt it.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wubbathompson]

12. What have you read that Kerry would do differently

BOTH want a larger international coalition in there now. KERRY DOESN'T WANT OUT, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO, SO WHAT THE HELL ALTERNATIVE DOES HE OFFER? I can tell my ass from my elbow, how bout you?

[Just Me]

13. How do you KNOW?

Politics is a game,...and no one can play until they WIN a place. You have no clue what he will do once he wins. You can no more read his mind than you can mine.

[wubbathompson]

14. ok, well the platform he is running on, in regards to Iraq,

Is virtually identical to Bush's, thus he will either take over and be just as guilty for continuing an illegal war, or else he is just lying to get votes. WOW, how inspiring!

[Just Me]

21. A "platform" to win does not dictate the future.

That's all I'm saying.

Moreover, who is responsible for getting us into this mess?

BUSH & COMPANY.

That is where the buck stops,...at there doorsteps, period.

They knew what they were doing,...they KNEW they were acting in violation of our laws and international laws.

THEY DID NOT CARE!!!

Their decisions and intentions and actions amount to war crimes, period.

Kerry is not yet in the picture.

[tabasco]

32. Kerry does not demand exclusive US control of operations.

- BIG difference when trying to obtain UN and other international support, no? Nobody will cooperate with the arrogant and greedy Bush corporate cabal. Kerry will allow UN control of operations and will not treat our allies with contempt. But you already knew that, didn't you?
- Kerry has stated the Iraq War was unnecessary, while Bush states the war was extremely necessary. Kerry wants us out - Bush wants us in. Any difference there?
- If you state the positions are the same, you are either intentionally blind or have some other agenda.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aidoneus]

10. I would

And when the occupation is still around by this time next year, I might be. Not here, of course.. Jan.21, 2005 I'll probably be a grease stain in DU's graveyard. I'm no disrupter, which I suspect is more than what I can say for you, but while being the Left Opposition may be fine & trendyish under Bush (subject to many charlatans & short-sighted hypocrites, however), it will be most difficult in a place like this next year and beyond.

[wubbathompson]

11. Here Here

Look, Kerry has got my vote no matter what he does, but some people in here tow the company line like freepers do and it makes me sick. It is really disheartening when I get accused of being a freeper because I recognize that what we are sending into battle ain't that great.

[w4rma]

29. I promise you that Kerry *will* do things differently. (nt)

[Just Me]

15. Me, too. But, I cannot imagine you as a 'grease stain' *smile*. n/t

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Disturbed]

17. al Sistani

He is biding his time. My guess is that he is hoping that the US will get rid of al Sadr for him. If they do, then al Sistani will make his move and call for a Jidhad of his millions of followers to get out in the streets and demand that the Occupation end and the troops get the fug out of his country.

[Aidoneus]

27. actually, Sistani has been passively shielding Sadr

Not openly or strenuously, as there is too much of a chasm between them dating back to Shahid al-Sadr II, but he has notably forbidden the 5th columnist collaborator parties that acknowledge his authority--a faction of SCIRI in particular--from going after the Sadrists.

Though some of those--SCIRI & al-Daawa in particular--who follow him do not hide their fear and jealousy of the Sadrists and shamefully prefer the invaders, Sistani has yet to clear his throat and take a firm stand either way. That's how he has lived to be in his mid-70s while so many of his peers have become martyrs--indeed, such is why he has no peers except maybe Fadlallah, Haeri, and Khamenei--, and I doubt he'll change that strategy for any extended period any time soon.

His opposition to the occupation is written out clearly enough on paper, but does not back it up with actions. For a while it appeared that he was aspiring towards a second Shirazi, but then found his passivity shortly thereafter.

With the new fighting in Najaf and the 1920 Revolution Square being invaded by US forces, and also his own office being sprayed by American bullets, perhaps he will regain that spring to his step.

[bemildred]

18. Calm down, that shot was for Aidoneus.

I think it is inappropriate for a free people to worship
their politicians, and Kerry is far from my ideal, but like
you I will vote for him. Then I will do my best to make his
life unpleasant when he doesn't do the right thing.

[Just Me]

20. Wow. n/t

[Aidoneus]

26. Eh.. I was at a loss for a phrase there

What was the deleted post before it was, erm, deleted?

[Just Me]

31. Mostly about Bush being responsible for the present situation,...

,...and that his regime should be dragged to the Hague. I made one "no no" comment I will, naturally, not repeat. :)

[paulk]

19. "risky" barely covers it...

this is insane. The coalition may have already gone too far - rather than defusing al-Sadr, they're throwing gasoline. There will be no excuses if they blow up that shrine.

[eatstomach]

23. Why do the insurgents endanger their holy shrines?

One would think the insurgents would stay clear of the very holy sites they claim to be honoring.

[bemildred]

24. I believe the theory is that they are "defending" them.

Somewhat the same sort of irony as the US military
"bringing democracy" to Iraqis.

[eatstomach]

25. I doubt the coalition would harm the shrines unless fired upon from them

No need to target something that is inert.

[greenleaf]

28. Like any other shrine

it is a symbol. In this case the Shrine of 'Hussein' is commemorating the 'martyred' grandson of the 'Prophet Muhammad.'

Now go and look up the 'Yazid' mentioned in the first couple of posts and the other terms I've placed emphasis on i.e. Hussein, Prophet Muhammad and martyred , then report back with your findings.

[Bridget Burke]

33. He won't be back to report his findings.

Unless he invents another name. Another martyr for the Freeper cause!

[bemildred]

30. Ah, yes, sweet reason would suggest the whole dispute is stupid.

Unfortuantely, the troops good intentions will not save their
asses, if it comes to that, and us more cynical types do not
find it out of the question that someone might damage the
sacred shrines for the very purpose of blaming it on the US
military. Some might even suggest that that possibility is
a GOOD reason the stay the hell away from there ...