Experts say new Iraqi flag lacks symmetry, symbolism

[ConcernedCanuk]

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POSTED AT 5:41 AM EDT
By DOUG SAUNDERS
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

The world of vexillology is often filled with heated debate, but yesterday these opinionated folks reached a nearly universal consensus on one issue: Things are looking pretty ugly in Iraq.

/snip/


"My feeling is that a lot of people in Iraq will feel that they're turning their back on the traditions of the country," Mr. Martucci said, "and that does not bode well for the future."

Iraq's flags, like the flags of almost every other Arab-dominated nation, have always featured variations on green, gold, black and red. Saddam Hussein's Baathist regime placed three gold stars in the centre, representing a hoped-for union with Syria and Egypt. During the 1991 Persian Gulf war, Mr. Hussein added an Arabic inscription in his own hand, reading "God is great," apparently to de-secularize his country and win support from other Islamic nations.

/snip/

"It flies in the face of the traditions of that country; these are not small things. There are reams of Iraqi poetry, by the most respected poets in the country, devoted to the four Arab colours," Mr. Martucci said in an interview from his Massachusetts home. "It's probably extraordinarily clear to people that this government is not keeping with their deepest beliefs."



Heck, the BFEE even fecks up makin' a flag!

:eyes:

[dudeness]

1. a jackboot placed on the back of a neck..

might be an appropriate flag..

[skooooo]

6. How about a nice big face of "Big Brother?"

That would be appropriate.

[papau]

2. symmetry, symbolism? - perhaps a Cross of St. George Flag?

I've always liked that flag.

:-)

[saigon68]

3. THE VICEROY OF IRAQ NAM

THE FIRST VICEROY OF IRAQ-NAM

Viceroy Pontius Paul Bremer I




His hand picked puppet government in April in the Year of our Lord 2004, created a new flag for the 51st state of the AmeriKan States of North AmeriKa NA


PRESIDENT CHALABI HEIR TO THE THRONE



[flamingpie2500]

11. Same colors as the Israeli Flag.........

[JohnOneillsMemory]

27. yup. and they needed to hide the old colors: blood, oil, money.

formerly known as red, black, and green.

[Vladimir]

4. Au contraire

it has a hell of a lot of symbollism. Just perhaps not of the entirely pleasant kind...

[markses]

8. Correct: It does not LACK symbolism

It has all too much of that!

I think they're still trying to find one Iraqi* who actually likes the flag.

* For the purposes of this and future posts, the pack of thieves installed under the false heading 'Iraqi Governing Council' do not qualify as Iraqis.

[R Hickey]

5. The Governing Council needs to add " Under God" to the flag.

Or they could add "In God We Trust." That should please the Iraqi's.

To further enhance the flag's acceptance, I would like to suggest that the Governing Council add a glow-in-the-dark holographic watermark of Iraq's compassionate liberator; Dubya.

[bowens43]

7. The stupidity of the US government and it's lackeys in Iraq

never ceases to amaze me. They talk about sovereignty and then they pull this bonehead move. What do you think would happen here, if one morning we woke up and were told by the puppet government of an occupying force that the 'stars and stripes' was no longer the flag of our nation, that there is a new and better flag that better represents the current state of the nation? Would americans be pissed or would they say 'Oh OK, good idea!'?

[markses]

9. But you miss the important point

Americans are people, which is to say, human beings who think, feel, act and react.

The Iraqis are little more than well-trained apes, who need to handed their thoughts, feelings, actions and reactions lest they slip back into an animal state.

Thanks goodness for Paul Bremer!

</sarcasm>

[bowens43]

10. You're right

I completely forgot that the Iraqis are sub-human thugs who will be better off doing exactly as we, their superiors, tell them to do.....

[Richardo]

16. "Why couldn't it have been puce?...

Lavender over chartreuse?
Or possibly some exotic shade
A delicate orange, mauve or jade?
Instead of the choice that has been made,
Why couldn't it have been
Possibly cinnamon?"

Everybody wants to be an art director
Everybody wants to call the shots
Everybody wants to be a flag dissector
Changing all my stars to polka dots
Everybody thinks that they're the final word
On what is strictly out and what is in
Howdja like a flag that features fleur-de-lis
On ochre corrugated tin!


