Vietnam vets slam Kerry

[Snellius]

Drudge is running with this ludicrous story:

WASHINGTON, May 4 (UPI) -- Sen. John Kerry's accounts of his service in Vietnam and his statements that he witnessed atrocities were attacked as fabrications and political opportunism Tuesday by a group of Vietnam veterans who served with him personally or in the units affiliated with him during his short tour of duty in Southeast Asia.

The veterans, including some of Kerry's former commanders and shipmates, have formed an organization called "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" and called on the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee to authorize release of all his service records, including medical records.
...
"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces," said retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, chairman of the organization. "This is not a political issue. It is a matter of honesty."

Hoffman said Kerry had recently telephoned him and spent 45 minutes attempting to convince Hoffman of not proceeding with the formation of the organization, which Democrats Tuesday attacked as a shill for Bush.

http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/05040000aaa00c01.upi&Sys=siteia&Fid=WORLDNEW&Type=News&Filter=World%20News

I wonder if this Roy Hoffman is the same Roy Hoffman, a gung-ho Kurtz-like commander recounted in Bob Kerrey's Vietnam story:

In April 1969, Kerrey received a Bronze Star for his actions at Thanh Phong. The Navy citation reads: "When fire was encountered, Lt. Kerry dispersed his men and returned the fire killing fourteen Viet Cong. Then, as he and his men were returning to a canal for extraction…enemy movement was detected. The ensuing firefight ended with seven more aggressors killed."

This is sort of interesting, as an indication of the blizzard of murderous euphemism by which the armed forces covered up its pillage in the Vietnamese countryside. One of the myths due to die as a result of Vistica’s article is that which holds the war could have been won sensibly and cleanly if the "suits" back in Washington had merely left the military men to their own devices. In this light, one of the great merits of Vistica’s article is its portrait of the Kurtz-like psychopath who commanded Kerrey’s Navy task force, Capt. Roy Hoffmann: "I told them you not only have authority," Hoffmann now says, "I damned well expect action. If there were men there and they didn’t kill them or capture them, you’d hear from me."

So, pardon, but why is everyone so worried about a medal? In particular, why is the press so up in arms over Kerrey’s announcement that he won’t return it? It’s the Navy’s to award, after all, and at Thanh Phong Kerrey did exactly what the Navy had asked of him. Anyway, he adds, "I’ve never worn that damn medal." Here he has the right perspective. The question at hand is not whether Bob Kerrey should keep his Bronze Star but whether he should be prosecuted.

http://www.nypress.com/14/18/news&columns/beans.cfm

[CO Liberal]

1. Here's a Story About This Group

It's a Salon subscription story. This group is composed of right-wing hatchet-men. - Wayne

* * * * *

Smear Boat Veterans for Bush

The "swift boat" veterans attacking John Kerry's war record are led by veteran right-wing operatives using the same vicious techniques they used against John McCain four years ago.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
By Joe Conason

May 4, 2004 |

The latest conservative outfit to fire an angry broadside against John Kerry's heroic war record is "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" , which today launches a campaign to brand the Democrat "unfit to serve as commander in chief." Billing itself as representing the "other 97 percent of veterans" from Kerry's Navy unit who don't support his presidential candidacy, the group insists that all presidential candidates must be "totally honest and forthcoming" about their military service.

These "swift boat vets" claim still to be furious about Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony against the war in which he spoke about atrocities in Indochina's "free fire zones." More than three decades later, facing the complicated truth about Vietnam remains difficult. But this group's political connections make clear that its agenda is to target the election of 2004.

Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact; eternal Kerry antagonist and Dallas attorney John E. O'Neill, law partner of Spaeth's late husband, Tex Lezar; and retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as "the classic body-count guy" who "wanted hooches destroyed and people killed."

<more>

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/05/04/swift/index_np.html

[saigon68]

17. These are the THUGS AND HOODLUMS KERRY testified about

They are fully capable of the WAR CRIMES at ABU GHRAIB.

