Excerpts of US military report on Iraq jail abuse (Female detainees too)

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04517066.htm

<snip>Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick. snip

Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees; snip

A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee; snip

Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

more

[DemMother]

1. I know you're quoting...

but shouldn't the military report rephrase that to "a male guard raping a female detainee..."

[NNN0LHI]

2. If I were writing it that is the way I would have written it. Yep n/t

[David__77]

3. Oh, I'm just sure that was consensual!

"Having sex with?" Please. By definition, that must be rape. There cannot be consensuality in such a scenario. So now Iraqi women are being raped as well?

[NNN0LHI]

4. It appears that way

Looks like we are reading the same PG-13 version that was sent to Rummy as not to offend his beautiful mind.

Don

[SquireJons]

7. "No more rape rooms"

Yeah, we got rid of the rooms, but not the rape. How will we ever be able to face the world again unless we put these creeps (our chicken-hawk "leaders") on trial and in jail? It gets more embarrassing every day to be an American.

[riverwalker]

5. heres Rummy at Abu Ghraib

in September. What was he doing there with Karpinski? Discussing torture techniques?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040504/481/ny12105041625

[daleo]

6. This must be the photo that has been reproduced in news reports

"* Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE (meals ready to eat) Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;"

How do we know this was only simulated. Once prisoners understood this was only a ruse, it would no longer be that frightening (and I think word would get around in a prison population). Common sense tells you that they probably used live current at least often enough to make the threat plausible.

This is pure speculation on my part, but why should we believe the army's own report, which is probably sanitized, bad as it is.

[icymist]

8. To use the word 'simulated' is to try and reinforce the argument..

that all these photo's were staged and not real. This has got to be the fourth time I've heard this spin on those photos. They're trying to say that these photos were staged so that new detainees could be showed the pictures, threatening that "this will happen to you" if they don't cooperate.

They dug this hole and now they're trying to squirm out of it.

[drfemoe]

16. You know ..

if they really wanted to give the prisoners a reason to *confess*, call me Dr. Phil .. but how about photos of what a Democracy is supposed to look like? How about photos of What Can Be in a Free Ira*? RWers are so debased, they think the only motivation can come from fear and torture. Give people something positive to work for, and they will COOPERATE. These people wanted to be rid of Saddam. They want a chance to govern. WHY oh WHY isn't that enough motivation to persuade cooperation? Because the heil reich knows NOTHING of *human* nature. They are the animals. Someone tame them before they destroy the entire human race.

[lostnfound]

18. Some electrical torture was NOT simulated -- story of 1 man in coma

though not necessarily at Abu Ghraib. Heard on Flashpoints on Monday or Tuesday a report of one man in US custody with electrical burns on feet and penis, head injuries, in a coma.
"Dahr documents the details of a 57 year old healthy man beaten, electrocuted, whipped and tortured who slipped into a coma from the abuse. Under the custody of military doctor Michael C. Hodges the Iraqi man was dispatched as a 'heart attack/heat stroke' victim."

I found details on this story at http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=275

[cambie]

9. Those easy photos

on 60 min were released in hopes of putting the blame on a small number of reserves. Also, we won’t see the rest on TV and will not understand why the rest of the world is a bit upset. The front page of this link will give some idea.

"Either the male relatives cooperated with interrogators they were threatened with their female family members ending up on porn sites. If the detainee was not forthcoming, this is what occurred and the photographs were presented to him."

http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=2926&list=/home.php&

[icymist]

11. THOSE PHOTOS ARE FROM A PRONO SITE.

Some freepers are trying to mix prono with legitment torture pictures.

[icymist]

12. We have to be very careful with those who would discredit

the real torture photos with porno photos. Just look at the uniforms these 'soldiers' are wearing. Not desert uniforms. Also, These very same photos were tried to pervert legitimate torture pictures in the General Discussion yesterday. We cannot allow porno to get mixed up with this.

[cambie]

15. The author

of that article does say that they are not verified, but such photos are getting into the papers. What should they believe now? Certainly the threat would be effective in interrogation. Those six hundred women and juveniles were there for a reason.

[drfemoe]

17. I'll stick with this opinion >>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1517119#1517666

Tinoire (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #17

23. It's too late for the widespread disbelief

The burden of proof is on the US government now.

I agree that there are some fake, porn-industry staged photos floating around but let that be the government's problem.

and #49 same thread:
<snip>
And for those who say that these look like porno stills- well, congratulations. That's the level to which we've descended. The burden of proof is on the government to prove these are fakes.

I am so EFFING tired of a bunch of men coming and saying that "they look photo-shopped", "look fake". Maybe next time we can get Spielberg on the scene to help these guys make it look as rosy as rape looks on TV.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE GOVERNMENT
<end snip>

The government should have STOPPED the abuses. Since they chose to be irresponsible and criminal accomplices (at the very least), let THEM debunk the photos. I will not do it for them.

We cannot allow porno to get mixed up with this.

Why not? If they are fake, let the criminals prove it.

[Just Me]

10. WHO STARTED THIS? The f-upped "commander-in-chief"!!!

He is responsible.

His whole being in office is responsible.

When POWER takes precedence over people,...you deserve to be spit and shit upon.

Georgie,...I will live to watch you and your regime die,...and I will spit on your graves.

[AbbeyRoad]

13. Rumsfeld wouldn't call it "torture"

As far as I'm concerned, rape is definitely a form of torture.

Rumsfeld is a piece of work. :mad:

[progressivebydesign]

14. This could be the thing... the thing that topples Bush ultimately.

For how many years have we pontificated here about what would bring Bush & Co. down. There certainly have been a richness of scandals what would have sunk any president, if he had not been in control of all levels of government, as Bush is... HOWEVER, this.. these reports of torture, the photos, etc., will bring Bush down. Not because anyone can tie him directly to the orders that created this nightmare, but because it adds to a general public queasiness about this war, the casualites, and the reason we got there. As Comander in Chief, the buck should stop with him.. yet, he is trying to wash his hands of everything, the troop deaths, the lies getting us there, and now this hienous torture and even murder of prisoners. Bush is linked psychologically to these events for most Americans, it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.. and will turn off all but the most frothing conservatives... Watch Bush's numbers sliding... No president can recover from things like this under his watch, in a war that is increasingly viewed as unjust and failing. Though the increase in troop deaths make many more Americans uncomfortable, the idea that we are no less brutal than the dictator we freed these people from, will be what finally sways voters away from Bush. He is a miserable failure. He has damaged the country and the world in his 3 years in the White House. The torture revelations are so brutal and shocking, that even the GOP is forced to dennounce it, and there is, no doubt, extremely tumultous times behind closed doors in the Bush camp, and in the Beltway.

[Moderator]

19. duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=529020&mesg_id=529020