Selective Service eyes women's draft (Seattle P-I)

[Newsjock]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/171522_draft01.html

Selective Service eyes women's draft
The proposal would also require registration of critical skills

By ERIC ROSENBERG
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON -- The chief of the Selective Service System has proposed registering women for the military draft and requiring that young Americans regularly inform the government about whether they have training in niche specialties needed in the armed services.

The proposal, which the agency's acting Director Lewis Brodsky presented to senior Pentagon officials just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, also seeks to extend the age of draft registration to 34 years old, up from 25.

The Selective Service System plan, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, highlights the extent to which agency officials have planned for an expanded military draft in case the administration and Congress would authorize one in the future.

... Some of the skill areas where the armed forces are facing "critical shortages" include linguists and computer specialists, the agency said. Americans would then be required to regularly update the agency on their skills until they reach age 35.

more

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Well, whaddaya know!

A Draft! Just like in the 60s! I guess Bush is going to make LSD legal and urge everyone to have lots of sex, too.

I'm 46, and I have both computer and linguistics skills.

But stop at 35? I heard talk that they wanted a special draft all the way up to the age of retirement, like 65 or 67.

I'd be happy to do my part if my country needed me, but I wouldn't be happy to be conscripted. Station me near my home, teach me Arabic or Pashto, and make sure my paychecks don't bounce, but don't dragoon me. I'm an American, ferchrissakes!

These days, though, I wouldn't need the LSD. Just reading the morning paper is psychotomimetic enough!

--bkl

[Scooter24]

2. HAHA...

34?!?!

The law already gives the president the power to extend the age limits in EXTREME national emergent cases.

This is awful news because I hold 3 of the "special skills" that the military could use. I speak semi-fluent Arabic and Korean, and also have an AAS in IT. I'm 24, and I don't want to get out of law school to find myself doomed to go to Iraq. Plus, as a gay man, and after they recently fired 20 linguists because they were gay, I'm having a hard time rationalizing why they would force me to serve in the military after they make it quite clear they don't want me there and that my services aren't needed because of my sexual orientation.

It's too early, I need my danish before I can debate this...lol

[ldf]

16. power to extend the age limits in EXTREME national emergencycases.

???

yeah, but my definition may be different. to wage *'s war for oil, middle eastern dominance, and to bring on the rapture?

don't think so. he can put my almost senior citizen ass in jail.

that'll look really good as legacy in the history books.

[Scooter24]

18. I'd probably..

...join you in being disobedient, but I was refering to the context of the law as it is written.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. I'm surprised more people haven't read this...especially DUers under 35...

...and women.

Scary stuff, folks. Remember, the legislation in Congressional committee in both houses of Congress cals for the draft of men and women.

[dawn]

36. It's very scary.

I'd never go.

[T Bone]

53. Follow link to the article and email it to every college student you know

That's what I did. I told them to forward it to every college student they have an email address for in these 'specialties'. I think they will be going for doctors and nurses too, myself.

Bush-Cheney 04
Draft Yo' Ass! 05

We are all wearing the Blue War Dress now.

[brokensymmetry]

4. An odd thing...

I keep seeing more and more about a draft. Everyone claims it's just talk, and swears it isn't going to happen...but the chatter increases as the months go by.

And then this from the article: "About 13.5 million men, ages 18 to 25, currently are registered with the Selective Service."

I wonder - what are they planning for? Why do we need MORE than 13.5 million potential draftees?

[crispuss]

5. They get the same benefits of freedom, they should be drafted.

[Scooter24]

7. abolish age limit

Why have an age limit at all?

It doesn't make sense that they would want to segregate the country by age. Keeping it at 25 at least had that 'youthful' message to the law, now it will expand into mainstream America.

Those civilians over 35 owe just as much to this country as anyone, if not more.

[Ilsa]

17. I'd be a great warrior during my hot flashes. n/t

[truth2power]

45. Funniest thing I've heard all day! LOL! n/t

[shanti]

52. my grandfather went to the pacific theatre

in ww2 and he was 45 years old (and a marine!) if enough people want to do this, they will let it happen.

[Piperay]

79. Yeah, except that many of us

who are over 35 are falling apart...UGH. x(

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Especially the kids of the rich and powerful

If they are going to have a draft, there should be no exemptions so that rich kids can get out of going. Only exemption should be medical. If there is a draft, the Bush twins should be in the ranks. Maybe if the rich folks realize it is their fight, policies will change.