A number of other LIARS and NEOCON operatives were Mercenaries in the SAXBY CHAMBLISS campaign against MAX CLELAND.. I know --- I watched these SLIMEBALLS operate. They are the dirty tricksters of the NIXON Campaign resurrected in 2004.

We will out them --- they are paid whores.

[othermeans]

21. Max Cleland Ad

I would like to get a copy of that Max Cleland Ad where they morphed his face with Osama bin Laden, just to show my Republican friends how much the Conservatives appreciate what the veterans have done. I guess three limbs weren't enough. Those bastards make me want to puke. I also tried to get a copy of that letter that is supposedly signed by all of Kerry's men and his commanding officers so I could research the names but no luck yet.

Anybody be able to help me out on either one? I'll gladly cover costs.

You might just be a Republican if you told a homeless guy with no shoes to pull himself up by his bootstraps. Apologies to Jeff Foxworthy

[Just Me]

25. They are being crushed, right now,...

,...I swear I am witnessing a total media backlash (with the exception of the radical right-wing neo-fascists). Today has been an amazing day of "exposure",...about facts and truth,...on MOST mainstream media.

They are being crushed. :bounce:

That makes me rediscover my confidence in the capacity of my country.

[PaDUer]

18. I was fwd an email from someone about

a rally that's being planned and they have a website..here's the email--

Brothers and Sisters,
I am part of a group of Vetnam vets who have vowed to inform the
American public that Senator John Kerry is not part of our "Band of
Brothers" and is not worthy to be our Commander in Chief. Although
he is a decorated Vietnam vet, his actions after his service in
Vietnam contributed greatly to the treatment we received upon our
return. We have formed a corporation to promote our agenda and to
host an Anti-Kerry rally at the West front of the Capitol Building
in Washington DC at 1400 hours on September 12. I invite you all to
attend and help us convince the American public that John Kerry lied
when he testified before a Congressional committee in 1971 that
American soldiers routinely raped and killed civilians, burned
villages, mutilated bodies and tortured prisoners with the full
knowledge of our commanders during the VN war. Only we can tell the
truth. It is time for us to set the record straight once and for
all. John Kerry is not worthy of the most powerful position in the
world. The media has given him a pass on the crimes of his past.
We must stop him before it is too late. This is not a pro-Bush
rally. We are strictly apolitical. Our only intent is to expose
the lies that John Kerry and his "phony" anti-war vets perpetrated
against us.
Please join us in September to prevent this man from making a
mockery of the Presidency, No one who marched under the flag of a
hostile foreign power should sit in the Oval Office. I am attaching
our first notice and invite you to go to our website
www.KerryLied.com to learn more about the actions being taken by
your fellow Vietnam veterans to expose Kerry's lies. Hope to see
all of you in DC. It is time to right this wrong that has stolen
our integrity and the honor and respect of our fallen brothers.

KERRY LIED . . . while good men died:
a gathering of Vietnam veterans from across America
Where: The West Front of the U.S. Capitol Building
Washington, DC
When: Sunday, Sept 12, 2004 2:00-4:00 PM (EDT)
Why: To tell the truth about Vietnam veterans.
To counter the lies told about Vietnam veterans by John Kerry
Printable flyer Click here

