NYPD Removes Gasoline, Generators From Downtown Protest Site

[kpete]

Source: Bloomberg

NYPD Removes Gasoline, Generators From Downtown Protest Site
October 28, 2011, 9:53 AM EDT

Oct. 28 (Bloomberg) -- New York police and fire personnel removed gasoline cans and generators this morning from Zuccotti Park, where Occupy Wall Street protesters have been camping out for almost six weeks, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said.

The equipment, which has helped the protesters power computers and mobile phones and keep warm as temperatures dipped to near freezing, are safety hazards and unlawful, Bloomberg said today on his weekly radio show on WOR. The material won’t be allowed back in to the park, he said. The occupants cooperated with law enforcement and the sweep produced no violence, he said.

Read more: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-28/nypd-removes-gasoline-generators-from-downtown-protest-site.html

[Katashi_itto]

1. Now if someone freezes to death it's all Bloomberg.

[24601]

74. And the individual has absolutely no personal responsibility. Nanny

Michael should have kept all the grown-ups safe? Bullshit. How about teaching that choices have consequences.

No doubt if a Gas can caught fire and burned up a few folks - some would also blame Bloomberg for that too.

[Renew Deal]

2. I'm not surprised.

I saw the generators while I was there. I was surprised they were allowed to have them.

[iscooterliberally]

3. I'm too far away to go there, but I don't understand.

I have worked at many festivals where we set up temporary stages, and there are trucks selling food and beer and whatnot. We always used portable generators. Some are small, some are built onto trailers and run on diesel or propane. I think this is BS. It's just another attempt to rile the protesters and get them to react with violence. I'm glad the protesters cooperated, but this is unfair treatment. If the generators are set up properly they are quite safe IMHO.

[brooklynite]

26. Because the festival organizers have obtained PERMITS...

...which in turn require that safety regulations (size of canisters, allowable fuelds, spacing from burnable objects) are met and maintained. The OWS protestors, in refusing to obtain permits, haven't shown that their generators and fuel supplies are safe. I'm surprised the Firs Dept didn't pull them out sooner.

[icymist]

32. Frankly, it's because the cold season is about to start.

This is the next phase. Will OWS leave beacuse of the cold weather? That's what they're betting on.

[unapatriciated]

51. I agree.

When we were on strike (California Grocery Strike 2003). We had a small covered fire pit that we used for the first month of winter with no problems. This was a small town in the Sierra Nevada's (Mammoth Lakes, CA) where 20 feet of snow in the winter is the norm. Many of our customers donated wood (including the mayor) and no one had a problem with it. Our store manager complained and we lost our only source of heat for the rest of the strike (Oct.-April). Our Store Manager did everything he could to try and force us to react and break our picket line.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

45. Yep...

... the devil is in the details. Also, those temporary use permits, as I believe you were implying, are just that, temporary, for convenience and perhaps seasonal occasions. No one is above or below the law nor ordinance.

But it does get things active, doesn't it?

[louis-t]

47. Uh, they have been refused permits, not the other way around.

Not in all cases, I'm sure.

[MADem]

66. Well, in some cases, they didn't apply. They need to bring a lawyer with them

IF they are having trouble obtaining permits.

In NYC, police prefer them, because they can better schedule overtime that way and block off streets so people don't get hurt.

[iscooterliberally]

58. DOH! Why didn't I think of that?

I never did draw the permits for these things though. I just showed up and made the audio work. It's a good point about the permits. I can see why the OWS doesn't want to pull permits, but wish there was a way to provide them some power. I guess campfires are out of the question too huh? ;)

[MADem]

65. Permits and inspections. That's the diff.

Also, this isn't a one or three day "festival"--they've been there for awhile.

I've set up a lot of festivals and public events, and you have to deal with all sorts of regulations, licensing, inspections, etc--everything from food safety to adequacy of the construction of your stage and your power supply for your lighting, sound system, etc. How many porta-potties for your anticipated audience, how many security personnel you need, and so forth.

They can get pretty pissy too if they don't like how you've done it. It's why those professional guys who rent stages do so well--they know all the rules and regs, and how to placate the officials.

[jtuck004]

46. Weren't they outside, uncovered? n/t

[iamthebandfanman]

4. guess its time to go green? n/t

[MADem]

67. Have all the day trippers bring a fully charged Marine battery with them? nt

[justiceischeap]

5. Are there solar generators?

If so, they need to get some.