[Warpy]

13. You start getting pregnant, sonny

...and we can start getting drafted.

Sucking women into the military during prime childbearing years is stupid for the women, for the military, for the country, and for the human race.

This "special skills" crap is really troubling. What a great added disincentive to discourage women from entering critical professions like nursing, which is already at crisis levels of low supply. If they offered a 6 year program of nursing school followed by a couple of years of active duty, that might work. This won't.

This bunch of lunatics and thieves can't do anything right.

[Lavalamp]

22. Yes

"during prime childbearing years"

I mean look at the human population count. We are near extinction. We MUST reproduce more!

[alittlelark]

24. Some posting here CERTAINLY should not be allowed to reproduce

:evilgrin:

[alittlelark]

23. Sending females into DU contaminated areas during their childbearing

years is nuts. Sending men into DU contaminated areas is also nuts. Fighting wars for the rich is nuts. Bush* is realllly nuts.

I am too old (40) for any draft, but I'd damn sure take up arms if someone invaded my country.

[arikara]

76. Are you saying that you wouldn't welcome the invaders with flowers?

Even if you were liberated from the evil pnacers???

;-)

[TankLV]

27. So you're not for equality, then?

Guess you want to "remain on a pedestal" like the wacko fundies and repukes want?

It's either complete, full and unrestricted equality, or you're just blowing not air and wasting our time.

[Lavalamp]

31. Yup

Sounds like one of the people who wants equal rights so long as they don't have to take equal responsibility, at which point she whips out the right wing "child bearing" excuse on a planet with several billion humans.

I'm sure if someone were to say female people should stay home their entire lives to maximize "child bearing" it wouldn't be oh so important anymore.

[lostnfound]

37. Is that like "you're with us or your against us"?

The world is not so black and white.

[TahitiNut]

39. Sounds more like NIMBY, to me.

:shrug:

[Mushroom]

83. explain further

why you believe drafting women will gain them equality and from who. Any specifics? Any links to articles? Thanks

[TankLV]

26. Damn straight!

If women are truely for equality, they should demand to be treated equally in all respects - the COSTS of equality as well as the benefits.

Or are some women just talking about it when it comes to the benefits!

We'll see who the truely honest are if some women DON'T support treating women equally with men in this regard.

[neverborn]

51. Well then..

Women should be sent into DU areas during childbearing years, because both women and men can bear children.

Wait, no, you're wrong. Can the sexist tripe, thanks.

[MI Cherie]

56. Thank you ...

... for saying what needed to be said.

[RapidCreek]

59. What the hell

does bearing children have to do with anything? I don't give a shit if you are in your child bearing years any more than I do about a guy being in his sperm producing years. What a load of idiocy.

RC

[neverborn]

62. Me? I'm a guy.

Go do your fucking homework about DU poisoning.

[RapidCreek]

63. I'm well aware of what DU poisoning is purported to be

Like I said...who the hell cares. If my son has to go get his balls lit up in Iraq...so can someone elses daughter. If women want equal rights then they should have them, right along with the responsibilities the insurance of those rights require.

I don't care whether you are a man or a woman....I don't care if you can bare children or not. What the hell has that got to do with anything.

If the daughters of our flag waving war mongering population stood the likelyhood of visiting that sunny fun factory Iraq....I'd hazard to guess they'd be a whole lot less war mongering.

RC

[neverborn]

66. You think that...

drafting FReeper's daughters would make them relent, but not drafting their sons?

[RapidCreek]

80. Who said anything about not drafting their sons?

Draft em both.....and don't stop at freepers...draft everyones kids...draft the parents too if they can still carry a gun or catch a bullet.

We want to have wars and talk about making sacrifices? I'm all for it...let's all sacrifice.....let's all feel it, on a personal level.

RC

[TankLV]

70. Sounds like you're spewing the sexist tripe.

You are not for equality then - or equality only when it's "convenient".

Can the sexist tripe.

If I'm gonna be forced to die in some insane war, then I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure you're there right beside me.

Sexist trip indeed - can you spell "hypocrite"?

[neverborn]

72. Do your homework. I'm a guy.

[TankLV]

74. I don't care what you are - my description fits you to a tee.

It is gender neutral.

It's still tripe.

But I guess we can all have a little equality - like being a little pregnant.

Sigh.

[neverborn]

77. Your description..

"If I'm gonna be forced to die in some insane war, then I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure you're there right beside me."

