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remfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 06:50 PM
Original message
U.S. Army report on Iraqi prisoner abuse (leaked to MSNBC)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001/

Complete text of Article 15-6 Investigation of the 800th
Military Police Brigade by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Reads like a report on the Guards at Bergen Belsen
Edited on Tue May-04-04 06:57 PM by saigon68
a. (U) SPC Sabrina Harman, 372nd MP Company, stated in her sworn statement regarding the incident where a detainee was placed on a box with wires attached to his fingers, toes, and penis, “that her job was to keep detainees awake.”
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Nice name.....Sabrina.
Too bad you are a WAR CRIMINAL!
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. If there were only the word of released detainees to go by,
who here would believe this shit?

A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee

Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees

Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.


...

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. They don't have photos?
"Military Police, though adept at passive collection of intelligence within a facility, do not participate in Military Intelligence supervised interrogation sessions. Recent intelligence collection in support of Operation Enduring Freedom posited a template whereby military police actively set favorable conditions for subsequent interviews. Such actions generally run counter to the smooth operation of a detention facility, attempting to maintain its population in a compliant and docile state."
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. ITS MONSTROUS-- but The Sheep will forget this.
THE CHIMPANZEE'S Handlers need him to capture 80% of the sheep who bother to vote.

A lot of the Sheep about 60% of the total never vote. These are the animals who are not affected in any fashion by this torture. The only torture for them is having to wait a couple extra minutes for their Super sized meal at the MC Don's drive thru.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Hey, saigon68,...even sheep know a Jackal,...
,...and you and I are caring enough to value those sheep and work very hard to protect them by empowering them to become human, again. Evolution is a process, not a bottom-line,...yes? *smile*
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Agreed justme
Edited on Tue May-04-04 08:00 PM by saigon68
In spite of all of that we have to maintain some modicum of civilization in the country. Agreed my friend I get wound up at times like the anger I felt at reading this


(U) SPC Sabrina Harman, 372nd MP Company, stated in her sworn statement regarding the incident where a detainee was placed on a box with wires attached to his fingers, toes, and penis, “that her job was to keep detainees awake.”

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. I understand the frustration,...
Edited on Tue May-04-04 08:54 PM by Just Me
,...but she, too, was mislead. She must be held responsible for choosing to throw away her humanity. All those who guided her must ALSO (without question) be held responsible.

And, we must be VERY careful about assigning responsibility with a broad stroke.

Just remember, we all contribute to the "worth" of humanity in addition to condemning each human being.

Doncha' think? :bounce:
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. Rummy saying the "public was informed" !!
<snip>
For his part, Rumsfeld listed the various military investigations of the alleged prison abuse and argued that the public was apprised of the incidents, including a brief news release issued by U.S. Central Command on Jan. 16 announcing the investigation and comments to reporters that day by Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the military's deputy director of operations in Baghdad. Rumsfeld said that although it takes time, the investigations must be handled properly so that justice can be served.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A452-2004May4.html
***
So they "informed the public" THREE days before the investigation was ordered?
***
1. (U) On 19 January 2004, Lieutenant General (LTG) Ricardo S. Sanchez, Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Seven (CJTF-7) requested that the Commander, US Central Command, appoint an Investigating Officer (IO) in the grade of Major General (MG) or above to investigate the conduct of operations within the 800th Military Police (MP) Brigade.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001
***
Not bloody likely. Where is this PUBLIC PROCLAMATION of inquiry?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They probably posted a blip on their cyberspace,...
,...and will call that "informing the public".
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Was Kimmitt even there in Jan??
I know I will track this down . just not in a research mode right now ...
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. They are called
PRISONERS OF WAR.

We need to stress this.. they have us using THEIR TERMS.. and their terms are created for a reason, to allow them to skip out on their Responsibilities re The Geneva Convention, etc..

POWs.

even the local police are using the terms, because they don't have the right to ARREST you for some things.


monsters. they are creatures.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. DID MSNBC PULL IT??
File not found.

Our Web servers cannot find the page or file you asked for.

The link you followed may be broken or expired.

Go to our MSNBC home page, the NBC Sports home page, or try searching our Archives.


I was reading it, went to hit another link and went back and it GONE. Is it just me?
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Link doesn't work -- report pulled?
Did MSNBC pull the link?