GROUND RULES
1. This is a peaceful remembrance of the virtues of those with whom
we served in Vietnam - those who lived and those who died. We will
tell their story and how that contrasts with the label of war
criminals given them by John Kerry in his infamous 1971 testimony.
2. No shouting or contact with others with different opinions: we
fought for their rights then, and we respect their rights now.
3. We do not invite or affiliate with any organization, but all
Vietnam veterans and their families are invited as individuals.
4. Politics: this is NOT a pro-Bush rally. Republican, Democrat and
independent Vietnam veterans are welcome as brothers and sisters.
Veterans of other wars and eras are invited as honored guests.
Others concerned about how John Kerry vilified Vietnam veterans are
warmly invited. Our gathering is to remember those with whom we
served, thereby giving the lie to John Kerry's smear against a
generation of fine young men.
5. B.G. "Jug" Burkett, author of "Stolen Valor," will speak at our
event. Jug has debunked countless imposters who falsely claimed to
be Vietnam veterans or falsely claimed awards. Jug recommends we
refrain from dragging fatigues out of mothballs. Please dress
properly and leave the imposters to dress as former soldiers.
• Dress code: Business casual - nice slacks and shirt and
shoes, coat and tie optional.
• Special Requests: NO UNIFORM REMNANTS, NO UNIFORMS UNLESS ON
ACTIVE DUTY Hats, such as VFW, American Legion, unit hats, etc., OK.
If you have your DD214, bring a copy in your pocket.
6. Selected members will wear badges identifying them as authorized
to speak to the press about our event. Others who speak to the press
will speak only for themselves.
7. The program will be controlled in an attempt to stay on message.
Speakers are encouraged not to engage in speculative criticism of
John Kerry, but they are encouraged to (a) stick to known and
undisputed facts about John Kerry while (b) reminding America of the
true honor and courage of our brothers in battle in Vietnam.
8. Make this event one of pride in America, an event you would be
proud to have your mother or your young children attend.

[54anickel]

24. Rove's tactict to divide veterans - it will be interesting to see how many

turn out for the event. September is a long way off, a lot could happen between now and then.

[PaDUer]

27. It just goes to prove

how really dangerous this entire mob is.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Veterans are not a monolithic group

and neither are the Latino, the African-American, and the Jewish communities, to name only four.

[54anickel]

32. Sorry, didn't mean to infer they were. Apologize if I offended anyone,

the subject of Rove attempting to put Kerry on the defensive regarding his anti-war stance after Viet Nam by attempting to promote the issue as a wedge and, more importantly,keeping Kerry off message on Iraq and the economy has been discussed in other threads - that's where my thought process was coming from on this post.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Rove, Cheney & Co are chicken hakws, while Bush was AWOL

They sure have a lot of room to talk about when it comes to Kerry's service record.

Vietnam is not an issue. The lessons from Vietnam, which we seem to have forgotten in Iraq, are an issue.

[Just Me]

26. They are still stuck in the past and use Goebbels tactics against people.

How sick is THAT?

:puke:

Shame on those who would dare try to manipulate the American people in such ways, treating the American like they are nothing but morons. How the fuck DARE they treat our people like pawns!!!

:puke:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. No uniforms means any non vet wingnut bozos are welcome!

And they can artifically pump up their #'s by having Rove's nephews attend.

[saigon68]

38. THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE US THERE

A little scruffy and very angry. They will need the cops to prevent someone from getting their ass kicked.


We need to go there and say hi to them







The second and last Nixon Coronation Convention Miami 1972

Ron Kovic in the chair front far right

[Sheila Samples]

29. To CO Liberal

The campaign to discredit Kerry is going full-bore, with all the old players loading up and moving out. As usual, The Wall Street Journal is leading the pack with its smarmy "fair and balanced" journalism.

Found this today on the Campaign Desk website. Wish Joe had seen this, or had mentioned it in his Salon article, to show how widespread the effort is -- and how frantic the regime is...


Distortion
Ambush by Pull-Quote

We're not much into critiquing typographical devices here at Campaign Desk, but there comes a time. This is that time.

Before an article is laid to bed at a magazine or newspaper, editors squabble over something called the pull-quote (also known variously as the billboard, or teaser, or blurb). Boxed off and printed in a larger font, the pull-quote is a typographical device that calls attention to a particularly biting passage in a piece, or highlights the underlying theme. It's standard practice to "pull" the passage verbatim from the article, and to put quote marks around it if it is in fact a direct quotation.

Unfortunately, at The Wall Street Journal, standard practice went down the toilet today with the pull-quote the newspaper employed in an op-ed article by known Kerry critic and Vietnam veteran John O'Neill.

We can't show you the print edition of the Journal. But, while the pull-quote is refashioned as a sub-head in the online version, we assure you it appears differently in the print edition. It is set off, boxed, placed in boldface italic type, and surrounded by quotation marks, smack in the middle of the piece.