[antigone382]

8. There was when I was there (see my post below)

I'm thinking that would be considered less of a hazard, though I guess the electricity aspect of it could still do harm.

[antigone382]

6. When I was there, there was a mobile solar generator, complements of Green Peace..

Anyone know if that's still there, and if there are hopes of getting more? That wouldn't be as much of a safety hazard, it would seem.

[pasto76]

7. thats going to be hard to argue. Fire Marshal has tons of authority

For groups this big, they want you to have a fire safety plan on file and stuff like that. Course once you start down that path, it's hard to argue that OWS expression is based on the constitution, and supercedes local ordinance.

[Bennyboy]

9. is ther ea gas stationa cross the street> Cars on the road right next to the park?

Bullshit. make sure that things are stored properly and you got no problem. One gasoline engine is another gasoline engine. The parks departments uses gas and engines don't they?

[Beacool]

42. No, it's not much of a park.

It's only one small square block without any grass. There are some trees and granite benches. That's about it.

;)

[Bennyboy]

44. Gasoline powered leaf blower?

Sure there is gas in a can in the truck that maint. crew uses? I know they use a leaf blower.

[Beacool]

61. That's a possibility.

:-)

[PoliticAverse]

57. Right. For those that haven't seen Zuccotti (aka Liberty) park...

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.709415,-74.011852&spn=0.001923,0.003248&t=m&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=40.709415,-74.011852&panoid=OlAvpBXv4jnmuM0wJd2G3Q&cbp=12,154.68,,0,4.68

[Beacool]

60. Yep, that's the one.

It's across the WTC, diagonally across where the South Tower stood. I used to walk by it at least twice a day going back and forth to work. I commuted from NJ via the PATH train. BTW, no one knew that that itsy bitsy park had a name. LOL!!!

:D

[sulphurdunn]

10. There's an old military maxim

that goes something like this: Good generals think about logistics before tactics. The demonstrators have one hell of a logistical problem with winter coming, and the cities using health and safety ordinances to exacerbate the problem.

[savannah43]

15. Worst Case Scenario: Time for a winter break.

Back in the spring, even more intent on pursuing this. There are other ways to keep this going without physically standing outdoors waiting to be assaulted by cops who are letting their inner bullies run free. We have more smarts and imagination on our side. They are controlled by their greed and fear of exposure. We are flexible. They are not.

[snagglepuss]

24. Exactly.

[quakerboy]

28. Nope

I am not down with being broken. If this goes away quietly, it goes away. I being the skeptic that I am, feel that if they shut down for any reason, that's it for this movement.

[MADem]

68. They have raised a lot of money. Rent a warehouse and make it into a warming station.

Find church storefronts and "rent" from the minister--people can "attend services" in their sleeping bags on the floor. Who's going to roust a church, so long as people are behaving?

I think a break would probably put an end to the whole thing. If it is to keep going, it needs to keep going--it just needs to take a different direction.

Maybe the "camping out" thing has run its course.

[SlimJimmy]

40. Quote from Tom Clancy "Red Storm Rising"

The tactics...no, amateurs discuss tactics,.... Professional soldiers study logistics.

[iscooterliberally]

59. I wonder if they could move to a subway?

I haven't been to Manhattan in years, but I do remember the subways staying much warmer. I'm not sure how the logistics of that would work out though.

[caseymoz]

11. Unless something is done, then, this might be the end of the protest.

Or it might have to enter a stage where protesters switch off in the way unions do with pickets.

Question: why do cities have ordinances against things necessary to life? Like no sitting, no public lavatories? Like things that could easily be used simply to harass the homeless and people just down on their luck, and frequently are.

[RoccoR5955]

14. Believe me, it will not be. n/t

[The Wielding Truth]

25. They have resolve. I do not see an end until things change drastically.

[caseymoz]

35. And I think you're right, too.

But they'll have to have resolve, because it's going to get very cold outside this winter.

[valerief]

12. PIGS! PIGS! 1% PIGS! NT

[RoccoR5955]

13. I wonder if they could have wind power generators

There certainly is a lot of wind there. Windbag cops, windbag bankers, and one hell of a windbag mayor. When Bloomie is done, they should hire him to supply the city with wind power. I bet he could power at least Staten Island, single handedly!

