CHAIN OF COMMAND (Sy Hersh New Yorker 5/17)

[huckleberry]

The article with new picture --

by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
How the Department of Defense mishandled the disaster at Abu Ghraib.
Issue of 2004-05-17
Posted 2004-05-09
In his devastating report on conditions at Abu Ghraib prison, in Iraq, Major General Antonio M. Taguba singled out only three military men for praise. One of them, Master-at-Arms William J. Kimbro, a Navy dog handler, should be commended, Taguba wrote, because he “knew his duties and refused to participate in improper interrogations despite significant pressure from the MI”—military intelligence—“personnel at Abu Ghraib.” Elsewhere in the report it became clear what Kimbro would not do: American soldiers, Taguba said, used “military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.”

Taguba’s report was triggered by a soldier’s decision to give Army investigators photographs of the sexual humiliation and abuse of prisoners. These images were first broadcast on “60 Minutes II” on April 28th. Seven enlisted members of the 372nd Military Police Company of the 320th Military Police Battalion, an Army reserve unit, are now facing prosecution, and six officers have been reprimanded. Last week, I was given another set of digital photographs, which had been in the possession of a member of the 320th. According to a time sequence embedded in the digital files, the photographs were taken by two different cameras over a twelve-minute period on the evening of December 12, 2003, two months after the military-police unit was assigned to Abu Ghraib.

more at
http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040517fa_fact2

[bluedog]

1. bush words bite his a**

NEW YORK TIMES
March 18, 2003:

BUSH:

"“In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms.”

“War criminals will be punished,” Bush said. “And it will be no defense to say, ‘I was just following orders.’ ’

[calimary]

19. Oh really, george?

Tell us all about it, george. You still mean it now?

[saigon68]

36. THE JCS GODFATHER

MEYERS AS OFFENSIVE LINEMAN FOR NEOCON CORPORATIONS



WITHOUT A STRONG LAPDOG RUNNING INTERFERENCE
THERE WOULD BE NO BROWN AND ROOT RECEIVING BILLIONS
Of TAXPAYER $$$$$ TO “RECONSTRUCT IRAQ”




There would be no BLACKWATER USA to have its private MERCENARY ARMY flying its own PRIVATE MERCENARY AIR FORCE




to do WHATEVER under the sun it does..




THERE WOULD BE NO MERCENARY THUGS ACTING LIKE RAMBO WITHOUT THIS
PATHETIC LITTLE MAN

[tedzbear]

41. I absolutely detest General Myers.

After watching him spin lies Friday I think he should be impeached along with Rumsfield and Bush.
He is an egotistical jerk. Just look at his face. Geez.

Is it spelled Myers or Meyers?

[saigon68]

43. Its spelled Myers

Although some news stories spell it Meyers

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Sy's got more pics!

Last week, I was given another set of digital photographs, which had been in the possession of a member of the 320th. According to a time sequence embedded in the digital files, the photographs were taken by two different cameras over a twelve-minute period on the evening of December 12, 2003, two months after the military-police unit was assigned to Abu Ghraib.


Looks likes he's going for the jugular. The old one, two punch. We're certainly in for another interesting week.

[Say_What]

45. Democracy NOW interviewed him last week and again this morning

describing what's in those yet to be released photos. Listen at www.democracynow.org

[maddezmom]

3. well, now I know why the Pentagon is releasing the photos to Congress

because the photos are already out there......

[mike_c]

4. Hersh isn't going to let this go...

I smell a Pulitzer Prize. Seymour Hersh is the anti-Novak!

[DS1]

13. I'd hope this wasn't about winning some prize

[mike_c]

16. oh, I didn't mean to suggest that was his motive at all....

I meant that Sy Hersh deserves a Pulitzer for his Abu Ghraib stories. I certainly hope he receives one.

[maddezmom]

5. Sanchez, Abizaid, Rumsfeld, pResident bush*

~~~
The Pentagon official told me that many senior generals believe that, along with the civilians in Rumsfeld’s office, General Sanchez and General John Abizaid, who is in charge of the Central Command, in Tampa, Florida, had done their best to keep the issue quiet in the first months of the year. The official chain of command flows from General Sanchez, in Iraq, to Abizaid, and on to Rumsfeld and President Bush. “You’ve got to match action, or nonaction, with interests,” the Pentagon official said. “What is the motive for not being forthcoming? They foresaw major diplomatic problems.”
~~~

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Sly is nice

Myers, Smith's and Shoomaker's reaction when a senator called for those with Stars on their shoulders to face the music was telling.