That sounds like you were talking directly to me -- as if I was female.

Also -- while I 100% stand by my declaration of no female draftees... I also stand by a declaration of no draftees AT ALL.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. How the FUCK can you use the words "freedom" and "draft"...

in the same bloody sentence?

[thinkingwoman]

60. ROFL...I'd like to see them try to draft women

Billy Bob will not stand for his little princess being drafted.

That's the emotional barrier.

Women are not registered.

That's the practical barrier.

The draft is likely to happen. Drafting women is not.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

81. Women are fighting and dying in combat even as we speak...

...what "barrier" do you think really exists when this has become the norm?

[thinkingwoman]

82. perhaps you misread my post

perhaps I was unclear.

I am well aware that women serve now.

The barrier I was posting about was the fact that in order to draft women, we must first register all eligible ones...it's a process that takes time.

Drafting men or women doesn't happen overnight...hence all the preparations going on behind the scenes now to reinstate the draft for men.

The fact that women serve willingly does NOT mean that middle American Daddies will stand for them being DRAFTED.

That is what I was saying with my post.

[Crowdance]

65. Right, start the fight for women's equality with the draft

NOT resolving pay disparity, NOT resolving the issue of women's reproductive rights, NOT equal pay for work of comparable value, NOT equalizing women's participation is sports, NOT working for universal child care, etc., etc.....

Yeah, if women want rights, let them be led to the slaughter first! Good thinking.

[are_we_united_yet]

67. I do not want women drafted!

Period! And I'm not female! If they want to volunteer, that is up to them.

[leftchick]

6. DemsWillWin has been posting about this for months!

It is about time a mainstream newspaper printed it. This is it folks! bush*2004 = DRAFT 2005.... the new SSS rules would start the draft in March 2005!!! :scared:

[SheilaT]

8. Toward the end of WWI

they were getting ready to induct ALL men between the ages of (I think) 21 and 45, or maybe 18 and 45 who did not hold a job vital to the war effort. Every single one of them. Woodrow Wilson looked upon the war as a means for him to run the country the way he wanted to. We can only hope that no one in the Bush administration knows enough history to decide this is good to emulate.

My source for this information is the John Barry book about the Spanish influenza epidemic entitled The Great Influenza which is just out and only available in hardcover. It's an amazing book. I recommend it to anyone with even a peripheral interest in WWI, epidemiology, the history of medicine, or that particular epidemic.

[Warpy]

14. Ha! They drafted men who DID hold one of those vital jobs.

My father was a civilian engineer who got his draft notice during an air raid in Italy. He was not pleased with the military at that point.

[boobooday]

10. I hate to say this

Because I have both a son AND a daughter of draft age, but it doesn't seem fair to only draft one gender. And I say that as a woman. That always bothered me about the draft.

The Bush twins should definitely go first.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[Scooter24]

11. I would love to see the Bush girls go

But Secret Service protocol will prevent Bush's daughters from fighting. Just as it would Chelsea Clinton and Cheney's daughter.

They are deemed valuable assets that should not be put in harms way.

[despairing optimist]

49. Valuable assets to whom? Johnnie Walker? Jack Daniels?

[T Bone]

54. Roosevelt kids served in WWI and WWII

Teddy's GOP kids served in WWI and FDR's kids served in WWII. So where do Jenna and Babs sign up ?

One of Teddy's kids actually died in aerial combat in WWI.
The Bush Family is oh so Christian, they will understand true sacrifice.

[Spider Jerusalem]

58. Yeah, and General Theodore Roosevelt Jr...

won the Medal of Honour for his actions on D-Day...landed on the beach with the first wave and led the assault from the front, despite having a bad leg and needing a cane to walk...

[RamboLiberal]

68. FDR's son Elliot was flying a Mosquito on mission

where young Joe Kennedy died.

Joe Kennedy saw his chance to become a hero. He was eager to go, and was a very experienced pilot. The system to be used was to load a B-24 with explosives, using two pilots, and the installation of an arming pin to prevent accidental ignition of the explosives. The target was Mimoyecques, France. A P-38 weather plane reported acceptable conditions, it was a go. Kennedy and his co-pilot Bud Willy took off at 5:55PM. The safety pin had been properly installed in the arming unit. Fourteen other aircraft gathered in formation with the "flying bomb". The lead plane was a B-17. There were two P-38s to accomplish aerial photography over the target. Also included were two Mosquito bombers, one to monitor weather, the other flown by Elliot Roosevelt, the son of the President of the United States.

http://www.b-29s-over-korea.com/kennedy_story/kennedy_story02.html

[Warpy]

15. Consider that the biggest danger female soldiers face

..is rape by their fellow soldiers. Is this what you want for your daughter? For all daughters?