[savannah43]

16. Good one.

[MaggieTheVoter]

69. OccupyPittsburgh has a human-on-bike powered generator. nt

[MADem]

70. Ha ha ha--clever! nt

[unionworks]

17. the real worst case scenario

They don't want the computers etc up and runnning because they are preparing a massive assault.

[drm604]

19. You may be onto something.

All they have to do is wait a few days for everybody's phones etc. to run out of power.

The answer to that is to have people's friends take their stuff home for an hour to charge.

[brooklynite]

27. Is that the best conspiracy theory you can come up with?

The police are going to launch a secret plot in the middle of one the most densely populated spaces in NYC with media presence and people with battery powered cell phones and laptops?

[dixiegrrrrl]

48. In Oakland, police ordered MSM to leave area, arrested people with video cameras

before they assaulted the protesters at night.
They knew they did not want any news/film, but they could not stop all filming.

[brooklynite]

53. And the same media recorded and broadcast video of the assault...

...live from the ground, as opposed to the blurry crowd shots from 1,000 feet up.

[justiceischeap]

36. I'm guessing it has more to do with the winter storm brewing for this weekend

if they take away their means of heat, they're probably guessing that the demonstrators will leave.

[MADem]

71. I think Mother Nature is planning one, and soon....

http://www.weather.com/weather/today//USNY0981:1

[Cal Carpenter]

18. There will be bike generators soon

The GA approved a proposal for bike generators - I don't know what number they decided on (5 or 10) that people ride, powering batteries for electronics etc.

It probably won't work for any sort of heaters, but it will keep the electronics (computers, cell phone chargers, etc) running and air mattresses inflated in the meantime.

I hope the cops can't remove those too.

[drm604]

21. Maybe people can donate cellphone batteries.

Then you could swap your batteries out for batteries charged elsewhere.

[quakerboy]

29. That makes its own heat

at least for the people peddling.

[TBMASE]

54. Just like on Giligan's island

their radio NEVER went dead

[MikeDuffy]

20. Soon may be able to get safe 120/240v AC power from EVs

Nissan has said they are working on a device that will allow their LEAF cars to provide emergency power for a residence (not only because it is a good idea but because parts of Japan are having occasional power blackouts).

Perhaps this would allow access to a (portable!) large rechargeable battery pack (~24 kWh) for this kind of application that authorities could not object to on safety grounds.

[yawnmaster]

22. I don't know how well the generator location was planned, but especially with the ...

cold weather coming up, I would hate to see a carbon monoxide death occur.

[truthisfreedom]

23. Someone should donate hundreds of these:

http://www.paulcbuff.com/vm120.php

130 watt hours of pure sine wave power. I can recharge my iPhone 20 times with this unit. It powers a 60W light bulb for half an hour. It's nothing like a generator, but it does let you carry around AC power for recharging stuff like laptops and cell phones and cameras in your backpack, and it will last all day for stuff like that. There's spare battery packs too. With a spare battery pack, it's around $300 including the charger. You charge it at home and take it anywhere. I use one in my car because I am not allowed to connect an inverter to my 12VDC outlet in the car.

[PatrynXX]

30. safety is a bs term. means death , so always fuck safety

where's those igloo's?? Keith said someone who makes ice blogs was offering contruction of igloo's. time to learn how to start a fire using a stick? or are lighters allowed.

[DeSwiss]

31. ''The equipment are deemed safety hazards and unlawful....''

While the theft of the trillions of dollars from US citizens that the protesters are drawing attention to, is perfectly safe and legal.

- Now how fucked-up is that?

K&R












http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hklqkwyISuk">''All tyranny needs to gain a foothold, is for people of good conscience to remain silent.'' ~ Thomas Jefferson.

[plumbob]

34. Yep. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay fucked up.

Meanwhile, in other safety news, BP is drilling in the gulf again.

[Lorien]

62. And all of those firearms that the teabaggers brought to their rallies weren't a

"safety hazard"? The pollution that the Koch brother pump into our air and water isn't a "safety hazard"? Sheesh!

[willbee]

33. Welding trucks

Perhaps the Occupy folks can get a welder or two to provide a truck. There are also other portable style generators that fit safety codes that could be brought in and power the whole place. There must be some benevolent self employed contractor who'd be willing to help with this.