It is not political only, they aided and abetted war crimes... under the UCMJ they shoudl all face Aricle 32 proceedings and Court Marials, or in its stead, allied nations should convene an International Military Tribunal, see Nuremberg for example of how you do this. As is, with Myers, being tried by his equals will be hard as the Service Chiefs should be facing the music too.

[2Design]

6. amnesty reports admin had known for over two years about abuses

Take action on story at amnestyusa.org

open letter to bush from amnesty
usa admin has received many reports over the last two years.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=77EC1B8868C9828F80256E8D0041F7B5
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=B04794EDFE431D1885256E8D0051A241



afgan abuse
http://www.counterpunch.com/jones05082004.html

[maddezmom]

7. this new photo is from the 372nd...different than the other photos

[seventhson]

8. slideshow from Newyorker article

Hersch just compared this to the Third Reich 0n Wolf Blitzer

I think it is worse because WE are NOT Nazis. We are supposed to be AGAINST this. WTF? Where is the revolt against these monsters? This is revolting. And Bush/Cheney are responsible. it IS the Third Reich

What is wrong with us? America is sick and the pResident is the sickest, wickedest, most degrading human being to ever hold that office.

http://newyorker.com/online/slideshows/pop/?040510onslpo_prison

BUSH/CHENEY must GO!!!

Impeach, defeat, prosecute, and in the dock at the Hague with ALL of them from Powell, Rice on up. The contractors too.

[amber dog democrat]

9. If you put those MPs in German SS uniforms

It would be just as credible.

So do the ends justify the means?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

21. To the NeoCons.... yes, apparently they do believe the ends

justify the means. They need to be reminded of their own humanity.

[DBoon]

29. I'm afraid they have already forgotten their own humanity

and are unable to recognize what they have forgotten in others.

[Just Me]

35. I believe they think,...that they are ABOVE humanity,...

,...which indicates that they never "got" humanity to begin with. Arrogance and a predatory orientation does that; it precludes a more evolved civility among humanity. Moreover, it is the most destructive force among all other life forms because it includes mass destructive of its own species.

[Wind Dancer]

10. "Navigating to this site may not be safe

do you want to continue?"

That is what popped up when I clicked on the above link! WTF?

[seventhson]

17. Maybe you have a security program that did it. It works fine for me.

nt

[saigon68]

11. WHO THE HELL ARE THE DOG HANDLERS --PEOPLE

among the six low ranking Privates and Corporals????

Don't think so

THE PENTAGON COVER-UP STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN


NBC News later quoted U.S. military officials as saying that the unreleased photographs showed American soldiers “severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi prisoner, and ‘acting inappropriately with a dead body.’ The officials said there also was a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.”

[kentuck]

12. Who put the cuffs and bags over their heads before bringing to prison?

Certainly not any of the 6 or 7 privates or sergeants. Many are involved but are being shut up...especially the CIA operatives that worked as civilians...

[seventhson]

18. The bags look like plastic bags which it is impossible to breath - torture

Horrific torture. Suffocating bags and sexual abuse and sheer terror

heads must roll for this (figuratively)

[kentuck]

33. I think I read that is was sandbags...

Which are now made from a similar material to plastic..

[saigon68]

40. They were plastic already in Nam-- the cloth ones rotted in the humidity

Filled a lot of those bad boys.

They breath a little, but I sure the FUCK wouldn't want one tied to my head.

[saigon68]

23. cuffs and bags on heads Hmmm seen this ??? (updated)

A BAG ON HEAD FOR FREEDOM COLLECTION

By Ralph Rumsfelt Fashion Wear
Created by Chief Designer Wolfman Wolfowitz
Produced by HALLIBURTON HOMEWEAR --A division of (ETR) Exorbitant Tax Ripoffs LLC






This Iraqi man is wearing the latest in Ralph Rumsfelt Fashion Wear.

It's from the "I'M WEARING A BAG ON MY HEAD FOR FREEDOM COLLECTION"

Said Wolfman Wolfowitz chief designer of the collection. "Our work is meant to inspire Co-
Operation on the part of the wearer". He continued, "Sometimes a good swift ass kicking gets
them in a proper frame of mind to wear and model our creations."

Next up US govt approved genital electric clips for 220 voltage !!!!