I got 404 when I clicked and the same when I went to MSNBC site and clicked.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. the long arm of bushco*...did anyone take any screen shots?
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. here it is
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. I just tried (1:45 am MDT)
to get it. It took a long time and it only partially loaded. Could be very busy.
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Imalittleteapot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. Scrubbed? Link isn't working. I got to the page,
but it says "file not found".
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. So much for the free press...
...hate that I missed it. Maybe it'll appear at The Memory Hole sometime.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I hope, was not fast enough
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. its still up
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. thanks...thought it got pulled.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. Seymour Hersch broke the story in "The New Yorker". Deja vu!
Edited on Tue May-04-04 08:23 PM by DemoTex
Seymour Hersch won a Pulitzer Prize for breaking the My Lai, Vietnam massacre story in 1970. So, tell me again how Iraq is so different from Vietnam. We never learn.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Ok I'll play
this is different from Nam in the following ways

What we saw last month was the 1920 Arab Revolt all over again... we never learned that lesson or rather the brits did not

What I am reading on that report is very unlike even Mai Lay, but close to that other war, and this time we are not the good guys.

There are many ways this is not Vietman, in that sense they are correct, but only because this is FAR WORST than Nam.

Oh and another way it is unlike Nam... our casualties for the first year have surpased Nam's first three years.

:-(
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Were you in 'Nam?
Edited on Tue May-04-04 09:44 PM by DemoTex
You are right. Far worse than the 'Nam.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. My view exactly ..
Edited on Tue May-04-04 10:15 PM by drfemoe
It is far worse .. unparalleled in modern history.
Another point .. we didn't go into VN with a *plan* to stay FOREVER.
We didn't open the largest CIA office in the WORLD in VN (which is the plan after 6/30/04 for Baghdad)
We didn't plan to use VN for a base of world domination (did we?).
Worse .. (correct me if my facts are wrong)
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I really love Seymour,...
,...he is "principled"!!!

I love that man!!! :loveya:

Is he single?
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Did you see "The Trials of Henry Kissinger?"
Edited on Tue May-04-04 09:56 PM by DemoTex
Seymour was absolutely great in that film.

I hate that this thing with the Iraq prisoners happened (although it was as predictable as the sunrise). Thank goodness for Seymour Hirsch to "afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted." Another Pulitzer? I sure hope so.

On edit: Ironically, I spent the weekend in Columbus, Georgia for the wedding of a neice. Some of the wedding guest were wondering how buzz-headed E-3s could afford rooms in the Wyndham. Grinding my teeth, I related how mirror-image it was to my pre-Vietnam days at the Desoto Hilton in Savannah. It really pissed me off. Big time. These young men sat and drank, quietly (as we did in Savannah 35 years ago). The GOP elite did not like their presence in the hotel. Their presence was - too much - a reminder of a 725+ body count, and these GOP regulars would rather not hear that.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. No. I am a "babe" at 41,...and only carry the instincts of a "babe",...
,...of the "pains" associated with all that. All I can say is that, there has never been a reconciliation,...in our nation,...and I have always known that.

AND,...we have failed to define our purpose, outside of "dominating" that nation of Vietnam. We never even defined what that "domination" thingy was all about.

Our country is going to fall completely apart IF we fail to advocate and cling to the BASIC principles (set all other STUFF aside) of human worth and dignity and hope for happiness.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. Report is back on line
recomend copy and paste to word processors
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
28. Taguba report: key details
Here are some key details that stand out as I read the report for the first time. One can't help but think of Hogan's Heroes, with us as the incompetent jailors. And without the laugh track.

...

14. (U) Formal charges under the UCMJ were preferred against these Soldiers and an Article-32 Investigation conducted by LTC Gentry. He recommended a general court martial for the four accused, which BG Karpinski supported. Despite this documented abuse, there is no evidence that BG Karpinski ever attempted to remind 800th MP Soldiers of the requirements of the Geneva Conventions regarding detainee treatment or took any steps to ensure that such abuse was not repeated.

...