[BEZERKO]

37. Sounds like Bloomberg is taking a page from

Kasim Reed's playbook. He used the same reasoning to remove them from Occupy Atlanta's possession, talking about them as if they were bombs, as part of his rationale for ending the protest.

[Ellipsis]

38. Sunvalleytek USB Portable Solar Panel Battery Charger for GPS PDA iPhone iPod Cell Phone $25

Plenty out there for under $10

[RoccoR5955]

39. They could get all the heat they need, and then some

if they could harness Bloomberg's vast reserves of hot air. I can think of a few RepubliCONs who could heat the State of Vermont, in the middle of winter with their hot air. Perhaps they'll volunteer.

[earcandle]

41. OccupySf has a bicycle gerenating energy. Have you taken your turn on it? Me neither. Maybe now!

[Pharaoh]

43. Bicycle generators!!! n/t

[sandyj999]

49. This was expected

Now that a possible snowstorm is coming now these things are dangerous.

[TBF]

50. Isn't theft a crime? nt

[krispos42]

52. Well, there's a simple solution to that problem

Somebody had to idle their car in front of the park with a hefty power inverter hooked up right to the battery terminals. Preferably somebody with an upgraded alternator.


Or, in fact, park a pickup truck with a few generators in the bed next to the park and run the generators IN the bed. Run some extension cords, and you're good to go.


"Sorry, officer, my truck is legally parked and the generators are NOT in park. Go screw yourself."

[MADem]

72. Are they allowing people to park alongside the park with all those people in there?

Also, don't they tell everyone to GTF off the streets for the snowplows? The generators would have to leave when most needed.

[krispos42]

73. I'm not sure if the curb directly adjacent to the park is for parking.

I do know (I stopped by a couple of weeks ago) that there is parking very close by, like across the street.

This was directly across the street. And of course, there was parking on another side of the park, across the street, that the NYPD was using as a parking lot.





But directly adjacent to the park? I can't say for sure.


However, they could also relay car batteries and laptop batteries to and fro between the park and the idling vehicles. The power inverter could be in the park with a bunch of stuff plugged into it, and and freshly-charged car batteries brought to it periodically.

:shrug:

We're facing the hard reasons people still use gasoline-powered internal-combustion engines... the concentration of power is vastly greater than wind or solar, as well as far more convenient.

What Occupy San Fran is doing with the human-powered bicycles sounds great... I know there are a lot of physically-fit people out there that want to help, especially native New Yorkers that walk or ride everyplace anyway, so that seems like an excellent idea to power the big stuff like the flatscreen TVs and the laptops. Solar chargers for cel phones and iPods would be great.

I just don't know how they'll provide heat for the occupiers. A portable heater consumes 1500 watts,and I doubt a bicycle generator could put out more than 100 watts sustained.

Coleman, for example, makes catalytic heaters that use propane. The propane passes through a mesh of catalytic material that converts it to exhaust and heat, but there's no open flame, so presumebly the NYPD or the FDNY wouldn't be able to bust them for some violation.

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/detail.asp?CategoryID=3000&product_id=2000004317

:shrug:

[Dont call me Shirley]

55. There's a guy in Rio Rancho, NM who invented and is selling solar generators.

Sorry don't know his name. These generators would be perfect for the Occupy camps. No "scary" gasoline around.

[Uncle Joe]

56. Kicked and recommended for the intrepid determination of the occupiers.

I hope this comes back to bite Bloomberg in the ass.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[Downwinder]

63. Going to ban all gasoline powered vehicles from NY streets?

Gasoline is a fire hazard.

[workinclasszero]

64. So Bloombergs plan is to freeze them out

F'in asshole.

Maybe OWS will have to have winter quarters somewhere in the city. They can be planning a massive resistance to the 1% starting in the spring of 2012 and rotate people in and out of the park so no one freezes.

Maybe some of the other occupied cities in the south and west coast can step it up in the wintertime. Occupy Oakland has been bloodied. They know how to lead and OWS could send some of its people out there to Oakland and Portland etc, and south to Orlando and Atlanta to brainstorm winter actions and get ready for 2012.

Just a thought...

[arikara]

75. Victoria BC

is supplying electicity for our occupy people.