Sex Crimes Cover-Up By Vatican?-CBS

[jmcgowanjm]

Now it turns out the orders for this cover up were written in Rome at the highest levels of the Vatican.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/06/eveningnews/main566978.shtml

[cantwealljustgetalong]

1. wonder what else is...

"stored in the secret archives" of the Vatican...

[Voltaire99]

14. At this rate...

Don't be surprised if Jimmy Hoffa turns up there.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DODI]

3. What happens if I switch?

Do I go to hell if I become an Episcopalian? Can someone sum up the differences? The only differences I am aware of are divorce, the papacy and transubstantiation (still can't spell it). What, if any, are the other differences?

[DrBB]

4. Well, I switched

Raised Roman Catholic but went over to Episcopalian. I don't think I'm condemned to eternal damnation, though I suppose I could be wrong. All you really give up is the pope. No great loss far as I'm concerned.

on edit: that's the right spelling of transubstantiation. And you don't really have to give it up if you don't want to. We creatively fudge the question. Which is the right way to deal with it I think.

[DODI]

6. I am terrified of leaving the Church

I don't know why but it pains me to think of leaving it -- not the "institution" but the basic tenets. How did you feel when you made the change? What prompted you to make the change? I am so conflicted about this. I don't really go to church much but I do have a strong faith. I am trying to raise my kids in something. I just don't know what to do.

[DrBB]

7. Check your In box--I PM'd you about this

[sandnsea]

15. Terrified?

I don't think you should be terrified about choosing a different location to worship. I love Catholicism for alot of reasons. For me, I always knew exactly what the Church taught and understood all the reasons for the teaching. For a while it seemed the Pope was going towards a more forgiving and united trend, but that seems to have come to a screeching halt. I'm kind of up in the air too now, thinking seriously about Episcopalian.

And I want to add one thing. I didn't raise my kids in church consistently, I took the let them grow up and choose route. Well, they grew up. My daughter went with a friend to a popular nondenominational church in town. If your kids don't have a foundation in the Bible, when they grow up they will have no defense against hateful teaching. She rejected this church after a short while, she's too independent. But she still thinks Catholics aren't Christians!?! And there's nothing I can say to change her mind. It's not important to me that she be Catholic, but I hate that she has rejected an entire religion because she's been told a bunch of misconstrued garbage. There's some beautiful teaching in there if you can root out the crazy-making stuff!

Just thought I'd add a few thoughts from my own life. Oh, and my kids are all just fine without total indoctrination. There was only that brief few months I was really worried about having my only daughter be a total fundie!!! Yikes!

[DODI]

16. Thank you for your thoughts

My dad was raised without religion and is now an incredible Fundy, can't even talk with him anymore. I went to public schools and then one year at a Catholic college -- it was the early 1980's -- but no one told them. I was a history major and the slant was too much. I did not appreciate being told Queen Elizabeth I was burning in hell but Queen Mary was just fine.

I have stated in previous thread that I believe my Catholicism has contributed greatly to my liberal views. I have always tried to separate the "spiritual" values from the "Church's" values. That is getting harder and harder. The abuse stuff is truly disturbing. The gay issue bugs the hell out of me, the choice stuff and on a local scale the fact the the pastor of our current church would not give communion to a child with Cerebral Palsy hit me pretty hard. He stated that she had not sin so did not need communion. That is just ridiculous.

I guess I need to look at my "spiritual" priorities. The kids need something. I need something. I want to be involved in a church that helps people. Maybe all I need to do is go back to my church here in the city. It is in a poor neighborhood and they seem to get what the function of a neighborhood church should be. They seem to thumb their noses at a lot of papal stuff and do what they need to do to help thier neighborhood. I do admire that church.

Once again, thank you for your thoughts. You guys are helping me a lot in trying to work this stuff out.

P.S. It seems odd that the South Park priest episode was on last night. It seems as though the CBS story is based on it.

[mumon]

17. You could go Orthodox...

some people actually do that...

You give up the Pope, and (I think) musical instruments at the mass, but you get icons, beards, and nice hats...

And languages of the service that are even more incomprehensible than Latin.

[dArKeR]

11. The Eps should go on TV campaign to boost their

membership. Here's their jingle:

'Would you rather have your child molested or switch?"

or

'I'd rather have my child molested than switch?

[alfredo]

20. same pagentry, less guilt

[NashVegas]

5. And Here I Thought I was Past All the Shit

But this pretty much takes the cake.

[dArKeR]

8. And you thought I was a Screw-Ball posting allegations about

Priests molestation of children. Sometimes you have to be graphic and disgusting to shock people into thinking - seeing what's really going on. And I always said from my first posts, 'the Pope, all the Cardinals and all the Bishops know this is going on too. It's impossible they didn't. (Take off your GOP hat for a few seconds and put on your common sense thinking hat.) I'd say the power elite in the American media industry had a hand in the cover-up too by not reporting stories of victims for 30 years.

And just wait to see the 100,000 times more sexual child molestation that are going on in South America, Africa, and SE Asia by missionaries.

Who's committed more terrible sins, Saddam, his sons and grandson or the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops?

(I also say A. this isn't confined to the Catholics; B. it involves adult men and women of their parishes too.)

(I called the Pope a Whore last week in response to a post calling him a Fascist. I think my post was deleted, (maybe I'd just lost the story.) If it was deleted by the Mods. I want an apology! Not really. The Mods. do a great job!)

(Most priest go through EXTENSIVE educational training systems very well educated men.)


http://darkerxdarker.tripod.com/

[NashVegas]

10. I Don't Blame the Media for the Cover Up

But I do blame them for exploiting it to the hilt now that the subject has been cracked wide open.

For the longest time, the subject was so delicate that non-clergy cases were reported as "contributing to the deliquency of a minor." (Oh how fitting, in retrospect. It says everything, and nothing.)

I never heard of such a story involving the church until the '80s, they trickled in bit by bit. Then you had the the small detonation in the early '90s, you'd see a story maybe twice a month, it seemed.

The Globe set this one off in a big way.

I saw the item someone posted about Africa and - the Methodists, I think? - were the church trying to do the house cleaning there. But I strongly suspect we'll hear about others.

[PaDUer]

12. dArKeR--There's quite a few

coverups going on...matter of fact, here's one for starters locally...The bishop covered for those accused, intimidated the people when they went to him to let him know what was going on, moved the accused OUT OF THE AREA to other parishes!

http://www.saintjustinmartyr.org/news/notices.html

[Lugnut]

9. Wonderful.

I'm glad I'm not Catholic anymore.

[dArKeR]

13. 'Accessory to Murder' is what I'd charge the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops with

if I were an Attorney General in a state who had a molested child eventually die from suicide or any unnatural death. No matter if it was Aids, shot by a police, shot while committing a crime... anything.... I'd hold responsible the Catholic Church for the eventual state of mind of the molested person who died.

I guess that's why the Power Elite would never let me become part of their political/social club.

[mumon]

18. BEWARE of this- this COULD be a ploy by John Paul's Karl Rove...

You know, Cardinal what's his name. The guy that actually runs things there since JP is really doing his "Weekend at Bernie's" imitation these days.

Look at the date- 1962. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but why is it coming out now? Power ploy by conservatives in the Vatican?

OTOH, consider these lines:

The document, once "stored in the secret archives" of the Vatican, focuses on crimes initiated as part of the confessional relationship and what it calls the "worst crime": sexual assault committed by a priest" or "attempted by him with youths of either sex or with brute animals."



Now, I haven't seen a large number of brute animals coming forward to accuse the priests. Not yet anyway..

[dArKeR]

19. Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse - Mail&Guardian

http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?ao=19162