Forget it.

[ButterflyBlood]

28. and it's fair to force males to risk their lives?

the draft is totally unjust and I oppose in all cases, but if so it should be equal. Believe me, if I could trade male advantages for being ineligible for the draft, I would.

[TankLV]

29. So you're not for equality then?

Can't have it both ways.

Either you're for equality or not.

[are_we_united_yet]

75. Equality?

WTFAYTA?

[TahitiNut]

35. Males are raped, too.

Is that what you want for your son? For all sons? :eyes:

[teryang]

12. I'm totally opposed to a draft

The rich won't even pay taxes and I'm supposed to be for a corvee on my children?

It's involuntary servitude. If you can't get citizens to volunteer to fight, maybe it isn't a justified case of self defense.

The colonial mission of civilizing the barbarians obviously doesn't cut it politically.

Without a draft this effort in Iraq will be short lived. How many Americans are going to volunteer to fight other mideast countries after this display of political and military corruption?

[cally]

19. Pass the ERA then

Oh, we couldn't have the ERA because women might be drafted. So now we get the draft and not equal rights. Typical repub reasoning.

I think we all knew that women would be drafted this time around.

Bring up the draft to 17 year olds and college students and they will register and vote. We're using this issue to get Dem voters. Go to work Dems. We can stop this.

[bleedingheart]

84. Yep...I want ERA passed first then they can have the draft

of women.

[Thor_MN]

20. Is this what they mean by retraining?

When they say that the people displaced by outsourcing need to retrain for some job that will be in demand??? Funny how they never mention what you should retrain FOR.

[tlcandie]

21. Wow.. so all that computer tech outsourcing will end up being

GREAT news for everyone! This admin will get their cannon fodder and those w/o jobs in the USA will now get paid!!!

/sarcasm off

[Johnny Arson]

25. I don't know how I feel about women being drafted.

On one hand equal rights = equal responsibilities. I believe women can do anything men can, and I'd hate for them to prove me wrong.

On the other hand, if there is a draft, I would want to limit the suffering as much as possible. Since we're talking about people's lives here, I wouldn't particularly mind using arguments I don't actually agree with.

[reprobate]

30. The draft should pass. Lower age limit should be fifty.

Wars are always started by the old men, and faught by the young men. See, that's the problem.

If wars were fought by the same old men that started them, I guarantee that there would be no more war.

What would happen if they gave a war but nobody came?

Well, I guess they'd just have to settle it with a game of cards.

[Lavalamp]

32. If you ask me

when a president commits troops to a war it should be law that he/she immediatly afterwards steps down, is inducted in to the military as an officer in or near a combat zone, and the vice president takes office.

Bet your ass we won't have anymore Vietnams or Iraqs, and if a president isn't willing to serve in a legit war such as WW2 they have no place being in the White House to begin with.

[glitch]

33. Excellent - and it would shut the armchair warriors up forever. nt

[TahitiNut]

34. Universal National Service

Everyone (male, female, gay, straight, tall, short, abled, challenged) should be required to "invest" 18-48 months in some form of national service prior to the age of 32. National Park Service, Public Health Service, Peace Corps, VISTA, Army, Navy, whatever.

The coercion and killing of a few for the benefit of the privileged and profit of the wealthy must stop if we are to call ourselves a democratic nation.

Abu Ghraib is what a "professional" military does.

[Classic_Liberal712]

38. Whenever I feel

a draft coming on, I just shut the window. I find it hard to believe that we are really stretched so thin as to necessitate a draft. What about all of our soldiers stationed overseas? This draft is political nonsense... but the Dems are pressing it, I hope it's not because they don't have any real issues to campaign on, we've lost the economy, national security.... what else. I hope my message isn't deleted by moderators but Bush has Kerry trumped on national security, Kerry needs to focus on domestic issues where Bush has failed (the draft issue) yet this election seems to be dependent upon natl sec and the WoT


:shrug:

[reprobate]

47. Yeah, things are all going against the dems, right?

Guess we all should just roll over and bow to the emperor, right?

Are you aware that we have over 600 bases throughout the world? Are you aware that if we pulled these troops out to send them to iraq, there is a better than even chance that they wouldn't be allowed back?

