Is Curves Fitness Chain Funding Pro-Lifers?

[TrogL]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119350,00.html

With its 30-minute workouts, no men, no mirrors and no exorbitant membership fees, Curves International (search) is the fastest growing fitness chain in America, helping more than 3 million women stay in shape.

But in San Francisco, Curves is being called out over abortion because owner Gary Heavin donates millions of dollars to anti-abortion groups.

[4_Legs_Good]

1. I heard that the founder is a personal friend of the Lame Duck Pres.

Prolly from the same article.

david

[goclark]

2. Spin this morning

Said the Op Ed writer got all the facts wrong. The owner did not give the Curves money for Right To Life Causes.
LIES!!
Writer is now "on assignment."
In other words,they will "prove" that she made a mistake and then everyone will keep on going to Curves. IMO, he is a real neocon and hid the $$'s ,the writer smelled a rat.

[SemperEadem]

9. Snopes.com is saying that he's more harmless than the article states

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/curves.asp

"All this is by way of saying that while it's correct to identify Gary Heavin as a patron of pro-life endeavors, it would not be right to point to Curves as a supporter of those same causes.

Barbara "cause and effect" Mikkelson "


Talk about parsing...

[Voltaire99]

56. Sorry, Snopes is carrying water for the pro-lifers on this one

Here's the summation of Snopes' weak argument. It's not a debunking of Rosen's case; it's just a right wing lecture about the freedom of the rich to act as they please, and a condescending one at that. The whole thing turns on a silly assertion that the wealth amassed by a CEO, when spent on pro-life "philosophy," is a private matter since he's "acting as a private citizen." Yawn. (Note also the goofy analogy to a "spendthrift employee"--hardly a valid comparison, since Heavin has much greater resources than employees.)

Bottom line, people: it very much does matter what a rich man spends his money on, especially if you're voluntarily giving money to the rich man.


Gary Heavin is far from the first successful businessman to underwrite reproductive causes — Tom Monaghan of Domino's Pizza and Carl Karcher, founder of the California-based hamburger chain Carl's Jr., have been very open and public regarding their support of the pro-life philosophy, just as Warren Buffett, ranked by Forbes magazine as the second-richest man in the world, has been forthcoming about his backing of pro-choice programs. In each instance, these men are acting as private citizens who choose to bestow parts of their fortunes on the causes they believe in, not as officers of their corporations. The money is theirs to do with as they please, just as anyone's paycheck belongs to the person who earns it and stops being the employer's money at the moment it is paid out. That a spendthrift employee might choose to gamble away his earnings doesn't mean the company he works for supports gambling; likewise, that a wealthy man financially supports particular causes doesn't mean the corporation that paid him the money favors those movements.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/curves.asp

[Zhade]

57. Uh...didn't I read recently that Buffet is working with Kerry?

Or am I thinking of Bennet?

EDIT: I was right - Buffett is the guy.

So a pro-lifer is advising Kerry? Swell. At least it's on economic policy, not social policy.

[Pretty_in_CodePink]

59. Reread. Buffet has been forthcoming about his backing of

pro-choice programs. It's the run-on sentence.

[Zhade]

65. Oh, whew! Thanks, I did misread that.

Cool, no worries on that issue, then.

[Raster]

3. curves for women, but owned by an anti-choice man!

rabid, hard-core conservative

[AndyTiedye]

6. Making His Customers Have Babies is Good for His Business

[workforpower]

4. Bernie Ward has discucced this.

The owner is a fundie. Its all true.

[Maeve]

5. Snopes has it

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/curves.asp

[Bog Frog]

7. Yes. Let us continue to shit all over this organization because its

owner is a pro-birth guy.

Let us ignore the fact that the organization gives overweight women -- many of whom need support-group motivation as well as a place to exercise -- a safe, male-free (very important for some), accepting environment in which to get a little exercise.

I'm fat. I hate to exercise & need to. But I'll be damned if I'm going to go to a Bally's or a Gold's Gym. I feel miserably uncomfortable in those places.

Personally, I will not go to Curves. But I wouldn't begrudge any liberal woman who needs a safe place to exercise the right to go there merely because the owner gives money to anti-choice groups. :eyes:

[shanti]

8. oh good grief

bally's, golds, etc. also have workouts that are strictly for women too, AND THEY DON'T PUSH THEIR PRO LIFE BS!

i'd been considering curves, but after reading this, i'll be damned if i'll put money into this asshole's pocket! :grr:

on, edit, there's no such thing as "pro-birth". where did you pull that from?