Betsy Ross and the Flag (Everybody Wants to be an Art Director) - (c) 1961 Stan Freburg "The History of the United States of America Volume 1"

[yardwork]

38. And imagine if our new flag had a hammer and a sickle on it!

I'm guessing that is how many Iraqis probably react to the Israeli blue on "their" new flag.

It's hard to tell if the Chimp's team has reached a new low in competence or if this is a deliberately provocative move.

[yellowcanine]

12. It looks like a frikken tea towel to me

And why change the colors - colors have great symbolism to a culture. Even the Confererate States of America didn't change the colors of their flags from the U.S. flag. This is what happens when you put culturally tone-deaf neocons in charge. One more straw on the back of that camel named Iraqi Democracy.

[The Stranger]

13. Accident? Stupidity?

I'll give them more credit than that. This was intentional, as is the rest of the dismantling of Iraqi culture, institutions, and the Iraqi people by PNAC and the Neonazicons.

[Magleetis]

14. That flag is butt ugly!

We should let the liberated people of Iraq choose their own flag. It is the least we could do after needlessly destroying their world.

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. Our Canuk CTV just disappointed me

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And I sent them a rather abrupt e-mail:

Re: story titled: New Iraq flag dumps Hussein's colours, slogan

Story url: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1083001906190_13/?hub=World

The colors in the Iraqi flag were red green black on white BEFORE SADDAM WAS BORN.

They are NOT his colors.

All Saddam did was add some text during the Gulf War, NOT the Iran Iraq war.

"The takbir in green was added to the 1963 flag during the Gulf War, 13 January1991."

source: http://www.1uptravel.com/flag/flags/iq.html

Check out history at http://www.1uptravel.com/flag/flags/iq-index.html

I am very disappointed in CTV for misrepresenting the history of the flag, and giving any credibility to the idea that removing the Iraqi colors had anything to do with removing the stigma of Saddam.

This kid of "error" is more expected from Fox or CNN

I trust you will correct this error

Sincerely
__________________

Was I too nasty?

:shrug:

[Gman]

17. Frankly, I'm suprised

they didn't put the words "Jesus Christ" on the flag along with the Israeli colors.

[leftofthedial]

18. I'm thinking a Star of David and a Cross

would look nice in some of that empty white space.

While they're at it.

[Gman]

25. That would be perfect!

one on each side of the crescent. If you're going to blaspheme, may as well go all the way.

[Barkley]

19. I thought they'd use golden arches instead of a cresecent?

[ConcernedCanuk]

20. Crescent? - oh, I thought it was a "C" - for Conservative?

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.:shrug:

[leftofthedial]

26. The "C" is for Chalabi.

methinks.

[Chicago Democrat]

39. Its for "Croney"

[PATRICK]

21. Consistent and constant error

is the hallmark of the fools leading us. They could make quicksand out of a concrete parking lot.

This is why we look so smart, because it is absolutely easy to predict how absolutist fools fueled by limitless arrogance and overweening power will act and fail no matter how lower pros on the food chain exert their intelligence and prowess.

This would be a great lesson if any of the American people were allowed to see this with equally open eyes. An opportunity is wasted to stop a lot of the nonsense and chicanery of wiser administrations with ugly motivations. Just "doing it better" so there is no mess is NOT a solution to the basic criminal behavior.

[Buns_of_Fire]

22. It also lacks the Halliburton logo

Purely an oversight, I'm sure.

[midnight armadillo]

23. Yet another symptom of pervasive US racism

The Iraqis in particular, and Arabs in general, are barely considered to be human by US leadership (Repukes AND Dems, incidently). This is just another symptom of it - forcing a flag with no meaning, or at least without the intended meaning, down the Iraqis throats. It was probably dreamed up by some psyops officer in hope it would eventually cause sympathy for Israel. But what do they care, after all "Arabs only respect force".

[ejcastellanos]

24. Rallying point

The thought that popped into my head when I heard this on the news was, "I guess the insurgency can now rally around the old flag."

Great job in giving them a symbol that all Iraqis can get behind now. I guess that will make it easier to identify all those "foreign" terrorists who are fighting our occupation.