Wearing the latest fashion in wear for captured Iraqis is Saddam Al Masser of Fallujah. In a
Wolfman Wolfowitz inspired creation, made especially for Iraq-Nam II. Mr. Masser models a not
too tight Designer white Head Bag. When asked how it felt Mr. Masser commented "MH$#)(*&%$$"

This creation is produced and marketed by HALLIBURTON HOMEWEAR –A division of
(ETR) Exorbitant Tax Ripoffs LLC








SOMETIMES IN AN EMERGENCY A PLASTIC SANDBAG HAS TO SUFFICE.



SOMETIMES NEEDING ENCOURAGEMENT

Note the Smiling guard’s admiring Stare at the soon to be covered model’s face. A bit of
coaxing and encouragement is sometimes needed before the model humbly accepts the new
“look” in Fashion wear



Note the smiling expression on the US ” helper” right



This is also done to entertain the troops and these 2 soldiers are properly impressed by the light
carnival atmosphere. Note the broad grin on the defender of “ Freedom” on the left.


SOMETIMES THE IRAQI “Refuses” altogether to Co-Operate. Then more harsh persuasion is
needed for the Fashion Model. Military working dogs without Muzzles are employed to bite the
Model in the SCROTUM and PENIS




HALLIBURTON HOMEWEAR has found that this step assures 92% compliance. For the
recalcitrant, Broom Handles vigorously shoved up the rectum usually up the rate, the final 8%.



The Plane ride sponsored by Myers Airways (Your best friend in the Air)



[seemslikeadream]

27. If fascism is slowly climbing back

It's alright for you if you run with the pack
It's alright if you agree with all they do
If fascism is slowly climbing back
It's not here yet so what's it got to do with you?

The weeds are all around us and they're growing
It'll soon be too late for the knife
If you leave them on the wind that around the world is blowing
You may pay for your silence with your life

So close your eyes, stop your ears,
Shut your mouth and never dare
And if it happens here they'll never come for you
Because they'll know you really didn't care

Words & Music : Peggy Seeger )

[swinney]

14. Sy Hersh said this of Mush Dimbaugh

" the scum of the earth. a pathological liar. Will sell his mother for a story".

Nice guy is Mush Dimbaugh snort snort snort snort

[jmatthan]

20. Reason for using dogs

From my personal experience with my many Shiaite friends in India, dogs are religiously symbolically unclean for them. Even if a drop of saliva from a dog touches their clothes, they have to have a bath and change their clothes.

This was the reason why dogs have been used by the Americans in Iraq against the Iraqis - it is a tremendous religious weapon against the Shiaites.

Can anyone clarify if this is the same for the Sunni community?

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland
http://www.findians.com/educated.html

[ze_dscherman]

30. Should be the same to the Sunni

Dog spit is unclean to all muslims.

[daleo]

34. Even without that, dogs still scare the shit out of people

The fear of being attacked by a dog is primal, especially if you are naked and handcuffed. I recall that Nazis were quite fond of using dogs. But, yes, throw on the religious taboo, and it is even worse.

[happyslug]

37. Islam has a complex views on Dogs

in pre-Mohammad days, Dogs were viewed as unclean by the Arabs of Arabia basically because they was little difference between the dogs of Arabia and the Jackals of Arabia (Both were viewed as savagers that cleaned up the filthy cities that existed world wide until modern sanitation came into use about 1850).

The record is mixed as to Mohammad attitude to dogs, he is believed to have kept Saluki Hunting dogs for example, but also wanted to remove the carrion eating dogs of the City of Mecca and Medina.

It is this ambiguity that leads to the two schools of thought on dogs. The first being that dogs are ONLY permitted for farming, hunting or security, the later that this "ruling from the Prophet" is made up after his death by traditional anti-dog Arabia and than attributed to him.

Given the reports of Dogs and people in the Koran I lean to the later as what Mohammad wanted (i.e. Dogs are good, BUT street dogs are unclean and prohibited if possible). The majority of followers of Islam tend to the later (i.e. anti-dog like pre-Mohammad Arabia was Anti-dog).

Please note Iraq is Arabic in addition to being Islamic, so I would guess most would follow the anti-dog policies of majority of Islamics (Through the Dogs in question are "work" dogs and as such not as unclean as regular dogs to Arabs).

Just a little background on Dogs and Islam, something our troops would be given just to make sure they minimize the number of cultural clashes that have and will occur do to having Americans in an Arabic/Islamic Country.

