US Tanks Battle Najaf Guerrillas in Vast Cemetery

[Eye and Monkey]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAC421534.htm

14 May 2004 06:15:10 GMT

NAJAF, Iraq, May 14 (Reuters) - U.S. tanks moved onto sacred ground in the Iraqi Shi'ite holy city of Najaf on Friday, pushing deep into its ancient cemetery in a fierce battle with guerrillas loyal to insurgent cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.

NOT MUCH MORE -

Comment: Seems that "vast cemetery" aptly describes BushCo's New Iraq.

[Occulus]

1. Oh, SHIT.

Do our commanders have no conception at all of exactly what sacred ground means to these people, or are they being directed to ignore those sentiments? And what will the reaction to this one be?

Doesn't the very use of tanks on these grounds constitute aid and comfort to the enemy; aid, by giving them a reasonably agreeable reason to strike back against an invading or occupying force, and comfort, by lending their own negative beliefs about us and our Western style civilization yet more credence?

If you apply my statements only to Islamic fundamentalist terrorists currently in Iraq (and if they weren't there in numbers before our invasion, they certainly are now), doesn't this very action- the simple act of moving tanks onto very very old sacred grounds of a nation we are purportedly trying to "free"- amount to simple treason?

Holy Shi'ite! (oh, pun intended, come on, have a sense of humor) I just realized something else: aren't the Shi'ites the ones we promised air support to in return to their uprising against Saddam in the first Iraq war- only to hang them out to dry?

They're gonna be pissed!!! Looks like we just made a new enemy. Great.

[Just Me]

14. Perhaps, it is intended to provoke or inflame so as to create a

justification for doing mass killing bomb dropping.

That is the only rational conclusion I can reach from such inflamatory actions.

Of course, I am also keeping in mind that the PNAC plan would include an endeavor to escalate matters such that Syria and/or Iran are pulled into the conflict giving rise to a reason to expand this war across the ME.

[mmm]

25. It sure looks that way, doesn't it?

If that is the intention, they are progressing nicely.

[DS1]

19. If it were that sacred, would they be using it as cover?

:shrug:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

55. Did you think that perhaps we moved into the cemetery and that...

...the Iraqis are defending it? It is their country, you know.

:shrug: back at ya.

[DS1]

20. duped

deleted

[NJCher]

2. oh mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

I want to crawl under my chair. No under the carpet. No that's not low enough. Maybe the crawl space under my house.

What on earth is wrong with these people?

I am sitting here in stunned disbelief. But after I get out of it, I'm printing out this story and writing to my representatives about it.

(Who, BTW, have not responded ONCE to my letters about getting out of this war NOW.)

AND P.S. THEY ARE ALL DEMOCRATS!!! One of whom is the most liberal out there! This tells you how EFFED we are, everyone!


Cher

[Nihil]

3. They obviously took note of religious sensitivities ...

... and decided not to allow the desecration of another football stadium
by providing burial facilities close to the battleground this time ...
:eyes:

[MaineDem]

4. BBC just had a report

Seems even those opposed to al-Sadr are outraged at us now.

[maddezmom]

5. US needs a distraction from torture photos and Berg's murder

<<U.S. commanders have said they will try not to encroach on holy sites, including the Imam Ali shrine where Sadr has taken sanctuary.


But they said this week the "illegal militia" must be disbanded and their patience was wearing thin after more than a month of fighting across southern Iraq (news - web sites).>>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040514/ts_nm/iraq_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480

[NuttyFluffers]

6. it's like they are trying to find the worst choice.

common sense, common decency, basic morality, minimal honor.... nothing, not a single one of these things this administration has.

enough, give the military back into the command of generals on the ground - keep out the civilian politicians from the detail work of war. why is this concept so hard to understand. sure, have civilian supremacy of the military, but don't have the civilians so involved that they can screw everything up. just keep them there to make the big orders and resource management.

gah, i'm sure there are several officers, retired and in action, who are jst shaking their head at all this madness.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

8. Are you kidding?

First of all, there is no indication that the command is anything BUT in the hands of the Generals. Secondly, even if it wasn't, you think that it would be BETTER if it was?

Do you think Generals take things like Muslim sensibilities into account when they form their battle plans?