I don't even think these guys read 'Imperialism for Dummies'

[progressivebydesign]

28. I thought it was wierd that they had a "contest" to design it...

Ummm.. the people who SHOULD be designing it are pretty much fighting for their lives and homes right now. How about a flag depicting the old Stars and Stripes, but with barbed wire around the edges, and blood red splatters all over it?? That would be suitable for a bloody occupation by a colonial force, I'd say.

THe flag they designed (must have took three minutes) is bottom heavy. The Iraqis are pissed it looks so much like the Israeli flag. Most Arab countries use black and red.. I liked their old flag from a design standpoint. Why do they need a new one? I don't understand.. That is a scary thought that another country could come into your country under the guise of removing your evil leader, and insteand blow your country to pieces, kill thousands of civilians, close your newspapers and tv, allowing only THEIR message to get out. THEN they give you a new fucking flag!! Does anyone else in the world see what is sooo wrong with this?? We didn't liberate them, we conquered them.

[Frances]

29. I think the fact that the new flag of Iraq is so similar to the flag

of Israel is deliberate. The Bush administration hopes to forcibly align Iraq with Israel, which is a country that has close ties to us. Then the U.S. will go after Syria and other mid-eastern countries. This will be known as the democratization of the region.

George Orwell would be impressed. I love how the U.S. calls what it is doing spreading democracy.

By the way, I wholeheartedly support real democracy.

[goclark]

30. Will the flag makers be outsourced?

Just wondering if any Iraqi people will get to make their own flags for their profit?

Will the flag company be owned by Chaney's cousin?

[Ganja Ninja]

31. So how much of our 83 billion went into this worthless exercise?

[ConcernedCanuk]

37. *ahem* - just an update - it's over $111 billion now

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Right, that's $111,000,000,000.00

Approx $400.00 for every man, woman and child in the US of A

That'd pay for alot of Healthcare as well as food/shelter for the homeless!


clik on the $$ signs in my sigline for a real-time cost per state/your city/person

[TrogL]

32. That's just plain wrong

It looks better upside down. I've never seen "piss yellow" on a flag before, especially referring to an ethnic group.

Is this deliberately provocative?

[daleo]

33. Oh, it's got plenty of symbolism

They couldn't have packed more symbolism into one flag if they had a symbolism compacter.

[Zero Gravitas]

34. Why can't the Iraqis choose their own flag.

This just goes to show how useful the puppet Governing Council is if they can spend their time designing bad flags while the entire country is falling apart.

Once the wonderful peaceful pro-western secular multicultural Iraqi Democracy is in place they can choose a new flag if they wish, in the meantime whats wrong with keeping the flag they already have. It just goes to show how inappropriate the priorities of the Bush Regime are.

[Az_lefty]

35. Doesn't look like much of a flag

[gulliver]

36. My paranoia.

The GC working on this flag issue is kind of pathetic. Now that Bush is scaling back the meaning of "sovereignty" in order to make the June 30th date, it makes me wonder. Did they let the GC put out this flag so that the new interim government can rescind the decision (and gain popularity by snubbing the GC)?

[rocktivity]

40. The amateurs don't think much of the new flag, either

:headbang:
rocknation

[T_i_B]

41. Iraqis infuriated by new flag that was designed in London

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=515997

For many Iraqis it was the final insult. Again and again they expressed outrage yesterday that Iraq's United States-appointed and unelected leaders had, overnight, abolished the old Iraqi flag, seen by most Iraqis as the symbol of their nation, and chosen a new one.

"What gives these people the right to throw away our flag, to change the symbol of Iraq?" asked Salah, a building contractor of normally moderate political opinions. "It makes me very angry because these people were appointed by the Americans. I will not regard the new flag as representing me but only traitors and collaborators."

The outburst of fury over the flag highlights the extraordinary ability of US leaders and the Iraqi Governing Council to alienate ordinary Iraqis, already angered by the bloody sieges of Fallujah and Karbala. And yesterday, in the hotbed of Iraqi rebellion, the flag was burnt in public in a demonstration of public anger.

[pinniped]

42. I bet they are confiscating "real" Iraqi flags as we speak.

n/t