[Bog Frog]

10. Does anyone know if Curves "pushes" the owner's agenda

in any manner whatsoever on the workout members? Honestly, any Curves members here? Do we know if flyers are posted or if the leaders talk about anti-abortion activities or other such stuff?

And if that happens -- is it not within an organization's rights to do so?

If you feel the need to boycott a place because of its owner's politics, more power to you. If you don't, no one should make you feel as if you should.

"Pro-birth" -- because these jerks aren't "pro-life." In my view most of them don't care what happens to the mother and baby after the baby is born. They just want to force her to give birth to it. So I beg to differ: There is such a thing as "pro-birth."

I know many people whom I believe have earned the "pro-life" title -- they have adopted children. They've put their money where their mouths are. (I also know pro-choice people who've adopted children.)

Edit: Yes, Bally's & Golds have women-only exercise groups. But do they have women-only days on the floor where the machines & weights are? Not an hour or two that I might be able to get there. I'm talking about the advantages of a women-only club -- many women would find that invaluable. I'm not going to tell a woman who needs such an environment "You're a liberal! How can you go there?!"

[4_Legs_Good]

14. Good points Bog Frog...

There's also the point that not every town has a Bally's or a Gold's. They're expensive to start, but any strip mall (unfortunately increasingly everywhere!) can open a Curves.

My wife is a Curves member, and she had no inkling before this weekend that there was a fundie slant to the chain or that the owner was "pro-birth" (I like that term!).

However, I don't think that the benefits are all that they're cracked up to be - at least not in our town. They're supposed to be pretty strict and harrass you if you don't go in regularly, etc., but such is not the case in our town. They haven't even THREATENED to put me in the electrified room yet - let alone our son! (Kidding - reference to a Stephen King story)

All in all, I haven't been impressed with it was a fitness center, but I think some people find it useful.

I think it's good to know what's behind the corporations we support, but I think we're all lying to ourselves if we don't admit that we sometimes overlook (on purpose usually) some of the evil things corporations do while trying to bring us a "good" product.

So I'd say - weigh this information in your choice to join or not to join. I have a feeling that my wife will be trying another women-only gym in the near future, but we'll see.

david

[fudge stripe cookays]

15. One of our DUers recently said

that she had gone to a Curves and seen crosses or other paraphernalia hanging around in one of the rooms.

My niece worked for one in Alberta and recently came down to Waco, their headquarters (surprised?)

If liberal women work for liberal causes or donate to liberal candidates, then work out at Curves, they've just canceled out any good they did. You're putting money in the opposition's pocket.

It's the same as shopping at Wal-Mart or Home Depot. Buy a pair of walking shoes and start walking. I lost 30 pounds in 5 months. I'd rather keep my self-respect than EVER keep a fundie in business. I don't care how "inspiring" their commercials try to make themselves.

I just marched in Washington. How could I live with myself if I gave that asshole money?

[midnight armadillo]

It's a franchise

While I confess to not knowing much about CUrves, they are a franchise so they're individually run, like a McDonald's. Explicit religious stuff may be the owner's policy, not the corporate one.

[SeattleDem]

71. but your money still ends up in the owner's pocket

sure, it's a franchise like McDonalds. But they pay fees to the owner; the owner ultimately profits from every person who pays to workout there.

It's not about corporate policy per se, it's about the end result, which is providing money to someone who is going to use it to fund pro-birth zealots who believe they do in fact have a right to ram their religion down my throat.

I feel bad for the small business person who owns the franchise and didn't know this, but ultimately, I have to put my money where my beliefs are.

[joycep]

19. Pro birth is the term

that I use for most of these people. I know that some people who are against abortion are truly pro-life. They care about children after they are born. I personally am pro-choice and I could not patronize a place that I knew donated to anti-choice organizations.
But that is my choice.

[Claire Beth]

34. "anti-choice" is the term I use. n/t

[Nashyra]

61. I belong to curves up here on Tahoe

and asked the "owner" what the deal was and if was true about 2 weeks ago. She said yes that the founder was pro life and that she was dismayed when they found out. They were really looking for away to promote the fact that the "franchise" owners views do not represent the "owners" views. I've copied some of this and will be taking it to her. I hate to give up my membership but I will if I have to. I can not help fund in any way an anti choice organization. By the way I posted about this when I first found out and did not get any response.