[Teaser]

11. You're incorrect.

The generals wanted to stay out of Fallujah and Najaf. We went into Fallujah because of a direct order from *, and went into Najaf at Bremer's behest.

Most Generals don't want to see their men die for bogus strategic reasons.

[NuttyFluffers]

44. generals get a bad rap, but...

generals on the ground often genuinely love their troops. they hate wasting their lives for political reasons.

i used to think generals were all warmongers, but that was my youthful, idealistic phase where i was naive and headstrong. now that i've aged (not much, but enough to grow patience and humility) i find that i've been unfair to the whole group of generals. yes, they do something horrible, but they are needed, and that's where they excel in serving their people. and there's a significant majority of generals who really do care about their troops, along with positioning, and social concerns. remember, the wise general's best resource is a wealth of intelligence, then it is up to his strong processing ability to filter what's useful from books and from stats on the field to apply their forces in the best way possible.

besides, Sun Tzu's manual of war is just about required reading for generals, and in just applying Sun Tzu to this situation the obvious answer is 'don't invade najaf.' i would be surprised if most generals would not come to that conclusion, or foolishly ignore it.

[dbt]

7. We have NEVER learned to stay out of burial grounds, have we?

And whether or not you believe in the metaphysical, you gotta admit that nothing good ever comes of such desecrations. There have just been too many, er, coincidences.

:freak:
dbt

[Bo]

27. Cursed be those that disturb

the dead.
Very bad karma

[Aidoneus]

29. the horror-movie "Indian burial grounds" have nothing on this

There's something like five million people buried at the site, who wanted to be close to Ali(RA).

[Karenina]

9. DUCK AND COVER!!!!

:SIGH:

[maddezmom]

10. Sacred Shiite Shrine Suffers Minor Damage

NAJAF, Iraq - The Shrine of Imam Ali, one of the most sacred sites for Shiite Muslims, suffered slight damage in fighting Friday between U.S. soldiers and militiamen loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Four holes, each about 12 inches by 8 inches were seen on the golden dome by an Associated Press Reporter.


The holes appeared to have been caused by machine gun fire but it was unclear which side was responsible. Three were on one side of the dome and one on another.


During their crackdown on al-Sadr's militia, U.S. forces have been careful to avoid damage to shrines in Najaf and other holy cities for fear of enraging Iraq (news - web sites)'s Shiite majority.
~snip~

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=1&u=/ap/20040514/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_shiite_shrine

[maddezmom]

17. US Military putting blame on Iraqis for the damage

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq (news - web sites), said he was unaware of the damage to the shrine, but added: "I can just tell you by the looks of where we were firing and where Muqtada's militia was firing, I would put my money that Muqtada caused it."


He said the militiamen were using religious sites "much like human shields."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=4&u=/ap/20040514/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_shiite_shrine_kimmitt

[0007]

23. Kermitt frog dimwitt has never been wrong!

[daleo]

28. Kimmet says his military

Has been using the Iraqi population "much like human punching bags and sex toys".

[maddezmom]

34. sometimes, ya have to wonder what goes thru that head of his

wonder if he's related to the chimp?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

56. Hard for anything to travel through solid granite.

[4dsc]

12. Playing right into Al sadr hands

is this a play by al sadr to gain more leverage with the Iraqi people?? Is he playing this out knowing the US will screw up again??

[greatauntoftriplets]

13. Today is the Muslim holy day!

It's like the barbarians sacking the Vatican on a Sunday, for chrissakes.

[AZCat]

15. UPDATE: WRAPUP 3-U.S. tanks thrust into cemetery in Iraq holy city

link: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAT440856.htm

WRAPUP 3-U.S. tanks thrust into cemetery in Iraq holy city
14 May 2004 13:01:33 GMT
(Adds details, quotes, Danish account of abuse)

By Suleiman al-Khalidi

NAJAF, Iraq, May 14 (Reuters) - U.S. forces intensified their war against Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr on Friday, sending tanks into Najaf's vast cemetery to blast guerrilla positions among its ancient tombs for the first time.

Explosions and gunfire rocked the city for hours and there was fighting around the main police station, less than a mile (one km) from some of the holiest Shi'ite shrines.

Sadr aides showed journalists three holes in the gilded dome of the Imam Ali mosque, Najaf's most sacred spot, and blamed American shellfire. It was not clear what caused the damage.

