Abuse Scandal Focuses on White House Memo

[radfringe]

Abuse Scandal Focuses on White House Memo
Legal Counsel Wrote Geneva Conventions 'Obsolete'
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20040516201509990006&_mpc=news%2e4
By PETE YOST, AP

WASHINGTON (May 17) - Secretary of State Colin Powell says there were high-level discussions within the Bush administration last fall about information from the International Committee of the Red Cross alleging inmate abuse at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Powell's comments Sunday came as the scandal shifted to the question of whether the Bush administration erected a legal foundation that opened the door for the mistreatment.

---snip---

Within months of the Sept. 11 attacks, Newsweek magazine reported, White House counsel Alberto Gonzales sent President Bush a memo about the terrorism fight and prisoners' rights under the Geneva Conventions.

"In my judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions,'' Newsweek quoted the memo as saying. Powell "hit the roof'' when he read it, the story said.

Asked about the memo Sunday, Powell said: "I wouldn't comment on the specific memo without rereading it again. But ... the Geneva Accord is an important standard in international law and we have to comply with it.'' A White House statement said, "It is the policy of the United States to comply with all of our laws and our treaty obligations.''

[radfringe]

1. related observation

maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but this has me wondering...


Just after the torture news broke on 60 minutes, it was reported that the story was "held-up" by CBS for 2 weeks at the request of bush* Inc.

This means bush* inc had two weeks notice -- yet smirk-boy says he wasn't aware of the extent of the torture until he saw the pictures on TV..

here's where it doesn't make sense -- WH had 2 weeks notice, which means they were aware of the story and the PICTURES -- so why were they sooooo surprised? They must have at least had an inkling of the the impact this would have on the pResidential campaign -- so why was smirk-boy sooo "surprised"?

CBS had the pics, Pentagon had the pics -- didn't it occur to anyone to show the pics to smirk-boy prior to the airing of the story? Unless we are looking at complete imcompetence -- I would think that smirk-boy was at the very least informed of the upcoming broadcast and I would also think that if smirk-boy is truely being a leader that he would have demanded to see ALL the information about it (including pics) -- could it be that smirk-boy is being kept in a plastic bubble and things are being run by someone else?

With 2 weeks notice -- why didn't the WH get ahead of the story and 'break' it themselves with some sort of 'pResidential spin'?

your thoughts -- incompetence, plastic bubble, or something else?

[Oggy]

2. Either

Dick Cheney didn't tell him, or he is lying and he did see them.

[shraby]

3. Maybe they thought

no one would view them as torture, and could slide it by as abuse.

[Judi Lynn]

8. Rightwingers on radio talk shows definitely downplay the seriousness

and reveal pure, seething hatred for these prisoners they know absolutely nothing about whatsoever. Amazing seeing how much raw rage flares out whenever the Republicans plant the emotionally charged disinformation points to whip them up.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. The downplaying is most likely caused by Republican's

genetically predisposed lack of a compassion gene. But hey, they got extra hypocrisy genes to make up for it.

[nolabels]

29. It's a funny thing about them "extra hypocrisy genes"

Everytime I feel as if I got some thing on me, this strange need to jump in shower hits me.

[bpilgrim]

4. maintaing the facade

they have to act suprised to match the predicted reaction of the legitimately suprised/horrified people... otherwise folks might get the idea of 'why didn't he take any action long ago' which would be bad for business/perceptions

cya

peace

[GoBlue]

7. FEAR SUCKS.

The more I learn the more convinced I become that Bushco and 'the terrorists' are deliberately insane. Like evil twins intent on mutual self-destruction and taking everyone else with them.

[Terran]

14. Something else:

They're lying about it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. The Supreme Court Cases "Hamdi vs Rumsfeld"

and Padilla vs Rumsfeld on whether we can call people "terrorists" and send them to die in Gitmo without a trial ended their oral arguments the day BEFORE 60 Minutes II aired the videos. During the oral arguments, the solicitor generals assured the justices that the detainees were NOT being abused and that torture is simply out of the question.