[question everything]

79. Yes, the owner has a right to spend his money as he sees fits

and, hopefully, pro-choice women will not help him by giving him their money.

When I go to the gym I go, exercise and leave, never bother to see who is next to me. As for the weights, if I am there when the aerobic studio is empty, I (and others) go there to use the weights there and I don't have to fight for the benches.

[duvinnie]

11. My impression of curves

I just went thru the curves monthly 'magazine' that a friend
passed on to us. There is an obvious, underlying evangelical
theme to it - the mission seems to be outreach to suburban
women, using obese women's self-esteem and self-image issues
as a conduit to "bring the Lord" to them. Article after article
contained subtle and not-so-subtle allusions to fundie
notions like "a woman cant glorify God if her body doesnt
reflect that glory" and so on. interview with the co-founder
(I believe) gushing about her fundamentalist faith.

I wonder how many of these outlets are bringing the word of
God to impoverished women in minority areas?

BTW the ads and photos were 80%+ white affluent women.

[PfcHammer]

24. huh. I see. So a large Muslim woman who is also

a brown person would not be welcome ?

[TheDebbieDee]

30. That's what it sounds like to me too, KleverKittie.......eom

[duvinnie]

36. of course she would!

so long as she is willing to "see the light" and accept
the one true fundie god.

[Supormom]

75. As long as she puts out the money...

I'm sure she'd be welcome!

[Kukesa]

42. Hear, Hear, seekthetruth.

I concur -- Curves was something I was considering, but they'll not get a cent from me.

And since I stopped eating Krispie Cremes (for the same reason) maybe I won't even need Curves.:P

[slappypan]

13. Curves is a ripoff

They give you no instruction in proper form and have you do the exact same circuit workout every time. This sounds like a place where you could either injure yourself or get burned out very quickly. It's certainly not an effective fitness program. In my opinion you are better off finding some classes at a park district or YMCA with qualified instructors. There are plenty of non-threatening, fun, safety-conscious exercise classes out there. All those health clubs are a ripoff — they depend on lots of people paying membership fees and never showing up.

[goddess40]

22. Both my mother and I ended up with shoulder injuries

because we weren't given information about exercises we needed to do to supplement the Curves machines. We both ended up in phy. therapy, which I hated but went because the pain was so bad.

[salin]

18. look at what some of the religious right did to Buffet's philanthropic

program... where employees could donate money to a fund to support a broad range of philanthropies. Well apparently a (small?) bit of the money supported something controversial (maybe planned parenthood) so the fundies advocated their followers to boycott buying any product associated with Buffet's organization) Berskshire (investments)... sometime last year - due to the impact of these calls - Buffet announced the end to the philanthropic giving program.

[SidDithers]

20. Don't take this the wrong way please...

And I'm sure you've heard this all before, but you don't need to go to a gym to exercise. A half hour walk, 3 times a week will help to speed up your metabolism and start you on the road to better fitness.

Sid
A former "fat guy" who started walking 3 years ago, and recently ran a 1:59 half marathon.

[skippysmom]

25. My thoughts exactly

I'm trying to get into better shape, and I walk 45-60 minutes every day on my lunch hour. I much prefer exercising outside.

I wasn't planning to join a gym, but I certainly wouldn't join Curves if I was going to. The anti-choice types don't need more profits.

[Bog Frog]

27. no worries, and thanks for the advice

I can't walk for exercise, but thanks. I know what I need to do.

I appreciate the gentle suggestion. And good for you! :)

[CO Liberal]

23. I Would

My wife was thinking about joining the Curves facility near us. When I tell her about this, I know she'll stay as far away from there as possible.

Using your "logic", we should all support Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps because he's advocating religion.

[Bog Frog]

28. How do you figure?

How are the two even analogous?

[CO Liberal]

29. They're COMPLETELY Analogous

You're willing to overlook a HUGE minus (their CEO's support of some ultra-radical pro-life groups). I cannot (and will not) do that for ANY organization.

[Bog Frog]

31. Let me clarify some things, then.

1. I'm not willing to overlook anything to go to Curves. I won't eat at Carl's Jr. or shop at Wal-Mart and I wouldn't go to Curves. Why? Because I won't support businesses that give to anti-choice causes. Period.