Dr Jubayr Awdah Faysal told the Arabic Al-Jazeera television station people arriving injured at the city's general hospital spoke of wounded people lying in the streets and alleged U.S. tanks were stopping ambulances from getting to them.
<snip>

More at article...

[SpiralHawk]

50. Ahh - the Olde "Skull & Boner Cemetery Invasion" strategy

Taken directly from the pages of that classic of spritual warfare:
"Temporary's Compleat Guide to Global Chaos"
by Chimpus X.X.X. Bonesman

Let he or she or it who readeth comprehendeth.

[PurityOfEssence]

16. Remember the scene at the beginning of "The Terminator"?

There were robots attacking the humans with a robot tank rolling over a churned-up landscape of human remains and crushing a skull under its treads...

The forces of high-technology are now fighting the unarmored partisans in much the same way. With our troops body-armored, armed to the teeth and with sophisticated communications, the locals must look at their fighters as even more heroic in comparison. It's almost like the Saracen cavalry fighting armored Knights in the Crusades.

Oh, did I mention that the desecration crap sucks?

[Karenina]

18. This is NOT good, kids.

I dare conjecture it's deliberate provocation. :cry:

[DS1]

22. wait, I thought Bush sent our troops out lacking body armor,

suffcient ammunition and failing equipment.

Now they're rolling over skulls in impenertable tanks wearing ballistic body armor without ammo to shoot everything that moves.

Sometimes I wish DU would pick a story and stick with it. :eyes:

[Sterling]

41. He the sarcs are a great counter to Palidins on Age Of Empires.

Horses are scared of camels.

[jpak]

21. We don't need a "permission slip" to go anywhere we want

and kill anyone we want.

There will be no sanctuary for terrorists.

Onward Christian soldiers!!!

[PATRICK]

24. The demonstration earlier this week

Whatever the participants thought, this demo asking Sadr loyalists to leave is an attempt to cast the assault in the same light as when the Saudis had to retake the Kaaba shrine from terrorists long ago.

They are hoping at the minimum for shared blame, but to leave the Sadr people who so far are splintered from the rest of the Shiite power bases, would be a double defeat. The Fallujah minority are already isolated and can be allowed some slack, but every strategy leaves open the possibility that the majority of Iraq will not only be lost, but lost to the more extreme militant elements.

So no matter if it turns all of the Shiites against the occupation, in the long run Sadr has to go. While that may seem brutally simple, all of this violence may in fact still be a counterproductive waste like everything else the Bushes have touched. Deaths for nothing and worse.

[ewagner]

The battle has been going on

for a couple of days.

It could NOT continue in this manner unless Sistini (sp) has given a wink and a nod to the "coalition forces".

Face it: Sadr is a pain in the ass to Sistini and he won't shed any tears if Sadr is taken out..........

[daleo]

26. This seems rather disrespectful

Fighting in a graveyard. I don't know how Bush, Meyers et al could possibly think this will help turn things around.

Bush: "How can we top our last outrage?"
Meyers: "I don't know. How about invading a graveyard."
Bush: "That's the spirit."

Although that is probably giving Bush too much "credit".

[sofa king]

30. I think there might actually be a plan, here. A pretty good one.

Look, I don't like the fact that we have this bullshit war and I want my friends home just as much as anyone else. But I've got some pretty good sources and I think I know a little bit about what's going on here.

The U.S. pretty much let al-Sadr have the run of the place for the past month and a half. It would appear that in that time the al-Sadr militia has not only not won the enthusiastic support of the people of Najaf, his goons have done a pretty good job of alienating the local population.

That was an important step, because instead of joining arms with the militia, the locals are trying hard to stay the hell out of the way of the fighting. That's supposedly the big reason why we stayed out of that town in the first place, not because it's a holy city.

Sadr is pretty much f@$%ed now, because Najaf wasn't his power base to begin with (his supporters were primarily in Baghdad), the people there are sick of him, and his Iranian backers have cut the rope on him. If he loses here, he's through, and that's a big, big step in getting the hell out of Dodge.

A lot of innocent people are still going to get hurt, and we're gonna lose more of our boys and girls. That sucks, and as I said, I don't like the fact that we're there at all. But whipping Sadr's ass is one of the most important on-ramps to the road home for our troops, and I'm all about that. I wish them the best of luck.