In that event the hegemony that the US now has will dwindle and we will no longer be the worlds bully. The junta can't let that happen because they would lose whatever confidence the people have left in them. After all, americans love a success and hate a failure. That, by the way is why america never was told about *'s past. The man has never been involved in a successful venture. Even his graduation with an MBA would not have happened were it not for his daddy's legacy at the same school. A C average is not usually acceptable in grad school.

Why would you think your message would be deleted? Tho it does sound like you are trying to convince us that we have no chance in november. If this isn't true then I apologize. If it is true, your in the wrong place.

[Classic_Liberal712]

48. im i middle of the roader and supported edwards

i don't know how things will fare out, i hope the will for the best.

[jdj]

69. Brilliant.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I think when women get equal representation in gov't. perhaps then women should be drafted. And likewise, young men probably have about the same representation in gov't as women do, if not less.

I don't know how I feel about having women drafted who have children under the age of 18. Although there are many reserve and guard members who left children, Shoshanna Johnson being one of them.

It's a pretty well known fact that a small percentage of women get pregnant to get out of certain assignments, especially in the Navy (I personally know a woman who has done this twice) so expect a baby boom if this goes through. And there WILL be restrictions on drafting women with children, because the fundies won't have it other wise. I think only one parent in a couple should be drafted, kids shouldn't be left parentless.

And I didn't know that men raping other men in the U.S. military was so prevalent. If it is then why aren't men doing Oprah and Dr. Phil. I think it's because confession may doom men in a way that it doesn't women, they're somehow less of a man. But men need to fess up to the reality of male on male sexual violation and do something about it, instead of pulling out this old saw only when convenient.

On to watch Alias. Good night all.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Don't forget to tell them you are gay!

I will even write a letter to your draft board vouching for your "GLBT" sexual orientation.

The military is so homophobic that they won't even question your claim.

Let the fundie children be the ones that go to war!

I will do anything to keep any young man or woman from becoming canon fodder for American imperialism.

[PaDUer]

41. Has anyone here gotten on

their local draft board? What's the pros and cons of this?

[Scooter24]

42. If...

If me or my boyfriend got called...we will appeal.

Wait until you see the visual aids we will provide the draft board. There won't be a doubt left in their mind after my 10 minute presentation...lol

I hope they don't have to keep my video though..that could be traumatic :D

[PaDUer]

43. KICK n/t

[w4rma]

44. Looks like they're looking at coming after folks like me.

I fit this description, exactly, except that I'm male.

[richabk]

46. Eddie Izzard's military brigade

With all the talk of the draft, I had a few questions:

1. If gays aren't allowed in the military, will they be exempt from being drafted?

2. If yes, then will we have a spike in the number of gay people in the US. And will they make you prove it? If so, how?

3. If no, then will the gays be segregated? If so, would they put them on the front lines to get rid of us? Or...like Eddie Izzard has said...the element of surprise is extremely important in battle, and what would be more surprising than the "1st Battalion Transvestite Brigade" to the enemy? A bunch of us queens going in and telling our surperiors, I want a bigger gun!

[Tinoire]

55. Being gay is not a problem in war time

They don't care about fat or gay.

Same thing when there's a Stop Loss in effect.

Fat and gay are peace time luxuries for when they have too many soldiers.

[AbbeyRoad]

50. Yay! Under that proposal, I could be drafted.

I'm a female under 34. I guess I could keep my brother company. :scared:

[rocktivity]

61. I run this banner on my web site

which you're free to borrow. I link it to Bushdraft.com.

:headbang:
rocknation

[goobergunch]

64. Hmmm

Maybe it's not good that as soon as I started to read this story, I opened up another tab and determined that the SSS has the IP range 199.248.197.* ....

[bloom]

71. There is always conscientious objecting

for either sex.


That's what I would advocate.

[neverborn]

73. And then you're what? A field medic?

[DaveSZ]

78. Thank you Bush

Prick.

[narcjen]

85. Going after women and dramatically raising draft age

What do they need so many conscripts for? To start World War 3?

[roguevalley]

86. Well, my babies are nurses and computer workers. We're going to get

screwed in this family. HOWEVER! I do have relatives in
Canada.

OOOOoooOOOOOo CAAAAAAANNNNNNNUUUUUUHHHHHH-DUUUUUUUUHHHHH!

Expect some of us. 'K?