State, local voting officials confident of machine security

[Rose Siding]

Georgia and Athens-Clarke voting officials have rejected the conclusions of computer science researchers who say Georgia's new electronic voting system is subject to fraud.

Researchers from Johns Hopkins and Rice universities last week released a study concluding Georgia's $54 million system could be manipulated by unscrupulous, computer-savvy poll workers or voters.

But the Johns Hopkins-Rice study failed to take into account a series of checks and balances mandated by Georgia law, that minimize the chances for voting fraud, said Athens-Clarke County Elections Supervisor Gail Schrader.

''I'm really not worried,'' said Schrader, calling the study ''flawed.'

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/080503/new_20030805024.shtml

Meanwhile in Utah:

Electronic voting may pose risks

Forget hanging, dimpled and pregnant chads, the new voting threats could be hacking, crashing and rigging.
Punch-card voting machines may be problem-prone, but new electronic ballot devices -- which some Utahns might start using next year -- could be cataclysmic. That's the assessment of some experts who fear touch-screen voting will invite risky computer problems.
Computer voting terminals are being assailed by professors and technology mavens as vulnerable because votes are not being saved on paper but as bits and bytes on memory cards.

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08052003/utah/81360.asp

[rock]

1. State, local voting officials

Yep, those are the ones that need to feel confidenct that our votes will be counted accurately. (Yeah, sarcasm)

[salin]

2. Defensive answers

like this drive me crazy. As if admitting that the issue needs more consideration, or that the state is going to call upon the company to correct any potential problems, is admitting fault or fraud.

The wise office holder - would take the study under advisement - and suggest some kind of action in the future to prevent any of the potential problems from coming to bear (not withstanding that things COULD have happened in the last election... but I am talking about how they would - if they were serious, and concerned about election integrity - handle it in terms of from this moment forward).

Total dismissal of the issues raised leaves the impression of arrogance, or intentional "ignorance". It is that last possibility that is troubling. However by being confronted with this information - they now lose "deniability" in the future. The problem is that folks would have to figure out how to check for fraud, definitively. Seems like some versions of these machines (the ones which are auditless) make it exceptionally hard to do just that.

[alaine]

3. Secretaries of State discussed the Avi Rubin study

at their summer meeting and will discuss it again in February, by which time there will be alot more info out there about this stuff.

They can press-release all they want but they better have their asses covered come '04, because the cat is out of the bag.

[SharonAnn]

4. I just love this quote from Georgia:

I just love this quote from Georgia:

"The risk of fraud with the new system is no different than with old systems, said Patty Curtis, chairwoman of the Clarke County Board of Elections.
''Fraud can be done with any type of system if you have corrupt people running it,'' she said."

The whole point is that you have very stringent auditing requirements, like banks do, to minimize the opportunity for fraud. Banks don't just say "Fraud can be done with any type of system". They take very specific and thorough steps to prevent it. Why aren't our elections officials taking steps to prevent fraud on our voting machines?

[alaine]

5. regarding the "risk of fraud" comment

there used to be a whole bunch of inferior methods of birth control, and because of advances, now people tend to try to go with the one that has the least margin for error, regardless of the fact that the old ways failed sometimes too.

[demdave]

7. And yet fraud still occurs at banks from time to time.

I don't see the problem with the chairwomen's statement. Nowhere does she state that they fail to take specific and thorough steps to prevent fraud. As a matter of fact it is stated in the article that they do not operate on blind faith of the machine.


I have worked the polls for over 15 years, on several types of machines. ''Fraud can be done with any type of system if you have corrupt people running it,'' is true. Some methods are more subtle than others but it doesn't take a mastermind to pull off some sort of fraud on at least a small scale.

[retread]

10. There's a story about a late Senator from the great state of Georgia, who

used to hire relatives to boss crews that entered graveyards to copy names from tombstones to be used as voters. Seems it was getting toward dark one evening and a few of the locals were nervous about being in a graveyard after dark. The relative indignantly replied, "Them whats in the back row got just as much right to vote for the Senator as them in the front."
So yeah, "The risk of fraud ... is no different than with old systems."

[Rose Siding]

12. But the stakes of US elections are higher

As corporations get more power with pols, the outcome of elections involves profit and loss of unprecedented magnitude.