To my mind, winning this fight is the best of all possible worlds now. It's the quickest way to get our troops out of harm's way and if there's an ounce of justice left at all in this world the credit will be given to the soldiers in the field who planned and executed this stage of the war--not to the chickenhawk fools who got them into it in the first place.

[Just Me]

33. al Sistani asked for a cease fire. US doesn't care, destroys holy sites.

This is nothing but intentional provocation and escalation. WTF does "whipping Sadr's ass" accomplish when holy sites are being violated and more innocent civilians caught in the cross-fire of a freakin' control/power binge, in addition to Sistani's life being threatened?

This is BS!!! It is NOT an "exit strategy",...it is an intentional escalation in accordance with PNAC endeavors. Please, WTF up,...please.

[paulk]

40. al Sistani also asked Sadr to disarm his militia and send them home

The Americans wouldn't be doing this without a green light from at least SCIRI, if not Sistani. They would like to see Sadr broken just as much as Bremer would.

It's still a very dangerous strategy - it could easily backfire and give Sadr real political power. If Sadr is able to unite the Shi'ite south, you can guarantee civil war, IMO.

[Just Me]

48. A civil war? Do you mean against the "occupiers"?

I hear the "civil war alert" frequently notwithstanding the obvious: now that Saddam is gone, the Iraqis have a common enemy - the occupiers (that would be US).

[paulk]

54. a civil war, by definition, would not be against "occupiers"

It is myopic on your part to say that the Iraqi's have a common enemy - what about the Kurds? They're Iraqi's, aren't they? They've been fighting on the side of the Coalition in Fallujah - not exactly a rejection of the "occupiers".

While the Shia in the south would like the Americans out eventually, most where quite pleased to have Saddam deposed, and the religious leadership has all along been willing to let the political process play itself out, knowing that they would sooner or later come to power by the weight of sheer numbers alone. Of course they would need the Coalition army to stick around awhile, if only to prevent armed insurrections like the one currently being perpetuated by Mr. Sadr.

There are many factions in Iraq that will not accept the theocracy Sadr and his Mahdi Army would impose, the Kurds being only one group.
SCIRI (Badir Brigade) also comes to mind, with a larger and better trained militia than Sadr has. SCIRI doesn't necessarily have the support of most Iraqis, but then neither does Sadr. People with guns have a nasty way of gaining "support".


The situation in Iraq is not as black and white as you seem to believe, and of the many outcomes available, it's still possible to salvage "bad" from "worse".

[Media_Lies_Daily]

59. Keep on wishing while the rest of us try to stay in the real world.

[paulk]

61. back up your assertion

c'mon, make an argument...

And what's this "us"? You speak for someone other than yourself?

[Just Me]

60. You are DEFINITELY the first person to call me "myoptic".

Every person who has ever known or communicated with me has recognized my capacity to look at every person and situation with multiple lenses.

Your failure is recognizing the fundamental values and potential that all human beings share. While you focus on the complexities of "events",...you lose the threads that bind us all together, as complex as we human beings may be.

Your failure is believing you can judge someone like me as viewing anything as "black and white" just because I am principled. Your failure is being so arrogant as to judge me,...at all.

Beyond that,...

,...how do you KNOW that Sadr is bent upon a "theocracy"? Did you pull that out of your a? Are you his best buddy and somehow have him pegged? Did Saddam MURDER Sadr's father to prevent a "theocracy"?

[paulk]

62. my characterization of your post regarding a situation in Iraq

as "myopic" was not the personal attack you seem to have taken it as.
I spoke to a single statement of yours, making no judgment of your character. I attacked a statement you made and your response was... to attack me.

----------

How do I know anything of Moqtada al-Sadr? Well, "just me", I did not pull it out of my ass, I used google and that wonderful tool we have all been gifted with - the internet.

If you do the same you will discover that Sadr has repeatedly called for religion to have an active role in government. Another definition for that would be "theocracy".

[Just Me]

64. Sadr is certainly NOT the only person calling for religion,...

,...to shape both the government and the laws. The majority of Iraqi citizens may very well want their country to shaped consistent with Islam, as well.

With respect to your assertion that you did not intend to be personal when you adjudged my point of view as "myoptic",...I took it personally,...and that counts as much as whatever your intention may have been.