2. It's not for me, or for you, or for anyone, to tell another, "You must not shop/eat/work out there because of this." We don't have that right.

3. Are you honestly saying: for a liberal to work out at Curves is the same as supporting Fred Phelps? Please explain, if that's what you're saying. Fred pushes hatred, plain & simple. I don't even know how one would "support" Fred Phelps, anyway. As far as I know he doesn't solicit donations and he doesn't sell anything.

Until I see a clearer explanation, I can't agree that your comparison makes any sense.

[CO Liberal]

33. Any Person or Organization....

...that supports those radical pro-life groups deserved to be driven into bankrupcy, IMHO.

ON EDIT - From your original post:

But I wouldn't begrudge any liberal woman who needs a safe place to exercise the right to go there merely because the owner gives money to anti-choice groups.

Wouldn't it be better to educate that liberal woman so she can spend her money wisely?

:shrug:

[Bog Frog]

38. I think it would be better to let that liberal woman make up her own mind.

Rather like letting her make up her own mind whether or not to have an abortion.

[CO Liberal]

41. That's What I'm Saying!!

Give her the facts so she can make an educated choice. But as far as I'm concerned, I would suggest that every woman I know (and most of them are pro-choice) steer clear of Curves because of their financial sopport of Operation rescue. Regardless of how "safe" a place it is to exercise - it's totally unsafe for women's rights.

[Bog Frog]

46. They're not going there for women's rights! They're going there to

exercise!

Does everything have to be politicized to the nth degree? See my post no. 45 for more in the same vein. In short: some people don't give a shit about politics. It's unfortunate but there it is. You're not going to get them not to patronize Curves if they're not politically motivated.

[CO Liberal]

47. Life Is an Education

If people learn the consequences of their actions, perhaps they'll choose not to patronize companies that are counter to their beliefs.

The same way that since I denounced Christianity, I refuse to patronize any business that has a "Jesus fish" on its sign or in its Yellow Pages ad.

[Bog Frog]

49. You mean you wouldn't buy flooring from a company w/ this on its trucks?

"Serving Jesus Christ Thru Carpet"

;)

Yes, education can change things.

Who are the educators in this case? Who will tell the women who patronize Curves that they "shouldn't" -- I won't. It is up to them. It's not going to change the mind of the apolitical housebound mother of four who is desperate for this half an hour out of the house twice a week with other adults.

[CO Liberal]

52. No, I Wouldn't

Plain and simple.

BTW, I just spoke to my wife on the phone and told her what i learned in this thread about Curves. She said she glad to learn this, because she was thinking about joining the Curves facility near our home - now, she won't.

[Bog Frog]

53. Does she have any other options?

Is there a YW/YMCA? Oh, wait -- that's Christian. Not being snide -- would she avoid that, too, because of the name?

How about other gyms? How about city rec. programs? Maybe tai chi would be good. :shrug:

[CO Liberal]

54. She Says She'll Continue Exercising at Home

She refuses to support any company or group that supports conservative causes. She's also going to e-mail a few of her like-minded frineds to thell THEM about Curves.

[CO Liberal]

43. Yes, Fred Pushes Hatred

And so to the radical pro-lifers, such as Operation Rescue and the Army of God. And quite literally, any liberal who works out at Curves IS supporting hate groups that are just as evil as Fred Phelps, IMHO.

[Mrs. Venation]

32. That's Ridiculous

You are using a logical fallacy called False Dilemma. It is defined as a fallacy in which a person uses the following pattern of "reasoning":

1. Either claim X is true or claim Y is true (when X and Y could both be false).
2. Claim Y is false.
3. Therefore claim X is true.

The two issues, reproductive freedom and homophobic bigotry, are unrelated. Just because you disagree with both, you try to say if one is true, then so is the other.

Logical fallacies merely point out the weakness of the argument of the person who uses them. Use a logical fallacy, and you've forfeited the debate.

[CO Liberal]

35. But They're Totally Related

Any organization or indicidual that advocated restrictions on reproductive freedom or bigotry against gays is anti-liberal and completely undeserving of support by anyone with a liberal or progressive viewpoint.

[Mrs. Venation]

39. Respectfully, CO Liberal, They Are Not Related

It's like a wing-nut who says if you criticize the occupant of the White House, you favor terrorism, terrorists, you're anti-military, anti-American, ad nauseum.