12. (U) There was a severe lapse in the accountability of detainees at the Abu Ghraib Prison Complex. The 320th MP Battalion used a self-created “change sheet” to document the transfer of a detainee from one location to another. For proper accountability, it is imperative that these change sheets be processed and the detainee manifest be updated within 24 hours of movement. At Abu Ghraib, this process would often take as long as 4 days to complete. This lag-time resulted in inaccurate detainee Internment Serial Number (ISN) counts, gross differences in the detainee manifest and the actual occupants of an individual compound, and significant confusion of the MP Soldiers. The 320th MP Battalion S-1, CPT Theresa Delbalso, and the S-3, MAJ David DiNenna, explained that this breakdown was due to the lack of manpower to process change sheets in a timely manner.

...

22. (U) The documentation provided to this investigation identified 27 escapes or attempted escapes from the detention facilities throughout the 800th MP Brigade’s AOR. Based on my assessment and detailed analysis of the substandard accountability process maintained by the 800th MP Brigade, it is highly likely that there were several more unreported cases of escape that were probably “written off” as administrative errors or otherwise undocumented. 1LT Lewis Raeder, Platoon Leader, 372nd MP Company, reported knowing about at least two additional escapes (one from a work detail and one from a window) from Abu Ghraib (BCCF) that were not documented. LTC Dennis McGlone, Commander, 744th MP Battalion, detailed the escape of one detainee at the High Value Detainee Facility who went to the latrine and then outran the guards and escaped. Lastly, BG Janis Karpinski, Commander, 800th MP Brigade, stated that there were more than 32 escapes from her holding facilities, which does not match the number derived from the investigation materials.

23. (U) The Abu Ghraib and Camp Bucca detention facilities are significantly over their intended maximum capacity while the guard force is undermanned and under resourced. This imbalance has contributed to the poor living conditions, escapes, and accountability lapses at the various facilities. The overcrowding of the facilities also limits the ability to identify and segregate leaders in the detainee population who may be organizing escapes and riots within the facility.

...

29. (U) The Iraqi guards at Abu Ghraib BCCF) demonstrate questionable work ethics and loyalties, and are a potentially dangerous contingent within the Hard-Site. These guards have furnished the Iraqi criminal inmates with contraband, weapons, and information. Additionally, they have facilitated the escape of at least one detainee.

...

34. (U) The following riots, escapes, and shootings have been documented and reported to this Investigation Team. Although there is no data from other missions of similar size and duration to compare the number of escapes with, the most significant factors derived from these reports are twofold. First, investigations and SIRs lacked critical data needed to evaluate the details of each incident. Second, each investigation seems to have pointed to the same types of deficiencies; however, little to nothing was done to correct the problems and to implement the recommendations as was ordered by BG Karpinski, nor was there any command emphasis to ensure these deficiencies were corrected:

...

b. (U) 9 June 03- Riot and shootings of five detainees at Camp Cropper. (115th MP Battalion) Several detainees allegedly rioted after a detainee was subdued by MPs of the 115th MP Battalion after striking a guard in compound B of Camp Cropper. A 15-6 investigation by 1LT Magowan (115th MP Battalion, Platoon Leader) concluded that a detainee had acted up and hit an MP. After being subdued, one of the MPs took off his DCU top and flexed his muscles to the detainees, which further escalated the riot. The MPs were overwhelmed and the guards fired lethal rounds to protect the life of the compound MPs, whereby 5 detainees were wounded. Contributing factors were poor communications, no clear chain of command, facility-obstructed views of posted guards, the QRF did not have non-lethal equipment, and the SOP was inadequate and outdated. (ANNEX 5)

...

g. (U) 08 November 03- Escape of detainees # 115089, # 151623, # 151624, # 116734, # 116735, and # 116738 from Abu Ghraib (320th MP Battalion). Several detainees allegedly escaped at 2022 from Compound 8 of the Ganci encampment, Abu Ghraib. An SIR was initiated by MAJ DiNenna (320th MP Battalion, S-3). The SIR indicated that 5-6 prisoners escaped from the North end of the compound, but there is no method of escape listed in the SIR. No information on findings, contributing factors, or corrective action has been provided to this investigation team.