[paulk]

66. Sadr has called for religion to DIRECTLY shape government

much like Khomenei did in Iran. Clerics would have the power to DIRECTLY influence political decisions. That's a THEOCRACY.

You could make the argument that the majority of citizens of the US want our country shaped consistent with Christianity - and to a certain extent they've been successful. We are still, however, despite the efforts of Ashcroft, et al, protected by our constitution, which separates church and state.

Sadr believes in a system where those protections would not exist. He is a fundamentalist. Describing him as a "radical" fundamentalist is accurate in that his beliefs in this area are not held by the Shi'ite religious leadership and are not held by the majority of Iraqis. He is outside the mainstream.

There are not many good outcomes to the American invasion of Iraq - for Al-Sadr to come to power in the aftermath is one of the worst, IMO.

[daleo]

36. When did Sadr ever hurt an American who wasn't invading his country

Another in a long list of manufactured enemies.

"But whipping Sadr's ass is one of the most important on-ramps to the road home for our troops, and I'm all about that."

A year ago it was "the road home goes through Baghdad".

[The_Casual_Observer]

38. So, the latest sound bite is that Sadr is losing the hearts and minds

My guess is then that he is actually gaining support. What evidence do they have to make this claim? We never get any real news from Iraq anymore, so why should we believe this?

[Teaser]

45. Sistani was *never* popular in Najaf

His base is the urban poor in big cities like Basra and Baghdad.
Rest Assured he is more popular than ever with that group. The middle class merchants of Najaf will never like him. But that doesn't really matter.

[Aidoneus]

51. Sadr, you mean (long & typically unorganized)

Sadr's office is in Kufah with main power base in the giant urban working class neighborhoods of Baghdad and al-Basrah, Sistani's base is Najaf. The Kufah presence is symbolic; it was his father's mosque, and an incredibly historic site. There a small layer of elites around him collaborate with the invaders to line their pockets and act a thin facade for the recolonization. They act as a modern equivalent of the cowards in Kufa in Imam Husayn(RA)'s time, as they watch Husayn martyred every day by the tyrant of their age and do nothing, or worse assist in it. Sayyid Sistani has not yet shamed himself in the way some others around have, for at least he flatly refuses to meet with any American occupation official. Perhaps silence and inaction is, in a way, worse..

The opportunistic cowardice of, if not Sistani himself (he has yet to clear his throat and take a firm stance either way), some of those who follow him can be simply explained. The weak foreign-backed movements like SAIRI (originally created in Iran for the purpose of fighting against Iraq and to assist Imam Khomeini(RA) in the event al-Basrah was ever taken) and al-Da'awa (shaming its proud history of resistance) hate Sadr because, unlike them, Sadr actually has vast popular support while they must hide behind the tanks of the invaders in order to take power. Even before the news of torture was discovered by white ears--Iraqis and much of the world have known for months--and before the Sadrist intifada began, he reportedly held 47% support in Baghdad--a city that is 3/5ths Sunni & Kurdish--and 67% in al-Basrah, to say nothing of the other cities in the south now resisting the occupation.

This was not always the case with al-Da'awa and SAIRI. It is possible that they simply permantly expended their strength in the 1991 intifada. Memories of the tragedies that followed the suppression of this intifada may explain why Karbala` and Najaf are not as eager for another fight.

Sistani has survived to his old age strictly because of his cautious inactivity. So many of his peers were bravely martyred, including much of Sadr's family, but he lives because he puts his studies over politics. Sadr mocks his type as "the inactive branch" while striving for their own to be "the active branch".

It is somewhat widely known among the trendy who learn geography because of whatever war we're currently fighting, that Sadr's father was martyred by Saddam 5yrs ago. Following this, Sistani did nothing and this has forever shamed him in the eyes of many Sadrists. But just as im important is who his father's cousin was--Imam Shaheed Mohammed Baqir al-Sadr, also the father of Muqtada's wife, was one of the most important figures in Islam of the last thousand years. Mohammed Baqir al-Sadr's influence today is still felt all over the Islamic lands, especially Iraq, decades after his martyrdom at the hands of Saddam's gunmen.