Had the reports been broadcasted in the previous two weeks, the Bushies would have had a harder time justifying their detention policies. So the two week delay isn't about incompetence or their love of secrecy. It was deliberate and it served a useful function - and CBS was the willing patsy in their campaign against the American ideals.

[TahitiNut]

34. Which means Olson lied to the USSC.

Of course. :shrug:

[TahitiNut]

33. They needed the time to set up the Berg capture/video and ...

... compose their talking points. DimSon wasn't programmed until those steps were taken.

[crossroads]

35. "selective memory perhaps?"

Maybe he choose to *electively* forget he knew!
:eyes:

[TankLV]

40. bunkerboy and his gang of CRIMINALS just don't care.

That is the reason.

They plan on stealing another election. Period. They don't plan to leave. Ever again!

Mark my words - we will have another civil war in this century.

I hope I am prooven wrong - but I just can't see them giving up power.

[saracat]

5. BUSH KNEW

This could be IT! Bush is toast!

[shraby]

6. Bush knew

from the time the International Red Cross notified the government a year ago of the abuses in the prisons.

[Shadder]

17. Of course he knew

JANUARY 14

The U.S. commander in Iraq, Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, opens a criminal investigation into reported incidents of detainee abuse at a Coalition Forces detention facility. The release of specific information concerning the incidents could hinder the investigation, which is in its early stages. The investigation will be conducted in a thorough and professional manner. The Coalition is committed to treating all persons under its control with dignity, respect and humanity. Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the Commanding General, has reiterated this requirement to all members of CJTF-7. The media is informed of this on 16 January.
Army Brig. Gen. Janis Leigh Karpinski is first presented with the photographs of the abuse.

Gen. John P. Abizaid, commander of all U.S. forces in the region, was on the phone to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.
Gen.

John P. Abizaid places a telephone call to Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff informing him "There are reports of abuse" by U.S. guards at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison". He told Myers about the disk, "Here's what basically the pictures might show."

Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff places a call to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld informing him of the events described to him - including being told about the photographs - by Gen. John P. Abizaid.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld informed President Bush of the allegations in general terms.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the military's spokesman in Iraq, called the Pentagon. "He said, 'We've got a really bad situation,' " recalled one official, who like others requested anonymity. "The evidence is damaging and horrific," Kimmitt said. The photos and video were locked in the safe of the Army Criminal Investigation Division in Baghdad.

Then just two days latter on January 16th L. Paul Bremer III, the US governor heading the coalition's provisional authority in Iraq, was also handed a report by Amnesty International which described prisoner abuse and Geneva violations throughout US-run camps in Iraq last July. As a result, President Bush called defense secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to the White House for briefings on January 16. Donald H. Rumsfeld is said to have told President Bush the extent of the concern over abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. The meeting was attended by White House chief of staff Andrew H Card Jnr. Bush told about the photo of abuse according to the Washington Post: "Marine Gen. Peter Pace...said on CBS's "Early Show" that beginning in mid-January, everyone "up the chain of command . . . was kept apprised orally of the ongoing investigation." Asked if Bush "was well aware of the situation," Pace replied: "Yes.""

[izzie]

9. If I recall both his father and Reagan did this.

Play act you do not know.I think his father even said he was out of the loop on things that went on in Reagan's time yet we had him in the cab. meeting (Bush) while it was going on.It pays to keep Bush out of any thing that will get his hands dirty. He was the one, I have read, that fired people for his father.Bush runs things for sure and maybe that is why they have made such a mess. I am not saying he does each and every thing but the whole concept of how things are done is Bush. Bush will not take the fall on this and I bet he knew, but he will pull a 911 and keep reading so he can be shocked for us. We know now he knew before he started reading to the kids, that a plane had hit. It just looked better to be reading to kids when told.It is best to say you did not know about any of these prisons before even if you set it up. Or this is how I read it. I figured Powell was gone but I am starting to think he just may come out of this with some pride. I am starting to think that what I read is right, the GOP hate Powell.They are having trouble getting him to say on the floor so they can pin things on him.

