California soldiers say Abu Ghraib guards had little guidance

[Kadie]

California soldiers say Abu Ghraib guards had little guidance

The Associated Press
Last Updated 8:12 pm PDT Sunday, May 9, 2004

WALNUT CREEK, Calif. (AP) - Some of the California National Guard members assigned to work at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison found an environment where overworked and stressed soldiers were given little guidance by their superior officers, a newspaper reported Sunday.

In interviews with a dozen members of the 870th Military Police Company, the Contra Costa Times found that the soldiers believed some of their comrades lost their tempers too quickly and mistreated prisoners, although none witnessed the photographed abuses that have now become world famous.

"There was a time I went to my superiors and said people are forgetting they're American soldiers," said Sgt. Joe Martin, a police sergeant in private life. "I saw people losing their temper quicker than was appropriate."

Sgt. Michael Sindar told the newspaper that he saw a 14-year-old Iraqi boy with a broken arm thrown to the ground by soldiers, who then mocked him as he wept and wet himself.

more... http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/9235745p-10160931c.html


Contra Cost Times article

East Bay soldiers back up rationale

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8626075.htm?1c

[Erika]

1. Did They harm us?

What did Iraqi citizens do to ever harm Americans?

[jdj]

2. I just keep thinking about all this time, that we have

been waiting for news about WMD's...

And as it panned out that there are none, I never stopped to think that people were being tortured over there, probably for a solid year, over this false premise.

And not to mention that some of the soldiers still believe that Iraq was complicit in 9/11.

Or that some are maybe so uneducated that they just think that it doesn't matter because the Iraqis are Arabs and all Arabs deserve retribution.

And all of the stuff going wrong that the Pentagon tried to cover up, and keep out of the media, and all of this weighed on the soldiers, all the pressure from above, to come up with something, anything. And how long they had to stay over there, and how the violence did not stop although for some reason they expected it all to be sunshine and roses after Saddam was deposed...and how all of this added up to this mess the U.S. is in now. I blame Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush, ultimately.

I mean, I feel guilty for being so removed, I just never thought they would crack like this, or go to these lengths...

[Leezamarie]

11. Had you never heard of the School of the Americas?

Didn't you know about the massacres in Vietnam, the Iran Contra scandal, the destruction of Afghanistan ? Didn't you see all the bombs dropped on Baghdad and the other cities? Didn't you note the tens of thousands killed, or rather "degraded" during the invasion and hear civilian deaths described as "collateral damage". Why did you imagine the free press were shot down by US troops and the newspapers closed? Why was the power and water not restored? Didn't you not know that DU has destroyed that country's environment forever? Wasn't the policy obviously genocide?

[saigon68]

3. REVENGE CALLED FOR HERE

I can only imagine what the 14 year old boys family is going to do to one of our "DEFENDERS OF FREEDOM"

[riverwalker]

4. it's our foreign policy distilled down to it's essence

the macrocosm in a microcosm thing. We invade a country without cause, in violation of every known International law, and the whole country accepts it. The soldier violates every known human law, invades helpless victims, and the whole country accepts it. I have never been more ashamed to be an American.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. What kind of guidance do you need to know that this kind

of stuff is wrong?

I'm not buying the excuse that these people were poorly trained. ANYBODY with a heart or soul would know better than to go along with this willingly and cheerfully. It's basic instinct.

[Downtown Hound]

6. You took the words right out of my mouth

How much training does one need to know that torture is WRONG? I heard one of the accused whining about how she was never told what the rules of the Geneva Convention were. You don't have to know what they were to know that what was happening there was completely unacceptable!

Yes the soldiers are victims of Bush foreign policy, and what happened at the prison is an extension of our national attitude that Muslims are less than human. But that doesn't excuse a single one of them. I'd like to see anyone of them try this type of thing back here at home and see if the, "I didn't know it was wrong because no one ever trained me properly" excuse would hold up in a court of law.

[BrotherBuzz]

7. Another article on that unit that paints a very disturbing picture

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 3:42:14 AM PST

Notorious Iraq prison, from inside


By Sean Holstege and John Geluardi, STAFF WRITERS


<snip>
"Combat Stress Management was handing out Prozac and Paxil like crazy, trying to get a handle on the frustration and depression," said Spc. David Bischel of Rodeo.

Meanwhile, "there was a war going on between the military intelligence command and the military police command," said his colleague, Sgt. Joe Martin, a 24-year veteran of the Hayward Police Department.

Instead of setting the tone and demanding accountability inside the Hard Site, he said, the higher-ranking military intelligence commanders picked nits about wearing cold-weather fleece jackets in sub-freezing temperatures because they were not the uniform attire.

All of the MPs said they saw commanding Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski only once or twice. Her tours involved a full entourage, but the general who oversaw all Iraq prisons never got out of her air-conditioned Humvee, they said.
<more>
www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~10859~2128373,00.html

I saw a TV interview with Police Sgt. Joe Martin, a 24-year veteran of the Hayward Police Department, on the prison and the way it was run and, well, he was pissed! He stated that he did not want the 800th MP Brigade unit insignia on his uniform (I think the 870th MP Company was assigned to the 800th MP Brigade). He was Pissed, Angry, and Outraged and I wonder if he will be one of the numbers of soldiers that won't be re-enlisting.

[pfitz59]

9. Paxil is a potent orgasm enhancer......

really makes the experience a veritable explosion of pleasure, but.....it has side-efeects. Dizziness, spatial disorientation, extreme sweating, tremors, etc. Rummiy made his wad in the Drug bidness, seems his DOD is now pushing the stuff!

[BrotherBuzz]

10. Jeez Louise! Back in my army days I think....

Saltpeter was the order for the day. I did a google on Pixil and came to the conclusion that we should have left it at home. Paxil blamed for suicide, aggressive behavior! Jeez Louise!

[LeighAnn]

8. "Masturbating twelve times a day" Nice picture.

Thank you, Donald Rumsfeld, for allowing these images become the symbols of America's bravest. Your arrogant and evil agenda has brought shame to our nation such as never before.

Of course how many other shameful chapters of modern history can be laid at a Rumsfeld, Bush, or Cheney's door?