One of the few real struggles between Sadr & Sistani is over who is the leader of the enourmous revolutionary current that Mohammed Baqir al-Sadr initiated, and who can see it to fruitition and build upon it. In the 90s, this most certainly belonged to Mohammed Sadiq al-Sadr, for then as now Sistani mostly studied in his office while Mohammed Sadiq led the fight against both Saddam's government on the one hand and US & Israel on the other. His son maintains the struggle and resistance, while Sistani maintains his passivity.

Sistani commands respect among the educated for his vast studies in Islamic jurisprudence, not for his political stances. The political stances he takes part in, or not take part in as the case may be, have been the few black marks on his distinguished record, for example the inactivity following the martyring of his then-rival Mohammed Sadiq. Sistani and Sadr would be better off as, if not allies, neutral to one another; what is best for Iraqis would be for the Iranians and Sistani to discourage the shameful collaboration by SCIRI & al-Da'awa that they at first encouraged, so as to allow the Sadrists a free hand to move against the occupyers without fear that there is a 5th column of collaborators that will shield the invaders.

This is difficult, as both Ibrahim Jafaari and `Abd al-Aziz al-Hakim have wedded themselves both the occupation and to Kurdish nationalism as means of maintaining their position due to their lack of popular support. As said before, they fear Sadr strictly because of their own weakness and the Sadrists' strength and therefore for now choke down whatever pride they have. When they see their cadres abandoning them for Sadr and other resistance groups in the south like Hizb al-Fadula al-Islamiyya or the Tharallah Organization, they'll wonder how they can maintain themselves with their weaker abilities. (al-Fadula is another Sadrist organization, but under another of Mohammed Sadiq's students named Mohammed al-Yaqubi, and Tharallah formed in 1995 to resist the Baathists, and a couple months ago fought a battle with the British occupyers in al-Basrah and I suspect also is now fighting the Americans and other mercenaries of the occupation in places like `Amara & Maydun province, where Abdalkarim al-Mohammadawi's Hizbu'llah is strong, also Nasiriyya etc.)

If I had another hour to spend, I'd go through this dreadfully unorganized post and try to make it a bit better organized, but it'll have to due for now.

[jmcgowanjm]

53. both Ibrahim Jafaari and `Abd al-Aziz al-Hakim,2 clever by 1/2

According to Juan Cole the US has co-opted (or
frozen) the top, but that the poor in Iraq
are not the cipher they are in the US.

Muqtada al Sadr has the hearts and minds of
the poor.

[Karenina]

63. Kick!

Thanx! :kick:

[jmcgowanjm]

47. Nasiriya, Samawah, Amarah uprisings

http://morningsun.net/stories/051504/usw_20040515033.shtml

"Our morale is sky-high and we are not scared of anyone," said
a militiaman who only gave his first name, Mahdi. "We will die
for Moqtada," he said.

With US helicopters and a jet fighter circling the city, and all of
the roads in and out sealed, doctors said that many of
the wounded were unable to get to hospital. Dr Jubayr
Awdah Faysal told Al-Jazeera television that the injured had
been lying in the streets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1217375,00.html

[symbolman]

42. You don't think we'll invent

yet another boogieman to replace him?

Face it, we are using these guys as excuses to ride roughshod over the populace..

if it wasn't him, it would be Saddam, or Osama or any other name we can't pronounce that makes it all the more scarier to us white guys..

it's all a ruse.

and it's criminal.

[NNN0LHI]

49. Anyone who thinks killing Sadr will end this is a complete fucking idiot

Creating more martyrs is never going to bring this to an end. The sooner some ignorant Americans who have no clue of the Iraqi culture begin to realize this the better off we will all be. So if this is part of Chimpys big plan as you suggest he is pissing in the wind.

Don

[GermanDJ]

65. Naomi Klein is in Iraq and she made some interesting observations

Based on her reports I strongly doubt that Al Sadr is not popular among the Iraqi people. I tend to think that the opposite might be true. Just see for yourself:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/04/1676712.php

Here's a quote from the article:

"Sadr City has seen little of Iraq's multi-billion-dollar “reconstruction,” which is partly why Muqtader Sadr and his Mahadi army have so much support here. Before U.S. occupation chief Paul Bremer provoked Sadr into an armed conflict by shutting down his newspaper and arresting and killing his deputies, the Mahadi army was not fighting coalition forces, it was doing their job for them.