[JoFerret]

18. Yes. Bush knew....it really has advantages

to be misunderestimated total out-of-the-loop moron. Nobody thinks you could possibly have known and therefore you get let off the hook time and time again.

[Tellurian]

42. Bush more than knew. He orchestrated it! nt

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. RE: Reagan I and Reagn II (aka Bush II)

I believe the popular sentiment should be: "fool me once....."

[Thor_MN]

26. I'm fully prepared to believe that you could have a conversation

with *, poppy or Gampa Ronnie and they would have absolutely no recollection about it in 10 minutes. Unless it was something important like making money, shoving your agenda down people's throats, making money, or making money, they would be so disinterested that they would forget that you existed. Not just the lying "I have no recollection at this time" memory loss, I talking total complete absence of memory.

The only way to get these parasites to remember you is to be able to make a lot of money for them or to be able to threaten their ability to make a lot of money. In the later case, they will remember you until your small plane crashes or you decide that life is not worth living.

[Clark4Prez]

10. This could be a bit of CIA payback

From the last two lines of the Newsweek article:

"The magazine said the CIA, which approved using high-pressure interrogation tactics against senior al-Qaida leaders after the 2001 attacks, balked at extending them to Iraq and refused to participate.

“They said, 'No way. We signed up for the core program in Afghanistan — pre-approved for operations against the high-value terrorist targets — and now you want to use it for cabdrivers, brothers-in-law, and people pulled off the streets,”’ an intelligence source said."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

I think the CIA leaked this memo and then put the nail in the coffin if you will, by saying, the equivalent of "even we wouldn't do that". This is going to be interesting.

I look for the Reich wingers to bemoan this event as "America has already forgotten the horrible Berg murder." Because, God knows they won't hold Bush* accountable for anything.

[colonel odis]

12. could be payback, indeed.

the cia has a long memory, and bush left tenet to twist in the wind over 9/11.

heh heh heh

[DBoon]

23. BushCo was stupid to push the CIA around

didn't just leave Tenet to twist in the wind, actually tried to pin intelligence failures on the CIA, and suceeded in doing so as far as the press reports.

WH put major pressure on the CIA to come up with "facts" to justify its war.

[NewHampshireDem]

11. Here's a post with a link to the Newsweek article

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x560356

[dusty64]

13. More lies?

Who would have thought.

[Jacobin]

15. Gonzales....Isn't he the freak who wanted to be on SCOTUS?

And that the Dems have blocked?

Or is my memory off

[farmbo]

16. Hey...Lay off Bush! Too many Big Words in the Gonzales' Memo.

What are the chances Bush could PRONOUNCE let alone UNDERSTAND the Gonzales memorandum:

"In my judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions,''


Good God...Bush probably read it and thought Gonzales was proposing a program to have Swiss prisoners make sandwiches.

[htuttle]

19. No wonder they are afraid of the International Criminal Court

That memo is enough to put them all in the dock at the Hague, considering the evidence from the prisons. I don't think they have anywhere near this much evidence on Milosevic regarding his personal awareness and complicity in the crimes.

It would be an easy case -- at least until the Marines invaded the Netherlands...

[Just Me]

22. War criminals,...every one of them!!! n/t

[librechik]

25. "new paradigm"--The Straussian world view?

Gonzalez is referring to some other document--he is analyzing some decision made elsewhere that opens up the interrogation process.

What event or document precipitated the "new paradigm?"

Seems that the PNAC document with its Straussian origins and its ambitions to conquer,( even if it means a policy of public lies and wholesale slashing of human rights) might have influenced somebody here.

Can we nail Gonzales for this tiny bit? Isn't he in line to go on the Supreme Court? He seems to spit on the rule of law.