Anti- Dog Islamic Sites:
http://www.geocities.com/muthram/kalb.html
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=9803
http://www.worldofislam.netfirms.com/dogs.html


Pro-dog Islamic Sites
http://www.masjidtucson.org/God/animals/dogsbeyondtraditionalislam.html
http://www.sparealife.org/fadl.html
http://www.sparealife.org/fadl2.html
http://www.submission.org/pets/dogs2.html

[kskiska]

39. I've read where Musharef of Pakistan has several dogs

He has a Western lifestyle, complete with pets and designer suits.

[happyslug]

46. But Musharef is NOT an ARAB

Musharfe is descendant from Moslems who use to live in India, thus not native to the Indus Valley (the heart of Modern Pakistan).

For more information:
http://www.infopak.gov.pk/Chief/ce_profile_index.htm

[jmatthan]

22. Missing question

Although an excellent piece as usual from Seymour Hersh, one factor which was lacking was a point about the questioning of Rumsfeld which should have received some prominence!!

The Senators and the House members let Rumsfeld repeatedly get away with quoting the 18000 cases, court martials, criminal investigations, etc. etc. and how the Pentagon could not oversee everything!!

They had no problem releasing all those false charges and data about the Muslim Chaplin from Guantanamo Bay to the media post haste!!

Is it not strange that not one of the questioners took Rumsfeld and his friends to task on this issue?

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland
http://www.findians.com/educated.html

[sundancekid]

24. actually, Sen. Hillary Clinton did so quite directly during her turn

her turn was towards the end of the hearing if you get a chance to see it where you are ... interestingly, rummy, displayed his own version of deer-in-headlights syndrome, then managed to get through Hillary's turn, and when Sen. Pryor (D-Arkansas) followed her with a couple of well put questions, rummy's personality just had a blow-out ... IMHO, that was the delayed reaction (his usual MO) to the very point you raise ...
speaking of blow-out, this is also the point where he lets the cat out of the bag about it being the President's direct position to loosen up (or some other such words) the applicability of the Geneva Convention rules ... there was NO DOUBT in my own mind that Sen. Clinton got him on his BS of secrecy to protect "influence from command and control" -- and what was worse -- he knew she got him, ergo the diarrhea of the mouth with the next questioner (also, IMHO) ...

anybody else get that sense or feeling?

[saigon68]

25. I agree she's very very shrewd and thorough

Say what you will about her, she is a genius when it comes to this stuff. Nothing escapes her notice. One very smart individual !!

[maddezmom]

26. kick

[jdj]

28. We are the new Nazis.

I don't even think the neo-cons fully appreciate the fact that these pictures will never, ever, ever, go away. It's even worse for them then the nazis because everyone is dowloading these pics, you don't have to go to a library to see them. They will follow the U.S. around forever, and for those who really believed in the so-called "moral high ground" of the U.S. it is officially dead now. Sy Hersch just sounded it's death knell.

[Ilsa]

38. Apparently Maureen Dowd did.

She mentioned Rum's testiness and rudeness to a Congressman during the hearing in her column from either today (Sunday) or yesterday. I heard him also, but didn't get to hear Hilary's questions. It was more of that "...hate America first..." blah blah blah.

[loyalsister]

42. To elaborate.....

There should be outrage over the law application issue and it's relation to profiteering.
The private MI contractors have a great set up. They aren't subject to military laws, and have indoctrinated soldiers to manipulate into doing their dirty work.
They operated a top down operation without looking like the worst element should a scandal break- as it has. That is, to the naive public.
Let's not forget our government paid these corporations to set these soldiers up to take this bait. We are in big big trouble.
The biggest question-
Will Bush condemned the private contractors?
Never in a million years, and the public won't know the difference. As long as he shows plenty of outrage towards the soldiers, he's the same likable guy they've come to know and love.

[JoFerret]

31. Taguba will pay the price not the guilty in the pentagon and command.

Taguba did not (protect himself).... “He’s not regarded as a hero in some circles in the Pentagon,” a retired Army major general said of Taguba. “He’s the guy who blew the whistle, and the Army will pay the price for his integrity. The leadership does not like to have people make bad news public.”

Good article. Helps with the who knew what when questions. Above is in the final paragraph.

[Miss Authoritiva]

32. Who's hyperventilating now, Mr. Rumsfeld?

"Complaints about America’s treatment of prisoners, Rumsfeld said in early 2002, amounted to 'isolated pockets of international hyperventilation.'”


And for the truly dysfunctional among us, there's this:

"Geoffrey Miller was transferred from Guantanamo and named head of prison operations in Iraq. 'We have changed this-—trust us,' Miller told reporters in early May."

[maddezmom]

44. kick