Here's the pull-quote verbatim:

'I was on Mr. Kerry's boat in Vietnam. He doesn't deserve to be commander in chief.'

We understand the appeal that passage had to an editor. It's a memorable quote. It would be even more memorable if it were something O'Neill wrote.

But it isn't. Those words are nowhere to be found in the accompanying article.

What O'Neill does write is that, while he was "on" the same boat that Kerry commanded, he wasn't there when Kerry was. As he makes clear, he in fact was shipped in to succeed Kerry as commander of the boat once Kerry was removed from the combat zone.

Additionally, while it's safe to conclude that John O'Neill isn't going to be voting for John Kerry anytime soon, at no point in the article does he write the words, "he doesn't deserve to be commander in chief."

The only good thing that can come of this is the fact that the false quote is so compelling that it's bound to pull readers into the article - where they will learn what O'Neill really wrote.

--Thomas Lang

http://www.campaigndesk.org/

Ish

[gold_bug]

36. the whole time I was wathing them on C-SPAN

I was asking, who is funding these guys?

I'm not surprised to find hardcore GOP people running the show from behind the scenes.

[minkyboodle]

37. Thanks for the article CO Liberal

My dad is a Vietnam Vet and he gets emails from a bunch of right wing asshole types. I sent this to him. I hope it does some good I'm afraid it might not. The whole thing is so unbelievably frustrating.
Scott

[VolcanoJen]

39. Beautiful, and referenced by James Carville on XFire today

'bout time...

[NJ Blue Collar]

41. I wonder if all the Swift Boat

vets for 'truth' are really swift boat vets.

[smiley_glad_hands]

2. Kerry just needs his own ANG Who didn't See Bush group.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. That's a pretty big group

bigger than the ones who saw him, which is currently zero.

[hannah]

4. Records

And Bush needs to open up that Dui record. Don't ya think?

[Iceburg]

10. Forget the DUI we need to talk to his neurologist

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. But no major press is running wiht it

they have been trounced by.... war crimes, the real deal

[Snellius]

7. CBS News just covered it but attacked the attackers

as partisan Republican hatchet men, part of the same dirty tricks operation that went after McCain in 2000 and Max Cleland in 2002.

[Iceburg]

11. Just saw a short clip on CBS

but it was counter-balanced nicely by a report of the same bush attack machine that went after mccain, cleland and others.

[sandnsea]

6. Now that is really interesting

The same Roy Hoffman that is saying John Kerry is lying about Vietnam atrocities ordered Bob Kerrey to commit atrocities??? Looks like it to me. Anybody know?

[drscm]

8. CBS News is running with the story - plus a response...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/04/eveningnews/main615566.shtml

[hannah]

13. vietnam

I don't understand why they are forcing this issue. My husband is a Vietnam vet. We have an appeal with the BVA, and been fighting since 1993. I have never come across another veteran that has served that would even consider being hostile to a comrade. I don't get it.

[drscm]

14. Oops! The freepers are really POed at CBS and

want to start a fax campaign about their bias in reporting. How dare they report two sides of a story.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1129596/posts

[fearnobush]

19. Counter Fax the Freep Sex Machine for Media Whoredom.

Fax CBS and complain about their (Free Republic) Lie bias machine. Tell CBS it's an organized GOP attack by a few greedy republicans out to end all last vestiges of truth in the media. Use this link to fax for free: http://www.tpc.int/sendfax.html

Use this # for CBS News: [phone]

(I see the Freepers need directions on how to make a phone call, sad)
Enter the number EXACTLY how it reads above ([phone]).

[Just Me]

9. We have got to figure a way to end this bullsh*t!!!

These "attack dog" recruiters,...who the hell are they?

They need to be exposed for what they do and taken down. I'll bet there is PUH-LENTY in their histories to shame them!!!

:grr:

[demdave]

15. They are a "527" organization, just like "MoveOn".

SwiftVets.com is a tax exempt non-partisan public advocacy “527”organization consisting of, and limited to, former military officers and enlisted men who served in Vietnam on U.S. Navy “Swift Boats.” or in affiliated commands.