I understand your passion, here, but, IMHO, you're wrong on this one. It is your choice to spend your money however you wish. It is not your choice to tell someone else how to spend her money.

Personally, I wouldn't patronize Curves, for the same reason I don't patronize other businesses who support causes or organizations with which I disagree. I don't, however, try to force my decisions on others, and this is where we disagree.

I know anti-choice people who are not anti-gay, and vice versa. The two issues are not related.

Edited to correct typo

[CO Liberal]

40. In Bog Frog's Original Post (#7)

...she seemed to imply that "the fact that the organization gives overweight women -- many of whom need support-group motivation as well as a place to exercise -- a safe, male-free (very important for some), accepting environment in which to get a little exercise" outweighed the radical pro-life position of Curves' CEO.

Personally, I cannot separate the two. I will not patronize Hobby Lobby because they contribute to Jerry Falwell, and I'm sure my wife would not patronize Curves because they contribute to Operation Rescue. As far as we're concerned, Falwell, Operation rescue, and Fred Phelps are equally evil and totally beneath contempt.

[Bog Frog]

45. Not every woman is so enlightened.

Not every person is politically enlightened -- to either side of the aisle! Some folks are completely apolitical! They don't care who gives to whom. They see a service they want to avail themselves of and they take the opportunity. They don't see politics.

The owner of Curves supports people who picket Planned Parenthood clinics. How about if you get a pamphlets and spend a little time in a chair outside your local neighborhood Curves, letting the women who go in know who they're "supporting" by meeting a need?

[CO Liberal]

48. First, I Have Two Jobs

So I don't have time for such activism. Second, I'm recovering from three MV accidents in the past four years - four herniated discs limits my physical mobility.

As a result, I have to limit my activism to posting here on DU and hopefully inspiring others to take action where I can't.

And I agree that many people are apolitical. Perhaps it's up to us to open their eyes to the consequences of their choices.

[Bog Frog]

50. I know; it was a rhetorical proposition.

That's why I said chair -- figured you couldn't stand. Didn't know you couldn't sit. Sorry.

[CO Liberal]

55. I Can't Stay in One Position for More Than 20 Minutes

Makes it hard to sleep. :-(

[Mrs. Venation]

68. We Seem To Have A Communications Failure

...she seemed to imply that "the fact that the organization gives overweight women -- many of whom need support-group motivation as well as a place to exercise -- a safe, male-free (very important for some), accepting environment in which to get a little exercise" outweighed the radical pro-life position of Curves' CEO.


As far as we're concerned, Falwell, Operation rescue, and Fred Phelps are equally evil and totally beneath contempt.

I think you are misunderstanding the point Bog was making. I don't think she was saying that the political position of Curves' owner outweighs their position as a general rule. Didn't she say she would not patronize the business because of their political stance?

I think what she was saying is that she thinks it is improper for someone to place their own spending judgments in a position to overpower the needs of another. I happen to agree with that position; as I said previously, there are businesses that I choose not to patronize because of the political or ideological positions taken by their owners, but I will not try to force someone whose priorities are different from mine to conform to my decisions.

I agree with your position on Falwell, et al. They are vile, contemptible people and organizations, and I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. I will not, however, chastise the women who patronize Curves. It's their money and their decision. If asked, I'll tell them my opinion, but I won't force it on anyone.

[CO Liberal]

69. However....

...I'm sure that once the word gets out about the financial links between Curves and these radical pro-life groups, many women will choose to take their money elsewhere.

[Voltaire99]

58. The Man has you coming and going!

First, he makes you feel bad about your weight.

So you go to his workout center.

He pockets your money, and gives some of it to anti-abortion kooks.

These men make you feel bad about your reproductive rights. Worse, they use your money to try to take them away.

Whether you're huffing away in the Man's workout center or on his hospital delivery room table because abortion has been made illegal, it's the Man who calls the shots. You sweat; he decides.

And yet you chafe not at this insidious control, but because others want to make a connection between their values and how they spend their money. They know that money can come back to bite them, with a vengeance.

Take another long, good look at this issue.

[Bog Frog]

70. You assume a great deal.

Why do you think I care if anyone tries to make me feel bad about my weight? I'm fine with how I look. It's my HEALTH that makes ME want to change. Not what anyone else says or thinks about me.