[dArKeR]

27. Memos Reveal War Crimes Warnings - Newsweek Exclusive

Could Bush administration officials be prosecuted for 'war crimes' as a result of new measures used in the war on terror? The White House's top lawyer thought so.

By Michael Isikoff
Investigative Correspondent
Newsweek
Updated: 6:28 p.m. ET May  17, 2004

May 17 - The White House's top lawyer warned more than two years ago that U.S. officials could be prosecuted for "war crimes" as a result of new and unorthodox measures used by the Bush administration in the war on terrorism, according to an internal White House memo and interviews with participants in the debate over the issue.
   
The concern about possible future prosecution for war crimes—and that it might even apply to  Bush adminstration officials themselves— is contained in a crucial portion of an internal January  25, 2002, memo  by White House counsel Alberto Gonzales obtained by NEWSWEEK. It urges President George Bush declare the  war in Afghanistan, including the detention of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters, exempt from the provisions of the Geneva Convention.
    
In the memo,  the White House lawyer focused on a little known 1996 law passed by Congress, known as the War Crimes Act, that banned any Americans from committing war crimes—defined in part as "grave breaches" of the Geneva Conventions. Noting that the law applies to "U.S.  officials" and that punishments for violators "include the death penalty," Gonzales told Bush that  "it was difficult to predict with confidence" how Justice Department prosecutors might apply the law in the future. This was especially the case given that some of the language in the Geneva Conventions—such as that outlawing "outrages upon personal dignity" and "inhuman treatment" of prisoners—was "undefined."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4999734/

[Spazito]

28. Wow!

Even the mention of "war crimes" and bush in a mainstream report is a shock! A great one, mind you!! Thanks for this link!

Edited to add: This deserves a thread of it's own, imo.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. Boom.

[struggle4progress]

31. Hi ho hi ho! It's off to the Hague we go!

:bounce: :toast: :bounce: :party: :bounce:

[Just Me]

32. S! O! B!

THEY KNEW!!! THEY KNEW!!! They weren't deluded or distracted or whatever. They f*ckin' knew!!!

:cry:

When I think of the tens of thousands or more of people who have been damaged or maimed or killed for these, these Machiavellan MONSTERS' arrogance,...it just makes me so g-damned sad :cry: and furious :grr:

They are war criminals. I hope they rot in jail and then burn in hell!!!!

:argh:

[Canuckistanian]

36. Hmmm, 1996....1996......

Say, wasn't that when CLINTON was president?

[Spazito]

47. Yeah, I caught that too...

wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if a bill passed in Clinton's tenure brought down this disgusting cabal!

[Spazito]

37. Kick

for the added link entitled: Memos Reveal War Crimes Warnings

Dynamite stuff, read the PDF Memos from Powell and Gonzales too!

[maddezmom]

38. here's the other DU link

just like to keep all the inlo together ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=561980&mesg_id=561980

[Spazito]

39. That one's been locked so I figured I better kick this one to

try and keep it up there.

[Just Me]

46. I just printed out the memos. These guys should be in deep shit. n/t

[Bozvotros]

41. Quaint, eh?

quaint

adjective

1 attractive because of being unusual and especially old-fashioned:
- a quaint old cottage

2 Quaint can also be used to show that you do not approve of something, especially an opinion, belief or way of behaving, because it is strange or old-fashioned:
- "What a quaint idea!" she said, laughing at him.

Why do I think these assclowns were using the word as in #2. The Geneva convention is so yesterday and such pathetic liberal twaddle. Just like the idealistic piffle that makes up our constitution and Bill of Rights during this neverending, omnipresent, amorphous War on Terror.

[Beetwasher]

43. BUSH=WAR CRIMES

Now that's the kinda shit I like to see in print! Newsweek is going w/ this angle! At least in the online version!

[myrna minx]

48. Bush is the War Crimes pResident.

I hope he tries to run his campaign on THAT. This is so explosive.

[Spazito]

44. Kick again

*

[74dodgedart]

45. Prisoner abuse is against US military law....as well as Geneva