With only about 6% of the world pop, the US president is the most powerful man on earth. Just over 15% of Americans voted for Bush. When you consider the relatively small amount of manipulation that would have to occur to affect all the power and money on earth, it seems far more sinister than vote fraud in our past.

[larryepke]

13. I first heard that...

as a Lyndon Johnson joke! :)

[sam sarrha]

6. same area where 22,000 machines in last election that received last minute

software "patches", that were uncertified, put in by uncertified personnel, and when asked for a copy of the patch... they didn't have a copy left.. but it was just a fine tuning, so it was OK ..:freak: :spank:

[ixion]

8. Funny, the company that makes the software (Diebold) disagrees

Diebold just came out and admitted that the software used in the election was indeed the flawed software with security holes. I guess this is just another shining example of a politician lying their a** off. :grr:

[hunter]

9. There is a panic brewing...

Folks who run the elections (even the honest ones, :) ) are beginning to worry that this electronic voting machine controversy will add to the mess of upcoming elections, especially the October Davis recall election in California.

Just this morning, in an Associated Press news article on the front page of our local paper, opponents of the recall were talking about how we will be forced to use "outdated punch card machines" if the Davis recall election goes through in October.

Basically, various groups concerned with the election process are now very busy covering their asses because they sold imperfect electronic voting machines to the public. The last thing they want is to have these imperfect machines contributing to the fiasco of the Davis recall election.

[Junkdrawer]

11. Judging from the change of stance of our resident trolls...

I'd say that we're going to get our voter-verified audit trail BUT we won't get our spot checks.

This is a turn of events I have worried about for quite a while now: The audit trail was mentioned in HAVA (but was slated for 2006???), and was always seen as a potential requirement of machine purchases. Spot checks, however, could and will be painted as requiring a change in state election laws. My guess is that if the Rush Holt bill ever makes it out of committee, this will be the chief argument used against it.

Wild Card: A scandal that shows one election or more was actually rigged by machines at some level. If that were to happen, the hue and cry for reform could get us our spot checks.

[Epoch]

14. Here we go again!

Alright everyone. So you want to stop this mess? I sure do. It takes one, but dozens definitly help. Go to the activism section of DU. Find my post with my two paragraph letter to my MD representatives. Change it to fit your state. Copy, paste on Microsoft Word, PRint. Create a template for a petition sheet, hit print. Go to your neighbors, work, anywhere anf get signatures. I have about 200 for my MD reps and I am going to 3 outdoor carnivals this weekend to get more.

Call your local reps. I have called half, and send e-mails to all. their aides have told me that the reps are bringing in articles on their own and that they are concerned. Keep up the pressure. I have a meeting with one state sen. this week. Imagine the Dean grassroots campaign on an issue like this. DU can do it. It takes one, but let's all get going on this issue. You all in Georgia. Get your congressmen to sponser Rush Holt's bill and get your local delegates to take action on this. this applies for every state! This isn't some issue where one person is powerless.

It has taken me a little over one hour on my day off of work at the St. Mary's College library to do all of this..to contact every state sen. in Maryland (46 at my last count).

I want to hear some responces. E-mail if you are going to take action on this.

Epoch

I see my light come shining
From the west unto the east.
Any day now, any day now,
I shall be released.

[gristy]

16. I've got MN pretty much covered

Though I haven't called all of the state's representatives and senators like you did (good idea!). Might not have to. Kiffmeyer has stated her commitment to optical scan. And I think she MIGHT oppose DRE systems for the blind.

[treepig]

20. you want to stop this mess??

it would seem to me the best way to get things fixed would be to start spreading internet rumors that unemployed and disgruntled IT workers were planning to hack into the machines next time around and fix the elections for the democrats, or worse yet, for the greens.

somehow, if the republicans thought they would be the victim, changes would be enacted pronto.

[catzies]

21. That WOULD work, wouldn't it. <sarcasm>

The difference between a "problem" and "no big deal:"

Stealing a Democrat's vote: no big deal.

Stealing a Republican's vote: a problem.

:eyes:

[gristy]

15. I knew you were talking about Georgia

All I needed to see was your thread headline. Georgia's head appears to be permanently stuck where the sun don't shine.

[ibegurpard]

17. Who gives a shit if THEY'RE confident?

I'm not.

[samsingh]

18. are they repugs?

any dems okaying the machines.

[SoCalDem]

19. Did you guys see this???? We need to copy and send to everyone

along with the pertinent reading material, of course..:):)