Your post is bullshit because you've based it on the premise that I am some downtrodden poor woman with no brain, no will, and no self-esteem. Perhaps you'd like to take a long, good look at your assumptions rather than telling others what to take a long, good look at.

[Mrs. Venation]

74. The Issue

is simple. Is it improper for one person to browbeat another person to influence or control how she wants or needs to spend her money?

It's her money, and I'm not going to tell her she can't spend it at Curves because it makes her an anti-choice shill, or some other foaming-at-the-mouth epithet.

Now I'm pretty damned angry about the men here taking such a self-righteous attitude. Spend your money the way you want, and leave everyone else alone, unless you are purer than pure and have never spent a penny that went to someone whose political ideology is different.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Edited because I am a grammar queen.

[PassingFair]

72. Try Contours, Bog

Just like Curves, only the money won't go towards controlling your reproductive system!

[dawn]

12. Why no mirrors, though?

I think they should have at least one, for the people who may be overweight (or not!!) and comfortable with their own mirror image.

[webtrainer]

16. I looked into starting a Curves franchise . . .

glad to know this before I invested any $ with them. I knew they were from Waco, TX., but their agenda didn't particularly jump out at me. Snopes says they push the "abortion causes breast cancer" lie. I'm gonna tell my mother-in-law about them. She *loves* Curves.

It is a tough call for many, to support them or not, since they do a good job with their market of middle-aged women, really helping them get fit. Not for really *serious* workout regimes, but get's em off their butts and is really simple and easy.

[onehandle]

17. The owner is a neighbor of Bush.

Curves may not be individually involved with extreme pro-lifers, but the owner's money comes from Curves, and that's where his money goes.

Semantics.

[KamaAina]

21. It's all here. Read it and weep.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/04/29/EDGAB6C1IO1.DTL

So is there any reason why you shouldn't rush out to join this Wal-Mart of gyms that's helping so many women improve their health?

Well, yes. The owner, Gary Heavin, has given at least $5 million of his profits to some of the most militant anti-abortion groups in the country.

Heavin, like his next-door neighbor George W. Bush in Crawford, Texas, found redemption as a grown man. Before founding Curves in 1992, he went bankrupt, lost custody of his two children and served a six-month jail sentence for not paying child support. In prison, he became a born-again Christian.

Hmmm... maybe we better think twice before we pack the Enron crowd off to prison...

...and here's the kicker, tacked on at the top of the article:

Clarification: A Ruth Rosen column Thursday -- "What's wrong with curves?" -- stated that three "pregnancy crisis centers" that received $5 million from Curves owner Gary Heavin were "supported by Operation Save America." The column was referring to Operation Save America's verbal endorsement of the centers, not financial support.

Gee, that was really necessary, wasn't it? The fake clinics are getting their filthy lucre directly from the Curves guy himself. What possible difference does it make if the ultra-fundie "Operation Save (sic) America", described as being worse than Operation "Rescue", is kicking in money or merely supports this travesty?

The sign ahead reads "Dangerous Curves". Detour to any other fitness outlet -- another gym, the Y, your local Parks & Rec -- for your safety, and that of all American women!

[patcox2]

26. That explains their 9 to 5 hours.

My wife looked into it, liked the idea of no men, no mirrors, no fashion conscious health club preeners around. But then she found they were only open, basically, during working hours, or school hours. There is simply no way a working career woman can go to curves, at least our local curves.

So this would explain it. They cater to the stay at home moms while their kids are in school. They don't want to distract the women from being home to serve their husbands and families, though, so no evening hours. No women like my wife around to serve as an evil example of a succesful professional woman. Very interesting.

[duvinnie]

51. yes

that does seem to be the idea.
a lot of things they do, like their magazine and the types
of women profiled, the hours open etc seem to be totally innocent
and coincidental - but when you take these together, you start
to get a picture of a totally fundie organization.

[stanwyck]

67. Not for someone who is serious

about fitness. Their hours are ridiculous. I work 10am to 7pm. When would I go to Curves? I visited one last year. They didn't have much. Just some weight machines. No aerobic classes. No pool. No cardio equipment. I joined a real gym. For Christmas, I asked for training sessions. I strongly recommend those. My gym is open 5:30am to 10pm, plus the weekends. If you're going to spend money on a gym, join a real one with all the amenities. Then, you'll go. Or, if you're being careful with your money, run at the high-school track and swim at the Y.