After all, in the year it has controlled Baghdad, the Coalition Provisional Authority still hasn’t managed to get the traffic lights working or to provide the most basic security for civilians. So in Sadr City, Sadr's so-called “outlaw militia” can be seen engaged in such subversive activities as directing traffic and guarding factories from looters. In a way, the Mahadi army is as much Bremer’s creation as it al Sadr’s: it was Bremer who created Iraq's security vacuum -- Sadr simply filled it."


Just scroll down the page and look at the pictures showing members of Al Sadr's Mahadi Army directing traffic.
I think that at least some of the statements about Al Sadr - statements that he's a radical, etc. - are propaganda that our mass media spread without cross-checking those alleged facts handed over by US military and the CPA. I rather suppose that much of Al Sadr's actions are intended to help the local population in Iraq.

[G_j]

31. Shiite shrine damaged during fighting

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout...

Shiite shrine damaged during fighting


HAMZA HENDAWI
ASSOCIATED PRESS

NAJAF - The golden dome of the Shrine of Imam Ali, one of the most sacred sites for Shiite Muslims, was hit by what appeared to be four gunshots in fighting today between U.S. soldiers and militiamen loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Four holes, each about 30 centimetres by 20 centimetres, were seen on the landmark structure by an Associated Press Reporter.

The holes appeared to have been caused by machine-gun fire but it was unclear which side was responsible. Three were on one side of the dome and one on another.

During their crackdown on al-Sadr's militia, U.S. forces have been careful to avoid damage to shrines in Najaf and other holy cities for fear of enraging Iraq's Shiite majority.
.more..

[Disturbed]

32. Exit plan?

"one of the most important on-ramps to the road home for our troops.."

Bushco has plans for 14 Military bases in Iraq. The MIC and Multi-Corps have no intention of leaving Iraq, period.

[sofa king]

35. Bushco may have those plans...

But we don't, do we? I'm doing what I can to make sure that doesn't happen by making sure those kleptocrats don't sneak off with the next election. And once they're out, so too are our troops--I hope.

And yes, I totally agree that it's quite possible to enrage Muslim people everywhere by tearing that town up. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but it looks like it already has started.

However, I would point out that it's pretty damned common for our Iraqi friends to claim damage to holy shrines by the infidel. In at least one case, back in '91, they were stone-cold busted dismantling one of their own mosques. But even al-Jazeera is reporting that these guys were storing weapons in mosques and schools. I'm not sure the worldwide public at large, whatever their persuasion, is going to buy it this time. I sure hope they don't, or it is we who are f#$%ed.

[The_Casual_Observer]

39. I must say that the argument that the Iraqis are misbehaving

by hiding weapons in mosques and schools to use against "the coalition" in this invasion leaves me a little cold. Since when did the US command the high road in this God damn genocide? This is Iraqi home turf, too bad if they don't fight fair and stand in the open.They didn't ask for this, however, bush did.


I suggest that if the US military wishes to fight a "fair fight" perhaps they ought to take one up with Russia or China, or perhaps North Korea.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[dArKeR]

43. Cool 94F today in Najaf. Next week 100F in the shade. aWol's War

http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/IZXX0013.html

[dArKeR]

46. Shiite militiamen celebrate the destruction of U.S. army equipment

Shiite militiamen celebrate the destruction of U.S. army equipment in the holy city of Najaf, Iraq, Friday.

http://theglobeandmail.com/

There is a pic of Iraqis with US weapons. I haven’t read any other place that the US were beaten back and retreated to leave behind weapons! But the story linked to this pic doesn't mention anything about the weapons.

[jmcgowanjm]

52. Yes, I picked that up dArKeR

There's a big hole in the news.

ProGovMedia wants to talk about something
besides Iraq.

NBC also reported that the rape of young boys by Iraqi
guards, apparently in a special section of the prison, had
been filmed by US soldiers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3698879.stm

http://theinsider.org/mailing/article.asp?id=498

[DemoTex]

57. Sounds more and more like "Hue" every day.

Think of how these battle stories are going to sound in 20 years. In 20 years. That's when people will spit on the ground when the Bu$h name is mentioned. Oh, they will come-up to their just rewards! And it will not be the laurels of the American people. The time is coming when all Americans hate the family Bu$h.

[Disturbed]

58. al Saqawi

He is the next "bad guy" on Bushco's hit list.

Bushco has latched onto him and his group now, a perfect balance
to the Prison torture scandal.