h. (U) 24 November 03- Riot and shooting of 12 detainees # 150216, #150894, #153096, 153165, #153169, #116361, #153399, #20257, #150348, #152616, #116146, and #152156 at Abu Ghraib(320th MP Battalion). Several detainees allegedly began to riot at about 1300 in all of the compounds at the Ganci encampment. This resulted in the shooting deaths of 3 detainees, 9 wounded detainees, and 9 injured US Soldiers. A 15-6 investigation by COL Bruce Falcone (220th MP Brigade, Deputy Commander) concluded that the detainees rioted in protest of their living conditions, that the riot turned violent, the use of non-lethal force was ineffective, and, after the 320th MP Battalion CDR executed “Golden Spike,” the emergency containment plan, the use of deadly force was authorized. Contributing factors were lack of comprehensive training of guards, poor or non-existent SOPs, no formal guard-mount conducted prior to shift, no rehearsals or ongoing training, the mix of less than lethal rounds with lethal rounds in weapons, no AARs being conducted after incidents, ROE not posted and not understood, overcrowding, uniforms not standardized, and poor communication between the command and Soldiers.

...

6. (U) I also find, as did MG Ryder’s Team, that the 800th MP Brigade as a whole, was understrength for the mission for which it was tasked. Army Doctrine dictates that an I/R Brigade can be organized with between 7 and 21 battalions, and that the average battalion size element should be able to handle approximately 4000 detainees at a time. This investigation indicates that BG Karpinski and her staff did a poor job allocating resources throughout the Iraq JOA. Abu Ghraib (BCCF) normally housed between 6000 and 7000 detainees, yet it was operated by only one battalion. In contrast, the HVD Facility maintains only about 100 detainees, and is also run by an entire battalion.

...

9. (U) I find that this ambiguous command relationship was exacerbated by a CJTF-7 Fragmentary Order (FRAGO) 1108 issued on 19 November 2003. Paragraph 3.C.8, Assignment of 205th MI Brigade Commander’s Responsibilities for the Baghdad Central Confinement Facility, states as follows:

3.C.8. A. (U) 205 MI BRIGADE.

3.C.8. A. 1. (U) EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY COMMANDER 205 MI BRIGADE ASSUMES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BAGHDAD CONFINEMENT FACILITY (BCCF) AND IS APPOINTED THE FOB COMMANDER. UNITS CURRENTLY AT ABU GHRAIB (BCCF) ARE TACON TO 205 MI BRIGADE FOR “SECURITY OF DETAINEES AND FOB PROTECTION.”

Although not supported by BG Karpinski, FRAGO 1108 made all of the MP units at Abu Ghraib TACON to the Commander, 205th MI Brigade. This effectively made an MI Officer, rather than an MP Officer, responsible for the MP units conducting detainee operations at that facility. This is not doctrinally sound due to the different missions and agendas assigned to each of these respective specialties.

...

OTHER FINDINGS/OBSERVATIONS

1. (U) Due to the nature and scope of this investigation, I acquired the assistance of Col (Dr.) Henry Nelson, a USAF Psychiatrist, to analyze the investigation materials from a psychological perspective. He determined that there was evidence that the horrific abuses suffered by the detainees at Abu Ghraib (BCCF) were wanton acts of select soldiers in an unsupervised and dangerous setting. There was a complex interplay of many psychological factors and command insufficiencies.

...

4. (U) The individual Soldiers and Sailors that we observed and believe should be favorably noted include:

a. (U) Master-at-Arms First Class William J. Kimbro, US Navy Dog Handler, knew his duties and refused to participate in improper interrogations despite significant pressure from the MI personnel at Abu Ghraib.

b. (U) SPC Joseph M. Darby, 372nd MP Company discovered evidence of abuse and turned it over to military law enforcement.

c. (U) 1LT David O. Sutton, 229th MP Company, took immediate action and stopped an abuse, then reported the incident to the chain of command.

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. A FEW REFUSED THE ILLEGAL ORDERS FROM THE CIA
4. (U) The individual Soldiers and Sailors that we observed and believe should be favorably noted include:

a. (U) Master-at-Arms First Class William J. Kimbro, US Navy Dog Handler, knew his duties and refused to participate in improper interrogations despite significant pressure from the MI personnel at Abu Ghraib.

b. (U) SPC Joseph M. Darby, 372nd MP Company discovered evidence of abuse and turned it over to military law enforcement.

c. (U) 1LT David O. Sutton, 229th MP Company, took immediate action and stopped an abuse, then reported the incident to the chain of command.
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Leezamarie Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. William J. Kimbro, US Navy Dog Handler, knew his duties and refused
To participate. Nice one Bill. You and your dog are not war criminals like those other curs and bitches.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
34. duplicate
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