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[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. I looked at the Curves in my neighborhood, and

found their equipment and training limited, so much so that I'd probably get bored in a couple of weeks, even though they really try to push you into a full-year contract.

Instead, I went to the YWCA, where I could get 1) a variety of activities and classes with certified instructors, 2) memberships in six-month chunks, and 3) a place whose stated philosophies are a) health and fitness, b) early childhood education, c) anti-racism, and d) empowering women and girls.

Sounds like the typ of place I want to support, and for about the same price as Curves. Currently, I'm taking a challenging (no, really!) water aerobics course and Pilates.

[LibDemAlways]

60. My sister-in -law almost opened a Curves franchise,

but she took the paperwork to a lawyer who advised her not to. The contract was extremely one-sided, and she would have been committing herself to monthly payments to the corporation for years, even if her franchise folded. Given the short shelf-life of a lot of these exercise fads (anyone remember Jane Fonda or Richard Simmons gyms?) the corporate guys at the top stand to continue to make money long after the public has gone on to something else.

[Nashyra]

63. I have to admit I do enjoy curves

but the analogy to the working hours makes sense now. They are not open at all on Sundays which I found rather strange. The owner of our curves has said they were trying to extend hours but to no avail. I like the owner of our curves and hate to see her livelihood go up in smoke, especially after she has posted on the walls articles about me in the newspaper volunteering for Clark. They had an interview that the local paper did with me after I returned from NH along with a picture of Clark. It was up with a nice sign saying "one of our members" then they had a picture of me from the paper caucusing for Clark after he dropped out. They have allowed me to register people to vote and have been very Dem friendly but I can not monetairly support an anti choice organization.

[Rich Hunt]

62. Women's Workout World

In Chicago, we have these great places called Women's Workout World. They're very no-frills and oriented toward busy women, working moms, etc., and you see all sorts of body types - even among the instructors. Thank ghod there is no need to go to a Curves here. I've heard bad things about it anyway - the programs are too rigid.

I wonder if other large cities have similar places.

[playahata1]

64. I never liked the hydraulic equipment at my campus fitness center.

I liked circuit training even less. My school's fitness center had EVERYTHING, from free weights (which I used religiously, and will continue to use once I am able to start going to a gym again) to Nautilus and several other brands of machines to aerobics. Yes, Curves is very limited and not worthy of my patronage.

[Chovexani]

66. I'm not surprised

I've seen the Curves guy on the 700 Club a lot, they push the chain all the time on there. The guy is a big time fundie.

I wouldn't spend a dime there myself.

[CO Liberal]

73. "A Man is Known By The Company He Keeps"

Anyone who would appear on "The 700 Club" is low-life scum, and should be avoided at all costs, IMHO.

[Bog Frog]

77. I respectfully suggest you revise your statement.

I have no beef with you. But "Anyone who would appear on "The 700 Club" is low-life scum, and should be avoided at all costs, IMHO" -- :wtf:

This broad, broad brush you paint with is scary. You don't know the people who have appeared on televangelist programs. How do you know they are scum? Does merely being a fundamentalist Christian make one scum?

Mind your answer. My mother- and father-in-law, my grandmother, and my brother-in-law -- all of whom I love and would die for -- are fundamentalist Christians.

My grandmother told me years ago she wished she could go on the air at PTL to tell the world what wonderful things God has done in her life. Would this have made her scum? Or is she, by virtue of her religious beliefs, already scum?

I like to think I'm a tolerant woman, but one thing I can't abide is such narrow-mindedness.

[tonekat]

76. Anyone know which companies are owned by fundies?

Glad to find out about this, my wife was considering them.

We never, ever patronize Domino's, so we're certainly not going to give our money to any organization run by a fundie whacko. We actually have a neighbor who has two of the Curves franchises, but he is one of the few unpleasant people in our neighborhood. We know which ones are his, she wasn't going to go to them anyway.

Is anyone aware of an accurate list that states which companies are owned by anti-choice types?

[Logansquare]

78. Carl's Jr. and I've heard AOL (not the Time Warner folks)

Apparently In-and-Out burgers has bible phrases on their cups, but that seems to be more of an homage to their deceased son.
https://proxify.com/p/011110A/http/www.snopes.com/business/alliance/alliance.asp