While swiftvets.com is separate and distinct from the Swift Boat Sailors’ Association, there are many individuals who are members of both. Swiftvets.com essentially serves as an informational clearing-house and internet repository of information related to the swiftvets.com mission.

http://www.swiftvets.com/Index2.htm

Yet another reason to not want 527 orgs.

[Just Me]

16. No. I am talking about the backgrounds of those who are forming,...

,...these "attack dog" groups. You know, like Paul Weyrich and his (for real) neo-nazi and nazi associations. They need to be exposed.

[damnraddem]

12. And My Lai didn't happen?

Undoubtedly just a story cooked up between Kerry and the librul media?

What a bunch of nitwits! The atrocities are part of the record of the war.

[xchrom]

20. it's about honesty?

that's funny swift boat.
and your concern over honesty and bush is where exactly?

[saigon68]

22. THEY ARE PATHETIC TROLLS

I'M SURPRISED THEIR HERO RUSH ISN'T THERE


Complete with the LARGE PURPLE BOIL on his ASS

[PaDUer]

23. They certainly are..

they're just PO'd that Kerry isn't R, and has class.

[Catt03]

28. Unpatriotic, anti American, traitors and psychiopaths

Here are some more disgusing remarks.


Washington (CNSNews.com) - John Kerry's former swift boat commanders and colleagues on Tuesday described the presumptive Democrat nominee as a self-absorbed and devious sailor during the Vietnam War who was there merely to advance a future political career.


"He arrived in country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future," Hoffmann said. "He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard to specific tactical assignments. He was a loose cannon.


http://www.cnsnews.com/specialreports.asp


I am so sick of these disgusting, revolting and ignorant people I could scream.

[Sheila Samples]

31. To Catt03

"He arrived in country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future," Hoffmann said. "He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard to specific tactical assignments. He was a loose cannon."

Have to remember that Hoffmann did not arrive in-country until AFTER Kerry left. This is a pure RNC talking point which -- as usual -- is not questioned nor challenged...

Ish

[Blue_Roses]

33. Link?

Have to remember that Hoffmann did not arrive in-country until AFTER Kerry left. This is a pure RNC talking point which -- as usual -- is not questioned nor challenged...

I want this on my favorite list!

[Snellius]

40. Mattgunn blows these bs bozos out of the water:

Roy Hoffman

Rear Admiral Hoffman (ret.) was a Captain who headed up a Coastal Surveillance Force unit under which Kerry served. Douglas Brinkley writes about him on pages 177 and 178 in Tour of Duty:

...The new commander, hawkish Captain Roy Hoffman was ecstatic about Sealords. He knew that military reputations were made in wartime, and he was determined to make his in Vietnam. What's more, he had a genuine taste for the more unsavory aspects of warfare, and truly wanted to smoke the Viet Cong out of their tunnels, burn their jungle outposts, and annihilate them once and for all. Decades later, many Swift boat veterans under Hoffman's command would compare him with the rough-hewn colonel in the movie Apocalypse Now who boasted that he "loved the smell of napalm in the morning." In short, Captain Hoffman sought to convince his Swift boat skippers to do whatever it took to notch splashy victories in the Mekong Delta and thereby get him promoted.

Kerry would never forget how ardently Captain Hoffman lauded the exploits of one "enterprising officer" from the Danang Swift division. The officer had surprised some thirty Vietnamese who were fishing in round, floating baskets just off the shore of a peninsula in an area that was, unfortunately for them, a free fire zone. Hoffman considered it ideal military thinking that the Swift skipper had shown the presence of mind to sneak his boat in between the baskets and the shore, cutting the fisherman off from escape and then opening fire on them. All the baskets were sunk, and so were the fishermen. "Fantastic," Hoffman reportedly proclaimed upon hearing the news. Kerry himself would later hear Hoffman praise such "industriousness" at a remarkable meeting in Saigon. Clearly, the Navy had undergone a sea change. Not only were cowboy antics on the rivers of Vietnam no longer frowned upon, they were rewarded with medals.

http://www.mattgunn.com/#swiftboat50504